• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:18
CEST 22:18
KST 05:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League61Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder Battle.net abbreviations list Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away. Young Players Tournament Announced by SOOP Do we even care about balance?
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9999 users

Should "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 73 74 75 Next
TheAmazombie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States3714 Posts
September 01 2011 22:50 GMT
#41
Overall, if it is like a showmatch or something for fun, I have no problem with them arranging a "show" and therefore outcome, but in an actual competition with money and whatnot on the line, where advertisers are paying and viewers are expecting real competition, it is deplorable.

If I found out that the GSL was rigged, I would stop giving them my money because currently I watch to see the best, highest level of competition. If that is not what we are getting, that is fraud to me.
We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. -Charlie Chaplin
Utinni
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1196 Posts
September 01 2011 22:50 GMT
#42
On September 02 2011 07:40 GettingIt wrote:
Either way both players will be trying their hardest to win the Finals for the glory and fame...

You should read other threads, and you would know what the OP is talking about. He is talking about an incident that just happend which I won't link.
“... you don’t have to be Sun freakin Tzu to know that real fighting isn’t about killing or even hurting the other guy, it’s about scaring him enough to call it a day.” - Max Brooks: World War Z
piknic
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada59 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 22:53:47
September 01 2011 22:51 GMT
#43
The analogy of magic the gathering, and for the most part poker, or even local lans do not ring true at all because the generated revenue from these tournmanets (and their industries in general) are generated usually from the players themsevles. MTG gets money primarly from players buying cards, poker from players playing for real money in casinos/online, local lans from buyins usually. The difference is that professional sc2 tournaments generate revenue almost solely because of viership. Your analogies are baseless in my opinion as the two formats can not be compared. Look at pro poker on the main stage TV, can they deal on that? (maybe? I am not sure but I doubt it).

I would go so far as to say this deal making is unfair to the tournaments and fans that are the ONLY reason they get to play starcraft 2 for a living.
leungwk01
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1260 Posts
September 01 2011 22:51 GMT
#44
Err, this has happened loads of times.

Same situation with select and MC @NASL. Select wins game 1 (He then advances) but just messes around in the remainder of the games which caused MC to advance.
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
September 01 2011 22:53 GMT
#45
On September 02 2011 07:47 babylon wrote:
For those not in the know: TT1 and Fenix made a deal that if they got 1st and 2nd at some tournament, they would split the prize winnings. In the finals, TT1 went 1-base carriers and got rolled. Fenix later reneged on the deal and "stole" $2500 from TT1. (Cue some drama about TT1 not wanting to have anything to do with Fenix and Fenix being released from Fnatic because of this entire business.)

Another interesting scenario (though not the one that sparked this discussion) involved Sjow and MorroW a while back:

Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 05:43 ZAiNs wrote:
On September 02 2011 05:41 marttorn wrote:
Reminds me of the time Sjow and MorroW (preeeetty sure it was Sjow yeah) were in some finals and they decided to split winnings. If I remember a million people went crazy on TL and called them match fixers TT;;

just comes to mind

I think it was more than that, one of them let the other win because of some super stupid qualification system that would benefit them both if one person one several qualifiers or something like that.

EDIT: Yep:

So what happened? The event is a set of 18 “LAN” tournaments that will not be streamed. If you win 11 out of the 18, you get a very nice computer. As MorroW and SjoW are the only 2 pros competing, they plan to get to the finals every time. As they are equal in skill level, it is unlikely for one them to go 11 and 18. So they discussed making a pact starting that one will always forfeit; why? Because if they unlock all the prizes both of them can get a 1st place prize pool and come out winners.

if that bit about being able to win more if one of them won, that should be illegal.

But 2 players going into a final where winner gets 2k and second place gets 1k if they say they winner will give $500 to the loser whoever wins then thats fine. There is NOTHING the law can do to stop that happening, Its their money they can do what the fuck they want with it
Looms
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 22:54:14
September 01 2011 22:53 GMT
#46
On September 02 2011 07:45 ThatGuy89 wrote:
how can you base an argument off this?
what a player does with his/her winnings is upto them.
If 2 players agree that if either of them win they'll half the winnings,then its fine, as long as it doesnt affect the games in anyway (ie match fixing but it shouldnt really,they both gotta fight to be in the finals together anyway)

i dont see how on earth they can make this illegal - what law would it break?


What if the final four of a tournament agrees to split evenly? Final eight? At what point does it get out of hand?

What about giving Player1 $xxxx.xx more than the others during a split because he is the "best" and won't agree to a split otherwise?

I don't see how this situation benefits tournament organizers, spectators, etc.
sh4w
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States713 Posts
September 01 2011 22:53 GMT
#47
Clearly they lost their passion years ago..

Seriously though at first I was like 'not a big deal', but now that I think about it, it's kind of stupid. I would rather see 2 people competing their hardest to win rather than just taking it easy.
But how can you stop this? You can''t really, so I fail to see where this discussion will lead.
I want to go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird is all I've got. That and my sweet style.
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
September 01 2011 22:54 GMT
#48
can't believe spectators and fans are that clueless lol

it is so standard to do that, grubby did that frequently so did many other pros, it doesn't need to be public knowledge if it's gonna make dumb spectators be mad about it
scorch-
Profile Joined January 2011
United States816 Posts
September 01 2011 22:54 GMT
#49
How about instead of sweeping it under the rug, the tournaments set limits and allow the players to do it behind the scenes like in poker? While the tournament advertises 85k$ for first place and 30k$ for 2nd place... behind the scenes they know it's really going to be 60k$ for first place and 55k$ for 2nd. It's not like you're just going to give up 5k$ and not try. There's variance in sc2 just like poker, and the players should be allowed to deal behind the scenes as long as it doesn't affect the tournament. Remember, the tournament doesn't have to invite the players back if they embarrass the sponsors.
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
September 01 2011 22:54 GMT
#50
On September 02 2011 07:51 leungwk01 wrote:
Err, this has happened loads of times.

Same situation with select and MC @NASL. Select wins game 1 (He then advances) but just messes around in the remainder of the games which caused MC to advance.

wow thats nothing at all like this is it?
darkest44
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1009 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 22:56:22
September 01 2011 22:54 GMT
#51
On September 02 2011 07:49 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote:
this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.

you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best


TT1 admitted he didn't play his best, he basically said he just threw it cause it didn't matter by going 1 base carriers. The fans don't watch esports and give the sponsors a reason to fund it to watch two guys just goof off/throw games in a finals and not care because the winnings are shared either way. It just shows a complete lack of respect for the fans and no appreciation that esports isn't just about you as a player getting paid, its about putting up your best effort for the fans so they keep watching.
laguu
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland278 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 22:56:18
September 01 2011 22:55 GMT
#52
Completely fine. It's done in poker all the time. They usually split most of it and leave a portion for the winner so they have an incentive to still play it out. I don't see a reason why it couldn't be done in SC2 too. Some tournaments have way too top heavy prize payout structures anyway and the viewers will never notice if they have split it.
Arguing with a fool proves there are two.
Herculix
Profile Joined May 2010
United States946 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-01 23:04:46
September 01 2011 22:56 GMT
#53
no it's bullshit and i'll immediately stop being a fan of anyone who does it. i remember there was some bullshit like that that happened in jiu-jitsu a few years ago, because a lot of the best grapplers come from only a few gyms and they literally played rock paper scissors in the finals in front of everyone. it was some of the biggest bullshit i ever saw and throwing games in any way in any sport for any reason is spitting on whatever you're competing in.

edit: that's not to say you can't split money with your teammates. however, it makes the entire competition pointless if at the culmination of the entire thing where the 2 best players are left to see who is truly the best that day, you basically make the finals a facade. and if you can't respect the rest of the competition and the fans that provide you with all of the things that allow you to do what you're doing to give the matches your best shot, then you shouldn't get any respect from anyone else. you definitely don't get it from me, i don't care what you did before and how impressive it was or how much i like you as a person.
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
September 01 2011 22:56 GMT
#54
I'd rather players play the game for themselves and try to win glory and fame the hard way rather than trying to split/not care about the result.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that not caring about results is a bad thing, I mean White-Ra doesn't care all that much about winning or losing but to him it's about a good game.

When you're doing it purely for the money, it's not wrong IMO but I'd still like to see an effort to win, although getting to the top 2 spots is really solid anyway.
kiss kiss fall in love
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
September 01 2011 22:56 GMT
#55
On September 02 2011 07:54 darkest44 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 07:49 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote:
this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.

you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best


TT1 admitted he didn't play his best, he basically said he just threw it cause it didn't matter by going 1 base carriers. The fans don't watch esports and give the sponsors a reason to fund it to watch two guys just goof off/throw games in a finals and not care because the winnings are shared either way. It just shows a complete lack of respect for the fans and no appreciation that esports isn't just about you as a player getting paid, its about putting up your best effort for the fans so they keep watching.


So did Huk throw his game against Select at MLG by mothership rushing? Because the fans loved that.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
piknic
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada59 Posts
September 01 2011 22:56 GMT
#56
If a player does it don't invite him back to the next tournament. It is that simple. Sure you will not always catch it always but implementing this would cast such a negative connotation on a player/team that I doubt anyone would do it. Teams could also enforce it in similair ways. It is very easy to stop.
ToD
Profile Joined December 2008
France222 Posts
September 01 2011 22:57 GMT
#57
Splitting when meeting a teammate in finals of a tour is standard imo, ofcourse both players should feel as motivated to take the championship as usual otherwise the finals might be ruined, i remember splitting in the finals of at least 2 major tournaments in WC3 which i actually ended up winning, one of them actually was 30k$ for first prize, i kept my word, went to the bank and wired what was agreed to Grubby.

Commentator
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
September 01 2011 22:57 GMT
#58
On September 02 2011 07:53 Looms wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 07:45 ThatGuy89 wrote:
how can you base an argument off this?
what a player does with his/her winnings is upto them.
If 2 players agree that if either of them win they'll half the winnings,then its fine, as long as it doesnt affect the games in anyway (ie match fixing but it shouldnt really,they both gotta fight to be in the finals together anyway)

i dont see how on earth they can make this illegal - what law would it break?


What if the final four of a tournament agrees to split evenly? Final eight? At what point does it get out of hand?

What about giving Player1 $xxxx.xx more than the others during a split because he is the "best" and won't agree to a split otherwise?

I don't see how this situation benefits tournament organizers, spectators, etc.


fuck me.
It has to be agreed with theplayers obviously.
tournament organisers wont just announce that top 8 have to split....
are you serious or did i just get trolled cos i feel like no one can mean what you just said -_-#
the argument ofthem not trying knowing they won win more cash is stupid. Pretty certain that coca woulda happily taken half or even a 3rd of the cash prize to take 1st instead of 2nd at mlg
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
September 01 2011 22:57 GMT
#59
On September 02 2011 07:54 darkest44 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 07:49 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote:
this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.

you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best


TT1 admitted he didn't play his best, he basically said he just threw it cause it didn't matter by going 1 base carriers. The fans don't watch esports and give the sponsors a reason to fund it to watch two guys just goof off/throw games in a finals and not care because the winnings are shared either way. It just shows a complete lack of respect for the fans and no appreciation that esports isn't just about you as a player getting paid, its about putting up your best effort for the fans so they keep watching.

yes TT1 throwing the game was definitely wrong

but the whole idea of splitting the prize in finals is really standard and should not be viewed as wrong, even less illegal lol wtf
pksens
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom156 Posts
September 01 2011 22:57 GMT
#60
On September 02 2011 07:49 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 07:39 ClydeFrog wrote:
this isn't poker....you cant split the prize when you don't feel like playing anymore.

you can split any amount of money you like in any fucking thing as long as both agrees to play their best


When the money given to you is directly tied into spectators WANTING to watch your game, I can't understand how selfish you sound right now. In any thing? How about a GSL finals? TSL3 finals? Both go 6pool vs 1base carrier? You shit on the people that tune in, pay money in the instances of Gom/NASL/MLG, just to watch a farce?

Give me a break.

You are on a pro team, I really hope this isn't something you all agree with over on in Reign. You riled me up, grats.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 73 74 75 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
AI Arena Tournament
02:00
RO8 - Day 1
FEL
18:00
ScienceCraft - Day 1
RotterdaM652
IndyStarCraft 352
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 652
mouzHeroMarine 394
IndyStarCraft 352
JuggernautJason90
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 825
ZZZero.O 206
Dewaltoss 169
HiyA 39
Hyuk 26
Mong 23
Dota 2
Cr1tdota2168
canceldota63
febbydoto4
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 595
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox0
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu725
Trikslyr74
Other Games
Grubby3819
FrodaN1981
Liquid`RaSZi1957
B2W.Neo851
ToD118
KnowMe63
QueenE42
UpATreeSC30
CosmosSc2 4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1693
StarCraft 2
angryscii 16
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 62
• Adnapsc2 29
• HeavenSC 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3498
• Nemesis3283
• Scarra1163
Other Games
• imaqtpie806
• Shiphtur524
• tFFMrPink 11
Upcoming Events
FEL
13h 43m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
13h 43m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 15h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.