Catch 22 Mafia - Page 24

Have you made sense of why?

And the fact he's not *currently* a scumread doesn't change the fact you brought him up as the person you were "most suspicious of".

Why do you feel better about him now?

No I can't quite figure out why Oats is playing civilly. Honestly, my time is probably better spent not thinking about it anymore for the time being...

Regarding question two: As I've said, that he actually has rationale for his reads that I could find sensibly coming from a town perspective... The complete switch of attention thing still doesn't sit well with me. Others here seem to have some kind of "well it's Oats" rationale for when he does some things, but I wanted to take a quick look at this as there could be scum motivation behind it. Said quick look apparently means my entire filter...

Oatsmaster

United States16628 Posts

June 21 2013 16:56 GMT

#463

Let me explain.
Yamato just started posting bullshit when I switched on to him, and the amount of agression and attack hapa and DP showed forced me rethink my reads.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 16:56 GMT

#464

On June 22 2013 01:54 goodkarma wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 22 2013 01:38 marvellosity wrote:

On June 22 2013 01:36 goodkarma wrote:

On June 22 2013 01:29 marvellosity wrote:

On June 22 2013 01:25 goodkarma wrote:

On June 22 2013 01:14 marvellosity wrote:

On June 22 2013 01:12 goodkarma wrote:

On June 22 2013 01:05 ShiaoPi wrote:
@gk:
you are doing comparison wrong. compare d1 and d1 not n1/d2 when he locked onto you.

Well when I was ingame is what I'm the most familiar with, and what is fresh in my mind. I believe he was also especially dickish about his BH and Hapa reads last game day one. The point is here he's actually almost polite with his reads (again, compared to last game).

The main issue with this is, GK, that your first couple of posts arising suspicion on Oats are primarily based on meta, or how you view his play last time he was town. The problem is, if you have selective/incomplete memory or you don't check, then it's at best not very useful at all, and at worst manipulative/deceitful. See what I'm saying?

This is obvious. I don't feel I've been misleading. He has been more level-headed this game...

A couple of things. Firstly I think pretty much everyone else in the game isn't detecting any particular major deviation in Oats' play from normal. That's fine maybe, maybe you got something subtle that the rest of us didn't. The problem arises when you bring Oats up as a suspect / scumread because of your meta-read (which Shiao pointed out didn't quite hold true during the D1 you were referring to). It's precisely why I asked how you felt the change was scum-motivated. If you're bringing up a scum suspect on the basis of meta, you need to explain why the differences you bring up make him scum and not playing a slightly different style. In short:

a) maybe he has been more level-headed (?) but it's early and it's not something I (and others are picking up)
b) even if he is, why does that make him scum

For the last time: His play felt different, and I was working to make sense of why. He is not currently a scumread for me.

No I can't quite figure out why Oats is playing civilly. Honestly, my time is probably better spent not thinking about it anymore for the time being...

Regarding question two: As I've said, that he actually has rationale for his reads that I could find sensibly coming from a town perspective... The complete switch of attention thing still doesn't sit well with me. Others here seem to have some kind of "well it's Oats" rationale for when he does some things, but I wanted to take a quick look at this as there could be scum motivation behind it. Said quick look apparently means my entire filter...

Ha! By the power vested in me by absolutely nobody, I release thee to look at other things.

ShiaoPi

TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts

June 21 2013 17:00 GMT

#465

On June 22 2013 01:33 goodkarma wrote:

Show nested quote +

This list is the very definition of "easy targets." And why are you in list form dishing out multiple null reads?

I was asked....
not reading the thread gk?

goodkarma

United States1067 Posts

June 21 2013 17:12 GMT

#466

On June 22 2013 01:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

Maybe because i asked him about those specific three people?
Are you even reading the thread?

But what I see here is he doesn't have much opinion at all on pretty much anyone. I mean, I'm going to assume the people he "dislikes" are his scumreads. So he basically has me, for making what he perceives to be a "bad case" on an "easy target," and then we have two complete lurkers who I find it hard to imagine he could really have any read on at this point...

That you specifically asked for three reads he listed as null doesn't make this list any less bad. I find it odd that he doesn't seem to have much opinion at all on pretty much anyone except me at this point. Yet he has no problem looking involved by posting it out in list form...

goodkarma

United States1067 Posts

June 21 2013 17:14 GMT

#467

On June 22 2013 02:00 ShiaoPi wrote:

Show nested quote +

I was asked....
not reading the thread gk?

How are two complete lurkers list-worthy in your scum-reads section?

ShiaoPi

TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts

June 21 2013 17:14 GMT

#468

sooo gk, you have called my behavior out, am I now scum or not?

goodkarma

United States1067 Posts

June 21 2013 17:16 GMT

#469

##Vote: ShiaoPi

goodkarma

United States1067 Posts

June 21 2013 17:17 GMT

#470

Your answer

goodkarma

United States1067 Posts

June 21 2013 17:17 GMT

#471

What do you think of Marv btw Shao?

ShiaoPi

TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts

June 21 2013 17:17 GMT

#472

EBWOP:
I was asked for reads I gave reads. Those are my reads. I already said IIRC sloosh is much more lurkier as scum and therefore his absolute disappearance is worrying next to the fact that he can proof to be an asset if he is town aligned.
Syl is Syl and I merely said that his behavior has some similarities with the last game he played.

Now I am curious what are your scumreads?

goodkarma

United States1067 Posts

June 21 2013 17:17 GMT

#473

In B4 null.

ShiaoPi

TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts

June 21 2013 17:18 GMT

#474

marv is townleaning to me.
He had valid reasons voting me and valid reasons for unvoting. Nothing much to say

ShiaoPi

TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts

June 21 2013 17:20 GMT

#475

On June 22 2013 02:17 goodkarma wrote:
In B4 null.

how very cute.

ShiaoPi

TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts

June 21 2013 17:23 GMT

#476

ebwop:
let me just verify GK, I am scum to you because I:
-answered a question
-called you out on your shitty case

I am quite amused about this omgus.

Coagulation

United States9633 Posts

June 21 2013 17:34 GMT

#477

I see absolutely nothing of value has been said since I last posted around 8 hours ago.

Or did I miss something?

marv is supa obv scum tho.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

June 21 2013 17:54 GMT

#478

I hate you Coag. Take this as a promise to getting you killed if you do not contribute.

goodkarma

United States1067 Posts

June 21 2013 18:25 GMT

#479

On June 22 2013 02:23 ShiaoPi wrote:
ebwop:
let me just verify GK, I am scum to you because I:
-answered a question
-called you out on your shitty case

I am quite amused about this omgus.

That’s not it at all Shao. Allow me to elaborate, as apparently you haven’t read my filter close enough to understand.

1) Your only case, which happens to be on me, you claim to be not based on meta. And yet your opening post that highlights why you’re voting me says it’s based on how I played last game, which is the very definition of a meta-case.

You said:

On June 21 2013 23:02 ShiaoPi wrote:
gk's case on oats is pretty trash. Gut feeling says scum to me at the moment, maybe because it feels a lot like his posting last game, where we both were scum.

##vote: goodkarma

oh yamato is nullish dude who looks scummy if that clarification was needed

But then you go on to say:

On June 22 2013 00:43 ShiaoPi wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 22 2013 00:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:

On June 22 2013 00:32 ShiaoPi wrote:

On June 22 2013 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:

On June 22 2013 00:10 ShiaoPi wrote:
sorry went off for a round of dota

On June 21 2013 23:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you agree you were saying something just for sake of saying something?

The post I did was in order to verify if my impression of yamatos play is shared by everyone or at least some of the other players. so no that post was not only for the sake of saying something.

On June 21 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote:

On June 21 2013 23:08 ShiaoPi wrote:
Because that is what yamato does (at least in my memory)? Yes, it does not help anyone to determine his alignment right now, but what did you expect, words of wisdom in every post I do on day 1? It's just something to keep in mind.

I am thinking you are blowing this way out of proportion

When have you played with yamato that has given you this impression?

Cannot pin point it to a certain game right now, would have to look in his game history again, but it is more I always feel like wanting to shoot him for some posts he does. take it as you want, I am really dont feel like like searching for specifics right now.

Now on GK:
The case on oats is bad since I have not seen anything really alignment indicative from oats right now. gk is just using oats playstyle against him to look contributing and scumhunting, usual scum motivation stuff. His play also feels a lot like I swear this is normal mini mafia, which just ended recently and where I and gk were scum. (minus the inactive replacement shenanis)
Also gk is most surely familiar with oats' play so taking this "easy" target is something I think is clearly scummotivated

The case on Oats is bad for sure. I'm just trying to figure out if it's scum!GK or town!GK doing this. You seem to be sure of him being scum because you have voted for him. It does not matter if GK has done this as scum, the question you did not answer is do you have evidence that he has not done this as town? Is your meta-case valid or not?

I think mainly based on gut feeling and comparison with the last game as scum we had together. Cant remember the last time goodkarma rolled town with me playing as well.
Also you just objectively judged that the case is terribad, so why do you need so much meta? Meta is much more of a helpful factor in my opinion not necessarily the argument to get somebody lynched. So I see gk doing that case on oats which is scummy as shit and then compare it to his play in I swear, I think its similar so it reinforces my scumread on him...
To be honest I don't even know what your problem is

My problem is that you are voting for GK based on meta, because he once made a bad case against someone as scum. Guess what? Townies make bad cases too, especially early on in the game. I am not saying i think GK is town, but you seem to be so sure he is scum because of this meta you are describing, especially when you are under attack from some people now.

If you are going to make a meta case at least get your facts straight. Look at Les Mafia, look at GK's case on me and tell me that the case GK made can only come from a scum!GK.

its not specifically a meta case, meta is just supportive of objectively scummy play by fabricating a case based on a players inconsistent, wild playstyle

So it's not a meta-case? Then what scum motive did I have for making this case, which by the way, wasn't even a case + Show Spoiler +

(in case you were wondering, this post is what would constitute a case)

? Your vote post in fact sites my meta as the key point to voting me.. Which leaves the question: if truly this isn't meta-based, how is what I said clearly indicative of scum mentality? This is something that you'd need to address. And until you do, I can only assume that this is about meta, since that is all you've presented.

2) Besides me, you have taken lots of time aside to say how little of a stance or opinion you have on anyone else in the game. You go so far as to say that beyond me, the only people worth disliking are complete lurkers that have done literally nothing all game. This is one way that scum can maintain activity without adding any value.

In short, you should definitely know that one discussion point, even if you deem it bad, doesn’t mean I’m necessarily scum. I mean unless you have a firm meta-read or something? But wait, your case has nothing to do with meta…

Yet… Your case is in fact literally based solely on meta…

You’ve been contradicting yourself on this point. And this is the only point to your case... And this case is the only thing we can really judge you on since everything else in your filter surrounds null reads... And you can't be bothered to see how I'd play differently as town, which makes even less sense to me from a town perspective. Like why would you vote me for meta reasons, while completely overlooking how I'd make such a discussion point only as scum and not as town? I don't think you've even ever been in any of my towngames, so how can you be so sure of yourself that you'd drop a vote off this meta-case of yours based solely on your familiarity with my scumplay? In short, you're showing the disinterest in this game that I'd expect from scum. There's much more legwork I would have expected if you were actually pursuing me as a scumread as town.

This is further shown by the fact that your only real activity besides this case has been around making lots of null reads. Your list post especially doesn’t sit well with me.

yamato77

11589 Posts

June 21 2013 18:36 GMT

#480

ScumShaio, LXI

On April 22 2013 11:54 ShiaoPi wrote:
Sooo....more or less caught up now.
Let's first clarify my stance on BM:
I was curious if anyone would just jump on it without too much reasoning. Now on BM in general I loathe his play as it is fucking terrible as town, look at the endgame of LVII for more details.

Show nested quote +

Raynepelikoneet: Nothing to see here.
TheRavensName: Just some noobing around.
Hopeless1nder: Also nothing of note here.

There you go, one sentence each.
You also asked to have something on someone else with decent size?
I CHOOSE YOU SHARRANT!
In all seriousness, I do not like the direction your posting is going to:
You begin by heaping suspicion on TRN with some crap arguments and drop you vote. I would not take offense if this was just used in terms of pressuring someone who's play you think is lackluster. However you do not even refer to him again as scummy as soon as other people said that they thought he was noob. TRN is absent during this time but even after he returns you seem to have conveniently forgotten his existence when you saw that nothing was sticking.
I mean you do not even take into account the post TRN made after he popped back in:
+ Show Spoiler +

On April 22 2013 10:32 TheRavensName wrote:
Thank you for directing me to the podcast. I ended up listening to it while I did some work and read the thread before having to run off to do some errands. Huge help in making me understand a little bit more. Still not sure I understand how spam is town, but apparently the expliantion is spam is townie... Since basically they said if your really active no one will want to kill you and that seems like good scum motivation too.
+ Show Spoiler +

On April 22 2013 04:56 Sharrant wrote:
@TheRavensName
Who would you like to lynch right now?

Could you please link me to any games you have played on TL or elsewhere?

Do you think Oats is more likely scum, or more likely town?

Since I was asked, I have been in the last 3 NMM games in a row, your free to find them yourself (Isn't there a big database of games?) but I don't really think I can read into how I playbecause I ended up playing differently all three games.

I don't know how Oats plays so I dunno if he really just spams that much at the start, so I will ignore that. I like how he points out the thing about Palmer's town read and trying to act like it was super awesome when it didn't do much so yea.... I feel like its a good point and its the only thing of any real substance in his filter. So, I would like to see something that seems more useful; I don't want to make a judgement off of basically one real point repeated a few points.

I would be against lynching Rayn. In one of the Newbie games we played together we were in a similar situation and he took the opportunity to rip through me and just tunnel the entire game, so I think if he was scum this would be unlike him and I feel like I could have been a pretty easy push if he wanted to since he managed to basically do it before off less, even if there are much better people here who could see through it. (Unless he wantsto be my budy. dun dun dun.)

In the same vain, I think Sharrant started out by taking a really easy way out of attacking me right out the gate and then just focuses on me and pushes around till hearing a few people saying that I was at least not scum, and then hops on Rayn without any real expliantion besides that hes going after BM for the miller soft claim and the fact that BM seems to be being useless, but that makes Ray more scummy then BM or someone else when Ray is actually being fairly active?

So based off what I can figure out, I dislike Sharrant. He was convinced I was vote worthy, then hoped off before I got a chance to respond, but doesn't want to make a comment on BM til lBM shows up. Seems sketchy for me, and would probably be my vote target at the moment, but there is plenty of reading to be done and lots of time for more things to read.

Now if I recall correctly your potential scumlist right now should read something like: Rayne, TRN, Sylencia ?
Soooo what happened to your read on TRN?

Contemporary ScumShiao

On June 22 2013 00:10 ShiaoPi wrote:
sorry went off for a round of dota

Show nested quote +

The post I did was in order to verify if my impression of yamatos play is shared by everyone or at least some of the other players. so no that post was not only for the sake of saying something.

Show nested quote +

+ Show Spoiler +

Buuuuuuuuuuuuulllllllllllsssssssshhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttt

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