Spades retires from Western Wolves - Page 23

On June 06 2012 07:15 MVega wrote:
Love all the talk about "Man up" or taking the "coward's way out." - It's a video game, not a murder trial or a fight to the death. Holy shit.

On June 06 2012 07:12 Maekchu wrote:
Spade haters? Is there anything to love?

Let's say he is proven innocent on this hacking issue. It has been proven that he have hacked in BW, and stream cheated in SC2.

Honestly, I cannot understand this guy gets so much support. Obviously he is just a bad player and a bad sport. It's only good that he gets removed from the scene.

On June 06 2012 07:00 mrtomjones wrote:

lol You need to get your understanding beyond the high school level. He WOULD leave even if he was innocent. In fact it salvages his reputation slightly with other teams if he can prove innocence because he put the team before his own self.

On June 06 2012 07:12 Roggay wrote:

Catz, Illusion and TT1 did this on stream.
Well, I guess you are talking about more reputable than that?

On June 06 2012 07:17 Maekchu wrote:


Yeah, why try to keep our COMPETITIVE games hack free? People should just be allowed to hack with no consequences. It's just a game after all... -.-

On June 06 2012 07:19 mrtomjones wrote:

Almost everyone posting in this thread that is not posting about how happy they are is posting that they hated the mob rule approach that was taken and how Spades had no shot of proving innocence. He may be innocent but it will take a ton to prove it now.

On June 06 2012 07:21 TBone- wrote:


Morrow, Nony, and Artosis have more experience dealing with this from Broodwar than probably anybody else. And to my knowledge, Catz and crew didn't come to a conclusion, nor did they speak for the community , which I believe who I suggested could do.

On June 06 2012 07:21 mrtomjones wrote:

Yah lets talk about something completely different than he is and make some ridiculous statement and generalization that he never even suggested.

For those saying he didn't handle it well. He is NOT a pro athlete with a publicist and tons of help in how to deal with it. He is you, or me, and not many people in his position would handle this with the skill that everyone on the outside looking in thinks he should.

For those calling him a coward because he is leaving his team... he had no choice.. educate yourself before calling people a coward. People in these situations very often lose a lot even if innocent. Also.. he made lots of posts defending himself.. what part of that is cowardice?

On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.

I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.

Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.

The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.

This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.

The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best.

On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.

I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.

Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.

The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.

This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.

The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best.

On June 06 2012 07:23 Roggay wrote:

Im pretty sure they came to the conclusion that Spades was hacking. Atleast Catz and Illusion, I think TT1 was 75% sure (from his word).
And I don't really see what a Broodwar experience would add to the discussion.

On June 06 2012 07:25 petered wrote:


I appreciate this post very much. If he was truly innocent, though, why the hell did he leave the team? He has no one to blame but himself, in that case, for people supposing his guilt.

Yes the thread was shitty and yes Catz and crew's analysis was some of most most terrible bullshit I have ever seen (they should be ashamed). All that being said, if he was truly innocent then he needs to just suck it up and fight. Bowing out was the worst thing to do.

On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.

I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.

Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.

The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.

This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.

The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best.

On June 06 2012 07:22 Maekchu wrote:


My point still stand that whether or not he is innocent in this specific issue. It has already been proven he have cheated in the past. How many chances should a person get? I simply don't understand people supporting a person like this.

On June 06 2012 07:25 TBone- wrote:


Because they dealt with it for like 10 years man. They know what to look for.

On June 06 2012 07:25 petered wrote:


I appreciate this post very much. If he was truly innocent, though, why the hell did he leave the team? He has no one to blame but himself, in that case, for people supposing his guilt.

Yes the thread was shitty and yes Catz and crew's analysis was some of most most terrible bullshit I have ever seen (they should be ashamed). All that being said, if he was truly innocent then he needs to just suck it up and fight. Bowing out was the worst thing to do.