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Actually, from what I'm hearing, most of the people from those areas posting here don't think any real massacre occurred, nor do they think that those massacres were wrong.
Tibet, Taiwan, etc are apparently not important enough to make their own decisions, so those murders were just fine.
Japan committed atrocities, but China has their land back. China committed atrocities and still controls the land.
You need to go find some actual Japanese taught individuals. The examples I have heard seem to point to the fact that, today, everyone is taught about the events during WW2 / pre-WW2. Just go ask some Japanese before you start saying they aren't told the correct information today.
You're all making assumptions that aren't backed up by fact.
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Last year several Japanese exchange students came to our class while we were studying about the Japanese occupation of parts of China, when we did posters on the Rape of Nanking they absolutely refused to believe that this had happened, they weren't taught about it. And no, they weren't retarded.
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And you seem to be making assumptions about my knowledge of these matters.
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Yes, but is that how it is throughout Japan? What if those students had just not arrived at the educational status where they would normally learn about those events? Different countries teach different things at different educational levels.
This is apparently the case, since there were already some posts about people's Japanese friends that did learn about it in Japan.
You should also keep in mind that if those students had not learned about it yet, their sense of Japanese pride is probably what drove them to denial.
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On April 24 2004 16:16 OriginalLogic wrote:
Yes, but is that how it is throughout Japan? What if those students had just not arrived at the educational status where they would normally learn about those events? Different countries teach different things at different educational levels.
This is apparently the case, since there were already some posts about people's Japanese friends that did learn about it in Japan.
You should also keep in mind that if those students had not learned about it yet, their sense of Japanese pride is probably what drove them to denial.
A while ago there were some Koreans I believe that sued the Japanese governments decision to remove any mention of "comfort women" from the Japanese textbooks. I suppose you will come up with some other argument of this, but think about how LIKELY that what you saying is happening.
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I think that some of the students knowing about the happenings and some not, depending on location, is a lot more plausible than a Japan-wide plot to erase the event from their history. That's where our thinking differs 
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On April 24 2004 17:08 OriginalLogic wrote: I think that some of the students knowing about the happenings and some not, depending on location, is a lot more plausible than a Japan-wide plot to erase the event from their history. That's where our thinking differs
well if the Japanese education system was controlled at a federal or state level the curriculums set out would be very similar if not the same. Thus, i doubt that the location of a japanese student will change what they learn at school.
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On April 24 2004 09:41 LastRomance wrote: Show nested quote +On April 24 2004 09:27 DV8 wrote:
Ok so you don't have a soviet russia anymore to worry about why does china still have control over tibet? U.S dont have to worry about Soviet, why do they have bases in Japan and nuclear warhead aimed at Russia. The Cold War is over, why are there stil sanctions on North Korea and Vietnam?
North Korea continues to be a rogue state, Tibet's nuking no one any time soon.
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I don't know how off topic this is, and it's really just an innocent question: Does the Chinese government control the media? Didn't our Sec. Of State have to go through weeks of bullshit just to get an uncensored speech out to the Chinese, then the government put it on TV at 3am?
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Sweden33719 Posts
I seem to remember reading about certain (in this specific case, which was on some documentary I think, it was some page for poems and stuff I think) webpages getting shut down/blocked for Chinese viewers, would you say that's another myth or is it real?
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On April 25 2004 08:08 0_0 wrote:
no, yet another myth, the chinese government does not control media, it would be way too costly especially with inet accessible easily(pc bangs run 3-10yuan/hr sometimes less).
0_0 that's why the chinese government shut down some 80,000 (correct me if i'm wrong) cafes right ?
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the reason they r shutting down cafes are because some of them are dangerously unhygenic and fire hazardrous, not because they want to block ppl from using internet.
they closed down alot of cafes during last year in an effort to fight sars.
anyway... like O_O said, it is useless try to block internet, u shutdown one site... 2 sec later u get another one...
Yes, government tried to control media, they controlled media before internet was widespread... but now days... ppl are basically free to read, watch wateva they want...
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Hmm well I know that alot of Chinese living in Japan are criminals and such, maybe that's why the Japanese don't really like Chinese?
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lol i remember last year in tokyo
there was this chinese guy who went on a rampage and killed and raped everyone in a japanese house... when this got to the media... it made frontpage and now the japanese are scared shitless of chinese...
dont kno if this is true or not... i heard the guy escaped back to china and live as a hero in some village...
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Funny, considering what's been said in this thread.
China shuts down 8,600 Internet cafes in two months
Tue Apr 27,10:37 AM ET
BEIJING (AFP) - China has shut down 8,600 Internet cafes in the last two months as part of an ongoing crackdown on the media.
AFP/File Photo
"Since our video conference on this issue on February 19, we have banned 8,600 underground Internet bars," the People's Daily quoted Minister of Culture Sun Jiazheng as saying.
"At present, there still exists many problems with the management at Internet cafes and Internet service providers."
Sun suggested the campaign was far from over and urged governments at the grassroots level to crack down on Internet bars providing services to under-age users and to impose stiffer fines on cafes violating regulations.
Overseeing the crackdown was a special bureau headed by Sun, which has linked up with 10 other ministries responsible for areas including education, law, finance, civil affairs, youth and telecommunications, the paper said.
The crackdown comes after the propaganda ministry annnounced last October a new "educational campaign" aimed at reaffirming Communist Party control over the press, including television, print and the electronic media.
Despite government restrictions, China is second only to the United States in the number of people online, with users rising to 79.5 million by December 2003 from 59.1 million a year earlier.
Internet cafes are often the only way to access the web for many Chinese due to the prohibitive costs of home computers, especially in rural villages and towns.
Besides cracking down on anti-government and subversive material, the measures are also aimed at curbing pornography and banning those under 16 from Internet gaming bars that have become magnets for rural and village youth.
In the last two months, the government has also greatly restricted web logs (blogs) and discussion forums, banned Internet bars from operating within 200 meters (660 feet) of schools and set up video surveillance cameras in Internet cafes in Shanghai.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1510&e=3&u=/afp/20040427/tc_afp/china_internet_media_040427143755
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Braavos36400 Posts
On April 24 2004 16:05 OriginalLogic wrote:
Actually, from what I'm hearing, most of the people from those areas posting here don't think any real massacre occurred, nor do they think that those massacres were wrong.
Tibet, Taiwan, etc are apparently not important enough to make their own decisions, so those murders were just fine.
Japan committed atrocities, but China has their land back. China committed atrocities and still controls the land.
You need to go find some actual Japanese taught individuals. The examples I have heard seem to point to the fact that, today, everyone is taught about the events during WW2 / pre-WW2. Just go ask some Japanese before you start saying they aren't told the correct information today.
You're all making assumptions that aren't backed up by fact.
Every country has their own slant on this historical events. It's just that in Japan's case, it is particularly egregious. As for your contention that the massacres may not have occurred, please read Iris Chang's "Rape of Nanking", which documents through the writings of German and other caucasian officials exactly what happened during the Nanjing Massacre. Also, you also claim that the massacres are justified because China has committed murders in Tibet and Taiwan. The logic behind this makes absolutely no sense. Does this mean that Japan can drop atomic bomb on the United States? Does it mean that Vietnam can invade and kill US civilians? Atrocities are independent events and should be treated as such--justifying them with other atrocities is pointless and stupid.
SECRET OMG
+ Show Spoiler +
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On April 27 2004 11:37 Hot_Bid wrote: Show nested quote +On April 24 2004 16:05 OriginalLogic wrote:
Actually, from what I'm hearing, most of the people from those areas posting here don't think any real massacre occurred, nor do they think that those massacres were wrong.
Tibet, Taiwan, etc are apparently not important enough to make their own decisions, so those murders were just fine.
Japan committed atrocities, but China has their land back. China committed atrocities and still controls the land.
You need to go find some actual Japanese taught individuals. The examples I have heard seem to point to the fact that, today, everyone is taught about the events during WW2 / pre-WW2. Just go ask some Japanese before you start saying they aren't told the correct information today.
You're all making assumptions that aren't backed up by fact. Every country has their own slant on this historical events. It's just that in Japan's case, it is particularly egregious. As for your contention that the massacres may not have occurred, please read Iris Chang's "Rape of Nanking", which documents through the writings of German and other caucasian officials exactly what happened during the Nanjing Massacre. Also, you also claim that the massacres are justified because China has committed murders in Tibet and Taiwan. The logic behind this makes absolutely no sense. Does this mean that Japan can drop atomic bomb on the United States? Does it mean that Vietnam can invade and kill US civilians? Atrocities are independent events and should be treated as such--justifying them with other atrocities is pointless and stupid.
I don't think that's what he's doing - I think that he's just pointing out that the Chinese are hypocrites in this respect.
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On April 27 2004 11:37 Hot_Bid wrote: Show nested quote +On April 24 2004 16:05 OriginalLogic wrote:
Actually, from what I'm hearing, most of the people from those areas posting here don't think any real massacre occurred, nor do they think that those massacres were wrong.
Tibet, Taiwan, etc are apparently not important enough to make their own decisions, so those murders were just fine.
Japan committed atrocities, but China has their land back. China committed atrocities and still controls the land.
You need to go find some actual Japanese taught individuals. The examples I have heard seem to point to the fact that, today, everyone is taught about the events during WW2 / pre-WW2. Just go ask some Japanese before you start saying they aren't told the correct information today.
You're all making assumptions that aren't backed up by fact. Every country has their own slant on this historical events. It's just that in Japan's case, it is particularly egregious. As for your contention that the massacres may not have occurred, please read Iris Chang's "Rape of Nanking", which documents through the writings of German and other caucasian officials exactly what happened during the Nanjing Massacre. Also, you also claim that the massacres are justified because China has committed murders in Tibet and Taiwan. The logic behind this makes absolutely no sense. Does this mean that Japan can drop atomic bomb on the United States? Does it mean that Vietnam can invade and kill US civilians? Atrocities are independent events and should be treated as such--justifying them with other atrocities is pointless and stupid. Um when did he claim the massacres in nanjing were justified? He mentioned the hypocrisy of how china handled tibet and taiwan.
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On April 27 2004 11:02 choboPEon wrote: Funny, considering what's been said in this thread. Show nested quote +China shuts down 8,600 Internet cafes in two months
Tue Apr 27,10:37 AM ET
BEIJING (AFP) - China has shut down 8,600 Internet cafes in the last two months as part of an ongoing crackdown on the media.
AFP/File Photo
"Since our video conference on this issue on February 19, we have banned 8,600 underground Internet bars," the People's Daily quoted Minister of Culture Sun Jiazheng as saying.
"At present, there still exists many problems with the management at Internet cafes and Internet service providers."
Sun suggested the campaign was far from over and urged governments at the grassroots level to crack down on Internet bars providing services to under-age users and to impose stiffer fines on cafes violating regulations.
Overseeing the crackdown was a special bureau headed by Sun, which has linked up with 10 other ministries responsible for areas including education, law, finance, civil affairs, youth and telecommunications, the paper said.
The crackdown comes after the propaganda ministry annnounced last October a new "educational campaign" aimed at reaffirming Communist Party control over the press, including television, print and the electronic media.
Despite government restrictions, China is second only to the United States in the number of people online, with users rising to 79.5 million by December 2003 from 59.1 million a year earlier.
Internet cafes are often the only way to access the web for many Chinese due to the prohibitive costs of home computers, especially in rural villages and towns.
Besides cracking down on anti-government and subversive material, the measures are also aimed at curbing pornography and banning those under 16 from Internet gaming bars that have become magnets for rural and village youth.
In the last two months, the government has also greatly restricted web logs (blogs) and discussion forums, banned Internet bars from operating within 200 meters (660 feet) of schools and set up video surveillance cameras in Internet cafes in Shanghai.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1510&e=3&u=/afp/20040427/tc_afp/china_internet_media_040427143755
This media is obviously biased(as is China's more than likely), I was in China the last time pc bangs were closed, and it was because several pc bangs had burned down(along with EVERYONE inside), pc bangs are extremely unhygenic as haduken said earlier, and extremely prone to fires(most have 1 exit), also they seem to have a knack for breeding pickpockets and other thieves of the sort. In general they are not very safe places. I have been to several and it IS rather hard to find a decent pc bang. In fact I have been "jumped" more than once at pc bangs. Many of you here have not been to a pc bang in Asia/China, some would envision safe fire exits, nice spread out computers, good lighting, many windows. But thats not the case in many pc bangs looking to save money where ever they can, they don't have regulations like we do in the US. And oh yeah, believe me, when you jam together about 30-40 desktops in a single small room, it gets pretty bloody fucking hot.
Just a side note, VERY FEW pc bangs look as nice as Boxer's Dropship Cafe, in fact I'd go as far as saying there are probably no cafes of that caliber in China.
Well thats my view as someone who has actually had some experience in these matters.
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EPT
