• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:38
CET 09:38
KST 17:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns5[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
SC2 AI Tournament 2026 WardiTV Winter Cup OSC Season 13 World Championship uThermal 2v2 Circuit WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft Data analysis on 70 million replays Empty tournaments section on Liquipedia A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
GOAT of Goats list
BisuDagger
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1654 users

TL Chess Match 4 - Page 75

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 73 74 75 76 77 140 Next
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
September 22 2011 17:46 GMT
#1481
On September 23 2011 01:30 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2011 00:45 FishForThought wrote:
Why are you people so keen in getting that pawn advantage right away while putting the formation and your limited number of attacking pieces at risk?

We should get our king out of the check lock first so we can start using our knights.

our move list should be something like:
1. a3
2. Nxe4 (assuming he moves his bishop instead of trading).
3. QxC6+ (assuming he takes our knight with his d5 pawn)
4. QxE4

There you effectively gained 2 pawn advantage while controlling the center board. Hold off getting the pawn in the next move.
a3's been refuted several times; it gives Black a pawn.

If you mean Rxb2 then it does not directly give black a pawn as you can Qxc6+ and get the pawn back. If there are losses they are later on not because of Rxb2.
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-22 17:54:15
September 22 2011 17:54 GMT
#1482
On September 23 2011 02:46 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2011 01:30 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 00:45 FishForThought wrote:
Why are you people so keen in getting that pawn advantage right away while putting the formation and your limited number of attacking pieces at risk?

We should get our king out of the check lock first so we can start using our knights.

our move list should be something like:
1. a3
2. Nxe4 (assuming he moves his bishop instead of trading).
3. QxC6+ (assuming he takes our knight with his d5 pawn)
4. QxE4

There you effectively gained 2 pawn advantage while controlling the center board. Hold off getting the pawn in the next move.
a3's been refuted several times; it gives Black a pawn.

If you mean Rxb2 then it does not directly give black a pawn as you can Qxc6+ and get the pawn back. If there are losses they are later on not because of Rxb2.
Fair enough; I spoke too quickly. It doesn't actually lose a pawn.+ Show Spoiler +
It still gives Black a positional advantage imo, though.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
September 22 2011 17:57 GMT
#1483
On September 23 2011 02:01 TehForce wrote:
I think a3 is bad because
+ Show Spoiler +

11. a3 Nxd2
(-> Now we have to immidiatly capture the knight back because of the double-check option ..Nxf3+ which would be a disaster for us)

12. Bxd2 Bxd2+
+ Show Spoiler +

Capturing the Bishop is even worse:
12. axb4 Nxf3+
13. gxf3
Now we have 2 double pawns and black can still save his pawn
13. .. Bd7
14. Qxa7
is also no option anymore because we would lose a rook with 14. ..Ra8

13. Nxd2
Now black can defend his pawn and we are still not castled yet


Vote for Qxc6+

+ Show Spoiler +
The line I am thinking is not 11.a3 Nxd2 12.Bxd2, but 11.a3 N(B)xd2 12.Nxd2 N(B)xd2 13.Bxd2 and after that black can Rxb2 or defend his pawn. Yes we have equal pawns and we did not castled yet, but if he defends his pawn we can castle if need be and if not we can take it for equal pawns. I know that 11.Qxc6+ gains (at least in short term) a pawn, I just do not like where it leads after that, that is why I am trying to explore a3.
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
September 22 2011 17:58 GMT
#1484
--- Nuked ---
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
September 22 2011 18:13 GMT
#1485
On September 23 2011 02:54 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2011 02:46 mcc wrote:
On September 23 2011 01:30 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 00:45 FishForThought wrote:
Why are you people so keen in getting that pawn advantage right away while putting the formation and your limited number of attacking pieces at risk?

We should get our king out of the check lock first so we can start using our knights.

our move list should be something like:
1. a3
2. Nxe4 (assuming he moves his bishop instead of trading).
3. QxC6+ (assuming he takes our knight with his d5 pawn)
4. QxE4

There you effectively gained 2 pawn advantage while controlling the center board. Hold off getting the pawn in the next move.
a3's been refuted several times; it gives Black a pawn.

If you mean Rxb2 then it does not directly give black a pawn as you can Qxc6+ and get the pawn back. If there are losses they are later on not because of Rxb2.
Fair enough; I spoke too quickly. It doesn't actually lose a pawn.+ Show Spoiler +
It still gives Black a positional advantage imo, though.

+ Show Spoiler +
That is what I am not so sure about.
After Rxb2 we can Qxc6+, Qd7 Qc3(1) he has to go away with the rook and we can castle and are in reasonably good position I feel. After Qxc6+ Bd7 it is more open but Qxd5 seems possible although I did not check all his possibilities in that scenario and some seem threatening, but ut still seems ok.
If instead of Rxb2 he plays something to save one of his pawns there are many possibilities, but the position seems ok for us on the first glance.
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
September 22 2011 19:35 GMT
#1486
On September 23 2011 03:13 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2011 02:54 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 02:46 mcc wrote:
On September 23 2011 01:30 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 00:45 FishForThought wrote:
Why are you people so keen in getting that pawn advantage right away while putting the formation and your limited number of attacking pieces at risk?

We should get our king out of the check lock first so we can start using our knights.

our move list should be something like:
1. a3
2. Nxe4 (assuming he moves his bishop instead of trading).
3. QxC6+ (assuming he takes our knight with his d5 pawn)
4. QxE4

There you effectively gained 2 pawn advantage while controlling the center board. Hold off getting the pawn in the next move.
a3's been refuted several times; it gives Black a pawn.

If you mean Rxb2 then it does not directly give black a pawn as you can Qxc6+ and get the pawn back. If there are losses they are later on not because of Rxb2.
Fair enough; I spoke too quickly. It doesn't actually lose a pawn.+ Show Spoiler +
It still gives Black a positional advantage imo, though.

+ Show Spoiler +
That is what I am not so sure about.
After Rxb2 we can Qxc6+, Qd7 Qc3(1) he has to go away with the rook and we can castle.
+ Show Spoiler +
Rxb2 Qxc6+ Qd7 Qc3 Qb5

'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
September 22 2011 20:22 GMT
#1487
On September 23 2011 04:35 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2011 03:13 mcc wrote:
On September 23 2011 02:54 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 02:46 mcc wrote:
On September 23 2011 01:30 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 00:45 FishForThought wrote:
Why are you people so keen in getting that pawn advantage right away while putting the formation and your limited number of attacking pieces at risk?

We should get our king out of the check lock first so we can start using our knights.

our move list should be something like:
1. a3
2. Nxe4 (assuming he moves his bishop instead of trading).
3. QxC6+ (assuming he takes our knight with his d5 pawn)
4. QxE4

There you effectively gained 2 pawn advantage while controlling the center board. Hold off getting the pawn in the next move.
a3's been refuted several times; it gives Black a pawn.

If you mean Rxb2 then it does not directly give black a pawn as you can Qxc6+ and get the pawn back. If there are losses they are later on not because of Rxb2.
Fair enough; I spoke too quickly. It doesn't actually lose a pawn.+ Show Spoiler +
It still gives Black a positional advantage imo, though.

+ Show Spoiler +
That is what I am not so sure about.
After Rxb2 we can Qxc6+, Qd7 Qc3(1) he has to go away with the rook and we can castle.
+ Show Spoiler +
Rxb2 Qxc6+ Qd7 Qc3 Qb5


+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, the rook stays I would see it like Qc3 Qb5 a4
a) Qb6-8 0-0
b) Qb3 Qc6+ and it becomes interesting ?
MrStorkie
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom697 Posts
September 22 2011 21:20 GMT
#1488
o-o IMO
1a2a3a4z5z6d7d8d9p0p
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
September 22 2011 21:25 GMT
#1489
On September 23 2011 05:22 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2011 04:35 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 03:13 mcc wrote:
On September 23 2011 02:54 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 02:46 mcc wrote:
On September 23 2011 01:30 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 00:45 FishForThought wrote:
Why are you people so keen in getting that pawn advantage right away while putting the formation and your limited number of attacking pieces at risk?

We should get our king out of the check lock first so we can start using our knights.

our move list should be something like:
1. a3
2. Nxe4 (assuming he moves his bishop instead of trading).
3. QxC6+ (assuming he takes our knight with his d5 pawn)
4. QxE4

There you effectively gained 2 pawn advantage while controlling the center board. Hold off getting the pawn in the next move.
a3's been refuted several times; it gives Black a pawn.

If you mean Rxb2 then it does not directly give black a pawn as you can Qxc6+ and get the pawn back. If there are losses they are later on not because of Rxb2.
Fair enough; I spoke too quickly. It doesn't actually lose a pawn.+ Show Spoiler +
It still gives Black a positional advantage imo, though.

+ Show Spoiler +
That is what I am not so sure about.
After Rxb2 we can Qxc6+, Qd7 Qc3(1) he has to go away with the rook and we can castle.
+ Show Spoiler +
Rxb2 Qxc6+ Qd7 Qc3 Qb5


+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, the rook stays I would see it like Qc3 Qb5 a4
a) Qb6-8 0-0
b) Qb3 Qc6+ and it becomes interesting ?
OK, I have to admit I don't have much here. Looks fairly even.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
FishForThought
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada88 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-23 01:22:01
September 23 2011 01:08 GMT
#1490
On September 23 2011 06:25 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2011 05:22 mcc wrote:
On September 23 2011 04:35 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 03:13 mcc wrote:
On September 23 2011 02:54 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 02:46 mcc wrote:
On September 23 2011 01:30 qrs wrote:
On September 23 2011 00:45 FishForThought wrote:
Why are you people so keen in getting that pawn advantage right away while putting the formation and your limited number of attacking pieces at risk?

We should get our king out of the check lock first so we can start using our knights.

our move list should be something like:
1. a3
2. Nxe4 (assuming he moves his bishop instead of trading).
3. QxC6+ (assuming he takes our knight with his d5 pawn)
4. QxE4

There you effectively gained 2 pawn advantage while controlling the center board. Hold off getting the pawn in the next move.
a3's been refuted several times; it gives Black a pawn.

If you mean Rxb2 then it does not directly give black a pawn as you can Qxc6+ and get the pawn back. If there are losses they are later on not because of Rxb2.
Fair enough; I spoke too quickly. It doesn't actually lose a pawn.+ Show Spoiler +
It still gives Black a positional advantage imo, though.

+ Show Spoiler +
That is what I am not so sure about.
After Rxb2 we can Qxc6+, Qd7 Qc3(1) he has to go away with the rook and we can castle.
+ Show Spoiler +
Rxb2 Qxc6+ Qd7 Qc3 Qb5


+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, the rook stays I would see it like Qc3 Qb5 a4
a) Qb6-8 0-0
b) Qb3 Qc6+ and it becomes interesting ?
OK, I have to admit I don't have much here. Looks fairly even.



Rxb2, Qxc6, Qd7, Qc5 (to prevent Castling on the black side), Ba6 (to prevent us from castling), Bc3 (threaten rook), Rb5 (to threaten our queen), Qxa7 (threaten his back row and his bishop).. thats how i see it would turn out.

edit: actually he'll probably go:

Rxb2, Qxc6, Qd7, Qc5 (to prevent Castling on the black side), Ba6 (to prevent us from castling), Bc3 (threaten rook), Re6+, MCC's moves might be better.
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
September 23 2011 04:02 GMT
#1491
Deadline is over guys.

Give me some time to update everything.
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
September 23 2011 04:21 GMT
#1492
nitdkim wrote:
omg, thread quality is 10/10. those graphs in OP so good!


Thank you.
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-23 04:26:04
September 23 2011 04:24 GMT
#1493
Everything is updated. I will give you guys one or two days of rest or else qrs will burn out and we don't want that, do we?

I planned to wait a little anyway.

Cheers.

Hmmm... Sometimes I really want to make some game-related comments, but I really shouldn't.

Well maybe when all is said and done.

But I'm really proud of all the work you've been doing. I'm sure you've found many-many good and tricky lines during your evals.
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
September 23 2011 13:27 GMT
#1494
On September 23 2011 13:24 Ng5 wrote:
Everything is updated. I will give you guys one or two days of rest or else qrs will burn out and we don't want that, do we?
Ha, it's ok. I'll take it easy. Next move or two is pretty forced anyway.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
keyStorm
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada316 Posts
September 24 2011 05:13 GMT
#1495
awwwww whats this move D:

mastergriggy
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1312 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-24 06:27:27
September 24 2011 05:47 GMT
#1496
I really don't like our move Oh well haha not that I'm whining or anything. I'm gonna assume that he'll play Qd7, and start analyzing from there.

Edit: Some analysis

11... Qd7 and then:

+ Show Spoiler +
12. Qxd7 Bxd7 (I guess black can play Kxd7 which might be better since there isn't really a need to castle anymore), then if

13. a3 Bxd2 14. Nxd2 Nxd2 15. Kxd2 I think we can hold our pawn and it isn't as bad for our Bishop as it looks (16. Kc3/c2). The only issue here is that we have to be very careful how we trade as opposite colored Bishop's tend to negate extra pawns .

13. 0-0 is interesting as it forces black's knight to react or give himself a pawn that's incredibly weak. It does have a line that returns the pawn but it doesn't look the best for black: 13...Nxd2 14. Nxd2 Bxd2 15. Bxd2 then

15...Rxb2 16. Rab1 Rxb1 (not Rxd2? 17. Rb8+) 17. Rxb1 looks good for white.

15...0-0 16. b3 Rb5 (to break center pawn) 17. Rac1 Rc8 18. b4 looks good for white.

15...Bb5 16. Rfc1 c6 (if he plays a passive move like Rc8, move f pawn and then king toward center) 17. Bb4 Bc4 18. Ba3 looks good for white (white will get tempo back since black needs to use a turn to move the king)

There is also Ke7 which looks decent for black, but he is a pawn down and I white will have an advantage, (a bit too tired to analysis it).

12. Qc2 (white's only other non losing move) Ba6 13. oh god this looks bad for white I'm gonna just go with Qxd7 for our next move.
Write your own song!
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
September 25 2011 22:51 GMT
#1497
Okay I better do this now, because later I'll start working and maybe go out for a while and completely and utterly forget about chess.

So the move is.

11... Qd7


The official 12th round started right here.

A little more than three days.

Cheers!
EvilNalu
Profile Joined May 2010
United States91 Posts
September 25 2011 23:46 GMT
#1498
12. Qxd7+

+ Show Spoiler +
All the lines relevant to this move have been discussed and I am convinced we want to avoid 12. Qc2 Ba6. We should spend the time for this move trying to figure out our 13th move after the likely 12...Bxd7, keeping in mind the fact that black might conceivably play 12...Kxd7.
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 25 2011 23:50 GMT
#1499
12. Qc2
+ Show Spoiler +
I have analyzed this move, and I see nothing wrong with it.
We keep all our pieces, go a pawn up, and are in a good position to still be able to castle on our king's side. What's not to love?
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
EvilNalu
Profile Joined May 2010
United States91 Posts
September 25 2011 23:56 GMT
#1500
On September 26 2011 08:50 Bill Murray wrote:
12. Qc2
+ Show Spoiler +
I have analyzed this move, and I see nothing wrong with it.
We keep all our pieces, go a pawn up, and are in a good position to still be able to castle on our king's side. What's not to love?


+ Show Spoiler +
After 12...Ba6 we will never castle kingside. Now maybe you think we will still be OK but don't say we can castle kingside.

And, if you think we will be OK without kingside castling, please point out how you plan to respond to black's threats of Qb5 and Qg4 as discussed by jd/qrs above.
Prev 1 73 74 75 76 77 140 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SOOP
04:00
SOOP Invitational #1
Liquipedia
PiGosaur Cup
01:00
#63
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft532
SortOf 112
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1554
Larva 467
Pusan 243
Hyuk 148
sorry 133
Shuttle 79
Leta 78
NotJumperer 71
ZergMaN 38
Bale 34
[ Show more ]
yabsab 29
zelot 19
Sharp 14
Sacsri 11
Dota 2
XaKoH 900
League of Legends
C9.Mang0605
JimRising 560
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox343
Other Games
summit1g8765
Mew2King42
KnowMe9
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick30378
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 22m
TBD vs MindelVK
Cham vs sebesdes
Shameless vs Jumy
Nicoract vs Krystianer
OSC
1d 5h
SOOP
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
IPSL
4 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-05
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.