EPTTL Mafia XXII - Page 44
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Scaramanga
Australia8093 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On April 20 2010 10:46 Incognito wrote: [/spoiler]Um actually yeah, if I read that correctly, I think it is pretty anti-town and warranting suspicion. Wanting to exclude all the pre-day 2 information is hugely ridiculous. If you don't think there's anything here to analyze, then something is wrong with you. This seems like an invitation to cover up information that the mafia doesn't want to be found. I don't think he was trying to exclude the day 1 info, just pospone making accusations based on it until day 2. A problem for me right now, is that most of the accusations going around are based on " x played like this before, so I think he's suspicious because now he's playing like this". These arguments might be great, but for all the new players they're a bit worthless. Yes I could go read the other games(of which I have a bit) to try and analyze posting habits, but obviously that's a huge time investment. I'm not 100% sure what I should be posting right now. We have a bunch of posts, some which seem fishy and some not, but I simply don't have enough of a background with either the players or the game to know who really stands out. I have a list of fishy seeming players, but I doubt my analysis is particularly bang on at this point. I'm sure this is true for most of the new players in the game. The fact is, If you're town and you're a veteren, you need to really be pitching in at this point(thanks incognito) because as far as I can tell, this is the most difficult time of the game to make decisions. Caller, instead of throwing up your hands in frustration, patiently explain why we gain little or no information from lynching jpak, and explain what the better move was. Ace you may be bored and wishing for a more insightful game, but it seems like you gave up less than halfway into day 1. If you were expecting award-winning posts from a game with a large percentage of newbies, you're gonna have to step up yourself. You're only making things worse by spamming and derailing. I realize that there's no real substance in my post as far as analysis goes, so feel free to ignore my post, and instead respond with some award-winning analysis. Wow, the automated archive is amazing | ||
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d3_crescentia
United States4054 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
I'm spending this time typing this out when I should be studying, so I'd like it if people read this. TL Mafia, while it attracts its share of regulars and repeat players, does seem to have some sort of retention rate problem due to there being... animosity between players. Some players will refuse to play in a game if certain people are playing in it, people PM hosts (I've gotten some of these) requesting permission (wtf?) to flame others in thread. As Qatol has stated to me, "TL Mafia has a lot of hidden politics," or something to that effect because I don't have the time to go find the chat. Point in case is that because of a lot of the flaming, badmouthing, whatever you want to call it, people don't come back to games. And this is why in my games I'm trying to keep it... civil. Though it seems like I'm failing. Due to kind of having a life, I'm not able to spend agonizing amounts of time watching everybody's posts like a hawk, and some stuff may have slipped beneath me. However, I cannot miss when people directly complain to me about other players, and I've gotten the PMs, the AIM/MSN chats, and that sort of good stuff. I've gotten complaints now against a few players now, and I've tried to deal with them as I see fit. I'm going to try to deal with all cases of 'aggravated posting', but it's hard to get to every post, especially since most things are spammed off the pages. I've been trying to just deal with things when people directly bring them to my sight, and I'm going to have to add another person to this list. Ace, I already sent you a PM about it, but you should manner up a bit. There's no need for the elitist attitude, which turns off many of the newer players, because this game does have a lot of them. Not all of us start off with the game sense and knowledge that by now for you should be intrinsic. As for Scaramanga, Qatol has talked to him and he's agreed to shape up, but for parity's sake here is the thread mentioning. Point being is, I guess it's my fault for not keeping up with everything. I've been mostly focused on Jugan because it keeps getting brought to my attention, one way or another. From now on then, if you have a problem with anybody or anybody's posts (in this game), please let me know as soon as possible through PM and I'll deal with it. Please stop cluttering the thread with the flaming. Heh, it's getting quite hard to 'moderate' these games, especially when it seems I can't do anything about it. Reading Jugan's last post (directly against me) makes me feel sick, and even though Hobbes is a nice enough person to not take offense, I've gotten a lot of complaints against other aggressive posters (in different games, obviously) when they used the same style of abrasive posting style. I've already told you, Jugan: if you have a problem, please PM me about it, a point you've chosen to ignore again. I already warned you that you'd be modkilled, and I do have actually preventative measures if things do get out of control. I'm going to say again, talk to me in private with your problems, and keep the mafia game as a mafia game. The same goes to the rest of you. 40+ pages in the first day is nice, but it's hard to go back and read through them when a lot of it involves... eh. I'm trying, guys, though I don't know how much good it's going to come down to. Just give me some time. | ||
RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
On April 20 2010 21:39 d3_crescentia wrote: Quick pre-work post; probably won't be able to post that much until late. It's a good point in time to collect our suspicions and accusations so we can prioritize DT checks. We can check RaGe since we've got a lot of people pointing the finger of suspicion at him currently. Then there's others that have been pointed out like Osmoses or unexplained voters like love1another etc. but checking them probably won't give us any substantial information. Also... Zona's been noticeably absent, though he's probably been busy programming - I'd like to see his thoughts on the situation. Well I propose if you role check me you get an official count of who's still suspicious of me, since a lot of people are refuting the claims against me now. At least that way you can be sure that people really want a rolecheck on me, and maybe we could get some clues from the arguments surrounding my proposition if it does happen and we get a list. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On April 20 2010 23:48 RaGe wrote: Well I propose if you role check me you get an official count of who's still suspicious of me, since a lot of people are refuting the claims against me now. At least that way you can be sure that people really want a rolecheck on me, and maybe we could get some clues from the arguments surrounding my proposition if it does happen and we get a list. Rage you have failed to explain any of my concerns that I have of you, each of which individual may be circumstantial but together are quite damning. Consider that: a) you type very cautiously and use words like town which, although neutral, give me the impression that you are trying not to be suspicious. b) you advocate not doing discussion on day 1, when in fact day 1 discussions are absolutely critical for further analysis. The only reason why you would want to shut down day 1 discussion (aside from forcing a lynch on a member of town, anyways) is because you want to hide or create a hiding ground for some of the inactives. It also creates less evidence: consider that mafia have a certain chance of slipping up. It only follows that the more a mafia talks the greater the chance that in one of his posts he will slip up. There's no reason to not encourage discussion, as the more townies talk the more choices mafia will have to shoot at tonight. This is especially true for mad hatters and veterans, who should be constantly being pro-town and trying to draw hits. c) you haven't actually contributed anything despite the fact that you've read the thread and had time to do so d) you nonetheless play the whole voice of reason card, which is something that Shinbi-chan did in the WaW game that although made him extremely pro-town served to hide his mafia intentions. e) You haven't responded to any of the accusations other than by saying "well nobody has said anything" or "my accusers have all backed down," or by saying someone who has criticized you on random grounds as being Is this really what you're going to do all mafia game? Call people out, offer no reasoning and when people call you out you either whine about being always accused or go "yeah just lynch me i'll be green". f) Anybody who plays the "town order and plan" card is suspicious because that is what I ALWAYS do when I'm mafia. Please respond promptly. | ||
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RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
On April 21 2010 00:37 Caller wrote: Rage you have failed to explain any of my concerns that I have of you, each of which individual may be circumstantial but together are quite damning. Ok I'll address every point Consider that: a) you type very cautiously and use words like town which, although neutral, give me the impression that you are trying not to be suspicious. Uhm.. well.. sorry for my word usage? b) you advocate not doing discussion on day 1, when in fact day 1 discussions are absolutely critical for further analysis. The only reason why you would want to shut down day 1 discussion (aside from forcing a lynch on a member of town, anyways) is because you want to hide or create a hiding ground for some of the inactives. It also creates less evidence: consider that mafia have a certain chance of slipping up. It only follows that the more a mafia talks the greater the chance that in one of his posts he will slip up. There's no reason to not encourage discussion, as the more townies talk the more choices mafia will have to shoot at tonight. This is especially true for mad hatters and veterans, who should be constantly being pro-town and trying to draw hits. This 'issue' with my plan was addressed earlier too, by other people than myself. I never wanted to ban discussion on day 1, just accusations. The reason? The thread was going to shit. I understand that previous Mafia game trends are an important clue on figuring out why someone is reacting the way they do. Or that some weird behaviour might make it more likely that someone is Mafia. However, my main point was that we would never, ever get enough votes for a lynch based on that, nor would it be a good idea considering the weak arguments and overly defensive (YOU CALL ME MAFIA? NO U MAFIA LOL) posts. I made that first post because I was afraid our first day lynch would get wasted, despite there being plenty of inactive, viable, easy targets. c) you haven't actually contributed anything despite the fact that you've read the thread and had time to do so I've spent all the time I had reading this thread yesterday. I did not have a lot of free time to write up super long analysis. (Zatic was still in belgium on sunday, worked on a project till 6PM yesterday and went out later that night) d) you nonetheless play the whole voice of reason card, which is something that Shinbi-chan did in the WaW game that although made him extremely pro-town served to hide his mafia intentions. Really? Because someone wrote in a similar way and he turned out Mafia in a game I wasn't even involved in, it's a reason for suspicion? I'm pretty sure there's been some random Mafia game all over the world where someone called a voice of reason out the way you just did and he was Mafia too... No offense, but how this is even an argument you want an answer on is beyond me. e) You haven't responded to any of the accusations other than by saying "well nobody has said anything" or "my accusers have all backed down," or by saying someone who has criticized you on random grounds as being Because I actually believed that was the case. 3 separate people tried to correct my last accuser, saying that he misinterpreted my post, which he did. But yeah, I understand this comes across as inconsistent and that's why I replied to this post, trying to clarify everything. f) Anybody who plays the "town order and plan" card is suspicious because that is what I ALWAYS do when I'm mafia. Read d) and hopefully start to realize why I wanted to banish this type of argument for day 1. Terrible logic. Please respond promptly.  | ||
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RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On April 20 2010 16:13 BloodyC0bbler wrote: First game that comes to mind would be folca vs ace in mafia III where folca claimed dt and checked ace claiming ace was red. Ace then argued how day 1 you always lynch the accuser. He has advocated this stance many many many times. He has also gone after people for day 1 roleclaims. Anyone who roleclaims day 1 should be strongly argued with, as they can't get away scott free with their claim so on and so forth. If it helps, I don't truely believe hes a dt, and instead enjoy reading his post for subtle hints. I agree that he is not likely to be a DT, however I think they are referring to when vivi got railroaded in micro mafia I and at the end of day one he claimed medic and we lynched a medic, then the mafia killed our DT. Then Ace managed to convince everyone to kill Citizen somehow. | ||
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
Consider the facts: every single piece of evidence I tossed at RaGe was flimsy and easily torn apart by simple, reasonable, logic. In fact look at my post history: Let's say RaGe is pro-town. Thus he would consider his ideas to be pro-town as well. Thus, anybody that goes against his ideas would be considered anti-town and thus a lynch candidate, or they're a stupid townie. Despite reality and statistics, people generally consider me a good player, so they automatically remove me from the idea of "stupid townie" even though that is usually my role. Thus the only apparent choice is that I'm anti-town and should therefore be lynched. This is especially because if RaGe truly was pro-town, and I not only go against him but accuse him with basically nonsense and nulltells, that this means that clearly I am mafia and he should advocate for my lynch. But we already know that several people consider me to be pro-town despite my complete lack of intelligible contributions. Going after me may be risky, especially because it draws attention to yourself. Now what would a townie think? a) who cares if I die, I have no role anyways, might as well go after Caller b/c he might be mafia godfather or smth!!!!oneoneone or b) this is too risky, if I die I might give too much information away, better to play it safe Remember what I said about how town and mafia play? Most inexperienced mafia tend to play it safe when they can. For instance, notice how Ace (before he went trollcore) was willing to put (well, not himself) but a lot of effort and also draw attention to himself (by the way he still hasn't analyzed my posts, can I pay money for that?) when he accused me. I defended myself, but anyone can see that I instinctively concluded that because he disagreed with me, and I'm pro-town, and he's an intelligent player, that therefore he must be anti-town. Everybody does this when faced with an accusation that's flimsy. Everybody. Even the most experienced players tend to get pissed off when this is the case. Yet what does RaGe do? He calmly dismantles my argument and then proceeds to pretend like I've done nothing wrong, aside from going against everything he thinks is pro-town (promoting unity or whatever horsehydro-evacuatedremainder he mentions of being pro-town. He himself has mentioned how he hasn't played in a while, so he's probably not pulling something sneaky here. And yet he proceeds to assume that I'm town, because he doesn't go after me at all and is like "you have a few reasonable points, etc." Why would anybody in their right mind do this? Look what even Jugen did when I accused him. He proceeded to burst a blood vessel in his criticism of me, even though it was pretty inarticulate and didn't really do anything to my credibility. Yet RaGe just kind of pretends it doesn't happen without any sort of retaliation. Unless you're the gosuest townie in the world, I think it's pretty easy to conclude what RaGe's true affiliation is. Please, regardless of who dies tonight, check this man out. | ||
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
On April 21 2010 03:01 Caller wrote: Look what even Jugen did when I accused him. He proceeded to burst a blood vessel in his criticism of me. I don't recall criticizing you, but i'll take your word for it. | ||
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RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
On April 21 2010 03:01 Caller wrote: Rage, congratulations, you just confirmed my suspicions of you as mafia. Consider the facts: every single piece of evidence I tossed at RaGe was flimsy and easily torn apart by simple, reasonable, logic. In fact look at my post history: Let's say RaGe is pro-town. Thus he would consider his ideas to be pro-town as well. Thus, anybody that goes against his ideas would be considered anti-town and thus a lynch candidate, or they're a stupid townie. Despite reality and statistics, people generally consider me a good player, so they automatically remove me from the idea of "stupid townie" even though that is usually my role. Thus the only apparent choice is that I'm anti-town and should therefore be lynched. This is especially because if RaGe truly was pro-town, and I not only go against him but accuse him with basically nonsense and nulltells, that this means that clearly I am mafia and he should advocate for my lynch. But we already know that several people consider me to be pro-town despite my complete lack of intelligible contributions. Going after me may be risky, especially because it draws attention to yourself. Now what would a townie think? a) who cares if I die, I have no role anyways, might as well go after Caller b/c he might be mafia godfather or smth!!!!oneoneone or b) this is too risky, if I die I might give too much information away, better to play it safe Remember what I said about how town and mafia play? Most inexperienced mafia tend to play it safe when they can. For instance, notice how Ace (before he went trollcore) was willing to put (well, not himself) but a lot of effort and also draw attention to himself (by the way he still hasn't analyzed my posts, can I pay money for that?) when he accused me. I defended myself, but anyone can see that I instinctively concluded that because he disagreed with me, and I'm pro-town, and he's an intelligent player, that therefore he must be anti-town. Everybody does this when faced with an accusation that's flimsy. Everybody. Even the most experienced players tend to get pissed off when this is the case. Yet what does RaGe do? He calmly dismantles my argument and then proceeds to pretend like I've done nothing wrong, aside from going against everything he thinks is pro-town (promoting unity or whatever horsehydro-evacuatedremainder he mentions of being pro-town. He himself has mentioned how he hasn't played in a while, so he's probably not pulling something sneaky here. And yet he proceeds to assume that I'm town, because he doesn't go after me at all and is like "you have a few reasonable points, etc." Why would anybody in their right mind do this? Look what even Jugen did when I accused him. He proceeded to burst a blood vessel in his criticism of me, even though it was pretty inarticulate and didn't really do anything to my credibility. Yet RaGe just kind of pretends it doesn't happen without any sort of retaliation. Unless you're the gosuest townie in the world, I think it's pretty easy to conclude what RaGe's true affiliation is. Please, regardless of who dies tonight, check this man out. lmao are you serious | ||
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
Yeah man, your name is RAGE. What kind of person named RAGE gives a well thought out post and dismantles and argument???? | ||
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
ofc im serious everytime i make a wall of text im cereal | ||
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just a little something for those to think on.
