On July 26 2012 16:20 Tachion wrote: Just throwing in my 2 cents. exclusivity is what made the content so desirable. Less than 1% has beaten this boss, fucking awesome let's go do it! 50% of the server has beaten this boss, oh well...who gives a shit? If everyone got a gold and diamond necklace would it still feel special to have? Blizzard tried to address what they saw as a problem and destroyed what made their game feel so special to play. Looking at the growth, the player base was quite happy with that 1%. Don't fix what isn't broken.
To add to that.
Currently in WoW the complaint is that there isn't anything to do because all the content's been cleared whereas back in the day if you weren't in the top of the top guild there was ALWAYS content to do because you hadn't yet finished what was already available.
But these days, a fresh 85 skips right past the first two raiding tiers in Cataclysm from valor point grinding and goes right into Dragon Soul.
it's this lack of progression for each character that I think needs changing, I'm fine with normal mode raids being easier than the raids of old, I'm cool with the hard mode model.
What I don't like is Blizzards tendency to make content obsolete by introducing easily farmable gear that makes them pointless to run outside of achievements and mounts, and then guts the difficulty of the raid itself on top of that.
Compare that to TBC, where people were still running Karazhan even when Sunwell was out because they needed the gear for their new alts, in order to get themselves up to the level of running Sunwell.
It prolonged the life of content, made the game feel like there was always something to do.
Now everyone's in the same instance "Dragon Soul" and there's no point to even running any of the older raids outside of achievements and mounts, it's no wonder everyone gets bored at the end of expansions now. There's literally ONE relevant instance, when in the past there were always several.
This problem is easily correctable in Mists. Stop nerfing the content after the next tier is out, leave the difficulty of it alone. This restraint combined with the change to the valor point system should prolong the life of Mist raid content by a significant margin and bring a real sense of progression by tier back to the game.
Pretty much sums up the problem to be fair. I mean i still play the game because of the social aspect i have with my mates i play it with but i still wish it was back to the times of Vanilla/BC
The problem like you addressed is the fact there is only ever one raid that is ever being done at one time due to the way the valor point vendors get changed with every dungeon that comes out. I remember clearing Kara up to the last week of BC on alts and thinking wow, that was fun, in the last week of the expansion!!! You always feel there was something to do PvP and PVE wise in TBC because of AV the new battleground at the time and the rewards you got from PvP could actually help in PVE the glad 2 handers for warrior were good etc.
Blizz are trying to address these issues though, i do stalk the blue poster forums and i see that there trying, but the way they think there going to fix that in Panda is by adding in Timed Dungeons runs so people can get higher end gear (like heoric raid gear, but not that high) in a timed run if you do it under x amount of time. Which i think is a good job, because no way you will be able to pug that sort of thing in the first 1-2months of Panda so it will bring back the guild focus to do things again which is what i like about the game, making server guilds bigger and more competitive.
One can hope as a WoW player that it will feel more like TBC than LK/Cata but you never know ;;
Also, on another note, wonder if GW2 is going to have a big impact of WoW Panda copies sold in September. Rumour had it that there might of been a August release for Panda, but with GW2 announcing that it will be released 28th that maybe WoW pushed it back on purpose so maybe people get bored of GW2 or don't like it then jump back to WoW. GW2 being F2P after buying the disc itself could help them though as well if people dislike Panda and then double switch back xD Be interesting to see who wins. I personally disliked GW2 in the beta i played so far, graphics are nice but thats about it for me personally.
Doubt I'll touch MoP after getting suckered into trying cata by false promises. I echo the thoughts of those speaking previously regarding the content, making whole tiers of content completely pointless so people could just jump up a tier is so retardedly dumb. It stops you caring about you do, I could easily put in 12 hours a day back in the day to make damn sure I was ready for raids and the raids themselves because I gave a damn about progressing and seeing the next boss. As that video pointed out, it created a JOURNEY for everyone to travel. And along that journey you would meet people at the same part of that journey, on the way to get on a griffon to go do MC attunement you see a dude in full wrath in Ironforge with an arcanite reaper on his back you go 'holy shit' and jizz everywhere. You know that guys guild is legit as fuck, and the players in that guild are too, you know that if you do a BG and you see a couple of those guys on your team you're gonna do well. You see them as the goal, 'one day I wanna be like that'. So you strive to improve every day, work your way up the ladder, and you can get there if you try, but noone wants to try these days.
On July 26 2012 18:22 Lyter wrote: Doubt I'll touch MoP after getting suckered into trying cata by false promises. I echo the thoughts of those speaking previously regarding the content, making whole tiers of content completely pointless so people could just jump up a tier is so retardedly dumb. It stops you caring about you do, I could easily put in 12 hours a day back in the day to make damn sure I was ready for raids and the raids themselves because I gave a damn about progressing and seeing the next boss. As that video pointed out, it created a JOURNEY for everyone to travel. And along that journey you would meet people at the same part of that journey, on the way to get on a griffon to go do MC attunement you see a dude in full wrath in Ironforge with an arcanite reaper on his back you go 'holy shit' and jizz everywhere. You know that guys guild is legit as fuck, and the players in that guild are too, you know that if you do a BG and you see a couple of those guys on your team you're gonna do well. You see them as the goal, 'one day I wanna be like that'. So you strive to improve every day, work your way up the ladder, and you can get there if you try, but noone wants to try these days.
Personally I kinda liked the raids in Cata, Nef/Chogall were easily some of my favorite bosses to fight(i did like fighting Ragnaros too though.) Dragonsoul was just kinda eh for me, I ran it with no nerfs or something in a guild pug once and just ran around doing nothing productive with my 359 dps gear(was best geared tank on our server at one point) and we still managed to down 4/8 before i got bored and the raid group disbanded.
hopefully this expansion will go back to bc roots and such where all the content will be relevant
On July 26 2012 17:47 Rixxe wrote: The biggest issue with WoW was the transition after TBC to WOTLK. As soon as they made huge changes (DK's, spec changes, etc etc) it created a train of balance patches.
It's almost like they thought 'Lets give [insert class here] something really cool and amazing but not test it against [other class here]'. After that EVERYONE thought they were able to moan about this or that, and blizzard started the mess that was weekly-monthly balance patches.
Going back to TBC, did anyone really mind that Druids couldn't take certain bosses? Or that Paladins where the best AOE tanks? Not really. Most people just accepted it. After TBC everyone felt that [my class] should have the best of everything, and anything it didn't have was overpowered. It's fucking retarded when you think of all the remakes (Paladin's anyone!) they had to do to attempt to fix the mess they made by adding in DK's and changing the class specs.
Alas regarding MOP, i don't think it will be any different, and therefore won't be playing.
Basically your point can be summed up in that they constantly say they're afraid of class homogenization, and yet they continually do it anyway.
I simply do not have time for MMOs, atleast not when its so freaking boring as DS raid which is so braindead it becomes real boring.
I really miss the times when I could level an alt, and go into kara (tbc duh) and feel like the bosses did indeed provide some sort of difficulty, yes, we even had wipes with pugs. People where there for easy badges, and people where there for gear that could lift them to the next dungeon.
Im not sure if Im gonna buy Mists, maybe I need to bored one weekend and just buy it to test it out a few hours, but the days I love wow are pretty much gone. Still love my dwarf lock, and I like the world, but I wanna pug something that can provide a challenge for pugs, cause lets be real, who wants to comit 2-4 nights a week, stretching 3-4 hours each session? I hate comitment like that. SC2 and similar games, you can do a quick 20min match and feel great.
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me.
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
The difference between now and then is MILES. Fucking worlds apart. This is coming from someone who raided at top 30 world, top 10 US level until half way through sunwell, and now raids in a top 15 US, top 100 world guild,. That video is a pretty accurate description of the problem with their 'everyone gets everything' approach.
These days nearly everyone (and their alt/s) is in the same gear as me, has the same mounts as me and I dare say that the majority of the server has no fucking idea who I am, who is actually in my guild, who raids, who is an alt and so on. There is no interaction with the world, no interaction with the player base, and a significantly reduced sense of achievement/wonder/community.
It's not true that everyone is in the same gear, most people can't even do normal raids, despite the fact that they are extremely easy, and heroic geared raiders have gear that is a full tier above normal raiders. Heroic raiders have far superior gear to the rest of the playerbase.
You can tell someone is a highly successful heroic raider firstly from the guild name, the guild name itself is a huge status symbol, being in the best guild on the server means you're one of the best on the server. Then there's the gear (or ilvl or gearscore), the achievements, the special mounts that non-raiders can't get, and the fact that they're doing 1.5 to 2 times more DPS than the next guy on the damage meters in a PUG.
It's simply not true that raids are easier now. Bosses like Yogg+0, Lich King, Sinestra, Al'akir, took longer to get a world first kill than many TBC bosses like Magtheridon, Gruul, Illidan and Kil'Jaeden.
The only exception is Kael and Vashj, which took so long compared to the TBC release date because TBC released with 2 tiers of raids (3 if you count Hyjal), but even Yogg+0 which was a single tier took longer to kill than Vashj, and nearly as long as Kael.
Looking at this evidence and the kill dates of the hardest raid bosses doesn't show that WoW is getting easier.
I think I'm just going to preserve all the good memories I have, instead of making myself hate the game even more than I already do by going back for MoP.
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
The difference between now and then is MILES. Fucking worlds apart. This is coming from someone who raided at top 30 world, top 10 US level until half way through sunwell, and now raids in a top 15 US, top 100 world guild,. That video is a pretty accurate description of the problem with their 'everyone gets everything' approach.
These days nearly everyone (and their alt/s) is in the same gear as me, has the same mounts as me and I dare say that the majority of the server has no fucking idea who I am, who is actually in my guild, who raids, who is an alt and so on. There is no interaction with the world, no interaction with the player base, and a significantly reduced sense of achievement/wonder/community.
It's not true that everyone is in the same gear, most people can't even do normal raids, despite the fact that they are extremely easy, and heroic geared raiders have gear that is a full tier above normal raiders. Heroic raiders have far superior gear to the rest of the playerbase.
You can tell someone is a highly successful heroic raider firstly from the guild name, the guild name itself is a huge status symbol, being in the best guild on the server means you're one of the best on the server. Then there's the gear (or ilvl or gearscore), the achievements, the special mounts that non-raiders can't get, and the fact that they're doing 1.5 to 2 times more DPS than the next guy on the damage meters in a PUG.
It's simply not true that raids are easier now. Bosses like Yogg+0, Lich King, Sinestra, Al'akir, took longer to get a world first kill than many TBC bosses like Magtheridon, Gruul, Illidan and Kil'Jaeden.
The only exception is Kael and Vashj, which took so long compared to the TBC release date because TBC released with 2 tiers of raids (3 if you count Hyjal), but even Yogg+0 which was a single tier took longer to kill than Vashj, and nearly as long as Kael.
Looking at this evidence and the kill dates of the hardest raid bosses doesn't show that WoW is getting easier.
All of those 'heroic' versions give it a lot less appeal though (imo). I used to love sunwell, but killing a boss in a different way to make it harder is so tedious, To me, it feels like I've already killed the boss and just don't care.
On July 26 2012 17:47 Rixxe wrote: The biggest issue with WoW was the transition after TBC to WOTLK. As soon as they made huge changes (DK's, spec changes, etc etc) it created a train of balance patches.
It's almost like they thought 'Lets give [insert class here] something really cool and amazing but not test it against [other class here]'. After that EVERYONE thought they were able to moan about this or that, and blizzard started the mess that was weekly-monthly balance patches.
Going back to TBC, did anyone really mind that Druids couldn't take certain bosses? Or that Paladins where the best AOE tanks? Not really. Most people just accepted it. After TBC everyone felt that [my class] should have the best of everything, and anything it didn't have was overpowered. It's fucking retarded when you think of all the remakes (Paladin's anyone!) they had to do to attempt to fix the mess they made by adding in DK's and changing the class specs.
Alas regarding MOP, i don't think it will be any different, and therefore won't be playing.
Basically your point can be summed up in that they constantly say they're afraid of class homogenization, and yet they continually do it anyway.
It's like people have a crush on logical fallacies or something they cling to them so much.
For all my WoW vets out there. I think we can all agree with this video. I hope Blizzard proves me wrong though
In case you haven't realized, WoW is as hard as ever. Both T11 and T12 were probably amongst the hardest tiers of raids ever made, although T13 is probably easier.
The video says that it took 4 months before Kael'thas was defeated. But TBC launched with 2 raid tiers, not 1.
In fact, if we compare this to Ulduar, released in WotLK (people who were never involved in progression raiding claim that this is when WoW started to be dumbed down for the masses), Yogg-0 wasn't cleared until 3 months after patch 3.1. That's 3 whole months on a single tier before the world first kill.
The claims that raiders are no longer special, that they aren't rewarded far above and beyond lesser players, and that progression raiding in WoW is now easy, are simply false. The people who do these heroic raids have the best gear, they get special mounts for the meta-achievements, and are highly regarded in the community.
Killing something on hard mode when you've already done it on normal mode and drooling retard mode is nothing at all like the same enjoyment or satisfaction as killing a boss when he is the only form of that boss.
The hardest hard mode of ICC and Cata are hard sure but they're not epic and fun to do because they're just something you've already done with the numbers turned up.
For all my WoW vets out there. I think we can all agree with this video. I hope Blizzard proves me wrong though
In case you haven't realized, WoW is as hard as ever. Both T11 and T12 were probably amongst the hardest tiers of raids ever made, although T13 is probably easier.
The video says that it took 4 months before Kael'thas was defeated. But TBC launched with 2 raid tiers, not 1.
In fact, if we compare this to Ulduar, released in WotLK (people who were never involved in progression raiding claim that this is when WoW started to be dumbed down for the masses), Yogg-0 wasn't cleared until 3 months after patch 3.1. That's 3 whole months on a single tier before the world first kill.
The claims that raiders are no longer special, that they aren't rewarded far above and beyond lesser players, and that progression raiding in WoW is now easy, are simply false. The people who do these heroic raids have the best gear, they get special mounts for the meta-achievements, and are highly regarded in the community.
Killing something on hard mode when you've already done it on normal mode and drooling retard mode is nothing at all like the same enjoyment or satisfaction as killing a boss when he is the only form of that boss.
The hardest hard mode of ICC and Cata are hard sure but they're not epic and fun to do because they're just something you've already done with the numbers turned up.
Now I know you've never done any heroic boss in your life.
A lot of heroic bosses require very different strategies.
The idea of hard modes is not new. In fact it's ubiquitous amongst pretty much all games. Unless there is an easy mode, players who can't get into a good guild, players who don't have a lot of time to play, and bads, won't be able to see the content. And with hard modes, highly skilled raiding guilds can still be challenged.
This is a win/win situation. The bads have easy content, and good players have hard content.
There's nothing wrong with casuals or bads or average-skilled guilds being able to see content, given that they already can't do the heroic modes, can't get the best gear, don't have the achievements or special mounts, and that it is generally very easy to measure and see epeen in WoW.
For all my WoW vets out there. I think we can all agree with this video. I hope Blizzard proves me wrong though
In case you haven't realized, WoW is as hard as ever. Both T11 and T12 were probably amongst the hardest tiers of raids ever made, although T13 is probably easier.
The video says that it took 4 months before Kael'thas was defeated. But TBC launched with 2 raid tiers, not 1.
In fact, if we compare this to Ulduar, released in WotLK (people who were never involved in progression raiding claim that this is when WoW started to be dumbed down for the masses), Yogg-0 wasn't cleared until 3 months after patch 3.1. That's 3 whole months on a single tier before the world first kill.
The claims that raiders are no longer special, that they aren't rewarded far above and beyond lesser players, and that progression raiding in WoW is now easy, are simply false. The people who do these heroic raids have the best gear, they get special mounts for the meta-achievements, and are highly regarded in the community.
Killing something on hard mode when you've already done it on normal mode and drooling retard mode is nothing at all like the same enjoyment or satisfaction as killing a boss when he is the only form of that boss.
The hardest hard mode of ICC and Cata are hard sure but they're not epic and fun to do because they're just something you've already done with the numbers turned up.
Now I know you've never done any heroic boss in your life.
A lot of heroic bosses require very different strategies.
But many of them also don't, or at least not sufficiently enough to make players think they are new encounters. Some bosses have changed up enough mechanics in Heroic mode to make them feel different, like Warmaster, Zon'ozz, Baleroc, etc. and that's a step in the right direction. However, as of late it's become increasingly common to have bosses that are just slightly different iterations of their normal-mode counterparts in which the strategy remains largely the same, such as Morchok, Hagara, Ultraxion, Majordomo Staghelm, Rhyolith, etc., which contributes to the aforementioned burnout. Of course, this problem isn't helped by the fact that guilds are forced to clear normal mode before Heroics are unlocked. If the devs are going to insist that Heroic mode is a substitute for new content, then they should at least make the majority of bosses feel substantially different.
The idea of hard modes is not new. In fact it's ubiquitous amongst pretty much all games. Unless there is an easy mode, players who can't get into a good guild, players who don't have a lot of time to play, and bads, won't be able to see the content. And with hard modes, highly skilled raiding guilds can still be challenged.
The problem is that the devs are trying to fit a vast spectrum of players into an extremely narrow corridor of raid tuning because of the number of relevant bosses in the current tier. They have to ensure that all raiders who identify themselves as being above the LFR-aimed skill level find a niche within 2 iterations of 8 different bosses. In previous versions of the game, specifically TBC, the spread of players was across a spectrum of ~50 bosses so tuning and progression could be much more gradual.
I recognize the problems with the TBC model as well, but I really think that with some adjustments it could become the most advantageous raid system to date, particularly if LFR is here to stay. Things like making progression through older tiers proceed more quickly when newer tiers are released, either by increasing loot drops (from 2 pieces to 3 in 10-man and from 4 to 5 in 25-man) or by targeted nerfs to specific encounters could succeed where TBC fell short.
On July 27 2012 01:02 matiK23 wrote: Why the fuck are there Kung fu pandas in a world of elves, undead, dragons, and orcs?
To be fair, they have existed in Azeroth for ages. Blizzard wanted to implement them earlier but since they had tons of subscribers from China and China was very against the pandas since it's "their" animal and its extinct or whatever. But now when WoW is dying, I doubt they give a fuck
For all my WoW vets out there. I think we can all agree with this video. I hope Blizzard proves me wrong though
In case you haven't realized, WoW is as hard as ever. Both T11 and T12 were probably amongst the hardest tiers of raids ever made, although T13 is probably easier.
The video says that it took 4 months before Kael'thas was defeated. But TBC launched with 2 raid tiers, not 1.
In fact, if we compare this to Ulduar, released in WotLK (people who were never involved in progression raiding claim that this is when WoW started to be dumbed down for the masses), Yogg-0 wasn't cleared until 3 months after patch 3.1. That's 3 whole months on a single tier before the world first kill.
The claims that raiders are no longer special, that they aren't rewarded far above and beyond lesser players, and that progression raiding in WoW is now easy, are simply false. The people who do these heroic raids have the best gear, they get special mounts for the meta-achievements, and are highly regarded in the community.
Killing something on hard mode when you've already done it on normal mode and drooling retard mode is nothing at all like the same enjoyment or satisfaction as killing a boss when he is the only form of that boss.
The hardest hard mode of ICC and Cata are hard sure but they're not epic and fun to do because they're just something you've already done with the numbers turned up.
Now I know you've never done any heroic boss in your life.
A lot of heroic bosses require very different strategies.
But many of them also don't, or at least not sufficiently enough to make players think they are new encounters. Some bosses have changed up enough mechanics in Heroic mode to make them feel different, like Warmaster, Zon'ozz, Baleroc, etc. and that's a step in the right direction. However, as of late it's become increasingly common to have bosses that are just slightly different iterations of their normal-mode counterparts in which the strategy remains largely the same, such as Morchok, Hagara, Ultraxion, Majordomo Staghelm, Rhyolith, etc., which contributes to the aforementioned burnout. Of course, this problem isn't helped by the fact that guilds are forced to clear normal mode before Heroics are unlocked. If the devs are going to insist that Heroic mode is a substitute for new content, then they should at least make the majority of bosses feel substantially different.
The idea of hard modes is not new. In fact it's ubiquitous amongst pretty much all games. Unless there is an easy mode, players who can't get into a good guild, players who don't have a lot of time to play, and bads, won't be able to see the content. And with hard modes, highly skilled raiding guilds can still be challenged.
The problem is that the devs are trying to fit a vast spectrum of players into an extremely narrow corridor of raid tuning because of the number of relevant bosses in the current tier. They have to ensure that all raiders who identify themselves as being above the LFR-aimed skill level find a niche within 2 iterations of 8 different bosses. In previous versions of the game, specifically TBC, the spread of players was across a spectrum of ~50 bosses so tuning and progression could be much more gradual.
I recognize the problems with the TBC model as well, but I really think that with some adjustments it could become the most advantageous raid system to date, particularly if LFR is here to stay. Things like making progression through older tiers proceed more quickly when newer tiers are released, either by increasing loot drops (from 2 pieces to 3 in 10-man and from 4 to 5 in 25-man) or by targeted nerfs to specific encounters could succeed where TBC fell short.
Staghelm is very different on heroic than normal. In heroic you have to setup a cooldown rotations for the tank to eat the flame scythe since you cannot afford the DPS loss that comes with DPS losing their stacks without hitting enrage (at least when this was relevant content). Since the tank can only eat 1 to 3 scythes with cooldowns blown, instead of around 8, he shapeshifts far more, which increases his stacks far more quickly, meaning the fight gets chaotic and unmanageable more quickly. You also needed to put the orbs in a single place, and set up a rotation of mages or paladins to go invulnerable and eat the damage from the orbs, again because you can't afford the DPS loss.
For Hagara, you actually need to do the ice and lightning phase properly. You cannot run around the room in a circle to do the lightning anymore because you will die from the damage in heroic. You need to assign players to form an X shape formation beforehand. In the ice phase you have to run around multiple times, stand in the right place when you get dispelled or else you will put an ice patch on the ground that slows everyone and wipes the raid. There are also no ice tombs in normal.
Heroic modes are not a substitute for new content. It's not as if Blizzard is making less raid content because heroics are a substitute. WotLK didn't have less raid content because of heroics. Cata had one less raid tier, but the time between Cata and MoP is less than the time between any 2 expansions. Heroics are just hard modes. The same bosses made harder by new and extra mechanics (usually). Heroics are the *real* raid content. You can't compare Vanilla and TBC raids to WotLK and Cata normal modes, because normal modes are too easy. You should think of normal modes as easy mode and heroics as Vanilla and TBC raids.
The notion they were spreading the spectrum of skill in TBC better than under the normal/heroic raid model doesn't make sense. In both cases, you get up to a point where you don't have enough gear/skill to progress, and then you bang your head on the wall until you eventually beat the boss or your guild falls apart.
Another major problem with the TBC model is guild poaching. You had to gear players up over multiple weeks, through old and new raids, and then there's a large chance that they will be poached by a better progressed guild, wasting all that effort. Under the current model, there is no incentive to poach based on gear.
Guilds also fell apart more often, not only because of poaching, but because the best geared or most skilled raiders in the guild (often including the main tank) wants to see content and not be held back by everyone else. Under this current system, there is no incentive to leave your guild just to see content, because everyone can see all the content. Guilds don't fall apart due to players leaving for better guilds as often as it use to.
On July 27 2012 01:02 matiK23 wrote: Why the fuck are there Kung fu pandas in a world of elves, undead, dragons, and orcs?
To be fair, they have existed in Azeroth for ages. Blizzard wanted to implement them earlier but since they had tons of subscribers from China and China was very against the pandas since it's "their" animal and its extinct or whatever. But now when WoW is dying, I doubt they give a fuck
The issue with China was just a player-made and player-perpetuated rumor.
I don't see Blizzard having any problems with MoP in China. What's changed?
For all my WoW vets out there. I think we can all agree with this video. I hope Blizzard proves me wrong though
In case you haven't realized, WoW is as hard as ever. Both T11 and T12 were probably amongst the hardest tiers of raids ever made, although T13 is probably easier.
The video says that it took 4 months before Kael'thas was defeated. But TBC launched with 2 raid tiers, not 1.
In fact, if we compare this to Ulduar, released in WotLK (people who were never involved in progression raiding claim that this is when WoW started to be dumbed down for the masses), Yogg-0 wasn't cleared until 3 months after patch 3.1. That's 3 whole months on a single tier before the world first kill.
The claims that raiders are no longer special, that they aren't rewarded far above and beyond lesser players, and that progression raiding in WoW is now easy, are simply false. The people who do these heroic raids have the best gear, they get special mounts for the meta-achievements, and are highly regarded in the community.
Killing something on hard mode when you've already done it on normal mode and drooling retard mode is nothing at all like the same enjoyment or satisfaction as killing a boss when he is the only form of that boss.
The hardest hard mode of ICC and Cata are hard sure but they're not epic and fun to do because they're just something you've already done with the numbers turned up.
Now I know you've never done any heroic boss in your life.
A lot of heroic bosses require very different strategies.
The idea of hard modes is not new. In fact it's ubiquitous amongst pretty much all games. Unless there is an easy mode, players who can't get into a good guild, players who don't have a lot of time to play, and bads, won't be able to see the content. And with hard modes, highly skilled raiding guilds can still be challenged.
This is a win/win situation. The bads have easy content, and good players have hard content.
There's nothing wrong with casuals or bads or average-skilled guilds being able to see content, given that they already can't do the heroic modes, can't get the best gear, don't have the achievements or special mounts, and that it is generally very easy to measure and see epeen in WoW.
I've done pretty much everything in this game worth doing and most of my WOTLK stuff was done at an extremely high level.
I haven't even once brought up the word casual or anything to do with casual players so feel free to shut up about that and never bring it up again.
It has nothing at all to do with 'epeen', which I can assume is something you bring up because you feel your imaginary online penis is insufficient, which doesn't say much for your self confidence.
It has 100% everything to do with a game being rewarding and deserving of my time.
If Sc2 and DOTA had no PvP mode I wouldn't play it. Why? No it's not because I want to demonstrate that my imaginary online penis is bigger than random Protoss player A or random Russian pub team B. It's because I play games to either be challenged mentally and/or (and the best games combine both) to be immersed in a fictional world. WoW used to be the most awesome mix of both those things where the lore and fantasy was amazing and so was the challenge. Normal modes/LFR instantly kill both because they reduce what was once a epic boss and powerful character to a pathetic pushover meaning that this guy you've waiting two years to kill who commands the entire world you've spent an expansion fighting against can be killed on your first/second/third pull.
Now, what you're about to say is "oh but he's not a pushover on heroic". Which is where I realise that A) You never played pre WOTLK and B) You have no clue at all what makes PvE in WoW so amazing and rewarding.
When you kill a boss in WoW you're not just beating a series of computer scripts by running your own series of computer scripts with 9-39 other people. You're beating a character you've been building up to fighting and defeating over a series of days, weeks, months and in some cases even years. The reward isn't just hey ho another random mob (on 10 player normal mode with achievements X, Y and Z) down it's that you finally beat Kil'Jaeden the Deceiver this epic character from the Blizzard Warcraft story for good after so long of trying.
When you kill Kil'Jaeden the Deceiver on your first pull first week, your 10th pull third week, your 300th pull a few weeks/months later having already killed him a few times on the team realm anyway then that sure as fuck is not the same feeling.
Perhaps if you played this amazing game from Ulduar and before you would have the feintest clue what everyone in this thread and everyone in the community is talking about when they say this game isn't a fraction as good as it used to be and no, hard modes sure as fuck do not compensate.
EPT
