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God damnit layabout. I was about to post how VE's claim made sense and how he was town, but then you convince me the opposite. Geez.
And this martyring post from VE only makes sense from two PoVs:
- He really is a JK and he will let town use his flip information to deal with what happened during the day
- He is scum trying to sound like that.
Also, right now, I see no reason to lynch Bill Murray - he should be vigged, not lynched if he doesn't contribute soon.
VE, what is your stance on gonzaw, especially after his series of (Seemingly) drunk posts?
Also, please make the case against the certain scum you are talking about. Should you flip JK, we got something solid to work from. In fact, I'll take you are claiming scum if you don't do that.
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On April 23 2012 00:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not a tantrum - just not interested in defending myself further. If anyone wants to listen to reason I can feasibly get down on a scum lynch, but I'm not going to waste any more time defending myself when it's useless.
But you know, continue to be a jerk about it laya...that's about par for the course where you're concerned.
Why should i vote for anyone else when you have made a nonsensical claim and have not responded to any of my criticisms called me scum, told me to "Fuck off", martyred yourself and refused to further defend yourself.
+ Show Spoiler [Also] +If you are a jail keeper then you cannot even confirm you power to the thread since Players will not be notified if they are jailed.
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About VE:
On April 22 2012 13:49 VisceraEyes wrote:So that you guys know that whatever vig claim you come up with doesn't have my support, as the Town Jailkeeper. It has nothing to do with any wagon on me or slOosh's case on me, or anything. It has everything to do with my disagreement with gonzaw's vig claim plan.
VE, your claim really doesn't make any sense.
You said you claimed NOT because of the cases and votes on you, but just to justify you disagreeing with my plan?
Really? You outed yourself as JK to scum just so people would "know" why you disagree with my plan, even though my plan was not even being discussed anymore, and your reasons for disliking it or not didn't matter anymore?
Why are you acting so "defeated" too?
Other people are bringing up points about how this fits your scum play from LI and they are right, you are doing something similar.
However, you doing this on D1 (out of all days) as scum doesn't make much sense either, and you claimed JK out of all things.
Scum will take care of you tonight, or at least will at some point if you are town, so you'll die soon anyways (no need to waste D1s lynch on you).
I don't know why the hell you are acting like this and not scumhunting at all, so stop it.
I don't want to lynch VE now (it's likely he will flip JK adn we won't know shit because he's just making it so easy to vote for him), and for now I don't want to lynch marv nor Matt either.
I get a more townie feel from marvs latest posts, so I'm not confident lynching him now.
Matt seems more active and seems to care about discussion more now, I wouldn't want to lynch him either
Instead, I want to lynch another person, and I will make a case against him shortly.
In a few minutes I'll be going away and I'll be back in 1 day or a little bit more, so I won't be around at the lynch, and I won't be able to be part of the discussion previous the the lynch itself, nor I will be able to influence the lynch that much because of it.
For that I hope to make a case against this person and I hope you guys take that info and lynch accordingly, discuss, etc.
Also, these players haven't posted or contributed as much as I'd like for now:
-sloosh
-Midnight
-Zephirdd
Zephird, you have only 3 posts since the game started and barely contributed at all.
What do you think of marv? You didn't mention him at all yet he's been a point of discussion.
What do you think of the Paq vs Mattchew feud?
About Daniel:
I still don't like his posts
On April 22 2012 16:44 St.Daniel wrote:
Done reading all of the posts at 3:00 AM... fuck.
First of all, I would like to apology for my lack of contribution because 1) I'm away at camp & 2) this is my first mafia game.
I would like to point out that my one and only post was shitty as hell. And I can't really make an excuse for it because it literally said nothing at all, even to my eyes. If you are currently suspicious of me, I can't say I blame you until I prove my worth I guess.
As far as my view so far is concerned:
I don't like Gonz's plan at all. Despite the fact that the town can really use blues to its advantage, it can easily not work. As VE has pointed out, if JK or Vil do not cooperate, it only hurts the town. Other than his plan, Gonz has been actively contributing and leading (if not demanding) discussion from for each case. My suspicion for Gonz is minimum a for now.
VE, on the other hand, pointed out some of the flaws of other players and made a reasonable case on Gonzaw. I'm not at all convinced by Slo's cases against him because it lacks solid evidence saying that VE is not contributing for the benefit of town (I think that was the main reason behind Slo's case). Even though I'm not voting for VE, I'll have to filter through his posts.
As for Paq and Mat, I'm not gonna pick a side YET. I think they are just pointing at each other going back and forth on arguing. If I have to pick a side, I'll go with Paq, because he pointed out some of possible evidence to proving Mat is a scum, however I do believe he is tunneling little too hard on Mat. Maybe taking a step back for a sec and goering in the broad picture would be a good idea. I would be interesting in listen more from you, Paq.
My vote so far goes to BM for an obvious reason. His mysterious contentless posts and his awkward response to the first sign of danger make him way too suspicious. This seems too easy (?). Anyway it's either he's a scum or he don't care about the game. Either way, I believe me voting for him is most beneficial for town. My vote will stand until he make an excuse out clarify himself by convincing me that he is not a scum.
##Vote:Bill Murray
I do have a case for Marv and I'm not sure how I feel about Ghost, but it's 3:40 and I'm dead tired. I'll post tomorrow on those two so please understand.
Notice the bolded bit.
He doesn't say he will vote BM because he thinks he's scum, but he tries to be wishy washy about it saying "I believe me voting for him is the most beneficial for town".
And what the hell is that "My vote will stand until he make an excuse out clarify himself by convincing me that he is not scum" thing?
What? You will vote BM until BM comes up with an excuse?
His wording for voting seems very flimsy and it seems to me he just wants to make an excuse to vote for someone.
To vigs:
I'd prefer if a vig shot BM or Daniel tonight.
A vig shooting BM seems the best choice though.
We shouldn't waste D1 discussion about a player that isn't even posting (BM). That is what vigs are for.
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we should lynch BM cause he claimed scum in thread by ninja voting
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On April 23 2012 01:05 Mattchew wrote:
we should lynch BM cause he claimed scum in thread by ninja voting
he did not claim scum in the thread.
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Risen:
I'd like to lynch Risen and I'll tell you why
On April 22 2012 02:22 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 01:42 layabout wrote:How are you feeling VE? Any thoughts on marvellosity paqman or mattchew? we need Risen to rise and get posting we need ghost 403 to de-cloak we need St.Daniel to grace us with his presence we need Janaan to get out of bed we need slOosh to stop fapping to Beethoven *we need BroodkingEXE to execute som scum for us we need Bill Murray to get his head in the game we need Zephirrd to tell you guys to stop posting shit we need layabout to stop with the puns lead us to victory Yeah I'm sorry. Just woke up. I'll get posting. Posting lots is pro-town and from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy. I'd rather we put pressure on someone who isn't posting. I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting. From the last page I do have a problem with mementoss' idea. It seems solid but as you said on this page, all vigs would have to get on board. I don't like directing blues in the first place (i realize this game has special stuff going on, though, so I don't think forwarding the idea is scummy. I just don't think we should do it). Another problem with your plan mt is your directing of jailkeepers. By directing jk away from targets and the vigis you give scum a potential three kill night. They can kill the vig, another person, and then if the vigi target is town they get to laugh at us. To sum, don't direct blues. I think there's been enough discussion about it and with no clearly best plan there's no way to get everyone behind one plan.
This post is wishy washy as hell.
First he starts by being unnecessary apologetic when laya called him out.
He posts a very wishy washy statement like "from what I've read I don't find anyone really all that scummy". Really? That's not the town Risen I know of.
The town Risen I know of would instantly find people scummy and try to create discussion. Town Risen wouldn't stay neutral and spout wishy washy shit like "I'm not sure who's scummy".
Then he keeps trying to appear more "innocent" and neutral by saying things like "I messed up last game with my pressure on ET so I'm not sure how to get everyone posting".
Then the rest of the post is fluff about Mementos' plan. He doesn't seem to have a solid stance on the matter (says things like "I don't like directing blues, though I realize this game has special stuff going on") yet he just keeps talking about it.
Also, please note the tone of his post. It seems neutral, but most of all it's not aggressive at all. It seems submisive. Layabout called him out and he seems afraid and posts only because he was called out.
Also take notice of the bolded "Posting lots is pro-town" bit, I'll use it later.
On April 22 2012 02:28 Risen wrote:
I don't get your reasoning mt or anyone else's voting for marvel. He's posting and it's very early day 1. There isn't that much to go off of so I don't think he's scummy. I hate lurkers, they always fuck us and it isn't pro-town at all. I'd rather not lynch someone who's here day 1. Posting is pro-town and I don't think we should be scaring people away from posting day 1 bc it just gives people an excuse to be worthless
He just barely comments on the marvel issue, but doesn't really take any stances. He keeps up with his "I still don't think anybody is scummy" excuse to avoid taking stances on people.
He also doesn't comment on other things happening in the thread, like VE's "case" on me, or my case against VE, or the Paqman/Mattchew issue, nothing.
Again, note the bolded bit too.
On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote:
Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us? I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me. ##vote layabout I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too.
Now here's the kicker.
Here he goes against layabout and votes him, and his reason is "I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me"...
...really?
I already said how this seems like Toad's play from LI. He ignores current discussion, he avoids taking a stance on the current events, and instead decides to FoS someone completely irrelevant for shitty reasons, and keeps his vote there.
This vote only disrupts town because he fails to justify it and derails current discussions.
Not only that, but it makes it so he can "justify" his vote and just leave it there, so he can fake trying to contribute.
But there's another important thing to take into account:
Notice how aggressive he's become against layabout.
Why did the tone of his post and his behaviour change so much?
In that first post he sounded afraid. Laya called him out and he sounded submissive against him, he was the opposite of aggressive.
He posted trying to please laya, had a very neutral tone, was wishy-washy and didn't take any stances.
Yet now that layabout points out Risen being suspicious, he flips and goes all crazy against him?
Really?
I don't buy that change of behaviour, it's inconsisent, it's way too sudden and doesn't make sense with the way he was posting before.
Hey, remember that bolded bits I was mentioning before? Here:
Posting lots is pro-town
He says that posting a lot is pro-town, yet he's not following his own advice and is barely posting!
So really people, Risen is scum because:
- He barely posts at all even though he said posting a lot is pro-town and people should be encouraged to do it
- Starts off wishy washy as hell, sounds very submissive and afraid of being called out, ignores current discussions and doesn't take stances on them, posts uninteresting fluff about directing blues while not even taking a solid stance on the matter
- Makes a very flimsy vote on layabout and doesn't justify it at all
- Has a very sudden change of behaviour. He becomes aggressive very quickly while his previous behaviour was the opposite of that
- He doesn't play like when he does as town at all. As town he posts without fear or hesitation, he actively calls people out and tries whatever he can to get some discussion going. As town he posts more and pushes people more, as town he doesn't park a vote on someone irrelevant for irrelevant reasons and remains hidden for the rest of the day
So people, let's lynch Risen
##Unvote: VisceraEyes
##Vote: Risen
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On April 23 2012 01:15 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 01:05 Mattchew wrote:
we should lynch BM cause he claimed scum in thread by ninja voting he did not claim scum in the thread.
ok. the other thread, claimed it. This one confirmed it
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I think a BM lynch is a terrible idea (vig shout would be fine though). I don't think I've ever seen a case where a ninja vote was due to someone being scum. There's too much risk and no reward for scum in this situation. I think he's just insane.
I really don't like the fact that Sentinel immediately jumped on the lynch BM bandwagon. Trying to lynch insane players is scummy in my book. Same goes for you Mattchew. Why would scum even try to ninja vote? It makes way more sense to sheep instead. No one would have thought twice if BM had shown up in thread and said "lol VE scum ##vote VE".
VE's claim is bad. He's doing the same thing that he did in TLM LI in claiming when there's no reason to. I can't imagine scum VE doing the same thing twice, but now we're into WIFOM territory. In addition, JK is the only nonconfirmable role in the game. A vig shot shows up in the day post, and a tracker can confirm where someone went that night. It only makes sense that scum VE would claim JK.
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On April 21 2012 09:15 Mattchew wrote:
So anyway should we policy lynch Bill Murray because
b. he gets away with everything "because he's Bill Murray"
please don't let him get away with a ninja vote and literally no additions to the thread except 1 liners. He doesn't even try his imma be the best townie ever routine
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On April 23 2012 01:28 ghost_403 wrote:
I think a BM lynch is a terrible idea (vig shout would be fine though). I don't think I've ever seen a case where a ninja vote was due to someone being scum. There's too much risk and no reward for scum in this situation. I think he's just insane.
I really don't like the fact that Sentinel immediately jumped on the lynch BM bandwagon. Trying to lynch insane players is scummy in my book. Same goes for you Mattchew. Why would scum even try to ninja vote? It makes way more sense to sheep instead. No one would have thought twice if BM had shown up in thread and said "lol VE scum ##vote VE".
VE's claim is bad. He's doing the same thing that he did in TLM LI in claiming when there's no reason to. I can't imagine scum VE doing the same thing twice, but now we're into WIFOM territory. In addition, JK is the only nonconfirmable role in the game. A vig shot shows up in the day post, and a tracker can confirm where someone went that night. It only makes sense that scum VE would claim JK.
So after all this conundrum who do you think Town should be voting to lynch?
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@mattchew: This is my first game playing with BM. I don't know his meta well enough to know if ninja voting is something scum BM would do or not, but I do know this: there's no reason for scum to ninja vote almost a full day before the deadline. If he had voted five minutes before the night post, I would hold him accountable for it. But, a full day? That's not scummy, that's insane. I lynch people for scummy play, not insane play.
@paqman: I'm still where I'm at last night: VE or Sentinel. Sentinel has only become more scummy in my book for jumping on the BM bandwagon like there's no tomorrow, and immediately voting against the person who called you out for lurking is a classic chainsaw defense. I still have no idea what VE is doing, and I don't see a good reason to buy his JK claim. It doesn't make sense to claim so far before the lynch.
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Also, this is pure speculation, but what if BM is a GF? We're dismissing him and assuming our vigi (if we even have one) will shoot him.
Gonzaw's case on Risen is bueno. Seeing as I'm the only one who supports a Mattchew lynch, Gonzaw's case is really tempting, more so than the other ones I've read.
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On April 23 2012 01:44 ghost_403 wrote:
@mattchew: This is my first game playing with BM. I don't know his meta well enough to know if ninja voting is something scum BM would do or not, but I do know this: there's no reason for scum to ninja vote almost a full day before the deadline. If he had voted five minutes before the night post, I would hold him accountable for it. But, a full day? That's not scummy, that's insane. I lynch people for scummy play, not insane play.
@paqman: I'm still where I'm at last night: VE or Sentinel. Sentinel has only become more scummy in my book for jumping on the BM bandwagon like there's no tomorrow, and immediately voting against the person who called you out for lurking is a classic chainsaw defense. I still have no idea what VE is doing, and I don't see a good reason to buy his JK claim. It doesn't make sense to claim so far before the lynch.
Aight cool. I was just checking to see if you were consistent with your previous claim of Sentinel being scum.
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On April 23 2012 01:36 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 09:15 Mattchew wrote:
So anyway should we policy lynch Bill Murray because
b. he gets away with everything "because he's Bill Murray" please don't let him get away with a ninja vote and literally no additions to the thread except 1 liners. He doesn't even try his imma be the best townie ever routine
No one will let him get away with anything.
A vig shoots him tonight (hopefully we have one) and this whole ordeal is over, and we won't have to waste all D1 on a lynch on him.
If he flips town (which is probable) then you wasted the whole D1 on nothing.
So no, BM shouldn't be lynched today. At all we lynch him on D2 if he fails to do anything by then and we have no vigs.
On April 23 2012 01:28 ghost_403 wrote:
I think a BM lynch is a terrible idea (vig shout would be fine though). I don't think I've ever seen a case where a ninja vote was due to someone being scum. There's too much risk and no reward for scum in this situation. I think he's just insane.
I really don't like the fact that Sentinel immediately jumped on the lynch BM bandwagon. Trying to lynch insane players is scummy in my book. Same goes for you Mattchew. Why would scum even try to ninja vote? It makes way more sense to sheep instead. No one would have thought twice if BM had shown up in thread and said "lol VE scum ##vote VE".
VE's claim is bad. He's doing the same thing that he did in TLM LI in claiming when there's no reason to. I can't imagine scum VE doing the same thing twice, but now we're into WIFOM territory. In addition, JK is the only nonconfirmable role in the game. A vig shot shows up in the day post, and a tracker can confirm where someone went that night. It only makes sense that scum VE would claim JK.
Isn't Sentinel voting VE?
Speaking of which:
On April 22 2012 22:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Ok. What the hell is a "non-cooperative Jailkeeper"?
Coupled with trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread, I feel no shame in voting VE.
##Unvote: ghost_403
##Vote: VisceraEyes
St. Dan is next on my list. As for Brood, his last post was fluff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Sentinel, please state more reasons why you "feel no shame in voting VE" rather than "trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread".
Anyways ghost, I agree about the BM part.
Saying BM is "scummy for not ninja-voting" is very easy to say. His wagon is very easy to jump onto.
Everybody is justified in voting BM by this, meaning that it will be impossible to distinguish scum from town when we analyse voting once BM is lynched.
Scum will have it very easy to jump on BM, and they won't have to post any reasoning behind their vote and can skate through the game some more.
Let's lynch someone else. That way scum will have to fake more reasons for voting those players.
So people, please check my case against Risen
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EBWOP:
People, again let scum take care of VE tonight.
If VE is really JK, then I'm sure scum won't hesitate to kill him and get this over with, instead of not killing him and trying to "push his lynch on D2".
If scum don't kill him, they run the risk of VE stopping their shot.
And like I said, a claimed JailKeeper will die at some point. Scum will kill him at some point, or they won't and it will be obvious he's scum (specially if he keeps up with his fearmongering tactics and fails to scumhunt).
I think it was in the mafiawiki that I read that you never lynch doctor claims or something.
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Wow, I could have sworn that I read that Sentinel voted BM. -_-
My bad. That knocks him into second place in my list of people I think are scummy. When I have more time, I'll look back into the Sentinel == scum thing. Working on a Linear Algebra problem at the moment. brb
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Gonzaw I think your case on risen is weaker than the scum play of BM (cause of Meta Risen was super aggressive when called out in GoT, this is BM's scum meta). Why can't we lynch Risen tomorrow?
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EBWOP why shouldn't we lynch BM today and Risen tomorrow?
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On April 23 2012 02:01 Mattchew wrote:
Gonzaw I think your case on risen is weaker than the scum play of BM (cause of Meta Risen was super aggressive when called out in GoT, this is BM's scum meta). Why can't we lynch Risen tomorrow?
How about we do this so all of us are happy?:
-We lynch Risen now
-A vig shoots BM tonight
I don't see how my case was weak. The way I see it Risen seemed to fake his "aggressiveness" against laya. I think this because he changed his behaviour very quickly, going from "guy seemingly afraid to post" to "aggressive OMGUSer" in a matter of minutes (so to speak).
Anyways, I'm going away now, so this will be my last post in a while.
Good luck town, hopefully you don't do something stupid while I'm gone 
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EBWOP:
I already said why we shouldn't lynch BM, it gives scum a very easy way out to vote for him, and because of what ghost said it's more likely BM is town, or at least his ninja-vote should not be used to indicate his alignment, since apparently BM always plays this crazy.
Also Matt, why would we lynch BM and not Daniel for instance? If we are going to lynch inactive/lurkers who didn't contribute at all or did so barely, we might as well lynch Daniel too.
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EPT
