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@Hopeless1der
Read your case as well. The strongest points you had on him, I found, were:
1) His preemptive defense. I don't find reason for him to have defended himself like that, and his whole "received message via PM" seems fake as hell. He didn't have any posts displaying doubt before he supposedly sent the message, which is weird.
2) His inference on "blue fishing". I can't figure out, reading some of the previous posts, what he meant by that. Could that be perhaps what he was actually trying to do?
3) Possible scumslip on "the`n we find the rest of the scumteam". As if he was 100% convinced matt would flip scum. If he was actually 100% convinced, why would he bother explaining his vote, if it looked strange?
The rest of the post is just happenstance, could be anything. Looking forward to his defense.
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On September 07 2012 03:12 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Z-Boson
I believe the misinformation distinguishes him from the other lurkers in a scummy way.
It's interesting that you bring up the whole "attacking active townie" thing, because the post he attacked me for was on page 2 (out of 6) on my filter. Seems pretty silly to determine who and who isn't an active townie only 2 hours into the game? For all he knows, I could go lurker-king after his accusation. Why should attacking a vocal townie or not determine whether or not he's mafia? Mafia-objectives are to cast illogical-suspicion to push for lynches; this is the core of their win-condition.
Anywho, we can agree to disagree. Arguing will get us nowhere if neither of our scumreads are posting.
You were saying he wanted to act townie. I don't think as mafia, attacking an active member is the best way to do that.
Well, I didn't realize it was that early in the game. Anyways, I said this more to draw a parallel between your arguments regarding what mafia would and wouldn't do, but I'm fed up with that discussion as I'm guessing you are.
Agreed, then. Shifting over, what is your take on H1's case against forumite?
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I really don't like the cases on forumite (or vets in general this game) as they're incredibly far-fetched, which is obvious considering the fact that we're still on d1/n1.
That being said I still (somewhat?) agree with the conclusion but I'll post shortly before deadline :p
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@Hopeless - I like that your quality of posting has gone up already. Your defense was at least reasonable, though I don't think that it exonerates you. You mention your actions as stupid and being motivated by frustration or just downright looking scummy. None of which make you look less scummy, but it is nice to have an explanation to hold you to. I did take issue with this part though:
- "If anything, this would have been me HARD bussing Matt, not reluctantly as you've claimed stated."
I would never consider a voteswitch after Palmar's announcement a hard buss. Especially because you were working against the Mattchew wagon before that announcement.
On September 07 2012 01:54 Hopeless1der wrote:
In regards to point (2)
I don't seem happy? What the fuck is this statement? How do you determine happiness based on my voteswitch to a confirmed liar? Why should I have to explain the reasoning when its in the thread for the past however many pages ever since BC knew Mattchew was lying. If anything, this would have been me HARD bussing Matt, not reluctantly as you've claimed stated.
Yes, you didn't seem happy. Maybe I'm just less casual about writing 'fucking' in my posts, but when I see it it sets the entire statement in a negative light. "Reasoning: See the entire fucking thread." That instantly read to me as coming from a place of frustration or unhappiness. Which I think is a strange tone to take when you have such a good day1 lynch in Mattchew.
You are stepping in the right direction, and I'm willing to listen because of that.
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On September 06 2012 09:42 Toadesstern wrote:btw random observation that might be worth sharing as I'm not sure what to make of it yet but it's interessting: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:07 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 05 2012 13:00 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 05 2012 12:59 BroodKingEXE wrote:That was guy number 2 I missed him on my reread of the filters. The end of his post is scummy imo sounds like he is trying to avoid modkill as opposed to helping the town. Interested in why he thinks Matt is assasin and still votes for him. Yep, that's the main problem I would have with him. Also, from your filter, you were pretty focused on Toad. Do you still find him suspicious?? No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 23:39 marvellosity wrote:
Updated
Vote Count:
Mattchew (21): The great unwashed
Toadesstern (2): BroodkingEXE, Ottoxlol
Yet to vote: Lvdr, Mattchew, Shady Sands Important part of the quote in red. Nothing else changed. That's it for today for me
I could've sworn I changed my vote -_-'
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EBWOP: I did in the thread, forgot voting thread.
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On September 07 2012 03:31 Z-BosoN wrote:
...
Agreed, then. Shifting over, what is your take on H1's case against forumite?
Forumite's vote + Pre-emptive defense looks really off. What really catches my eye is the bolded part below:
Reading through the thread, my vote on Matt looks kind of odd. I made it after I got a PM-confirmation from Palmar but before I saw Palmars post in the thread.
Why do people fakevote, then say "lol, I never really voted!" It´s irritating. Making a vote in this thread might not count but I think it´s bad form. Similarly it´s bad to stealthvote in the other thread without confirming it here. If you want to pressurevote, do it for real.
...
After defending his "odd" vote, he goes and picks a fight over an issue that no one really brought up. What's the point of bringing up "fakevoting?" It doesn't read to me as genuine, and considering his relatively lacking filter, it bothers me.
Also, his first post is suspicious to me:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=13#259
He walks into the thread, nitpicks 4 players, and walks out. Again, suspicious.
I think Hopeless's case deserves attention. Forumite's pre-emptive defense of his vote should be catching some eyes.
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I´ve got good timing, getting cases on me right at the end of the night.
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Toads very important thoughts mostly about VETs and whatever else
I consider important so far
I'm doing this post because I'm probably going to die tonight. I consider myself a vet and most people probably consider me a vet as well but unlike BC I usually don't draw protection from medics for two reasons I don't need to go into detail right now, although the reasoning becomes apparant after reading the whole thing :p
First important topic: VETs in this game- Forumite
- BlackMamba24 (referred to as DrH from now on to not confuse him with BM)
- BloodyC0bbler
- Bill Murray
- Toadesstern/myself :p
That's my take on who's a vet in this game.
A lot of people think it's hard to analyse vets to a point that they almost got a mental blockade when it comes to vets, that's why I'm going to post some about those 4/5 although I don't have anything major yet, though I've got a conclusion I'm quite comfortable with.
First things first, I did this post (+ Show Spoiler [click me!] +On September 06 2012 07:40 Toadesstern wrote:
Bam. Watcher on people like BC and me please.
Mafia will want to hit that.
I am an incredible controversial guy and a shitton of people are scared like crazy about me because I'm apparently unreadable according to them.
I'm a little like BC-junior, or maybe WBG-junior in that regard because people tell me I'm looking pro-town no matter of alignment every single game. So usually I'm getting the same old crap about me every game "Toad is looking townish, but that's a null-tell because Toad always looks that way". Take AC for example, Radfield actually told his scumbuddies to just attack me for looking good because I'm always looking good. WBG called the play VE and I did in LI "the best bus TL has ever seen", he said I'm unreadable in PTP, I totally destroyed town in magic and surely everyone remembers the "Annul game" (sup palmer :p). Except for PyourPoison I destroyed pretty much every town I played against as mafia and every single game I was called a townie by the vast majority of the game while telling people what to do.
That's the reason I'm getting these bullshit arguments like "Toad is unreadable" / "Toad is looking town but that means nothing" all the time. No matter if I'm town or mafia and frankly I was expecting to hear something like that from a mafia-player because it's an incredible easy approach to attack someone because you can just say that EVERY single game. Sadly it never happened.
However I still ended up getting some reactions although they're minor ones.
tl;dr / Summary so far:- I am town
- BC is pretty much town
- I highly lean on BM being town giving his style. He attacked me during this night for something he thought to be something. It obviously was nothing but his argument was not the typical "toad is unreadable, BE AFRAID GUYS" fear mongering I get all the time and I doubt a mafia would get in there attacking me the way he did.
That leaves us with Foru and DrH. DrH still feels odd although I can't put my finger on it. Foru feels way to cautios when he's posting.
I'm almost certain one of those 2 got to be mafia and considering that my guts are telling me that foru feels cautios I'd rather bet on him being mafia by some degree.
The thing about this is that it's not a clear case. What I've got about those 3 (BM / foru / drH) so far is very minor and not worth making a case about so I'm not going to. However process of elimination is a nice approach for those kind of people and that being said I really doubt BM or BC are mafia.
People who are not vets but should be a topic
Ottox: No need to talk about him I guess
DoYouHas: He's looking bad when posting but I actually like his answers
strongandbig: That guy should be scared as shit about me but he isn't. Not at all. To be precise he's even pretty buddy-ish with me. I think he knows I'm not mafia. Do not like.
BroodKingEXE: Weirdest vote from d1. Other than that he's fine but the vote really looks like "let's scatter at least SOMEWHAT, just pretend you forgot to unvote BKE"
If Ottox somehow manages to survive the night you've got to lynch him no matter what. It's actually quite possible that we've got vigs thinking "well we probably got a bunch of vigs who want to shoot him so I don't need to as well. No need to quadrupel-stack him". I've been in that situation as well and ended up shooting my #2 reads instead of my #1 reads (AC comes to mind  ) because I thought someone else would take care of the #1 read anyways because the guy was pretty much confirmed mafia.
Ottox definitly is the best lynch if he survives. BKE & S+B are mentioned because I want people to check their filter as well. I'm not set on lynching them yet but they're the best candidates I've got besides the "usual" ones. I'd rather not have people just forget about them.
That being said I think it's quite likely I'm going to be dead in a couple of minutes so I'm posting this to give a couple of thoughts in case I'm not around any more. They're obviously all pretty vague because it's d1/n1 after all and thereforet it's just a summary. That means you've got to check filters yourself to understand what I'm talking about and wether or not you agree with me. Regretted not doing that in WoF when I was shot n1 as well ...
Right now we're having quite a luxury problem though: We're having to many people doing cases about everyone and their dog.
That's totally fine in itself but you guys need to make sure you got some focus tomorrow. Talking about a lot of people is fine but if everyone's like a little gonzaw we'll have 25 people screaming "NO MY CASE IS THE BEST" and mafia has an easy time to pick a fitting case out of the 15915815 existing ones and will push that one.
So don't spam the thread too much. This post I just did is already a wall-of-text although I'm only scratching the surface of things when talking about stuff. So keep that in mind tomorrow.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Er, no posting for a while broskis
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Day 2![[image loading]](http://kansailifornia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/1984-movie-big-brother1.jpg)
So, surveilled citizens. All kinds of weird shit happened this fateful night. Deaths n shit. When the dust settled, the results were:
goodkarma, mafia Suicide bomber, turned up a bloody mess!
Ottoxlol, vanilla townie, unsurprisingly turned up both dead and townie!
Blackmamba24, townie Nosy Neighbour, was electrocuted while looking through someone's window!
BloodyC0bbler, vanilla townie, turned up dead in some manner!
It is now Day 2. You have slightly under 48 hours to decide the next lynch.
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I'm guessing someone vigged Ottoxlol, mafia stacked KP one of BC or BM and then suicide bombed into the other hoping to catch some blue prots. Time to do a lot of re-reading.
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Hmm, goodkarma suiciding on BC the vet I guess.
Plus we got rid of Ottox so gj viggies 
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On September 07 2012 07:30 slOosh wrote:
I'm guessing someone vigged Ottoxlol, mafia stacked KP one of BC or BM and then suicide bombed into the other hoping to catch some blue prots. Time to do a lot of re-reading.
Yea probably double stack on Black Mamba. Or 2 people got hit but one was saved by medic.
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Shame a shot got wasted on Ottox. Oh well.
##Vote Miltonkram
@ Grush
On September 07 2012 07:31 grush57 wrote:Hmm, goodkarma suiciding on BC the vet I guess. Plus we got rid of Ottox so gj viggies
Shouldn't you... uh... NOT be happy vigi shot a green role?
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On September 07 2012 07:34 Hapahauli wrote:Shame a shot got wasted on Ottox. Oh well. ##Vote Miltonkram@ GrushShow nested quote +On September 07 2012 07:31 grush57 wrote:Hmm, goodkarma suiciding on BC the vet I guess. Plus we got rid of Ottox so gj viggies Shouldn't you... uh... NOT be happy vigi shot a green role?
Yea but it's better than just about any other townie. Better than say the vigi going crazy and shooting Toad or something.
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Which Ottox would of done if he was vigi btw.
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But he's not vigi, so who cares? TBH it baffles me that you somehow think that this is a good thing.
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If Ottox would have been alive right now then I expect he´d allready have a few votes. Him dying saved us a day of discussion.
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On September 07 2012 07:39 Forumite wrote:
If Ottox would have been alive right now then I expect he´d allready have a few votes. Him dying saved us a day of discussion.
That too. Probably would of wasted a cycle.
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EPT
