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On November 05 2012 07:31 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:53 debears wrote:
Besides stating the obvious, do you agree with me or djo on this? Now, debears calls everyone usless one way or the other so that's a null tell, but I just found this and I can't tell if this makes scumteam debears/djo more or less likely? After this there are a bunch of instances of one following the other. It's rather interesting that he asked me to pick between him and djo, rather than asking me if Cheese's joke is a null tell or not. Am I just getting paranoid now? I need fresh eyes. I think debears was right for calling you out there. I don't particularly agree that you needed to take a stance there, or that him wanting you to take a stance was anything but a null tell. But I can appreciate him wanting an actual opinion other than something to the effect of "wow, isn't that interesting" and nothing else.
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On November 05 2012 07:33 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Alsn
I don't think there's a way for me to comment on cheese without screwing myself over. I don't think "staying neutral" is a scum tell on D1, but people clearly think so since it's the lynchpin (lol) of the cases on me. I'd say there is. If you get lynched as town, the best thing we have to go on is your (then confirmed) honesty.
I honestly couldn't tell you if commenting will make everyone else more or less likely to vote for you, or less/more likely to vote for debears, who you seem convinced is scum. But that's forum mafia for you. I guess it depends on what you actually think.
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I think that if you were to go on: being neutral and not making points = scum (on day 1) then Cheese would be a good target.
I'm not convinced that it's scummy though, as I think keeping a clear head and taking in as much information as possible is most important day 1. I find there are always people to push information out of others, and I feel that (for me personally) if I push people I tend to get confirmation bias, so I avoid it early.
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How about him not actually pushing his top scum read then?
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On November 05 2012 07:26 Alsn wrote:
Anyone going to even consider Cheese or at least point out if I'm wrong about something? If you truly think Clarity was just blending in, then why should Cheese be excused? Clarity is at least pushing someone he has stated was his top scum read. Cheese just wants to wait for more information without even having to commit to a vote? Come on.
I've been worried about Cheese, but nobody has seemed interested in grilling him. I don't really feel comfortable questioning people rapidly, my posting is too slow to keep up with a forum argument. I want to know who the two people he thinks are scum, and any neutral reads. (Honestly, I like lists, so I want him to list his town reads, too. But he's hinted at an aversion to lists so
With regards to Clar's post just now - "I don't think "staying neutral" is a scum tell on D1" - whyever not? You should be showing that you are town through your actions. Staying neutral is ridiculous. If you don't have an opinion whatsoever, you should have a reason for it- like, "My house caught fire and my dog died and I was kidnapped by terrorists and thusly I haven't been reading the thread at all so I have no opinions." If your opinion is that every single person looks towny or scummy, cool. Whatever. Judgment problems maybe, but at least it's honest. Not wanting to hold an opinion[being neutral] is what doesn't make any sense, unless you're afraid of being wrong. CC hasn't had anybody go after him, he's had a fairly soft impact on the direction that the thread has been taking. Why would he fear being wrong? He wouldn't necessarily be the one who was blamed.
IMO, anyways. I don't feel comfortable voting CC today because nobody has really gone after him so it would feel very sudden, but I really would like to see people looking at him a bit more. He should appreciate that too, because it gives him a chance to open up and not look so "neutral"; and also prevents him from "avoiding attention and skating by".
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On November 05 2012 07:33 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Alsn
I don't think there's a way for me to comment on cheese without screwing myself over. I don't think "staying neutral" is a scum tell on D1, but people clearly think so since it's the lynchpin (lol) of the cases on me.
How would commenting on cheese screw you over?
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I haven't done that either. His top scumread was djo, right? Djo has been pushed for most of the day. I've already said that I dislike pushing people who are already being pushed unless they're missing something obvious.
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On November 05 2012 07:48 Obzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 07:26 Alsn wrote:
Anyone going to even consider Cheese or at least point out if I'm wrong about something? If you truly think Clarity was just blending in, then why should Cheese be excused? Clarity is at least pushing someone he has stated was his top scum read. Cheese just wants to wait for more information without even having to commit to a vote? Come on. I've been worried about Cheese, but nobody has seemed interested in grilling him. I don't really feel comfortable questioning people rapidly, my posting is too slow to keep up with a forum argument. I want to know who the two people he thinks are scum, and any neutral reads. (Honestly, I like lists, so I want him to list his town reads, too. But he's hinted at an aversion to lists so With regards to Clar's post just now - "I don't think "staying neutral" is a scum tell on D1" - whyever not? You should be showing that you are town through your actions. Staying neutral is ridiculous. If you don't have an opinion whatsoever, you should have a reason for it- like, "My house caught fire and my dog died and I was kidnapped by terrorists and thusly I haven't been reading the thread at all so I have no opinions." If your opinion is that every single person looks towny or scummy, cool. Whatever. Judgment problems maybe, but at least it's honest. Not wanting to hold an opinion[being neutral] is what doesn't make any sense, unless you're afraid of being wrong. CC hasn't had anybody go after him, he's had a fairly soft impact on the direction that the thread has been taking. Why would he fear being wrong? He wouldn't necessarily be the one who was blamed. IMO, anyways. I don't feel comfortable voting CC today because nobody has really gone after him so it would feel very sudden, but I really would like to see people looking at him a bit more. He should appreciate that too, because it gives him a chance to open up and not look so "neutral"; and also prevents him from "avoiding attention and skating by".
Let me rephrase... I don't think that because you're not pushing hard /you're not accusing someone of being scum is being scummy. I actually feel that (WIFOM incoming) scum wants to be active in this format, and gain town favor early, ride that out to a win.
@ Rad
He's being accused of the same things I am, if I argue for/against Cheese it'll all be major WIFOM
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On November 05 2012 07:49 Clarity_nl wrote:
I haven't done that either. His top scumread was djo, right? Djo has been pushed for most of the day. I've already said that I dislike pushing people who are already being pushed unless they're missing something obvious. Yet he never pushed Djo. He only alluded to doing so. I'm guessing he was actually hoping that someone else would push the Djo lynch letting him sheep onto it. Or possibly that Djo is actually his scum buddy and the whole joke stupidity in the early game was arranged.
Either way, I can't forgive him for just letting his supposedly top scum read go because he wants to be "neutral". For crying out loud he even accuses you of being neutral in order to get everyone to lynch you as I pointed out in my top spoiler in this post.
So he clearly thinks himself that it's ok to lynch you for being neutral, yet he doesn't want to push a lynch himself but would prefer to wait for "more information".
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I would love it if the people who haven't voted asked more questions, rather than just hoping the thread develops so you can make up your mind.
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Obzy, the thing about lists is that it's almost impossible to stay "up to date" on everyone in the thread. So even in the case of a townie making a truthful list there are bound to be reads in a list that look pretty weird/end up being wrong once they read some more of someone's filter. That's a perfect way for scum to push a mislynch based on someone's list not reflecting reality. On the other hand, it's also not particularly hard to "hide" behind a list saying you find some people slightly scummy or that you "don't know much" about someone. All in all, lists don't actually say very much about what someone actually thinks, behaviour does(such as who is this person pushing as scum? who do they listen to in the thread? etc.).
In/actions speak louder than words.
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Yeah....Could everyone that hasn't voted vote? We have 3 hours to lynch right? That's getting dangerously close to late mayhem
@Alsn
And I agree with you on CC neutrality. I'm also looking at Sylver/Clarity for a few reasons. And if people don't show up for lynch (I think dau0d was the only one that said he couldn't be here for lynch) we are gonna have some problems
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10pm forumclock. So a little less than 2 hours from now.
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@Rad
Seeing as you seemingly still can't decide who you want to lynch, what are your thoughts about my case on Cheese? You didn't want to push a debears/clarity lynch, well, what about Cheese?
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Oh, it's two hours from now? I thought it was just one.
Alright then, that makes me a little less worried. I'd still like it if people actually started arguing instead of just sitting back and waiting.
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Wait did lynch move up????? It's usually 8 pm my time, which is 3 hours from now....
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Someone talked about DST going into effect in the U.S. today I think? Don't remember who it was.
The lynch is one hour later compared to pre DST changes in Europe, but since there were DST changes, it's 2:00 am again for me.
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On November 05 2012 08:17 Alsn wrote:
Someone talked about DST going into effect in the U.S. today I think? Don't remember who it was.
The lynch is one hour later compared to pre DST changes in Europe, but since there were DST changes, it's 2:00 am again for me.
Okay, now I'm confused. When is lynch time?
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Everyone seems so concerned on why I haven't been pushing my case on Djo. You know why? Because everything that I find scummy about him, people attribute to his "Djo" attitude and the way he words things. I made a ton of mistakes last game that I find him doing this game. I point them out, but the entire thread is just like "You know, it's just Djo being Djo". Incredibly frustrating. I dropped my case and accusing him of scummy behavior because I actually didn't feel like hitting my head into this brick wall anymore. So, I decided to go back to a neutral stance and look at what other people were doing.
His 180 on pressure voting is something that I found to be damning as hell (Alsn, I think you agree on this?) He explains this by giving some sorry excuse about the difference between suspicion votes and pressure votes and blah blah blah. You know what? Fuck that. Djo is scummy as hell to me. Was last game(regardless of me being scum), is this game. I don't give two shits how he handles the language or his defense. The only reason he gets away with a ton of his posts is because his meta is cheerfully innocent.
/Engageconfirmationbiasgoggles
##Vote: Djodref
Also, Regular Fapper right here. Just fappin' away.
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I'm on CET. OP says "02:00 CET (+01:00 UTC)" which is in 1 hour 41 minutes.
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EPT
