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This is not the place to argue whether or not spades hacked, do that in the relevant thread please.
(this is in effect page 10 onward) |
Why is everyone giving him sympathy in this thread? A day ago, "He needs to be punished! Remove him from his team, ban him from all tournaments!" Now some sort of punishment has actually occurred, "I hate this community, another successful witch hunt...", etc.
He deserves to not be on a team. He blatantly maphacked, he was caught doing it.
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On June 06 2012 07:42 HansK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.
I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.
Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.
The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.
This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.
The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best. It still amazes me people type MASSIVE amounts of text and barley understand the situation. To sum it up for you, all the replays he posted he is playing legit and no one was trying to say other wise. The train of thought is he maphacked for this in particular show match, and there is heavy heavy evidence to support that. To me the most compelling is the following: In his show match games[7 of them] he regularly: 1. Sends his scv to scout and goes in the base then out of the base with out ever looking at the scv[or scouting the second gas] or buildings. [Who would EVER send a scv in and out of a base and not look at any buildings...] 2. Never once, EVER no matter what looks into the fog of war and has frequent 5-10 second screen pauces. 3. Does very odd scans where the only way you can do them is the mini-map. This is all with out including the very very odd moves.. such as stimming and running back all his marines 1 inch away from siege with out ever seeing the tanks. There is dozens of very odd stuff like this in a small Bo7 when he very rarely does that kinda stuff in a 100 game sample. Compare this to his normal ladder games where: 1. He ALWAYS checks his SCV and scouts both gas.. 2. He ALWAYS looks into the fog of war like 10+ times a game.. 3. Scans 100% different [looking into fog of war] every single game... I find it rather odd you made that huge post[lots of effort] with out even realizing no one thought he hacked in the replays he posted him self.
It amazes me that someone who is not semi pro is trying to judge someone who competes at MLG events and such.
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So we have come to a conclusion on 100% accurate evidence? Because if not then he's innocent to me.
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On June 06 2012 07:45 Jedclark wrote:
Why is everyone giving him sympathy in this thread? A day ago, "He needs to be punished! Remove him from his team, ban him from all tournaments!" Now some sort of punishment has actually occurred, "I hate this community, another successful witch hunt...", etc.
He deserves to not be on a team. He blatantly maphacked, he was caught doing it.
TeamLiquid is not some sort of hivemind.
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On June 06 2012 07:47 TBone- wrote:
So we have come to a conclusion on 100% accurate evidence? Because if not then he's innocent to me.
You can't prove everything 100% of the time. Going with your logic there would be a lot of evil people out there running around free.
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On June 06 2012 07:46 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:42 HansK wrote:On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.
I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.
Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.
The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.
This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.
The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best. It still amazes me people type MASSIVE amounts of text and barley understand the situation. To sum it up for you, all the replays he posted he is playing legit and no one was trying to say other wise. The train of thought is he maphacked for this in particular show match, and there is heavy heavy evidence to support that. To me the most compelling is the following: In his show match games[7 of them] he regularly: 1. Sends his scv to scout and goes in the base then out of the base with out ever looking at the scv[or scouting the second gas] or buildings. [Who would EVER send a scv in and out of a base and not look at any buildings...] 2. Never once, EVER no matter what looks into the fog of war and has frequent 5-10 second screen pauces. 3. Does very odd scans where the only way you can do them is the mini-map. This is all with out including the very very odd moves.. such as stimming and running back all his marines 1 inch away from siege with out ever seeing the tanks. There is dozens of very odd stuff like this in a small Bo7 when he very rarely does that kinda stuff in a 100 game sample. Compare this to his normal ladder games where: 1. He ALWAYS checks his SCV and scouts both gas.. 2. He ALWAYS looks into the fog of war like 10+ times a game.. 3. Scans 100% different [looking into fog of war] every single game... I find it rather odd you made that huge post[lots of effort] with out even realizing no one thought he hacked in the replays he posted him self. It amazes me that someone who is not semi pro is trying to judge someone who competes at MLG events and such.
Cause all sports commentators needs to be top level players in order to understand the game?
People can still give their opinion whether or not they are part of the top player base... -.-
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On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active.
All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player.
He's always been a Grandmaster? You sure about that? I've watched him for a long time (since before he was ever featured)I seem to remember a lot of rank 1 masters, but...
It seems you think that any low GM can reach rank 1 GM along with a fantastic win rate... with all due respect I think you are mistaken.
And how come we never saw Spades stream during this time of being #1 GM (or close to #1)? Was he afraid his fan base would blow up too much? Viewer count would crash his computer? It was the biggest opportunity of his career to get his name out... doesn't make sense, does it? Now read the last 2 or 3 paragraphs of gIX's statement - the pieces start to fit. Spades' explanation to his vanishing when he was #1 GM after leaving Reign? Oh, he didn't give one.
Off-topic (sort of) What would you do if you hit #1 GM Attero, would you hide for a few weeks? No, I think you'd be streaming your ass off.
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On June 06 2012 07:46 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:42 HansK wrote:On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.
I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.
Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.
The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.
This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.
The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best. It still amazes me people type MASSIVE amounts of text and barley understand the situation. To sum it up for you, all the replays he posted he is playing legit and no one was trying to say other wise. The train of thought is he maphacked for this in particular show match, and there is heavy heavy evidence to support that. To me the most compelling is the following: In his show match games[7 of them] he regularly: 1. Sends his scv to scout and goes in the base then out of the base with out ever looking at the scv[or scouting the second gas] or buildings. [Who would EVER send a scv in and out of a base and not look at any buildings...] 2. Never once, EVER no matter what looks into the fog of war and has frequent 5-10 second screen pauces. 3. Does very odd scans where the only way you can do them is the mini-map. This is all with out including the very very odd moves.. such as stimming and running back all his marines 1 inch away from siege with out ever seeing the tanks. There is dozens of very odd stuff like this in a small Bo7 when he very rarely does that kinda stuff in a 100 game sample. Compare this to his normal ladder games where: 1. He ALWAYS checks his SCV and scouts both gas.. 2. He ALWAYS looks into the fog of war like 10+ times a game.. 3. Scans 100% different [looking into fog of war] every single game... I find it rather odd you made that huge post[lots of effort] with out even realizing no one thought he hacked in the replays he posted him self. It amazes me that someone who is not semi pro is trying to judge someone who competes at MLG events and such.
Anyone who has money can compete at MLG. lol. And someone does not need to be a pro to analyze gameplay patterns.
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On June 06 2012 07:49 Maekchu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:46 mrtomjones wrote:On June 06 2012 07:42 HansK wrote:On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.
I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.
Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.
The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.
This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.
The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best. It still amazes me people type MASSIVE amounts of text and barley understand the situation. To sum it up for you, all the replays he posted he is playing legit and no one was trying to say other wise. The train of thought is he maphacked for this in particular show match, and there is heavy heavy evidence to support that. To me the most compelling is the following: In his show match games[7 of them] he regularly: 1. Sends his scv to scout and goes in the base then out of the base with out ever looking at the scv[or scouting the second gas] or buildings. [Who would EVER send a scv in and out of a base and not look at any buildings...] 2. Never once, EVER no matter what looks into the fog of war and has frequent 5-10 second screen pauces. 3. Does very odd scans where the only way you can do them is the mini-map. This is all with out including the very very odd moves.. such as stimming and running back all his marines 1 inch away from siege with out ever seeing the tanks. There is dozens of very odd stuff like this in a small Bo7 when he very rarely does that kinda stuff in a 100 game sample. Compare this to his normal ladder games where: 1. He ALWAYS checks his SCV and scouts both gas.. 2. He ALWAYS looks into the fog of war like 10+ times a game.. 3. Scans 100% different [looking into fog of war] every single game... I find it rather odd you made that huge post[lots of effort] with out even realizing no one thought he hacked in the replays he posted him self. It amazes me that someone who is not semi pro is trying to judge someone who competes at MLG events and such. Cause all sports commentators needs to be top level players in order to understand the game? People can still give their opinion whether or not they are part of the top player base... -.-
and people can discredit them by saying they have no-say compared to a pro player.
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On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.
I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.
Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.
The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.
This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.
The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best.
The only thing you seem to be defending him with is that "I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions." and that he posted replays of his recent games. First off, the dismissal of Illusion is completely irrational and honestly incredibly stupid, if you actually listened to what everyone in the Skype call said about the issue, they all agreed that the circumstantial evidence which could be explained by "bad play" was put off to the side because, like they said, it could have been due to bad play. They never used those examples as a part of their main evidence. In addition to that, if you watched the army movements that he executed during the matches (specifically the game vs LucifroN on Tal'Darim), you can clearly see he was defending against attacks out of his vision, and as Illusion and Drewbie pointed out, he never had a marine scouting the flank positions, which is what every Grandmaster-level Terran would do in that situation. There is also a lot more evidence throughout the entire broadcast, but because you're his friend, you decided to listen to the only thing you could hear which could be easily disproven. On to the next point you made (about him uploading the replays), you mention that "he does things that no hacker would do". I'm not sure if you're just in-denial or very stupid, but, let's say he was hacking, why would he upload the replays that displayed him hacking..? That makes no sense at all, and can't even be a point to argue about. He also suffered more by uploading those replays, because it gave everyone proof that he plays completely differently in every ladder game than in the games he was accused of hacking in. You could say that he plays differently in tournaments vs. ladder games, but, as it's been repeated by nearly every progamer, it's impossible to change mechanics like that, especially at a grandmaster level. It seems like you're trying to defend your friend while ignoring every piece of evidence, kind of similar to how he defends himself. I would suggest you, along with Spades, to not posting anymore unless you can actually provide something useful to the discussion.
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On June 06 2012 07:49 Maekchu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:46 mrtomjones wrote:On June 06 2012 07:42 HansK wrote:On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.
I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.
Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.
The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.
This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.
The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best. It still amazes me people type MASSIVE amounts of text and barley understand the situation. To sum it up for you, all the replays he posted he is playing legit and no one was trying to say other wise. The train of thought is he maphacked for this in particular show match, and there is heavy heavy evidence to support that. To me the most compelling is the following: In his show match games[7 of them] he regularly: 1. Sends his scv to scout and goes in the base then out of the base with out ever looking at the scv[or scouting the second gas] or buildings. [Who would EVER send a scv in and out of a base and not look at any buildings...] 2. Never once, EVER no matter what looks into the fog of war and has frequent 5-10 second screen pauces. 3. Does very odd scans where the only way you can do them is the mini-map. This is all with out including the very very odd moves.. such as stimming and running back all his marines 1 inch away from siege with out ever seeing the tanks. There is dozens of very odd stuff like this in a small Bo7 when he very rarely does that kinda stuff in a 100 game sample. Compare this to his normal ladder games where: 1. He ALWAYS checks his SCV and scouts both gas.. 2. He ALWAYS looks into the fog of war like 10+ times a game.. 3. Scans 100% different [looking into fog of war] every single game... I find it rather odd you made that huge post[lots of effort] with out even realizing no one thought he hacked in the replays he posted him self. It amazes me that someone who is not semi pro is trying to judge someone who competes at MLG events and such. Cause all sports commentators needs to be top level players in order to understand the game? People can still give their opinion whether or not they are part of the top player base... -.-
Yah but he is trying to say Attero doesnt understand at all and Attero specifically posts that he went over the replays for two hours. Probably a lot more than most others did.
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On June 06 2012 07:51 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:49 Maekchu wrote:On June 06 2012 07:46 mrtomjones wrote:On June 06 2012 07:42 HansK wrote:On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.
I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.
Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.
The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.
This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.
The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best. It still amazes me people type MASSIVE amounts of text and barley understand the situation. To sum it up for you, all the replays he posted he is playing legit and no one was trying to say other wise. The train of thought is he maphacked for this in particular show match, and there is heavy heavy evidence to support that. To me the most compelling is the following: In his show match games[7 of them] he regularly: 1. Sends his scv to scout and goes in the base then out of the base with out ever looking at the scv[or scouting the second gas] or buildings. [Who would EVER send a scv in and out of a base and not look at any buildings...] 2. Never once, EVER no matter what looks into the fog of war and has frequent 5-10 second screen pauces. 3. Does very odd scans where the only way you can do them is the mini-map. This is all with out including the very very odd moves.. such as stimming and running back all his marines 1 inch away from siege with out ever seeing the tanks. There is dozens of very odd stuff like this in a small Bo7 when he very rarely does that kinda stuff in a 100 game sample. Compare this to his normal ladder games where: 1. He ALWAYS checks his SCV and scouts both gas.. 2. He ALWAYS looks into the fog of war like 10+ times a game.. 3. Scans 100% different [looking into fog of war] every single game... I find it rather odd you made that huge post[lots of effort] with out even realizing no one thought he hacked in the replays he posted him self. It amazes me that someone who is not semi pro is trying to judge someone who competes at MLG events and such. Cause all sports commentators needs to be top level players in order to understand the game? People can still give their opinion whether or not they are part of the top player base... -.- Yah but he is trying to say Attero doesnt understand at all and Attero specifically posts that he went over the replays for two hours. Probably a lot more than most others did.
Yeah, then attero thought that the catz committee thought he was hacking in the replays he provided. When clearly thats not the case at all.
Very easy to understand but attero apparently missed it 
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Ffs why doesnt he just admit it...If he wasn't maphacking surely he'd defend himself, and not just mumble neutral rubbish then quit his team before they conclude the same thing everyone in the community has.
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caught red handed and hurting hard. justice has been served ;]
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I think Spades did the right thing. Most of us don't know for sure if he was guilty or not. But whatever it was, this unwanted attention will hurt WW so he did the right thing and spared them.
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On June 06 2012 07:51 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:49 Maekchu wrote:On June 06 2012 07:46 mrtomjones wrote:On June 06 2012 07:42 HansK wrote:On June 06 2012 07:20 Attero wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people are going to hate me for this but this is wrong. All this evidence you guys are claiming that proves Spades is a hacker is utterly ridiculous. So you don't agree with his play, well he definitely knows the game way better than most of you and spent time in Korea making sure he could enhance his knowledge.
I watched all the Lucifron games for 2 hours, and just now spent more time on The Catz analysis as well. I can dismiss what Illusion says because he is simply a Terran player that believes everything Spades does is wrong and bad play, which simply added to his own suspicions. Spades also responded to Illusions' suspicions. This is more like an argument than a trial if anything. You say this and that's all fine, but what about this and that? It never solves anything.
Anyone looking at any of the replays that SPADES POSTED HIMSELF can see that he does things that no hacker would do. How many times has he suicided his armies and made terrible decisions. You think he did that just in case people were starting to catch on? He's always been a Grandmaster, and always will be when he's active. Which doesn't seem to be for long thanks to this.
The only crime he committed was taking games off a player the community deemed a player like Spades should never be capable of doing without hacking.
This case will never be solved because there are few people like me who took the time to review circumstances where he isn't hacking. Games from Spring Arena, IPL Qualifiers, HomeStory Cup Qualifiers should be perfect examples of a reason to hack, where he clearly did not. There are way too many instances of moves a player with map hack should not do. All you tend to see is his win rate and rank 1 GM and therefore because of his "fishy play" have ruined the career of a very underrated player. To say he hacked in bw is non sense compared to the amount of people that hacked in bw. Of course it doesn't help his defense but at this point nothing would. This is sc2 where everyone had a fresh start to show off their talents.
The death threats that he's receiving and the fact that he has to leave his team is still not enough apparently. I hope you understand that Spades was not treated fairly and given the benefit of the doubt. I hope Spades does his best at MLG and WCS or at least has games that shows that he's truly worthy of taking games off the best. It still amazes me people type MASSIVE amounts of text and barley understand the situation. To sum it up for you, all the replays he posted he is playing legit and no one was trying to say other wise. The train of thought is he maphacked for this in particular show match, and there is heavy heavy evidence to support that. To me the most compelling is the following: In his show match games[7 of them] he regularly: 1. Sends his scv to scout and goes in the base then out of the base with out ever looking at the scv[or scouting the second gas] or buildings. [Who would EVER send a scv in and out of a base and not look at any buildings...] 2. Never once, EVER no matter what looks into the fog of war and has frequent 5-10 second screen pauces. 3. Does very odd scans where the only way you can do them is the mini-map. This is all with out including the very very odd moves.. such as stimming and running back all his marines 1 inch away from siege with out ever seeing the tanks. There is dozens of very odd stuff like this in a small Bo7 when he very rarely does that kinda stuff in a 100 game sample. Compare this to his normal ladder games where: 1. He ALWAYS checks his SCV and scouts both gas.. 2. He ALWAYS looks into the fog of war like 10+ times a game.. 3. Scans 100% different [looking into fog of war] every single game... I find it rather odd you made that huge post[lots of effort] with out even realizing no one thought he hacked in the replays he posted him self. It amazes me that someone who is not semi pro is trying to judge someone who competes at MLG events and such. Cause all sports commentators needs to be top level players in order to understand the game? People can still give their opinion whether or not they are part of the top player base... -.- Yah but he is trying to say Attero doesnt understand at all and Attero specifically posts that he went over the replays for two hours. Probably a lot more than most others did.
The guy just gave some very decent arguments for Attero miss-judging the material. Doesn't matter if you spend 2 hours or 1000 hours. If you don't understand what you study, your conclusion will still be false.
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On June 06 2012 05:50 las91 wrote:
Good luck to Western Wolves in the future, and good luck to Spades with whatever he decides to do moving forward.
Thank you!
On June 06 2012 06:01 TheRealNanMan wrote:
Good Luck to both Spades and Western Wolves in the future!
Thanks.
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Hmmmm, interesting. I really don't think there was any compelling proof of hacking (not even a little), but this behavior is suspicious.... His in game actions say no, his out of game actions say "wtf??". Don't take this too seriously, Spades. If you are legitimately not hacking, keep gaming, okay?
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And the mob rule prevails, man I bet everyone's feeling so cool because 'OMG we caught a hacker guys!'.
Why even bother to give him the benefit of the doubt or question que fabulous and effective biased methods of Catz & co? Internet justice is the future and clearly the only way to go. What a fucking lovely community.
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On June 06 2012 07:59 Kergy wrote:
And the mob rule prevails, man I bet everyone's feeling so cool because 'OMG we caught a hacker guys!'.
Why even bother to give him the benefit of the doubt or question que fabulous and effective biased methods of Catz & co? Internet justice is the future and clearly the only way to go. What a fucking lovely community.
Wasn't biased. Stop saying it was. They looked at the replays before they began streaming and then they made their decision. Bias would be analyzing the replays and saying hes obviously hacking before they look at the evidence.
Wake up please.
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EPT
