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On August 30 2011 12:06 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 11:32 jdseemoreglass wrote:On August 30 2011 10:49 qrs wrote:On August 30 2011 10:09 jdseemoreglass wrote:On August 30 2011 09:42 qrs wrote:On August 30 2011 09:25 jdseemoreglass wrote:Black doesn't have to play + Show Spoiler +6. ... Ne4, and we don't have to respond with 7. O-O. Even if those two moves are both played, black doesn't have to play 7. ... dxc3, and even if he does, we don't have to play 8. Qe5. We are putting a lot of our focus on a line that's only a remote possibility, and honestly I think both sides have better moves along the way. I say we cross that bridge when we get to it. 3 days is certainly enough time to look at any move black can throw at us. Half-agreed. We should be looking for our best line, if Black plays the best moves we can find for him, so it doesn't help to say "Black doesn't have to play X or Y"--the question is if Black plays these moves, do we have a good answer? I think the more relevant part of your post is "we don't have to respond with ___", which is true, but in that case, someone should take a look at our other options. Sure, 3 days gives us enough time to look at any move Black can throw at us--so long as there's a good move out there for us to find. I think that dialectic is a pretty good method of analysis. If you want to steer the discussion to what you think is a more worthwhile line to look at, all you have to do is point to the move that improves on the line at hand and the discussion will move that way. edit: I think I see where you were coming from now. The part I didn't make clear is that I'm not convinced that we should play 6. e5, unless the third option after + Show Spoiler +is more promising than the first two. + Show Spoiler +Well, if black did play 6. ... Ne4, I would argue in favor of 7. cxd4 as our best move, followed by 7. ... Bc4+ 8. Nbd2.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JzPoo.png) With an example of a solid continuation being: 8. ... O-O 9. O-O a6 10. Ba4 d5 11. a3![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/F1R01.png) OK, this is interesting. I didn't give it much attention at first, because we're letting Black put a lot of pressure on us in the short term, but maybe you're right and that pressure just evaporates in a couple of moves. I looked at your line, and I have two comments. On the one hand, unless I'm missing something, the example of a solid continuation that you offer seems to actually drop a pawn for Black. + Show Spoiler +After 6. e5 Ne4 7. cxd4 Bb4+ 8. Nbd2 O-O 9. O-O, I don't think Black has the time to play 9...a6. If he does, 10. BxN NxN 11. Bxb7 wins us a pawn, if I'm not mistaken. If anything, that makes the line look better for us, of course, but I'm concerned about a different Black move: + Show Spoiler [8...] +Our opponent's namesake: Ng5! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zjRAX.png) It looks odd for Black to be spending yet another move on his Knight, when he's still behind in development, but there's a method to the madness: he's trying to press the advantage of White's temporary immobility, with the Nd2 pinned and blocking the Bishop and Queen. The threat here is to the momentarily vulnerable d-pawn that's holding down the center for us. Our Nf3 is its only defender right now, and Ng5 takes aim at that. Black is threatening to win material here. How do you proceed for White? + Show Spoiler +5. e5 Ne4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nbd2 Ng5In the position you cited, we simply have to castle. 8. Nbd2 Ng5 9. O-O![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bcWzP.png) No matter how black follows up now, we end up with a solid lead in development and space. For example: If 9. ... Nxf3, we simply recapture with out knight, 10. Nxf3.If 9. ... Bxd2, we play 10. Bxd2 Nxf3+ 11. Qxe3.Here, if black tries grabbing the pawn, 11. ... Nxd4, we have the very strong move 12. Qg3!![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9fcPd.png) If 12. ... Nxb5?, we play 13. Qxg7 Rf8 14. Bg5, winning the queen, or mating. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CxMLy.png) If 12. ... O-O, then 13. Bg5 Qe8 14. Bd3 opens up too many threats ( Qh4, Bxh7, Bf6, etc.) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Cbame.png) If 12. ... Ne6, then 13. f4, and we are already storming toward the king-side. If 12. ... Nf5, we play 13. Qg4. The knight can't be defended by the bishop because of the pinned pawn, and 13. ... d6 loses the queen to 14. Bg5. Black's best move here, I think is 12. Kf8, which concedes too much in exchange for the pawn. Wow, thanks for such a thorough analysis! You give several interesting lines to look through, and it will take me a bit of time, but just a small point to clear out of the way: in your last spoiler: + Show Spoiler +If 12. ... Nf5, we play 13. Qg4. The knight can't be defended by the bishop because of the pinned pawn, and 13. ... d6 loses the queen to 14. Bg5. I assume you meant 13...g6, correct? Also, it doesn't technically lose the Queen, since Black can block with Ne7. It's still an absolutely hideous situation for Black, of course.
Yes, you are right on both counts. I admit I sped through that variation because it looked so weak 
Here is a consolidation of all the lines I have analyzed up to the current move:
+ Show Spoiler +
A closer look at the second line above:
+ Show Spoiler +If black did play 6. ... Ne4, I would argue in favor of 7. cxd4 as our best move, followed by 7. ... Bc4+ 8. Nbd2.With an example of a solid continuation being: 8. ... O-O 9. O-O a6 10. Ba4 d5 11. a35. e5 Ne4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nbd2 Ng5In the position you cited, we simply have to castle. 8. Nbd2 Ng5 9. O-ONo matter how black follows up now, we end up with a solid lead in development and space. For example: If 9. ... Nxf3, we simply recapture with out knight, 10. Nxf3.If 9. ... Bxd2, we play 10. Bxd2 Nxf3+ 11. Qxe3.Here, if black tries grabbing the pawn, 11. ... Nxd4, we have the very strong move 12. Qg3!If 12. ... Nxb5?, we play 13. Qxg7 Rf8 14. Bg5, winning the queen, or mating. If 12. ... O-O, then 13. Bg5 Qe8 14. Bd3 opens up too many threats ( Qh4, Bxh7, Bf6, etc.) If 12. ... Ne6, then 13. f4, and we are already storming toward the king-side. If 12. ... Nf5, we play 13. Qg4. The knight can't be defended by the bishop because of the pinned pawn, and 13. ... g6 is followed by 14. Bg5Black's best move here, I think is 12. Kf8, which concedes too much in exchange for the pawn.
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On August 30 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 12:06 qrs wrote:I'm concerned about a different Black move: + Show Spoiler [8...] +Our opponent's namesake: Ng5! It looks odd for Black to be spending yet another move on his Knight, when he's still behind in development, but there's a method to the madness: he's trying to press the advantage of White's temporary immobility, with the Nd2 pinned and blocking the Bishop and Queen. The threat here is to the momentarily vulnerable d-pawn that's holding down the center for us. Our Nf3 is its only defender right now, and Ng5 takes aim at that. Black is threatening to win material here. How do you proceed for White? + Show Spoiler +5. e5 Ne4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nbd2 Ng5A closer look at the second line above: In the position you cited, we simply have to castle. 8. Nbd2 Ng5 9. O-ONo matter how black follows up now, we end up with a solid lead in development and space. ... If 9. ... Bxd2, we play 10. Bxd2 Nxf3+ 11. Qxe3.Here, if black tries grabbing the pawn, 11. ... Nxd4, we have the very strong move 12. Qg3!If 12. ... Nxb5?, we play 13. Qxg7 Rf8 14. Bg5, winning the queen, or mating. If 12. ... O-O, then 13. Bg5 Qe8 14. Bd3 opens up too many threats ( Qh4, Bxh7, Bf6, etc.) If 12. ... Ne6, then 13. f4, and we are already storming toward the king-side. If 12. ... Nf5, we play 13. Qg4. The knight can't be defended by the bishop because of the pinned pawn, and 13. ... g6 is followed by 14. Bg5Black's best move here, I think is 12. Kf8, which concedes too much in exchange for the pawn. You're right, my plan for Black was + Show Spoiler +9. ... Bxd2 10. Bxd2 Nxf3+ 11. Qxe3 Nxd4
I just spent the last hour going carefully through all of your different lines, looking for some resource for Black, but I have to admit defeat. In each line, we end with a dominant position. I no longer think that the 8th move I suggested for Black is any good, and I no longer think that the Black reply + Show Spoiler + is something to be feared.
Thanks for the good analysis! The next time I post a summary, I'll update with the gist of your findings here.
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
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Votes
6. e5: 22 (hype[NZ], Bill Murray, Raysalis, jdseemoreglass, keyStorm, Malli, chesshaha, Malinor, EnderSword, LaXerCannon, pburns, shackes, Jumbled, EvilNalu, Boozerr, enigmaticcam, tyr, aphorism, itsjustatank, zasta, Chezus, wizard1944, wuBu, Varpulis, Sandwhale, Blazinghand, Shootist)
6. Bxc6: 1 (qrs)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pkHuf.png)
Not much point in a summary: this is a one-horse race. If you want one anyway, there's one on page 40. Not much has changed since then, except that jdseemoreglass has shown that we have good alternatives to + Show Spoiler +sacrificing a pawn after 6. e5 Ne4
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On August 30 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 12:06 qrs wrote:On August 30 2011 11:32 jdseemoreglass wrote:On August 30 2011 10:49 qrs wrote:On August 30 2011 10:09 jdseemoreglass wrote:On August 30 2011 09:42 qrs wrote:On August 30 2011 09:25 jdseemoreglass wrote:Black doesn't have to play + Show Spoiler +6. ... Ne4, and we don't have to respond with 7. O-O. Even if those two moves are both played, black doesn't have to play 7. ... dxc3, and even if he does, we don't have to play 8. Qe5. We are putting a lot of our focus on a line that's only a remote possibility, and honestly I think both sides have better moves along the way. I say we cross that bridge when we get to it. 3 days is certainly enough time to look at any move black can throw at us. Half-agreed. We should be looking for our best line, if Black plays the best moves we can find for him, so it doesn't help to say "Black doesn't have to play X or Y"--the question is if Black plays these moves, do we have a good answer? I think the more relevant part of your post is "we don't have to respond with ___", which is true, but in that case, someone should take a look at our other options. Sure, 3 days gives us enough time to look at any move Black can throw at us--so long as there's a good move out there for us to find. I think that dialectic is a pretty good method of analysis. If you want to steer the discussion to what you think is a more worthwhile line to look at, all you have to do is point to the move that improves on the line at hand and the discussion will move that way. edit: I think I see where you were coming from now. The part I didn't make clear is that I'm not convinced that we should play 6. e5, unless the third option after + Show Spoiler +is more promising than the first two. + Show Spoiler +Well, if black did play 6. ... Ne4, I would argue in favor of 7. cxd4 as our best move, followed by 7. ... Bc4+ 8. Nbd2.With an example of a solid continuation being: 8. ... O-O 9. O-O a6 10. Ba4 d5 11. a3 OK, this is interesting. I didn't give it much attention at first, because we're letting Black put a lot of pressure on us in the short term, but maybe you're right and that pressure just evaporates in a couple of moves. I looked at your line, and I have two comments. On the one hand, unless I'm missing something, the example of a solid continuation that you offer seems to actually drop a pawn for Black. + Show Spoiler +After 6. e5 Ne4 7. cxd4 Bb4+ 8. Nbd2 O-O 9. O-O, I don't think Black has the time to play 9...a6. If he does, 10. BxN NxN 11. Bxb7 wins us a pawn, if I'm not mistaken. If anything, that makes the line look better for us, of course, but I'm concerned about a different Black move: + Show Spoiler [8...] +Our opponent's namesake: Ng5! It looks odd for Black to be spending yet another move on his Knight, when he's still behind in development, but there's a method to the madness: he's trying to press the advantage of White's temporary immobility, with the Nd2 pinned and blocking the Bishop and Queen. The threat here is to the momentarily vulnerable d-pawn that's holding down the center for us. Our Nf3 is its only defender right now, and Ng5 takes aim at that. Black is threatening to win material here. How do you proceed for White? + Show Spoiler +5. e5 Ne4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nbd2 Ng5In the position you cited, we simply have to castle. 8. Nbd2 Ng5 9. O-ONo matter how black follows up now, we end up with a solid lead in development and space. For example: If 9. ... Nxf3, we simply recapture with out knight, 10. Nxf3.If 9. ... Bxd2, we play 10. Bxd2 Nxf3+ 11. Qxe3.Here, if black tries grabbing the pawn, 11. ... Nxd4, we have the very strong move 12. Qg3!If 12. ... Nxb5?, we play 13. Qxg7 Rf8 14. Bg5, winning the queen, or mating. If 12. ... O-O, then 13. Bg5 Qe8 14. Bd3 opens up too many threats ( Qh4, Bxh7, Bf6, etc.) If 12. ... Ne6, then 13. f4, and we are already storming toward the king-side. If 12. ... Nf5, we play 13. Qg4. The knight can't be defended by the bishop because of the pinned pawn, and 13. ... d6 loses the queen to 14. Bg5. Black's best move here, I think is 12. Kf8, which concedes too much in exchange for the pawn. Wow, thanks for such a thorough analysis! You give several interesting lines to look through, and it will take me a bit of time, but just a small point to clear out of the way: in your last spoiler: + Show Spoiler +If 12. ... Nf5, we play 13. Qg4. The knight can't be defended by the bishop because of the pinned pawn, and 13. ... d6 loses the queen to 14. Bg5. I assume you meant 13...g6, correct? Also, it doesn't technically lose the Queen, since Black can block with Ne7. It's still an absolutely hideous situation for Black, of course. Yes, you are right on both counts. I admit I sped through that variation because it looked so weak Here is a consolidation of all the lines I have analyzed up to the current move: + Show Spoiler +A closer look at the second line above: + Show Spoiler +If black did play 6. ... Ne4, I would argue in favor of 7. cxd4 as our best move, followed by 7. ... Bc4+ 8. Nbd2.With an example of a solid continuation being: 8. ... O-O 9. O-O a6 10. Ba4 d5 11. a35. e5 Ne4 6. cxd4 Bb4+ 7. Nbd2 Ng5In the position you cited, we simply have to castle. 8. Nbd2 Ng5 9. O-ONo matter how black follows up now, we end up with a solid lead in development and space. For example: If 9. ... Nxf3, we simply recapture with out knight, 10. Nxf3.If 9. ... Bxd2, we play 10. Bxd2 Nxf3+ 11. Qxe3.Here, if black tries grabbing the pawn, 11. ... Nxd4, we have the very strong move 12. Qg3!If 12. ... Nxb5?, we play 13. Qxg7 Rf8 14. Bg5, winning the queen, or mating. If 12. ... O-O, then 13. Bg5 Qe8 14. Bd3 opens up too many threats ( Qh4, Bxh7, Bf6, etc.) If 12. ... Ne6, then 13. f4, and we are already storming toward the king-side. If 12. ... Nf5, we play 13. Qg4. The knight can't be defended by the bishop because of the pinned pawn, and 13. ... g6 is followed by 14. Bg5Black's best move here, I think is 12. Kf8, which concedes too much in exchange for the pawn.
+ Show Spoiler +
Thanks for the really detail analysis! i still think 7. O-O was better than 7. cxd4 since after something like:
7.O-O O-O 8. cxd4 Bb6 the position looks extremely good for white with many promising moves such as d5 (although i still need to show qrs that white is also much better after 7. ...dxc3, i still thing white is much better there grrrr :p)
Originally i also thought that 7.cxd4 was very strong for white since white have the centre and 2 bishops after (the line you give and other similar lines)
7. cxd4 Bc4+ 8. Nbd2 O-O 9. O-O a6 10. Ba4 d5 11. a3 but i found a game in my database that goes 11. ...Bxd2 12.Bd2 Bg4 13.Be3 f6 which seems to solve black opening problems as white cant keep his centre.
maybe something like 11.Bxc6 is better for white and white have a clear plan of attacking blacks weak pawns on the queenside
another idea is 11. exd6 follow by 11....Nxd2 12. Bxd2 Bxd6 and white is probably better after Bxc6 because of blacks weak pawns although i am not sure whether this is enough for white to win
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On August 31 2011 01:45 Bill Murray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +What if he does Qe7 next? Well, I think a reasonable option there would be + Show Spoiler +7. Bxc6 removing a defender and all that. Since he's played ...Qe7, the reply ...dxc6 is slightly less strong than it is in other lines, as it doesn't open lines for the Queen anymore.
But the best response is probably + Show Spoiler +7. 0-0. This keeps all the pressure on Black as before, without giving him any of the tactical options that he had while our King was still in the open. If he grabs the pawn with 7...NxP, then 8. NxP QxN 9. Re1 Ne4 and I don't think that Black will be able to keep his Knight.
Edit: actually, although it looks bad for Black, in practical tactical terms I can't find the way to force through what looked like an advantage for us in the position at the end of the second line.
Perhaps the first option is best after all.
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On August 31 2011 01:56 qrs wrote:Well, I think a reasonable option there would be + Show Spoiler +7. Bxc6 removing a defender and all that. Since he's played ...Qe7, the reply ...dxc6 is slightly less strong than it is in other lines, as it doesn't open lines for the Queen anymore. But the best response is probably + Show Spoiler +7. 0-0. This keeps all the pressure on Black as before, without giving him any of the tactical options that he had while our King was still in the open. If he grabs the pawn with 7...NxP, then 8. NxP QxN 9. Re1 Ne4 and I don't think that Black will be able to keep his Knight. Edit: actually, although it looks bad for Black, in practical tactical terms I can't find the way to force through what looked like an advantage for us in the position at the end of the second line. Perhaps the first option is best after all.
+ Show Spoiler +
probably 8 Re1 is better since 8... Nxf3 9. gxf3 black lost the queen
if 8.... Bd6 9.Nxe5 Bxe5 10. cxd4 looks like it wins the bishop
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On August 31 2011 05:06 Raysalis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 01:56 qrs wrote:On August 31 2011 01:45 Bill Murray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +What if he does Qe7 next? Well, I think a reasonable option there would be + Show Spoiler +7. Bxc6 removing a defender and all that. Since he's played ...Qe7, the reply ...dxc6 is slightly less strong than it is in other lines, as it doesn't open lines for the Queen anymore. But the best response is probably + Show Spoiler +7. 0-0. This keeps all the pressure on Black as before, without giving him any of the tactical options that he had while our King was still in the open. If he grabs the pawn with 7...NxP, then 8. NxP QxN 9. Re1 Ne4 and I don't think that Black will be able to keep his Knight. Edit: actually, although it looks bad for Black, in practical tactical terms I can't find the way to force through what looked like an advantage for us in the position at the end of the second line. Perhaps the first option is best after all. + Show Spoiler +
probably 8 Re1 is better since 8... Nxf3 9. gxf3 black lost the queen
if 8.... Bd6 9.Nxe5 Bxe5 10. cxd4 looks like it wins the bishop
Good point. You're right.
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+ Show Spoiler +The move Qe7 is actually incredibly complicated... I've been spending a lot of time looking at it and I can't quite figure out all the possible variations and inversions of moves. As far as the position qrs cited, I think we have a straightforward and interesting way to "force" things ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sDGcm.png) 10. Nd2 f5 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Rxe4!In the end, black will temporarily be up a pawn, but I'm sure we can easily win it back. His pawn structure will be in shambles, his king is still trapped in the center, he is behind in development, and we have the two bishops on an open board. As far as the other immense number of variations, I'm still trying to wade my way through them. I do think that castling is the better move here, as trading bishop for knight doesn't seem to accomplish much. Hopefully I will update soon with further analysis.
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Analysis of the move 6. ... Qe7
+ Show Spoiler +The reason bxc6 is weaker than castling is because it gives black control of the d5 square, allowing him to unravel his way from our grip and equalize. For example, in the line: 7. Bxc6 dxc6 8. O-O Ne5 9. cxd4 Bb6, and black has equalized.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nIzZJ.png) To show how the situation would differ in the castling first variation, consider the line: 7. O-O Ne5 8. cxd4 Bb6 9. Bc4, now the undefended knight must retreat again, to his only square: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0FLbs.png) 9. ... Nb4 10. a3 Na6 11. Nc3 h6 12. b4 Nb8, and we have a completely dominant position. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vj2N2.png) Now let's look at the possibilities after 7. O-O7. ... Nxd4 8. Nxd4 Qxd4 9. Re1 Ne4 10. Nd2 f5 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Rxe4! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LgvxP.png) Followed by 12. ... Qxe4 13. Nxe4 gxh5 14. Nxc5 15. c6 Be2.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5hdtb.png) Alternatively, 7. ... Nxd4 8. Re1 Ng4Here things get tricky. 9. cxd4 Bxd4 10. Qxd4 Nxf3+ 11. gxf3 Qxe1+ 12. Ke2 O-O![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vC3ZE.png) or, 9. cxd4 Bxd4 10. Nxd4 Qh4 11. h3 Qxf2+ 12. Kh1 h5![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DswhT.png) or, 9. h3? dxc3 10. hxg4 c2!![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2vGA8.png) or, 9. h3? Nxf3+ 10. gxf3 Ne3! 11. fxe3 dxe3![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/R7oNo.png) Alternatively, 7. ... Ne4 8. cxd4 Nxd4 9. Nxd4 O-O 10. Nf3 Nxf2 11. Rxf2 Bxf2+ 12. Kxf2 Qc5+ 13. Nd4 Qxe5![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8e0pC.png)
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Got new internet right now. Wonder how long it will work properly - but so far it seems the best I have had here.
Now only to set up my desktop and I'm finally good to go. Feels like ages ago if ever.
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On August 31 2011 08:39 jdseemoreglass wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Now let's look at the possibilities after 7. O-O
Alternatively, 7. ... Nxd4 8. Re1 Ng4
Here things get tricky.
... I agree that + Show Spoiler + is definitely our best response to the Black 6th move in question. You give some very interesting lines, but is this really as tricky as all that? What's wrong with the simple + Show Spoiler +7. ... Nxd4 8. Re1 Ng4 9. NxN? Doesn't this win a piece directly? If 10...NxN, then 11. c4 f4, winning the Knight. Sure, Black can pick up an extra pawn via ...PxP+, but I don't see what else he's got.
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On August 31 2011 10:14 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 08:39 jdseemoreglass wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Now let's look at the possibilities after 7. O-O
Alternatively, 7. ... Nxd4 8. Re1 Ng4
Here things get tricky.
... I agree that + Show Spoiler + is definitely our best response to the Black 6th move in question. You give some very interesting lines, but is this really as tricky as all that? What's wrong with the simple + Show Spoiler +7. ... Nxd4 8. Re1 Ng4 9. NxN? Doesn't this win a piece directly? If 10...NxN, then 11. c4, winning the Knight. Sure, Black can pick up an extra pawn via ...PxP+, but I don't see what else he's got.
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm not sure what line you mean... 11. c4 doesn't really do anything. I'm guessing you mean 11. cxd4?
In that case, black plays 11. ... Bxd4 12. Qxd4 Nf3+, trading the knight for a rook and ending up a pawn ahead.
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On August 31 2011 11:02 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 10:14 qrs wrote:On August 31 2011 08:39 jdseemoreglass wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Now let's look at the possibilities after 7. O-O
Alternatively, 7. ... Nxd4 8. Re1 Ng4
Here things get tricky.
... I agree that + Show Spoiler + is definitely our best response to the Black 6th move in question. You give some very interesting lines, but is this really as tricky as all that? What's wrong with the simple + Show Spoiler +7. ... Nxd4 8. Re1 Ng4 9. NxN? Doesn't this win a piece directly? If 10...NxN, then 11. c4, winning the Knight. Sure, Black can pick up an extra pawn via ...PxP+, but I don't see what else he's got. + Show Spoiler +
I'm not sure what line you mean... 11. c4 doesn't really do anything. I'm guessing you mean 11. cxd4?
In that case, black plays 11. ... Bxd4 12. Qxd4 Nf3+, trading the knight for a rook and ending up a pawn ahead.
damn, I meant + Show Spoiler +I'll go back and fix that now.
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+ Show Spoiler +
6.. Ne4 loses the knight without any major compensation. Or am I missing something here?
6...Qe7 doesn't pose a major threat as after 7. 0-0, black can't take the e pawn anyways and has to move the knight. Otherwise if black opts for 7... Nxe5, then 8.Nxe5 would be winning as Q cannot retake due to the threat of Re1 pinning the queen to the king. If black goes ahead with 8... Qxe5 then 9.Re1 Ne4 10. Nd2 is also winning for us.
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Gonna send out reminders tonight. I know that some people messaged and wrote here that they will not be able to vote for a while. Don't worry if you still get removed, as your message might get lost in all the waves of posts. Just PM me again when you're back.
As always I hope you're all having a blast guys. I had a few hiccupy days, which hopefully are over.
At least now I'm downloading drivers for my desktop at 1.2 MB/sec while watching a stream, looks good so far.
Keep up the hype. 
-me
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gF9Df.png)
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