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On August 06 2012 16:42 Obvious.660 wrote:Okay so I went through DarthPunk's filter and rediscovered our little disagreement from earlier in the game. Originally I dismissed it as him misunderstanding the intent of my post. In its original form: + Show Spoiler [The original] +On July 30 2012 18:57 Obvious.660 wrote:Of the remaining people, outside of myself and Promethelax, we have alan133 and DarthPunk who did not vote for Golbat. Since I have already gone back and forth with Promethelax and found his reasons for voting for Shady Sands similar to but above and beyond my own, there are two players remaining to look at.
First I'll take a look at alan133's posts: Some behavior analysis: consistent in his methods for determining his best scum target. His vote on Shady Sands was not willy-nilly, and he considered the cases against Golbat and Mordanis as well before casting his vote. Solid play on this end, in my opinion, at least throughout D1. Show nested quote +On July 29 2012 03:55 alan133 wrote:
However, loosely quoting someone: "The goal of lynching is to get scum", I am still in favor of Shady lynch instead of Golbat for I believe the former has a much higher chance to flip scum, in other words, I am keeping my vote, unless it is really necessary for me to switch to make a lynch happen, but I will probably be sleeping as the vote is tally. I urge all who has not voted (or already voted but not into the potential lynch target) to reconsider their votes aiming for a lynch. At this point there were 5 votes for Golbat. Two possibilities for this rather well timed post: Town alan133 wants to make sure we don't get into a no-lynch scenario, as that gives us little to work with for actual information that can be 100% confirmed (a flip)or Scum alan133 is setting himself up to ensure a mislynch won't end up looking bad on him if he has to put his vote in as the one of the last people on the Golbat vote list.Of these two scenarios, I'm more easily convinced that alan133 is acting in the best interests of the town. I did want to mention this though if any suspicions arise regarding his votes or actions in the future. I have a question for alan133:How did you make sense of goodkarma's post regarding Keirathi? I'm not really able to pinpoint exactly where that case even is, so you'll need to point it out for me, please.
DarthPunk's filter: So the first thing I notice after processing the first half of my post here is that DarthPunk and alan133 both ended up posting around the time where Golbat was at 5 votes. DarthPunk also explained that he would be willing to change his vote from Mordanis to Golbat to avoid a mislynch with his post 40 minutes later. Sounds appropriate given the situation, from a town perspective. But again, we're at the two scenarios as above where we're either seeing avoiding looking bad for the mislynch, or staying around to ensure there is a lynch. It seems his main reason for staying on Mordanis is motivated by finding Mordanis' play as confusing to the town as well as not being convinced about his own case(s).
So are they connected somehow? Outside of their willingness to switch votes, here's all I can see: - No direct mention of alan133 in DarthPunk's filter.
- alan133 doesn't agree with DarthPunk's assessment of Mordanis in this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 27 2012 12:23 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 11:54 Shady Sands wrote:On July 27 2012 10:17 DarthPunk wrote:So I just read through the thread and the first post that really sprang out at me was this. + Show Spoiler +On July 27 2012 07:43 Mordanis wrote:Rather than sitting in a circle and deciding whom to lynch based on who sing "Kum ba yah, My Lord" the most off key (what kind of villainous scum would do such a thing?), I think its time to begin the scumhunt. Anyways, I apologize in advance if this seems somewhat rushed. I want to get the hunt going as early as possible, and I feel we've wasted the first hour and a half. So without further ado, here comes (hopefully) the first case of the game: Mordanis's's case on KeirathiK (for some reason your name is really hard for me to type) began this game by virtually claiming Town RB. + Show Spoiler +On July 27 2012 05:41 Keirathi wrote:
First things first:
If we have a town roleblocker, I think its best not to use your role early. You generally have as much chance of hurting a teamate as you do a scum. I'm not saying to NEVER use it, but think carefully and only use it if you are reasonably sure that you are blocking a scum.
Some policy discussion:
Lynch All Liars - I'm of the opinion that there are very, very few cases where lying as a townie is beneficial to town. With that said, there ARE cases where it is a realistic option, so I think blanket policy lynching is a fairly bad thing. Case-by-case basis.
Lynch All Lurkers - As much as lurking hurts town, I feel like at least in newbie games, lurking is almost guaranteed. I encourage everyone to try as hard as they can to avoid lurking sot hat we won't have to discuss this later. Lurking as a townie hurts town. Please don't do it. Again, case-by-case basis.
Are all roleblocks notified, or only people with power roles?
I've seen games where it works both ways, so best to clarify early.
. Now this may have been a case of extreme newbiness, which would be understandable, but Mr. K has played in at least 2 other games, so I believe he knew how this post would be interpreted. This brings up 3 possibilities: 1: Mr. K is VT, and he is trying to "take one for the team". He knows that the scum will see this post and read him blue, and he'll die tonight instead of a real blue. If this were to happen, he'd have helped town. If he gets lynched today, it'll be bad for town, but it will be deal-with-able. 2: Mr. K is actually townie RB. Perhaps he is trying to make his "claim" so obvious the scum will think option 1 is happening. Trying to hide out in the open. If he is killed during the night, we're in pretty bad shape. But if this option is the case and he's lynched today, we're in even worse shape, because he won't have used his power even once. That said, he implied that he wouldn't want to use it N1 anyway, so the options are virtually the same. 3: Mr. K is scum, and is trying to use this as means to get himself out of trouble. If he ever gets some heat brought to him, he just says "Dude, I basically claimed town RB, I don't think its a good idea to lynch me" The claim also puts pressure on any real blues to claim, and when everyone claims, a claim isn't worth anything. Basically, this post seems mildly non-protown, and it gives him a way to defend himself. Destabilizing town and giving yourself an extra cycle seems very scummy to me. If we lynch him today, we're off to a great start. And if this option is the case, scum aren't killing him tonight. Of these three, option 2 seems by far the least probable. So that being said, I think that right now Keirathi is the best candidate for lynching. Still, its pretty early so I don't think it would be wise in any way to commit right now. Last thing: I have to go to work now, and I'll be back in probably 5 hours (rakin in the cash makin pizza), just FYI. So after some policy discussion Mordanis makes his case against Keirathi. After some WIFOM we get to this - If he is killed during the night, we're in pretty bad shape. But if this option is the case and he's lynched today, we're in even worse shape, because he won't have used his power even once. So Keirathi is blue and we are in bad shape if he is NK/Lynched. but then we get to this: If we lynch him today, we're off to a great start. And this: So that being said, I think that right now Keirathi is the best candidate for lynching. Twice stating that Keirath is is our best lynch at the moment which is a direct contradiction to his other premise. he ends with this: I don't think it would be wise in any way to commit right now So after backflipping from his first premise (that it would be terribad for Keirathi to be NK and an even worse for us to mislynch him), and TWICE stating that Keirathi is our best Lynch. Mordanis decides that it isn't wise to commit right now after all. This post was WIFOM, contradiction and confusion. At best it is saying something while saying nothing. At worst it is a deliberate attempt of scum to mislynch their blue read day 1. Destabilizing town and giving yourself an extra cycle seems very scummy to me. Yeah it does doesn't it. FoS Mordanis I'm not sure we can use internal contradictions between Mordanis' three different points as evidence, given that they are illustrating three different "what-ifs". That being said, though, his logic as to why point #2 is the least likely and point #3 is the most likely doesn't hold water (or rather, doesn't exist), and each of his points are pretty farfetched. I'd say he's our best option for a day 1 lynch at this point, but to be extra sure, we should wait until Ange777 has had a chance to post as well, and Mordanis gets back from making pizzas and has had a chance to defend himself. Even if he flips green (which is likely, let's not get our hopes up here), his lynch will tell us a lot about who we should go after next, since people seem to have had strong reactions to both his proposal to go after Keir, his own lynching, and his arguments against policy lynching. -He posts 3 different scenario's on Keir which contradicted one another (he states these as a 'case', whatever). 2 of the 3 have Keir as a blue and the third as scum. Yet he still sees Keir as the best lynch. The case is completely confused and without a logical narrative, based on a 'virtual claim' by Keirathi that I honestly don't think is there. There is no reason whatsoever that I can think of to make a case with internal contradictions. Am I missing something here? -It is statistically likely that he will flip green. but you can say that about anyone. If you think he is town or not suspicious don't vote for him. Read filters, make a case etc.
For this reason:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 27 2012 12:46 alan133 wrote:I refreshed to forum I see Mordanis is currently under fire for his post. After reading Darth's case I don't think he is a good day 1 lynch for the following reason. - The only fault I see in his post is that Mordanis put words into Keirathi's mouth, with his sketchy logic based on his assumption that Kei role claimed.
- Those "contradictory" scenarios are not contradictory because it is not related to each other.
- Mordanis is the first person to bring out a case. Ignoring WIFOM, this is a town favored trait.
I don't see any obvious connections here. The only things they had in common so far really was they didn't vote for Golbat, and both were willing to change votes. This tells me nothing of either of them individually but leads me to believe that they are not necessarily of the same alignment. The part that Darth took issue with was that I said he would switch to Golbat to secure the lynch. So why would I say something like that? Reality: I was merely stating that at the time of his post, the most likely candidate for lynch based on the attitude of the town was Golbat who was in first place with 5 votes. In second place was Shady Sands with 3 votes, not exactly a contender for a guaranteed lynch. Easier to use the word Golbat because it actually mirrors reality. He makes it sound like I accused him of a blatant scum slip. Initially I didn't see why Darth would want to correct me, but I finally get it.Darth's Overreaction: Obvious claims I stated I would vote to lynch Golbat. Better correct him so they don't think I said something very clearly scummy when nobody was looking. If Darth had never brought this up and tried to correct me, it would have flown under my radar. I had already dismissed my post as crap and forgotten about it. Thinking about it now, it seems more likely that Darth was too forward thinking in his response to it. Forward thinking. That seems to have come up in a conversation with him, too: + Show Spoiler [Getting Ahead] +On August 05 2012 19:24 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 18:45 Ange777 wrote:
A wise man once said: When you are ahead, get more ahead. Why bus their own team member when scum could have easily get a mislynch on another townie: Mordanis? Votes were stuck evenly for quite a long time.
Anyway, I want to hear your scum reads. I have a feeling you are accusing me of bussing Zork? What? you had suspicions that that is where I was going before I even accused you? Is this because it is the one thing you are afraid of people thinking? On August 05 2012 19:29 DarthPunk wrote:
EPWOP: They were far ahead. Zork was inactive and not contributing, had suspicions raised against him several times. It would be a smart play to trade the most obvious member of their scum team for lots of town credit and 2 further mislynches (which you have prepared beforehand.) That is getting further ahead. That is winning the game.
I got a laugh from this. I just spent a few min trying to find out how it happened, innocent error that looks really fishy if you don't see where it came from: Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 20:35 DarthPunk wrote:On August 03 2012 20:01 DarthPunk wrote:
I think your case against Mordanis is good. But right now, I am not willing to vote for someone, whom I think has a decent chance of flipping scum when I am convinced that Zork will flip scum!
This is the problem I have as well. The inner quote is actually from Ange. Solved the mystery. Imagine if this was Darth actually saying he's concerned Zork will flip scum.
Edit before having to double post: It appears we lit a fire under this one... Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:55 aRyuujin wrote:On August 06 2012 15:35 DarthPunk wrote:
@Jingle. I have a town read on you because you are experiencing exactly what I am experiencing. If the same people that are trying to mislynch you are also trying to mislynch me. I assume you must be town. If you think there is an ulterior motive for me believing you to be town and that that is enough reason to vote for me, so be it.
That being said. I will continue to post cases and defend myself but I am sheeping shadys vote no matter what this cycle. If shady votes for me I will vote for myself etc. The reason for this is that the situation is bad at the moment. a mess really. I will sheep the vote of the confirmed town. Whilst still contributing as much as possible.
If I had to vote for someone right now it would be aRyuujin he had less than a pages worth of filter but has LEAPT into action now more than one person is considering voting for him. I mean read his filter. the contrast is obvious.
So basically you don't want any responsibility for your vote? It's been said, time and time again, the strongest weapon of a town is their vote. Abandoning your vote is NEVER a pro town move. Now, let's see what he actually says in this post. He has a town read on Jingle. Why? Because DP says DP is town, and anyone who says DP is town cannot ever accuse someone correctly. Seems legit. Now, let's see, why would DP actually say Jingle is town? Maybe... it's because DP ALREADY KNOWS that Jingle is town. Darthpunk is furthering his ploy to have Jingle's green flip make him look clean. Shady, come on man. At this point, lynching Darthpunk needs to be priority #1.
Honestly I'm too tired to go further with this. I see a few votes already heading in this direction. Darth has a town read on Jingle. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 16:07 goodkarma wrote:
EBWOP: Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling defense -_- I don't really see a reason to disagree with GK's summary. I'm trying to figure out how he can know Jingle is town without the use of WIFOM.##VOTE DarthPunk
If you look through my filter I stated quite clearly my problem was that you took your assumption and clearly presented it as my statement. that is all.
The Quote of Ange was just her position reversed. I thought zork MAY be scum but I was SURE mordanis was.
I have already addressed why I have a town read on jingle.
Is there anything else? i fail to see a blatant revelation that explains your position. seems like a weak case to go with the other weak cases to join an increasingly easy bandwagon
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Also @ Obvious: I spent about 2 minutes trying to figure that mystery out myself, as well, finally gave up lol.
And Obvious references a good point:
Darth has a town read on Jingle.
On August 06 2012 16:07 goodkarma wrote:
EBWOP: Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling defense -_-
I don't really see a reason to disagree with GK's summary. I'm trying to figure out how he can know Jingle is town without the use of WIFOM.
On August 06 2012 15:55 aRyuujin wrote:
Now, let's see what he actually says in this post.
He has a town read on Jingle. Why? Because DP says DP is town, and anyone who says DP is town cannot ever accuse someone correctly. Seems legit. Now, let's see, why would DP actually say Jingle is town? Maybe... it's because DP ALREADY KNOWS that Jingle is town. Darthpunk is furthering his ploy to have Jingle's green flip make him look clean.
Shady, come on man. At this point, lynching Darthpunk needs to be priority #1.
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On August 06 2012 07:31 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:So if you have been avidly following my conversation with DarthPunk you will probably have realized we don't really see eye to eye. Now I am going to give him another reason to disagree with me. I am proposing to lynch DarthPunk first instead of Jingle.You might think that it does seem like an aweful OMGUS vote after I have been vividly arguing with DarthPunk but OMGUS isn't about WHO you vote, it's about HOW you vote them. A vote is only OMGUS if you're voting them BECAUSE they voted you. If you vote them for a well-thought-out reason, even if they also voted you, then it's not OMGUS.
Let's first go through the reasons why I wanted to vote him anyway: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=48#9451. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch. Instead of really defending himself against my accusations DarthPunk makes a huge WIFOM explanation and decides to paint me scummy by saying I set him up with a trap. He denies me any kind of town motivation for pointing out Zork's scumslip. Yet he was happy to give Zork the benefit of doubt until last minute even though many people pointed out his scum behaviour. I see a clear scum motivation for his behaviour:
1. Save Zork and mislynch Mordanis (or aRyuujin at least) instead
2. When there is no way to save Zork, switch the vote before Zork's claim to get a bit of town cred
3. Discredit me as I am the most active power behind his lynch and mislynch me insteadWith him being called out as scum by several people DarthPunk is just flailing around desperately trying to shift the attention to someone, anyone besides himself. He didn't even give us any other reads besides me. I can only repeat it: This is no pro town play! DarthPunk, I'd really like to congratulate you for writing the best case on yourself -> your own filter!So why lynch DarthPunk before Jingle? After all this discussion I am even more convinced of him being scum than I am of Jingle. I made the case on Jingle because there was no town motivation for his awful play. If he isn't just simply bad he must be scum. However this case against DarthPunk is based on his clear scum motivation and not based on the lack of town motivation. To make it clear: If I am 99% convinced that Jingle is scum, than I am 100% convinced that DarthPunk is scum.In my opinion we can not let him get away with this! ##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk OK all 3 of those points I have covered already. If you are refusing to see the reasoning behind it. Now you are saying that because I did not present cases that you asked for I am scum? I said I would be out of the thread for 12 hours as I was sleeping. So you ask me a question after i have said that and use my lack of response that you were aware of as I said I was sleeping
I did not make this case because you were away which I had seen. Stop making up bad excuses to discredit me.
so now there is no motivation for jingles play? you have said that there was scum motivation for jingles play for the past 2 days and now there is no motivation? You realise that was my issue with the jingle case right?
Jingle has played so badly that I fail to see any kind of town motivation. There are two options: He really just IS that bad or he must be scum.
You on the other hand have played clearly with scum motivation. Therefore naturally I prefer to lynch you.
If that was your issue with the case on Jingle than congrats, I am agreeing with you on this point.
1. if not for you baiting me. I would NEVER have said anything in order to 'save zork'
2. I did not see zorks claim. I was simply fulfilling my promise to stop a no lynch.
3. I know I am town. So if as town I am put into a situation where I was clearly trapped. Then I am obviously going to come after that person.
addendum: So now that I know what you are up to I will say this. TOWN: when I flip green can you please do something about this guy. I don't mind dying as long as it helps us win the game.
For the last time, I did not bait you. What is wrong with asking someone for the reasons why they don't want to vote for a case? And why would you obviously come after me? Town should not be afraid of dying because they are town, not scum. You don't need to be afraid if one person comes after you instead you should continue to hunt scum. That is a town indicator. So what did you do? You first came after me when I accused you, than after aRyuujin accused you you switched to him. You are indeed flailing around and throwing mud at all your accusers. Scum.
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On August 06 2012 16:44 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 16:00 goodkarma wrote:It appears that the Darthpunk lynch is gaining momentum. And now there's side-tangents that include alan too... I'm still against lynching Darthpunk today. Can someone kindly explain to me why he's 100% scum? Ange's arguement against him was summarized as: On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:1. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch.
1) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Darthpunk's "defense" of Zork amounting to he felt Zork was some kind of lurker. And if we were to lynch solely based off that reasoning we should lynch aRyuujin. I don't recall much further "defense" than that, and that seems like a reasonable arguement if he was looking at it solely from the lurker standpoint. 2) I find Darthpunk's claim that he hadn't seen Zork's post before his post FAR MORE BELIEVABLE than that in QT scum were like "let's have Darthpunk change vote and bus Zork TWO MINUTES AFTER he incriminates himself." I'd expect a move like this to be planned out hours ahead of time so that Darthpunk could change his vote way ahead of time and avoid suspicion... Thanks aRyuujin for your most recent case post. It's a dramatic improvement from earlier  . One thing on your case against Darthpunk I'd like to specifically address, though, is your implication that NK'ing Mordanis benefited Darthpunk. Any such discussion of why scum NK'ed a specific person I feel is too much WIFOM to really bring up. I could come up with other realistic reasons why they might have NK'ed Mordanis. The first that comes to mind is they wanted to get someone they were pretty sure wouldn't be medic saved... If someone could summarize a specific case point that shows Darthpunk's guilt that I haven't discussed here please let me know. I wanted to give Darthpunk a chance to defend himself, as I feel his defense is just as important as what was said in the case against him to get a good read of the situation. But after his defense, I don't feel the evidence is there to say he's a sure scum, especially compared to Jingle. Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling arguement -_- I understand the need for town to stay united, and will coincide my vote with Shady's to secure the lynch for Darth IF IT COMES TO THAT, but I honestly hope it doesn't. I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves. Almost everyone is in agreement that Jingle is scum, so why are we now voting Darth? If there's some compelling arguement for lynching him I've overlooked, please enlighten me. @goodkarma: What you quoted is not my entire case. It is the behaviour which made him scummy but the reason why I want to vote him is the scum motivation behind it. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:
I see a clear scum motivation for his behaviour:
1. Save Zork and mislynch Mordanis (or aRyuujin at least) instead
2. When there is no way to save Zork, switch the vote before Zork's claim to get a bit of town cred
3. Discredit me as I am the most active power behind his lynch and mislynch me
Even if you give DarthPunk the benefit of doubt that he really did believe Zork was a lurker I really don't see why he would put Zork and aRyuujin in one category. To me, aRyuujin seems like a bored town who can't bother himself to post more active. His most recent activity fits that perfectly. Which is why I will not vote for aRyuujin. Scum doesn't always show themselves with some damning piece of evidence. (And even if they do as in Zork's slip not everyone accepts it ... ) You have to instead think about why someone would do this or that and whether it is scum motivated or if there is a town motivation for it. Therefore I'd like you to weigh once more whether you really think that there might be a town motivation for DarthPunk's behaviour or whether a scum DarthPunk would make so much more sense.
So you actually have ignored my defense on all those points. and added nothing to the case against me. OK
I think it would be obvious why if we lynched someone based on them lurking it would be aRyuujin. he had half a page filter and had missed a vote. yet you had a town read from him?
Please add something to the case that has not been answered other than 'I believe him to be scum therefore he is scum'
I never said you were my top scum read. I thought it was possible. and if you note the context. I was specifically assked by YOU to provide a scum read other than yourself. which I then did. You are ONCE AGAIN using information YOU ASKED FOR as some sort of proof I am scum.
Seriously?
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On August 06 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote:
Is there anything else? i fail to see a blatant revelation that explains your position. seems like a weak case to go with the other weak cases to join an increasingly easy bandwagon
You are getting sulky. The easy bandwagon would have been Jingle. When we had the consensus to lynch him, there was no posting at all from town for the entire first half of day 3.
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On August 06 2012 17:03 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 07:31 DarthPunk wrote:On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:So if you have been avidly following my conversation with DarthPunk you will probably have realized we don't really see eye to eye. Now I am going to give him another reason to disagree with me. I am proposing to lynch DarthPunk first instead of Jingle.You might think that it does seem like an aweful OMGUS vote after I have been vividly arguing with DarthPunk but OMGUS isn't about WHO you vote, it's about HOW you vote them. A vote is only OMGUS if you're voting them BECAUSE they voted you. If you vote them for a well-thought-out reason, even if they also voted you, then it's not OMGUS.
Let's first go through the reasons why I wanted to vote him anyway: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=48#9451. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch. Instead of really defending himself against my accusations DarthPunk makes a huge WIFOM explanation and decides to paint me scummy by saying I set him up with a trap. He denies me any kind of town motivation for pointing out Zork's scumslip. Yet he was happy to give Zork the benefit of doubt until last minute even though many people pointed out his scum behaviour. I see a clear scum motivation for his behaviour:
1. Save Zork and mislynch Mordanis (or aRyuujin at least) instead
2. When there is no way to save Zork, switch the vote before Zork's claim to get a bit of town cred
3. Discredit me as I am the most active power behind his lynch and mislynch me insteadWith him being called out as scum by several people DarthPunk is just flailing around desperately trying to shift the attention to someone, anyone besides himself. He didn't even give us any other reads besides me. I can only repeat it: This is no pro town play! DarthPunk, I'd really like to congratulate you for writing the best case on yourself -> your own filter!So why lynch DarthPunk before Jingle? After all this discussion I am even more convinced of him being scum than I am of Jingle. I made the case on Jingle because there was no town motivation for his awful play. If he isn't just simply bad he must be scum. However this case against DarthPunk is based on his clear scum motivation and not based on the lack of town motivation. To make it clear: If I am 99% convinced that Jingle is scum, than I am 100% convinced that DarthPunk is scum.In my opinion we can not let him get away with this! ##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk OK all 3 of those points I have covered already. If you are refusing to see the reasoning behind it. Now you are saying that because I did not present cases that you asked for I am scum? I said I would be out of the thread for 12 hours as I was sleeping. So you ask me a question after i have said that and use my lack of response that you were aware of as I said I was sleeping I did not make this case because you were away which I had seen. Stop making up bad excuses to discredit me. Show nested quote +so now there is no motivation for jingles play? you have said that there was scum motivation for jingles play for the past 2 days and now there is no motivation? You realise that was my issue with the jingle case right? Jingle has played so badly that I fail to see any kind of town motivation. There are two options: He really just IS that bad or he must be scum. You on the other hand have played clearly with scum motivation. Therefore naturally I prefer to lynch you. If that was your issue with the case on Jingle than congrats, I am agreeing with you on this point. Show nested quote +1. if not for you baiting me. I would NEVER have said anything in order to 'save zork'
2. I did not see zorks claim. I was simply fulfilling my promise to stop a no lynch.
3. I know I am town. So if as town I am put into a situation where I was clearly trapped. Then I am obviously going to come after that person.
addendum: So now that I know what you are up to I will say this. TOWN: when I flip green can you please do something about this guy. I don't mind dying as long as it helps us win the game. For the last time, I did not bait you. What is wrong with asking someone for the reasons why they don't want to vote for a case? And why would you obviously come after me? Town should not be afraid of dying because they are town, not scum. You don't need to be afraid if one person comes after you instead you should continue to hunt scum. That is a town indicator. So what did you do? You first came after me when I accused you, than after aRyuujin accused you you switched to him. You are indeed flailing around and throwing mud at all your accusers. Scum.
aRyuujinb accused me first FYI.
you did bait me. [b]If you had not asked why the case was weaker there would be no 'soft defense'[b]
It's ironic that you say I am throwing mud at my accusers, as both of you suddenly changed your opinion on lynching jingle as soon as I threw suspicion upon you. Please refrain from basing your case on a feeling. Saying I am throwing mud around etc. without actually adding anything to the case which I have not already responded to or cannot respond to. Feelings, baseless accusations etc.
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On August 06 2012 17:06 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote:
Is there anything else? i fail to see a blatant revelation that explains your position. seems like a weak case to go with the other weak cases to join an increasingly easy bandwagon You are getting sulky. The easy bandwagon would have been Jingle. When we had the consensus to lynch him, there was no posting at all from town for the entire first half of day 3.
This is what I am talking about. I am getting sulky?? what does that add to the case. you are posting ad nauseum whilst adding nothing to the case that I have not addressed, even though you Implied you would.
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The easy bandwagon would have been jingle? scumslip much. you formed that bandwagon. He couldnt even be bothered defending himself. So you go after the other mislynch you set up because.
a.) I cast doubt on your position as town 'leader' and your scum buddy aRyuujin.
b.) you are using your 'town cred' in order to make the more diffcult mislynch first. and then you can easily mislynch an easier target tomorrow at MYLO
c.) You are either scum or incredibly over confident and arrogant. you make a weak case. add nothing to it but he is scum he must be lynched and then assume town will follow you without question.
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EBWOP: and then if I do defend myself. It is a difficult lynch and thus must be correct. Honestly..
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On August 06 2012 16:59 aRyuujin wrote:Also @ Obvious: I spent about 2 minutes trying to figure that mystery out myself, as well, finally gave up lol. And Obvious references a good point: Show nested quote +Darth has a town read on Jingle.
On August 06 2012 16:07 goodkarma wrote:
EBWOP: Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling defense -_-
I don't really see a reason to disagree with GK's summary. I'm trying to figure out how he can know Jingle is town without the use of WIFOM.
Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 15:55 aRyuujin wrote:
Now, let's see what he actually says in this post.
He has a town read on Jingle. Why? Because DP says DP is town, and anyone who says DP is town cannot ever accuse someone correctly. Seems legit. Now, let's see, why would DP actually say Jingle is town? Maybe... it's because DP ALREADY KNOWS that Jingle is town. Darthpunk is furthering his ploy to have Jingle's green flip make him look clean.
Shady, come on man. At this point, lynching Darthpunk needs to be priority #1.
I have already explained this. Is it so difficult to find anything on me that you must constantly rehash old points that have been addressed ad nauseum?
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On August 06 2012 17:13 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 17:06 Ange777 wrote:On August 06 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote:
Is there anything else? i fail to see a blatant revelation that explains your position. seems like a weak case to go with the other weak cases to join an increasingly easy bandwagon You are getting sulky. The easy bandwagon would have been Jingle. When we had the consensus to lynch him, there was no posting at all from town for the entire first half of day 3. This is what I am talking about. I am getting sulky?? what does that add to the case. you are posting ad nauseum whilst adding nothing to the case that I have not addressed, even though you Implied you would.
Actually, posting ad nauseum would mean that nobody wants to discuss anymore. Clearly, that's not the case. Now, what I'm interested in is why you haven't answered the ~6 questions I posed you, or even referenced that post.
It's actually quite possible that you missed it entirely, seeing as it was the last post on the page before this. However, if you were town, you'd actually be answering them by yourself.
And like Ange said, the only scum motivation in accusing you would be to block Jingle's lynch, seeing as his bandwagon had already basically been set to go. (note that this would require 4 mafia in this game) However, as town players, our job is actually not to lynch town and sow confusion while saving ourselves. Instead, we need to hunt out the scum. Honestly, you're not providing us with anything remotely town motivated to go off of for ages.
And is your reasoning for having a town read on Jingle still that you understand what its like to have a bandwagon?
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EBWOP:
Sorry, should've refreshed the main thread. Didn't see all of DP's posts
you just made 5 crappy posts in a row, accusing your accusers. Why? Because they accused you. Sounds like flailing to me.
Your "argument" against the whole "Jingle = ez lynch" literally makes no sense. He's not there to defend himself? Wait a minute. Earlier, you said that Ange attacks people who aren't there to defend themselves BECAUSE they're not there (using yourself as an example). And in those 5 posts, you still haven't done anything constructive except provide absurd arguments.
Because you seem to like traditional argumentation, you can say this post is basically 50% Reductio ad absurdum.
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On August 06 2012 17:33 aRyuujin wrote:
EBWOP:
Sorry, should've refreshed the main thread. Didn't see all of DP's posts
you just made 5 crappy posts in a row, accusing your accusers. Why? Because they accused you. Sounds like flailing to me.
Your "argument" against the whole "Jingle = ez lynch" literally makes no sense. He's not there to defend himself? Wait a minute. Earlier, you said that Ange attacks people who aren't there to defend themselves BECAUSE they're not there (using yourself as an example). And in those 5 posts, you still haven't done anything constructive except provide absurd arguments.
Because you seem to like traditional argumentation, you can say this post is basically 50% Reductio ad absurdum.
How are they absurd arguments? everything that has been brought up has been answered. I am frustrated that you and ange seem to be determined to not read the thread or my filter. and I am having to refer you countless times to posts that are easily found in my filter.
They are not absurd arguments. neither of you have actually raised any further evidence other than that which I have completely defend myself against and now just seem heel bent in discrediting me, either through trying to discredit my arguments without providing a reason. or through trying to state I am emotional or sulky. Every case against me has been answered. You have not brought about further cases but are simply trying to discredit me or paint me scum with things that are not relevant. Feelings, Opinions etc. Not facts. Not evidence. Not a case.
If you feel like my previous posts were non-productive you are correct because I am wasting time by addressing arguments that aren't arguments at all. Like the above.
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Why don't you address the post before that one?
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@aRyuujin
As far as I can tell I have addressed every case or referred you to read my filter because it is addressed therein. I am going to have to leave the thread for a bit shortly. I am sure there will be alot of posts when I get back which state I am scum whilst providing no evidence. so I have something to look forward too
@everyone else isn't the difference in posting from aRyuujin absolutely INCREDIBLE?
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@aRyuujin I see a post in which you rehash old cases say I haven't answered them, then ask for the REAL answer. is that it? I have answered every case. if you choose not to see it I don't know what good repeating myself would do. Or why you are trying so hard to force me to repeat myself. anyway i'm off. back in a couple.
regarding off topicness.
I think both you and ange are being incredibly rude to me. I am guessing it is a case of perspective
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On August 06 2012 17:58 DarthPunk wrote:@aRyuujinAs far as I can tell I have addressed every case or referred you to read my filter because it is addressed therein. I am going to have to leave the thread for a bit shortly. I am sure there will be alot of posts when I get back which state I am scum whilst providing no evidence. so I have something to look forward too @everyone else isn't the difference in posting from aRyuujin absolutely INCREDIBLE?
I'd like to note that I've looked through his filter several times. He hasn't addressed
+ Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 17:27 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 17:13 DarthPunk wrote:On August 06 2012 17:06 Ange777 wrote:On August 06 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote:
Is there anything else? i fail to see a blatant revelation that explains your position. seems like a weak case to go with the other weak cases to join an increasingly easy bandwagon You are getting sulky. The easy bandwagon would have been Jingle. When we had the consensus to lynch him, there was no posting at all from town for the entire first half of day 3. This is what I am talking about. I am getting sulky?? what does that add to the case. you are posting ad nauseum whilst adding nothing to the case that I have not addressed, even though you Implied you would. Actually, posting ad nauseum would mean that nobody wants to discuss anymore. Clearly, that's not the case. Now, what I'm interested in is why you haven't answered the ~6 questions I posed you, or even referenced that post. It's actually quite possible that you missed it entirely, seeing as it was the last post on the page before this. However, if you were town, you'd actually be answering them by yourself. And like Ange said, the only scum motivation in accusing you would be to block Jingle's lynch, seeing as his bandwagon had already basically been set to go. (note that this would require 4 mafia in this game) However, as town players, our job is actually not to lynch town and sow confusion while saving ourselves. Instead, we need to hunt out the scum. Honestly, you're not providing us with anything remotely town motivated to go off of for ages. And is your reasoning for having a town read on Jingle still that you understand what its like to have a bandwagon?
or
+ Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 16:56 aRyuujin wrote: Hey GK! Glad to see you're here. The thing about Darkpunk is that rather than it being one big thing confirming that he's scum (like how Zorkmid dropped that bomb), DP's red status' confirmation is made up of many small tells. Over time, DP has had lots of these small tells, that if we add together, pretty much confirm that he's a scum. One is his defense of Zork. Contrary to popular belief, rather than just stating that Zork is a lurker, DP tried to find town motives to explain away Zork's slips. At some points, (I think where it simply became too difficult because of all the mistakes Zork was making), DP was just like fuck it, he's a bad townie, but..... let's lynch Mordanis! And when people realized how obviously scummy Zork was, THAT was the point when DP was like nope Zork = lurker. Then he made his supposed "instigating attack" that apparently led to me OMGUSing him. Control F for Zork here, it's quite telling. The other thing I really want to point out is that rather than advancing town's position, after being accused, DP has pretty much curled into a ball. He didn't even properly address my analysis (no I don't think it's a case), instead doing exactly what I said he would do: Ignoring my conclusions and instead trying to discredit it by taking small parts and acting absurdly. And it seems that I was ninja'd by Ange, but the thing we need to look for is motives. Not necessarily the actions themselves, but the motives. Why does DP behave the way he does is the question that we need to ask ourselves. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 16:00 goodkarma wrote:It appears that the Darthpunk lynch is gaining momentum. And now there's side-tangents that include alan too... I'm still against lynching Darthpunk today. Can someone kindly explain to me why he's 100% scum? Ange's arguement against him was summarized as: On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:1. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch.
1) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Darthpunk's "defense" of Zork amounting to he felt Zork was some kind of lurker. And if we were to lynch solely based off that reasoning we should lynch aRyuujin. I don't recall much further "defense" than that, and that seems like a reasonable arguement if he was looking at it solely from the lurker standpoint. 2) I find Darthpunk's claim that he hadn't seen Zork's post before his post FAR MORE BELIEVABLE than that in QT scum were like "let's have Darthpunk change vote and bus Zork TWO MINUTES AFTER he incriminates himself." I'd expect a move like this to be planned out hours ahead of time so that Darthpunk could change his vote way ahead of time and avoid suspicion... Thanks aRyuujin for your most recent case post. It's a dramatic improvement from earlier . One thing on your case against Darthpunk I'd like to specifically address, though, is your implication that NK'ing Mordanis benefited Darthpunk. Any such discussion of why scum NK'ed a specific person I feel is too much WIFOM to really bring up. I could come up with other realistic reasons why they might have NK'ed Mordanis. The first that comes to mind is they wanted to get someone they were pretty sure wouldn't be medic saved... If someone could summarize a specific case point that shows Darthpunk's guilt that I haven't discussed here please let me know. I wanted to give Darthpunk a chance to defend himself, as I feel his defense is just as important as what was said in the case against him to get a good read of the situation. But after his defense, I don't feel the evidence is there to say he's a sure scum, especially compared to Jingle. Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling arguement -_- I understand the need for town to stay united, and will coincide my vote with Shady's to secure the lynch for Darth IF IT COMES TO THAT, but I honestly hope it doesn't. I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves. Almost everyone is in agreement that Jingle is scum, so why are we now voting Darth? If there's some compelling arguement for lynching him I've overlooked, please enlighten me. and @ Darthpunk If you want us to take you for a townie, you're going to have to act like a townie. All you've really posted is that you feel for Jingle for getting accused and that you're mad at me/i'm an idiot/i'm scum/there's something very funny for accusing you. What do you think about Alan? Who's the other scum besides myself? Why is it that when I address you, you ignore what I'm saying, and then say that I'm the one ignoring what you're saying? What's the REAL reason why you think Jingle is town? And why are you going to brush this post off with plenty of LOL, ROFL. and LMAO? Something else I dug up: + Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 17:25 goodkarma wrote:
@Shady, wherever you are: I hope you have good reason to be away from these forums...
We need 6/7 town to get lynch majority... With our current division, I just don't see that happening... I still believe that banding together around Shady was our best chance, and I hope he returns to provide his impressions with the most recently presented cases.
I feel very uneasy about voting Mord. On top of the reasons I've already presented, aRyuujin, my top scum suspect, has also gotten onto that bandwaggon.
If Shady comes back and decides Mord. is still his best choice, then fine. Until then:
b]##unvote
##Vote: Zorkmid
Zorkmid is an obvious scum. I sincerely hope that Darthpunk will change his vote. Even then, I can't help but feel that town is in trouble here. -_-
I will be checking this forum again before the deadline, and will only consider changing my vote to one of the following to achieve a majority lynch: aRyuujin, JinglHells, or Shady's choice (if he ever provides an update post). Good luck all... Can I just clarify before you leave why you are voting for Zork if Aryuujin is your top scum read. also. SEE waiting around for shady sands to see who to vote for is ridiculous. I am SO GLAD you are going back on that. Here, we have a discussion where DP is . Word for word, DP says that his(DP's) current behavior is "ridiculous" This is somewhat offtopic, so I'll keep it in a spoiler, but it's directed at DP + Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 16:40 DarthPunk wrote:
EBWOP: you also flat out ignore goodkarmas request. have some respect. Hey man, cool down. You're the only person who's been accused of breaking this: However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing. , (In my eyes) you've behaved quite rudely after being accused. Hopefully (and chances are), I'm just getting annoyed because of something stupid, and everyone disagrees with me, but still. Relax and chill
Talk a lot while saying little. This seems to be Darthpunk's main form of defense.
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On August 06 2012 18:07 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 17:58 DarthPunk wrote:@aRyuujinAs far as I can tell I have addressed every case or referred you to read my filter because it is addressed therein. I am going to have to leave the thread for a bit shortly. I am sure there will be alot of posts when I get back which state I am scum whilst providing no evidence. so I have something to look forward too @everyone else isn't the difference in posting from aRyuujin absolutely INCREDIBLE? I'd like to note that I've looked through his filter several times. He hasn't addressed + Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 17:27 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 17:13 DarthPunk wrote:On August 06 2012 17:06 Ange777 wrote:On August 06 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote:
Is there anything else? i fail to see a blatant revelation that explains your position. seems like a weak case to go with the other weak cases to join an increasingly easy bandwagon You are getting sulky. The easy bandwagon would have been Jingle. When we had the consensus to lynch him, there was no posting at all from town for the entire first half of day 3. This is what I am talking about. I am getting sulky?? what does that add to the case. you are posting ad nauseum whilst adding nothing to the case that I have not addressed, even though you Implied you would. Actually, posting ad nauseum would mean that nobody wants to discuss anymore. Clearly, that's not the case. Now, what I'm interested in is why you haven't answered the ~6 questions I posed you, or even referenced that post. It's actually quite possible that you missed it entirely, seeing as it was the last post on the page before this. However, if you were town, you'd actually be answering them by yourself. And like Ange said, the only scum motivation in accusing you would be to block Jingle's lynch, seeing as his bandwagon had already basically been set to go. (note that this would require 4 mafia in this game) However, as town players, our job is actually not to lynch town and sow confusion while saving ourselves. Instead, we need to hunt out the scum. Honestly, you're not providing us with anything remotely town motivated to go off of for ages. And is your reasoning for having a town read on Jingle still that you understand what its like to have a bandwagon? or + Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 16:56 aRyuujin wrote: Hey GK! Glad to see you're here. The thing about Darkpunk is that rather than it being one big thing confirming that he's scum (like how Zorkmid dropped that bomb), DP's red status' confirmation is made up of many small tells. Over time, DP has had lots of these small tells, that if we add together, pretty much confirm that he's a scum. One is his defense of Zork. Contrary to popular belief, rather than just stating that Zork is a lurker, DP tried to find town motives to explain away Zork's slips. At some points, (I think where it simply became too difficult because of all the mistakes Zork was making), DP was just like fuck it, he's a bad townie, but..... let's lynch Mordanis! And when people realized how obviously scummy Zork was, THAT was the point when DP was like nope Zork = lurker. Then he made his supposed "instigating attack" that apparently led to me OMGUSing him. Control F for Zork here, it's quite telling. The other thing I really want to point out is that rather than advancing town's position, after being accused, DP has pretty much curled into a ball. He didn't even properly address my analysis (no I don't think it's a case), instead doing exactly what I said he would do: Ignoring my conclusions and instead trying to discredit it by taking small parts and acting absurdly. And it seems that I was ninja'd by Ange, but the thing we need to look for is motives. Not necessarily the actions themselves, but the motives. Why does DP behave the way he does is the question that we need to ask ourselves. Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 16:00 goodkarma wrote:It appears that the Darthpunk lynch is gaining momentum. And now there's side-tangents that include alan too... I'm still against lynching Darthpunk today. Can someone kindly explain to me why he's 100% scum? Ange's arguement against him was summarized as: On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:1. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch.
1) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Darthpunk's "defense" of Zork amounting to he felt Zork was some kind of lurker. And if we were to lynch solely based off that reasoning we should lynch aRyuujin. I don't recall much further "defense" than that, and that seems like a reasonable arguement if he was looking at it solely from the lurker standpoint. 2) I find Darthpunk's claim that he hadn't seen Zork's post before his post FAR MORE BELIEVABLE than that in QT scum were like "let's have Darthpunk change vote and bus Zork TWO MINUTES AFTER he incriminates himself." I'd expect a move like this to be planned out hours ahead of time so that Darthpunk could change his vote way ahead of time and avoid suspicion... Thanks aRyuujin for your most recent case post. It's a dramatic improvement from earlier . One thing on your case against Darthpunk I'd like to specifically address, though, is your implication that NK'ing Mordanis benefited Darthpunk. Any such discussion of why scum NK'ed a specific person I feel is too much WIFOM to really bring up. I could come up with other realistic reasons why they might have NK'ed Mordanis. The first that comes to mind is they wanted to get someone they were pretty sure wouldn't be medic saved... If someone could summarize a specific case point that shows Darthpunk's guilt that I haven't discussed here please let me know. I wanted to give Darthpunk a chance to defend himself, as I feel his defense is just as important as what was said in the case against him to get a good read of the situation. But after his defense, I don't feel the evidence is there to say he's a sure scum, especially compared to Jingle. Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling arguement -_- I understand the need for town to stay united, and will coincide my vote with Shady's to secure the lynch for Darth IF IT COMES TO THAT, but I honestly hope it doesn't. I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves. Almost everyone is in agreement that Jingle is scum, so why are we now voting Darth? If there's some compelling arguement for lynching him I've overlooked, please enlighten me. and @ Darthpunk If you want us to take you for a townie, you're going to have to act like a townie. All you've really posted is that you feel for Jingle for getting accused and that you're mad at me/i'm an idiot/i'm scum/there's something very funny for accusing you. What do you think about Alan? Who's the other scum besides myself? Why is it that when I address you, you ignore what I'm saying, and then say that I'm the one ignoring what you're saying? What's the REAL reason why you think Jingle is town? And why are you going to brush this post off with plenty of LOL, ROFL. and LMAO? Something else I dug up: + Show Spoiler +On August 03 2012 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 17:25 goodkarma wrote:
@Shady, wherever you are: I hope you have good reason to be away from these forums...
We need 6/7 town to get lynch majority... With our current division, I just don't see that happening... I still believe that banding together around Shady was our best chance, and I hope he returns to provide his impressions with the most recently presented cases.
I feel very uneasy about voting Mord. On top of the reasons I've already presented, aRyuujin, my top scum suspect, has also gotten onto that bandwaggon.
If Shady comes back and decides Mord. is still his best choice, then fine. Until then:
b]##unvote
##Vote: Zorkmid
Zorkmid is an obvious scum. I sincerely hope that Darthpunk will change his vote. Even then, I can't help but feel that town is in trouble here. -_-
I will be checking this forum again before the deadline, and will only consider changing my vote to one of the following to achieve a majority lynch: aRyuujin, JinglHells, or Shady's choice (if he ever provides an update post). Good luck all... Can I just clarify before you leave why you are voting for Zork if Aryuujin is your top scum read. also. SEE waiting around for shady sands to see who to vote for is ridiculous. I am SO GLAD you are going back on that. Here, we have a discussion where DP is . Word for word, DP says that his(DP's) current behavior is "ridiculous" This is somewhat offtopic, so I'll keep it in a spoiler, but it's directed at DP + Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 16:40 DarthPunk wrote:
EBWOP: you also flat out ignore goodkarmas request. have some respect. Hey man, cool down. You're the only person who's been accused of breaking this: However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing. , (In my eyes) you've behaved quite rudely after being accused. Hopefully (and chances are), I'm just getting annoyed because of something stupid, and everyone disagrees with me, but still. Relax and chill Talk a lot while saying little. This seems to be Darthpunk's main form of defense. [/b]
Ok I fail to see something I have not responded to in those posts. care to summarise concisely the questions i have not answered? dot points preferable.
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Please read the thread, instead of ignoring it and complaining :D
-What do you think about Alan?
-Are Ange and I the scum?
-Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.?
-Why did you post 5x in a row without any content?
-Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle?
-What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous?
-Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion
-Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts?
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Also another one:
Why is obvious agreeing with us? Seeing as your main point about me and Ange being mafia because we accuse you, where does that leave him?
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EPT
