EPTI don't like that post of yours Wiggles, I dunno...seems your reasons for thinking chaoser is scum are kind of weak.
But well, if I'm still alive on D2 I'll reanalyze the thread, hey! Maybe you are right about chaoser who knows?
iGrok's Good Clean Old-fashioned Mafia - Page 24
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I don't like that post of yours Wiggles, I dunno...seems your reasons for thinking chaoser is scum are kind of weak. But well, if I'm still alive on D2 I'll reanalyze the thread, hey! Maybe you are right about chaoser who knows? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 13 2012 02:55 gonzaw wrote: Hmm...I'm leaning on BrownBear-Wiggles-Radfield 2 scum-SK team for now. I don't like that post of yours Wiggles, I dunno...seems your reasons for thinking chaoser is scum are kind of weak. But well, if I'm still alive on D2 I'll reanalyze the thread, hey! Maybe you are right about chaoser who knows? What about them are weak? If you'd like me to explain in more detail or go over something in a different way I can. Just saying they're weak doesn't really help me if you don't think he's scum or the case is bad. | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On June 12 2012 07:07 Hesmyrr wrote: I was actually waiting for you to post the analysis regarding VE, since I couldn't find concrete argument to merit analysis post yet. Currently I find MZ lynch to be better than that of Palmar but I am not going to get stuck on black-white thinking; the fact that GreYMisT+VE have voted him is cause for concern which is why I am reserving my judgment until the last moment. Personally the interactions happened between VisceraEyes and you are making me extremely wary. I dont like this post. He says he is hesitant to vote MZ becuase me and VE voted for him, but through his entire filter I get the idea that he has a null read on me. He then says he is ready to swap up until the last moment. mentioning me here in a negative light could be him justifying a future vote swap onto either me or VE. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:30 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What about them are weak? If you'd like me to explain in more detail or go over something in a different way I can. Just saying they're weak doesn't really help me if you don't think he's scum or the case is bad. On June 13 2012 02:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote: ... Between MZ and Palmar, I would have truthfully voted for MZ. Out of other people, I would have voted Chaoser. The reasons for this are that he's done about three things that make him look off to me. First, he did that weird thing with the RNG. I have no idea how that was supposed to work though, because RNG doesn't work with just someone posting a number and saying that's who we're lynching. But, after not enough people supported him, and I called him out on it, he says that it was for pressure and to see how Ace reacted. That sounds silly though, because the pressure would always be weak, and Ace didn't back off RNG but Chaoser still pushed him for it. Like I said, false pressure. This is inherently weak because it relates to the RNG bits from earlier on. chaoser could have easily done that as town or scum. Second, I don't understand his initial case on Grey at all. I don't know what he means by "you show no suspicion to the usage of terms", but I guess he's saying that he's not suspicious of different names and that makes him scummy? But this is an iGrok game. I lost Sleeper Cell I because I lynched a guy for having a green bolded name when no one else did. I learned my lesson, and I know iGrok has done similar things in lots of his games since then with regards to flavour and role name, because flavour hunting is just stupid. So, it makes sense for GreY not to necessarily question that they have different names, which makes Chaoser's accusation weird and off-base. This seems weak as well. You find chaoser suspicious because he found Grey's reaction to my "joke" suspicious, only based on a game you (but not chaoser) played (and he would have no way to know that). Then he calls out GreY for wanting to lynch me and not MZ. The thing is though, there's nothing stopping GreY from thinking I made a bad post even if MZ made a worse post, so that's not really a valid for saying he's scum. Just because something is worse than something else doesn't mean that other thing can't still be bad (On a side note, I don't think my post was bad, this is from GreY's PoV :p). So again, I don't like Chaoser's reasoning for voting GreY. This may be true or not, but doesn't seem too strong either. Third, Chaoser didn't change his vote from GreY to MZ. There wasn't enough support for the GreY lynch it seemed, and the votes between Palmar and MZ were very close. Chaoser said he'd prefer an MZ lynch after a GreY lynch, and that he thought Palmar was playing well. However, he never ended up changing his vote to ensure someone he thought was scummy would get lynched instead of someone he thought was playing well. That stinks. Well..MZ did flip town. chaoser not voting someone that flipped town would be better considering the circumstances. I do find that a little bit odd, but he said he prefered a Grey lynch rather than a MZ one, and I was voting Grey at that time as well (while MZ only had like 3 votes on him), so at that time him keeping his vote on Grey isn't alignment telling. Yes, him not changing his vote to MZ later seems weird, because he said MZ was his 2nd lynch. But all in all your reasons for thinking chaoser is scum seem weak to me. What about his interactions with other players? What about his behaviour and aggressiveness? Do you think he's scum because of them as well? But meh. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:40 gonzaw wrote: You didn't actually respond to this point. The point is that he makes a fake RNG on Ace. Ace calls him out for making a fake RNG. Then Chaoser tries to turn it around that Ace is backing off his original plan of having an RNG lynch. It has nothing to do with whether RNG is bad or good, or whatever. It has to do with how Chaoser dealt with it. This is inherently weak because it relates to the RNG bits from earlier on. chaoser could have easily done that as town or scum. It's like if someone said we should lynch lurkers near the beginning of the day. Then person #2 comes in three hours later and says that the person who made that post has only made three posts in total, so we should lynch them for lurking. Then the original person comes back and says that they hadn't even defined what constituted lurking so the vote is silly. Then person #2 responds by claiming that the original poster is backing off of his policy lynch of killing lurkers now that he's been put under pressure, and thus implying he's scummy for it. The reasoning is fallacious, and it parallels what Chaoser did with the RNG lynch. He just made a number. Ace said we hadn't even talked about how we would determine the random number. Chaoser calls him out and implies he's scummy because he's backing off of his policy, when Ace didn't do anything near that. The logic isn't right, and the pressure is non-existent because of that. That's why I don't like Chaoser's response to my question, and think it makes him look scummy. This seems weak as well. You find chaoser suspicious because he found Grey's reaction to my "joke" suspicious, only based on a game you (but not chaoser) played (and he would have no way to know that). GreY mentions this himself while talking to chaoser, but chaoser never concedes the point: + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2012 09:33 GreYMisT wrote: Im not suspicious because me and iGrok have hosted together multiple times. I know not to put stock in Role PMs being different as he changes them on purpose, or gives them different names, he also puts sample Role PMs in the OP. so yea, I don't put stock in Vanilla townie being too different from Vanilla towny He ignores it, even though that was the reason mentioned for why he initially voted for GreY. If he had made some sort of post taking it back, or revoking what he had said, I'd feel better, but he doesn't. He just lets it stand even though it's a silly reason for thinking GreY is scum. Also, to counter what you said, this is becoming a pretty frequent practice in games with lots of flavour to help deter people from trying to confirm with role PMs while not just mass modkilling them. For a counter-example, chaoser played in responsibility mafia that had two vigs outed on Day 1 because one claimed and the other counter-claimed because their role names were different and we ended up losing one to a mislynch on Day 1 and the other that Night. So, he has played in a game like that, and it's still a terrible reason to vote someone. This is the main thrust of Chaoser's case against GreY. The logic is again silly. He's saying that GreY is scum because he called me out for what he saw as a bad post but didn't call out MZ at the same time for what Chaoser believes is a worst post. That's one of the worst reasons for calling someone scum I've seen. It's like calling someone scum if they make a case on someone and ask someone who made another case to explain it again, and you think that second person's scummier. Just because GreY called me out and not MZ isn't a good enough reason to say he's scum, and it's a weird reason at that. It looks like Chaoser's just trying to make stuff up to support his initial accusation. Well..MZ did flip town. chaoser not voting someone that flipped town would be better considering the circumstances. I do find that a little bit odd, but he said he prefered a Grey lynch rather than a MZ one, and I was voting Grey at that time as well (while MZ only had like 3 votes on him), so at that time him keeping his vote on Grey isn't alignment telling. Yes, him not changing his vote to MZ later seems weird, because he said MZ was his 2nd lynch. But all in all your reasons for thinking chaoser is scum seem weak to me. What about his interactions with other players? What about his behaviour and aggressiveness? Do you think he's scum because of them as well? But meh. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22634 Posts
Also, in case I die, this is the list of town from towniest to scummiest. Radfield VisceraEyes Greymist Ace chaoser mrwiggles gonzaw BrownBear | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22634 Posts
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:41 Palmar wrote: No, Rad is double confirmed, you're like only three quarters of confirmed. You DID hear me say I have a gun right? Cause thems fightin' words. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22634 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Also because I'm still having doubts about Grey :/ | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Day 2 ![[image loading]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120131063404/swordgirls/images/3/33/200075L.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111016181845/swordgirls/images/7/77/Student_Ldr._Layna.jpg) Sage Espirit Dreamflower and Prefect Layna Ace It had been a restless night. iGrok dreaded the thought of what Iri Flina could do at night. Vampires were so troublesome, especially set loose in a girls' school. Speaking of which, why exactly did they lock a vampire in the school basement to begin with? This would certainly have to be investigated. And who better to do that than Sage Espirit Dreamflower? iGrok called her in. But before she could begin to speak, Dreamflower slammed a large envelope down on iGrok's desk. "Do you know what this is?", demanded Dreamflower. iGrok studied the package carefully, and noted the seal of the Vita Public School embossed. What the hell was this? The school administration never gave her any trouble. iGrok had to shake her head, she had no idea what this message was. "One of our students, Prefect Layna Ace has been sent home with an "illness", and is apparently not expected to recover by the end of the school year. When I tried to find out what kind of illness, they wouldn't tell me. What's going on?" Dreamflower was really worried. She was always protective of those she was responsible for, and recent events seemed to have put her on edge. "iGrok, I saw Ace yesterday, she was fine." iGrok didn't know for sure what had happened to this girl, but she could guess. The "illness" could probably be caused by two things. Either Iri Flina had found a victim, and the school board wanted to prevent a panic, or Cinia Pacifica had used her politcal power to have a student removed to make the school look bad. This wasn't good. Things were quickly escalating beyond her control. Regardless, until the current situation was sorted out, there was nothing she could do about them. She could only hope that it was resolved soon. And why wasn't Qatol back yet? Prefect Layna Ace has been myseriously sent home indefinitely due to "illness"! [You there! Watch how you move! Don't mess up your skirt! Just look at how you're presenting yourself!] It is now Day 2! Please remember to vote. Day ends in 48 hours, 02:00 GMT (+00:00). Please remember that flavor is flavor and nothing more  | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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