EPTUkraine Crisis - Page 65
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On February 23 2014 08:23 BuddhaMonk wrote: Sorry but your chronology is just simplistic and inaccurate. A radical element of the protestors were being violent, including attacking and killing police officers long before these latest incidents. I can give you a better timeline. There were peaceful protests. They were dispersed with inadequate violence. The society gets outraged, around 1 million people get out in the streets. Some of the clashes with police result in violence. Another dispersal attempt, Euromaidan holds. Yanukovich decides to wait it out. Activists are being beaten, tortured, killed and put to prison everywhere besides Maidan. Maidan stands for two months and counting. "Draconic" laws against democratic freedoms are passed in the Parliament. Yanukovich signs those. After another "Viche" meeting and another failure by the opposition to do something, Maidan goes to the Parliament but is stopped by police. Violence insues, started by radical Euromaidan activists. After a few days of constant violence and numerous injuries on both sides police start shooting people. Western and Central Ukraine rebel. Regional State Administrations are being captured. Pro-Yanukovich MPs are holding negotiations with the opposition. Yanukovich needs to act or he would have lost the Parliament to the opposition. The "draconic" laws get reversed, Azarov fired, but his Cabinet of Ministers stays. Amnesty for the protesters is granted in return for the administrative buildings. More time passes and Yanukovich still does nothing to satisfy the initial demands of Euromaidan. Radical Euromaidan activists go to the Parliament. Violence breaks out again. Activists retreat to Maidan. Yanukovich is pressed by Putin to put an end to Euromaidan to receive the next loan which he needs desperately to keep the economy from defaulting. He also smells weakness after the recent small victory and orders his troops forward. An ultimatum is set for the Euromaidan to clear the place out or else... Police attacks. Casualties on both sides from gunfire, but Maidan holds. Yanukovich has proofs that activists are in possession of firearms. Regions of Ukraine rebel again. This time not just RSAs are being captured, but also SBU, MVD headquarters and prosecutor's offices. Almost all of Western Ukraine goes down in just a few hours. Antiterrorist actions are introduced. Snipers start shooting activists by dozens, mostly going for their heads. Klichko goes for the negotiations with Yanukovich. Yanukovich would not speak of anything besides Euromaidan clearance. The Parliament barely holds a meeting (around 240 members of 450) and orders the governmental troops to go home (only troops from Eastern and Southern regions were used in active measures against the protesters), restricts the use of gun-fire against civil protests, and puts an end to the antiterroristic campaign. Negotiations with Yanukovich and oppostions start with the help of EU MFAs (Poland, France, Germany) and some Russians. Yanukovich threatens to introduce the martial law and drown the revolution in blood. EU MFAs pressure the opposition into signing the deal. Euromaidan does not accept the deal, Yanukovich has to go. SBU, MVD, army one by one claim they support the people of Ukraine and would not use force against them. The Parliament feels pressure to resolve the conflict by either giving up to Yanukovich or Euromaidan, or something terrible might happen. They choose the side of Euromaidan and start adopting the laws beyond the scope of the deal. Yanukovich, already out of Kyiv, states he would not sign those laws. Claims there is coup d'etat going on. The Parliament impeaches Yanukovich. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 23 2014 13:02 Shady Sands wrote: Judging by the vitriol in this thread between Zeo and Cheerio, I don't have high hopes that Ukraine will remain under one government for long, though I do think both governments will claim to represent all of Ukraine. Zeo is a Serb living in Serbia... | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On February 23 2014 12:29 Sub40APM wrote: No, we don't. It's basically Lenin everywhere in central streets and squares.Ya and for 23 years of independence it didnt bother anyone. All that taking down statutes now does is feed into anti-Ukrainian propaganda, it costs valuable political capital and does nothing. And you have plenty of statutes of various pre-Russian kings or attamans around Ukraine. All those people were exploiters of peasants, yet people accept that its part of Ukrainian history. So is being part of Russian Empire and then Communism. Just like in Zakarpatia where I am from there is a statute of Hungarians, but you dont see anyone tearming them down because they symbols of Hungarian imperialism. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On February 23 2014 12:35 Greem wrote: Your fanatism is unbelievable. You just pick a date and start your hatred from there, or how does your mind work ? Its like going back in time to Kievan Rus or something to looking for reasons and ideas. Sadly i don't know much history, but this is what i found happened around 100 years, ago as you pointed Lenin took your independence, like its any relevant , it has no meaning whatsoever, and do not help or damage anything at all, its past, it quielty resides back there. So anyway here is a piece, maybe in some other reality a guy with nick Cheerio blames Polish,or Germans for taking his independence. Exactly, you don't + Show Spoiler + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_War_of_Independence Ukrainian language section has the fullest article And I would have blamed Polish and Germans too if their leaders who were behind the attacks on Ukraine had monuments all over Ukraine. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 23 2014 14:07 Cheerio wrote: No, we don't. It's basically Lenin everywhere in central streets and squares. so? you have antisemite murderer on a bunch of your hrivna. its history, the only thing that taking these statutes does is let people who are too lazy to fight for real reforms feel like they gave Russia the middle finger. I | ||
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Greem
730 Posts
On February 23 2014 14:18 Cheerio wrote: Exactly, you don't + Show Spoiler + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_War_of_Independence Ukrainian language section has the fullest article And I would have blamed Polish and Germans too if their leaders who were behind the attacks on Ukraine had monuments all over Ukraine. You just proved my point, keep blaming the past and misty people from it. Let the past fuel your fury towards certain cultures/people , sarcasm. | ||
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Greem
730 Posts
![[image loading]](http://s5.pikabu.ru/post_img/2014/02/23/4/1393126096_710815823.jpg) Its Lvov, or Lviv, and they bringing down a statue of soviet soldier. I guess they taking the hatred to another level. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6336 Posts
On February 23 2014 16:06 DeepElemBlues wrote: These statues are symbols of Russia to the protesters they don't exactly like Russia. These are symbols of the struggle of all Soviet peoples against fascism, that is a statue of an Ukrainian anti-fascist soldier that isn't welcome anymore. There are at least 5 statues of Lenin in America, I don't see riot groups forming to take them down. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6336 Posts
On February 23 2014 12:25 xDaunt wrote: No one should be shedding tears for Zeo. He has been a nonstop propagandist in this thread, adopting positions that are patently absurd. Hell, he doesn't even bother supporting his ridiculous assertions of fact with anything resembling a legitimate source. I find his posts to be amusing, but I frankly am surprised that he is being allowed to post stuff like he has. 'People that have opinions that are different from my own should not be alowed to post, how anyone can be alowed to disrupt the perfect circle of circlejerk defies reason'. Please learn to be more tolarant of other people. I read everything everyone has to say in this thread and don't resort to name calling or rant about photoshops in every post. I care deeply about the safety of the people living in eastern Ukraine. That is all. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On February 23 2014 16:35 zeo wrote: These are symbols of the struggle of all Soviet peoples against fascism, that is a statue of an Ukrainian anti-fascist soldier that isn't welcome anymore. There are at least 5 statues of Lenin in America, I don't see riot groups forming to take them down. That's what they meant in 1972, it isn't what they mean now. No one is particularly interested in tearing down Lenin statues in America because outside of humanities departments and certain parts of the Upper West Side Lenin has the relevance of the telegram. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On February 23 2014 13:02 Shady Sands wrote: Judging by the vitriol in this thread between Zeo and Cheerio, I don't have high hopes that Ukraine will remain under one government for long, though I do think both governments will claim to represent all of Ukraine. Zeo is Serbian -_- Honestly, this thread has turned embarrassing rather quickly. Shape up and stop posting fact-free malignant one-liners or I'll bet it will be closed by the mods before long. Regarding the EU's response to Yanuk's hasty departure and the Rada's impeachment: | ||
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Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On February 23 2014 18:22 Maenander wrote: So what now? Back to Timoschenko? I don't know if that's really a way forward ... It isn't a way forward. If Ukraine chooses to elect a crook like she is, it will go down the drain again. In fact she started presidential campaign already, when she ranted about the agreement between opposition and Yanukovich. Calling not to sign it was a calculated move in hope to swing public opinion, which was not happy about the agreement, to her side. Apparently she did not make that big of impression on Maidan, at least this is what Polish media are reporting. Well good for Ukraine I guess. If you ask me, she should be in jail for the stuff she did in 90's. The gas contract with Russia was a tip of an iceberg. | ||
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Eliask
1 Post
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Novel
Russian Federation32 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5778 Posts
On February 23 2014 21:02 Novel wrote: Cool, the opposition erased regional status of russian language in the East Ukraine. Which means that there will be problems with russian cinemas, kindergardens and so on. Yeah, totally right step... How did they do that? Aren't they in the minority in that part of Ukraine? Is this confirmed? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22201 Posts
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Novel
Russian Federation32 Posts
On February 23 2014 21:15 Gorsameth wrote: Considering where the poster is from im going to count that up to propaganda until reliable sources are mentioned. Really? Isn't it racist to assume such things based on nationality? If you want to - http://top.rbc.ru/textonlines/23/02/2014/906689.shtml Or - http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/20140223152403.shtml There also other russian sites I can give you. Later on this will be on englisg media as well. RBC is pretty reliable source. Basically it is business media and they are opinion free. They post mostly facts. Around an hour ago Ukranian Rada cancelled "State language policy" law. That law established russian language status as "regional" in the East Ukraine. 232 deputies vote for it (226 needed). Also - there is a project of a law banning Regional Party and Communists. http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=49863 (Official Rada website) | ||
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