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On December 14 2013 12:09 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 13:02 Plansix wrote:On December 12 2013 12:28 Hider wrote:On December 12 2013 12:22 Plansix wrote:On December 12 2013 11:58 crms wrote:On December 12 2013 11:45 Plansix wrote:On December 12 2013 11:12 crms wrote:
After watching all the parts now and really trying to think about it objectively, this documentary is extremely poorly done and gives no real narrative. unless of course you consider, 'esports is cool, we moved to korea it was hard at first because 'money' an engaging story line.
I'm still wondering why it took so many years and so much money to release a few interviews from 3 different locations with ~4 different people.
Either the director is the biggest amateur hour noob on the planet or we've been duped.
I swear to christ with 0 experience in film making I could have come up with a better story board than this garbage. How about we get to see the locations of the casters hardships, go into detail about what they had to survive in the early days, why they felt they could make it, their reaction to the stardom they have now, I mean ANYTHING. I heard a more interesting story about Artosis from incontroL on state of the game about his mom kicking him out and him sleeping on cement or something.
My god, what a failure this film is, a complete and total failure. I hope this film does make it to NetFlix and I hope real film critics rip this junk to shreds. When you say we've been duped, you mean that you donated? Or are you voicing outrage on behalf of people that donated? duped in the sense that they made a lot of promises and talked this jeff guy up a !@#$%^&* load to be the real deal when he's clearly awful. maybe duped is the wrong word since so many people are talking about this being a 'scam', I don't think it was a cold-blooded scam to rip off esports, I think it was just a bad amateur film maker getting in over his head. I think that is a harsh lesson that Kickstarter teaches, that big ideas and results are two very different things. I think this guy had good intentions and a vision. And clearly it was a vision that enough people wanted. Its just that his ambition and vision never fully made it to film. Or as Jeff Green of the videogame world is fond of saying "Almost no one tries to make a bad game." I don't think this guy did anything wrong beyond fail to communicate with people. He wasn't trying to make a bad film. People took a risk with Kickstarter and it is up to them if it panned out for them or not. The rest of us got a movie and may or may not be something we like. As for the people who did not donate and are throwing around words like "scam", I don't know about them. This is the internet and people like to get really worked up about !@#$%^&*. I disagree - I definitely think he could have worked harder at providing the whole "show dont tell us"-concept. Had he spend just some time studying other succesfull documentaries he would have realized that. Honestly, I think a lot of the problems arisen from this documentary is based on him not working hard enough to improve his film-making skills over the last 2 years. Wait, you are disagreeing by saying he could have tried harder..... Anything else captain obvious? Are you implying he did nothing by taking money from the community and not really work hard enough?
What the fuck are you talking about? You keep making statements that have little to do with what I said. I didn't claim that he worked hard or not. My statement had to do with Kickstarter being a harsh mistress. I said that it was a decision each person who donated to the Kickstarter needed to make on their own if they felt what they got was worth what they paid. I don't have an opinion of how hard he worked, because I have ZERO information to go on. He could have worked super hard and not had the talent to back it up. I don't know and never will.
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On December 14 2013 12:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 12:09 Hider wrote:On December 12 2013 13:02 Plansix wrote:On December 12 2013 12:28 Hider wrote:On December 12 2013 12:22 Plansix wrote:On December 12 2013 11:58 crms wrote:On December 12 2013 11:45 Plansix wrote:On December 12 2013 11:12 crms wrote:
After watching all the parts now and really trying to think about it objectively, this documentary is extremely poorly done and gives no real narrative. unless of course you consider, 'esports is cool, we moved to korea it was hard at first because 'money' an engaging story line.
I'm still wondering why it took so many years and so much money to release a few interviews from 3 different locations with ~4 different people.
Either the director is the biggest amateur hour noob on the planet or we've been duped.
I swear to christ with 0 experience in film making I could have come up with a better story board than this garbage. How about we get to see the locations of the casters hardships, go into detail about what they had to survive in the early days, why they felt they could make it, their reaction to the stardom they have now, I mean ANYTHING. I heard a more interesting story about Artosis from incontroL on state of the game about his mom kicking him out and him sleeping on cement or something.
My god, what a failure this film is, a complete and total failure. I hope this film does make it to NetFlix and I hope real film critics rip this junk to shreds. When you say we've been duped, you mean that you donated? Or are you voicing outrage on behalf of people that donated? duped in the sense that they made a lot of promises and talked this jeff guy up a !@#$%^&* load to be the real deal when he's clearly awful. maybe duped is the wrong word since so many people are talking about this being a 'scam', I don't think it was a cold-blooded scam to rip off esports, I think it was just a bad amateur film maker getting in over his head. I think that is a harsh lesson that Kickstarter teaches, that big ideas and results are two very different things. I think this guy had good intentions and a vision. And clearly it was a vision that enough people wanted. Its just that his ambition and vision never fully made it to film. Or as Jeff Green of the videogame world is fond of saying "Almost no one tries to make a bad game." I don't think this guy did anything wrong beyond fail to communicate with people. He wasn't trying to make a bad film. People took a risk with Kickstarter and it is up to them if it panned out for them or not. The rest of us got a movie and may or may not be something we like. As for the people who did not donate and are throwing around words like "scam", I don't know about them. This is the internet and people like to get really worked up about !@#$%^&*. I disagree - I definitely think he could have worked harder at providing the whole "show dont tell us"-concept. Had he spend just some time studying other succesfull documentaries he would have realized that. Honestly, I think a lot of the problems arisen from this documentary is based on him not working hard enough to improve his film-making skills over the last 2 years. Wait, you are disagreeing by saying he could have tried harder..... Anything else captain obvious? Are you implying he did nothing by taking money from the community and not really work hard enough? What the !@#$%^&* are you talking about? You keep making statements that have little to do with what I said. I didn't claim that he worked hard or not. My statement had to do with Kickstarter being a harsh mistress. I said that it was a decision each person who donated to the Kickstarter needed to make on their own if they felt what they got was worth what they paid. I don't have an opinion of how hard he worked, because I have ZERO information to go on. He could have worked super hard and not had the talent to back it up. I don't know and never will.
Relax a bit. I am merely quoting from your posts. You have some clear incosnitencies in your post.
For instance read what you wrote here;
I don't think this guy did anything wrong beyond fail to communicate with people
My point is that he did do sometihng wrong by not putting in the expected amount of hard work. From your post your implying he didn't do anything wrong besides communicating.
In the sjow-forum your in the one post directly saying you have nothing against Sjow, and your frustrations are directed at other terran players (a minority group). Then later on you indirectly admit your frustrations are related to Sjow only.
Please reread what your actually writing and consider improving your communication before getting angry at other people. Thanks in advance.
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On December 14 2013 12:27 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 12:20 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2013 12:09 Hider wrote:On December 12 2013 13:02 Plansix wrote:On December 12 2013 12:28 Hider wrote:On December 12 2013 12:22 Plansix wrote:On December 12 2013 11:58 crms wrote:On December 12 2013 11:45 Plansix wrote:On December 12 2013 11:12 crms wrote:
After watching all the parts now and really trying to think about it objectively, this documentary is extremely poorly done and gives no real narrative. unless of course you consider, 'esports is cool, we moved to korea it was hard at first because 'money' an engaging story line.
I'm still wondering why it took so many years and so much money to release a few interviews from 3 different locations with ~4 different people.
Either the director is the biggest amateur hour noob on the planet or we've been duped.
I swear to christ with 0 experience in film making I could have come up with a better story board than this garbage. How about we get to see the locations of the casters hardships, go into detail about what they had to survive in the early days, why they felt they could make it, their reaction to the stardom they have now, I mean ANYTHING. I heard a more interesting story about Artosis from incontroL on state of the game about his mom kicking him out and him sleeping on cement or something.
My god, what a failure this film is, a complete and total failure. I hope this film does make it to NetFlix and I hope real film critics rip this junk to shreds. When you say we've been duped, you mean that you donated? Or are you voicing outrage on behalf of people that donated? duped in the sense that they made a lot of promises and talked this jeff guy up a !@#$%^&* load to be the real deal when he's clearly awful. maybe duped is the wrong word since so many people are talking about this being a 'scam', I don't think it was a cold-blooded scam to rip off esports, I think it was just a bad amateur film maker getting in over his head. I think that is a harsh lesson that Kickstarter teaches, that big ideas and results are two very different things. I think this guy had good intentions and a vision. And clearly it was a vision that enough people wanted. Its just that his ambition and vision never fully made it to film. Or as Jeff Green of the videogame world is fond of saying "Almost no one tries to make a bad game." I don't think this guy did anything wrong beyond fail to communicate with people. He wasn't trying to make a bad film. People took a risk with Kickstarter and it is up to them if it panned out for them or not. The rest of us got a movie and may or may not be something we like. As for the people who did not donate and are throwing around words like "scam", I don't know about them. This is the internet and people like to get really worked up about !@#$%^&*. I disagree - I definitely think he could have worked harder at providing the whole "show dont tell us"-concept. Had he spend just some time studying other succesfull documentaries he would have realized that. Honestly, I think a lot of the problems arisen from this documentary is based on him not working hard enough to improve his film-making skills over the last 2 years. Wait, you are disagreeing by saying he could have tried harder..... Anything else captain obvious? Are you implying he did nothing by taking money from the community and not really work hard enough? What the !@#$%^&* are you talking about? You keep making statements that have little to do with what I said. I didn't claim that he worked hard or not. My statement had to do with Kickstarter being a harsh mistress. I said that it was a decision each person who donated to the Kickstarter needed to make on their own if they felt what they got was worth what they paid. I don't have an opinion of how hard he worked, because I have ZERO information to go on. He could have worked super hard and not had the talent to back it up. I don't know and never will. Relax a bit. I am merely quoting from your posts. You have some clear incosnitencies in your post. For instance read what you wrote here; Show nested quote + I don't think this guy did anything wrong beyond fail to communicate with people My point is that he did do sometihng wrong by not putting in the expected amount of hard work. From your post your implying he didn't do anything wrong besides communicating. In the sjow-forum your in the one post directly saying you have nothing against Sjow, and your frustrations are directed at other terran players (a minority group). Then later on you indirectly admit your frustrations are related to Sjow only. Please reread what your actually writing and consider improving your communication before getting angry at other people. Thanks in advance.
He didn't do anything "wrong" beyond deliver the film late and not communicate with people. Everything else is up to other peoples personal judgment and assessment. You may think he did not work hard enough, but that is just personal opinion based on how hard you feel he should have worked. It will not be the same for every person.
And if you are going to criticize peoples writing, you should spell inconsistencies correctly next time.
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I've been fairly entertained watching this, so I am not too upset. I can however understand why some people might be a bit troubled. But since I have donated nothing, I am fine. So it might be like getting a ride in your friends shitty car. I don't really care about the state of the car as long as I get to where I am going, and I did.
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On December 14 2013 13:02 Plansix wrote:
And if you are going to criticize peoples writing, you should spell inconsistencies correctly next time.
Possessive?
Quite hard in English - especially as an English guy 
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wow...loved the first part,, 2nd part was interesting. 3rd part WTF theres literally no conclusive ending.
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Is it done? Are we done? How many parts will sosc have? Somehow it came to my mind that there will be 6 parts, but i see nothing regarding that topic? And the fourth part would be behind time, as it somehow came to my mind that the parts airing weekly? I'm confused
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They said it would debut as episodic content over four weeks, so I also expected a fourth part somehow. I am wondering what is going on with that.
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On December 19 2013 14:46 Paragleiber wrote:
They said it would debut as episodic content over four weeks, so I also expected a fourth part somehow. I am wondering what is going on with that.
Will debut next Blizzcon or shortly after
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On December 19 2013 07:18 Striker.superfreunde wrote:
Is it done? Are we done? How many parts will sosc have? Somehow it came to my mind that there will be 6 parts, but i see nothing regarding that topic? And the fourth part would be behind time, as it somehow came to my mind that the parts airing weekly? I'm confused
I'm fairly sure it'll be four parts + q&a part with tastosis and the producer.
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On December 19 2013 14:46 Paragleiber wrote:
They said it would debut as episodic content over four weeks, so I also expected a fourth part somehow. I am wondering what is going on with that.
Welcome to the past two years of communication with Alejos, lots of wondering.
It will be interesting to see how watered down the Q&A part is. Given it is meant to be part of the documentary, I highly doubt we will get any real answers on why it took so long or why Alejos thought not communicating with his backers and the community was a good decision.
I wonder how long until Alejos does a Hearthstone doc following Artosis? A bunch of new suckers in that game to take advantage of.
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I liked it... 40k isn't much to live off WHILE creating a documentary. Some of the shots look like they were expensive to set up, then there's licensing fees, sound production, legal fees, travelling costs, whatever fees he has to pay his production team and that eats up 40k ezpz. I enjoyed it but I just don't think the documentary will be winning any awards any time soon. Why not follow Artosis and Tasteless on a typical day and tell the story through that rather than interviews? I think his skills as a documentary film maker just aren't that great and that's why many people feel let down. It's shot well, there's some thought put behind the production but it doesn't really tell a story, more like asks people to tell one.
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On January 03 2014 11:51 lannisport wrote:
I liked it... 40k isn't much to live off WHILE creating a documentary. Some of the shots look like they were expensive to set up, then there's licensing fees, sound production, legal fees, travelling costs, whatever fees he has to pay his production team and that eats up 40k ezpz. I enjoyed it but I just don't think the documentary will be winning any awards any time soon. Why not follow Artosis and Tasteless on a typical day and tell the story through that rather than interviews? I think his skills as a documentary film maker just aren't that great and that's why many people feel let down. It's shot well, there's some thought put behind the production but it doesn't really tell a story, more like asks people to tell one.
You weren't paying attention. He received more than 40k from his kickstarter, then ran a second paypal campaign which garnered significant attention (and an undisclosed amount of money), and despite that didn't do anything besides go to some events and point a camera at Tasteless and Artosis; the documentary is currently being made in 30 minute chunks that are released on Ongamers whenever they're finished.
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After an interesting Artosis episode, this one was pretty boring. Not that I expected anything really since there isn't really anything to tell in the episode.
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Wait a minute, was this the last episode?
EDIT: Welp, nope. Brainfart
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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United States97277 Posts
Thanks I'll add it to the OP
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I was really neutral about the documentary until now, but this episode was really just plain bad. And i have no clue about technical stuff, like editing or something, i am talking the shown content only.
During watching it, i asked myself:
What are they trying to convey?
That Tastesosis are "the greatest" caster duo in starcraft? Ok i knew that before.
Why do i feel sad while watching it?
No hype, almost no music, and if there is any it is sad elevator-style music, no original sound that matches the images, like in the stadiums etc. that would catch the atmosphere at those huge events.
Who the fuck are these people?
I consider myself an avid watcher of starcraft content, probably alot more than the average person does. And even i can't tell who this guy with the blue shirt and scarf is, or the swedish guy with the flimsy beard, and i also forgot who this asian guy with the ESPN shirt was...
Why is everything so vague?
If you agree to making a documentary about you, you should present some facts. They say they were very poor back then, fine. How well of are you now? Spill out some numbers, man. Show us your crib you have now.
There were more foreign people watching the GSL than Koreans? How many? Why were viewer numbers such a big secret, when GSL was GOMPlayer only?
Everything is so fluffed up, its boring as hell.
Why are they trying to overhype themselves?
This is the point that kinda buggs me the most. Everyone knows they are (were) the most entertaining casting duo. Why do they need to shove that in our faces sooo badly. The real performance is still done by the players. Artosis even says it in that episode, they work like 14 hours a day. If Tasteosis are the main drivers of eSports, as we get told like every minute from another person, why isn't the documentary showing how they put in the same 14 hours in taking rhetoric courses, rehearsing, studying games, playing themselves, etc. THAT would be what i am interessted in.
To sit in front of a camera and let some random people say "they worked sooo hard" is worthless.
What is the message of this whole documentary?
I really wished this to be a thing, i could show my girlfriend, my mom or any non-gaming person and it would let them understand why i spent so much time not playing, but watching some korean dudes play a video game.
But this does not even transport a tiny bit of that passion and sensation. So it fails in that department, and if i watch it, i get told things a already know, because i was there watching the streams back then.
For example, we know Artosis has a wife and a kid. What i would like to know is, how does he juggle family business and all that travelling and beeing away from home?
It becomes so obvious that both Dan and Nick said: Okay, you can do a documentary about us, but no private stuff, no negative stuff, no facts, just show our on-camera personalities. Too bad, that is not how documentaries work and too bad that you don't even come across like human beeings that way.
In the end, i am kicking a dead horse here.
This whole thing is just disappointing.
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On January 06 2014 00:22 reapsen wrote:
There were more foreign people watching the GSL than Koreans? How many? Why were viewer numbers such a big secret, when GSL was GOMPlayer only?
Everything is so fluffed up, its boring as hell.
Yeah, it's really beating a dead horse as you said but I also have to agree with you. However, if they made a genuine documentary instead of this image film as you suggested, it would be more of a disheartening thing to watch than anything else I think. Don't get me wrong, I would have prefered a real documentary that documents facts a thousand times over this, but doing something like that would take a lot of balls from whoever produces it. Because the real, defluffed storyline here would be things like the decline in viewership and the fact that the Korean audience never thought SC2 was close to a worthy succesor to BW, Tastosis being in some sort of identity crisis where the once most beloved casters of all of SC2 are regularly being pitchforked on community sites for lack of passion, broken promises, branching out into other games etc...
Who would want to produce such a thing?
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On January 06 2014 00:22 reapsen wrote:
I was really neutral about the documentary until now, but this episode was really just plain bad. And i have no clue about technical stuff, like editing or something, i am talking the shown content only.
During watching it, i asked myself:
What are they trying to convey?
That Tastesosis are "the greatest" caster duo in starcraft? Ok i knew that before.
Why do i feel sad while watching it?
No hype, almost no music, and if there is any it is sad elevator-style music, no original sound that matches the images, like in the stadiums etc. that would catch the atmosphere at those huge events.
Who the fuck are these people?
I consider myself an avid watcher of starcraft content, probably alot more than the average person does. And even i can't tell who this guy with the blue shirt and scarf is, or the swedish guy with the flimsy beard, and i also forgot who this asian guy with the ESPN shirt was...
Why is everything so vague?
If you agree to making a documentary about you, you should present some facts. They say they were very poor back then, fine. How well of are you now? Spill out some numbers, man. Show us your crib you have now.
There were more foreign people watching the GSL than Koreans? How many? Why were viewer numbers such a big secret, when GSL was GOMPlayer only?
Everything is so fluffed up, its boring as hell.
Why are they trying to overhype themselves?
This is the point that kinda buggs me the most. Everyone knows they are (were) the most entertaining casting duo. Why do they need to shove that in our faces sooo badly. The real performance is still done by the players. Artosis even says it in that episode, they work like 14 hours a day. If Tasteosis are the main drivers of eSports, as we get told like every minute from another person, why isn't the documentary showing how they put in the same 14 hours in taking rhetoric courses, rehearsing, studying games, playing themselves, etc. THAT would be what i am interessted in.
To sit in front of a camera and let some random people say "they worked sooo hard" is worthless.
What is the message of this whole documentary?
I really wished this to be a thing, i could show my girlfriend, my mom or any non-gaming person and it would let them understand why i spent so much time not playing, but watching some korean dudes play a video game.
But this does not even transport a tiny bit of that passion and sensation. So it fails in that department, and if i watch it, i get told things a already know, because i was there watching the streams back then.
For example, we know Artosis has a wife and a kid. What i would like to know is, how does he juggle family business and all that travelling and beeing away from home?
It becomes so obvious that both Dan and Nick said: Okay, you can do a documentary about us, but no private stuff, no negative stuff, no facts, just show our on-camera personalities. Too bad, that is not how documentaries work and too bad that you don't even come across like human beeings that way.
In the end, i am kicking a dead horse here.
This whole thing is just disappointing.
Great post.
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EPT
