On July 26 2012 06:03 IntoTheEmo wrote: I'd be wary of Blizzard rumors or announcements too. What happened to our underwater instance promised in Cataclysm?
It was scrapped, some files are still in game. Yor'shaj and that other guy in DS were supposed to be bosses there, thats why they don't make sense in DS.
Anyways, I haven't played since March when we killed Deathwing on heroic. I used to raid a lot, I've been in top 20 US guilds, but I'm not really sure Mists is going to be worth my time. If my girlfriend plays I'll pick it up to play with her, but honestly after playing the beta a bit and being at Blizzcon last year nothing really caught my eye. It wasn't like when BC came out and I was fucking pumped to fight Illidan, this just seems to have little to no direction and will be extremely boring/casual.
I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me.
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
i quit wow shortly after WOTLK came out and never had any interest to play again... but for some reason this thing has peaked my interest. Talk about jumping the shark. It's so stupid it's awesome! I must reward them for having the balls to take one of their April fools jokes and turning it into a full expansion for their top franchise.
I quit WoW when BC was released. Because of how much of a hipster I am.
And here is why WoW has gotten way better: The so-called 'social aspect' wasn't fun. Walking to dungeons was zero fun. I only did dungeons when I had a warlock to port me. Playing with people from your realm and being stuck with them was not fun. People here don't realize how incredibly incredibly bad people are at WoW. Yea, you only need like 60 apm to play perfectly, but most people can't manage to do that. In fact, the average WoW player doesn't (and didn't) know any efficient way of dealing damage or healing efficiently or anything. Being stuck with such a person easily made me stop playing for a day or two. Searching for groups for hours was not fun. Spamming the chat channels was not fun.
Grinding for hours to get reputation (I am looking at you, Silithus) was not fun. Grinding for hours to get money for your 'epic mount' was not fun.
The game didn't get more casual, it just got more of a game and less of a chore. If you want to do a dungeon now, you can do a dungeon. If you want to PvP you can do that. If you want to raid, you can raid.
Leveling in Classic WoW was insanely weird. It was really counterintuitive and you could only be efficient if you knew which quests you will get in the future. If you didn't know all quests already leveling was insanely annoying. You ran out of quests constantly and had to travel INSANE distances. Again, travel in WoW ain't fun. Not to mention that every 4th quest had to be checked at thottbot or something similar.
Oh, and the game also has gotten way more challenging, usually harder rotations to do damage, more viable heal spells to choose from, the bosses on average have way more and way more difficult and interesting mechanics. More movement etc.
It obviously still isn't rocket science or Starcraft, but you can mess up.
There were some minor design decisions that I would consider bad, but overall WoW has gotten way better. It has gotten less annoying (or what many here call 'social') and more actual playing a game.
And making fun of pandas is just silly. I stopped caring about the lore-ish feeling in the world when the Bloodelves allied with the Undead (Yea, I know the difference between Scourge and Forsaken, no, I don't think that's an excuse). And Draenei came with a spaceship.
So what I am saying is: If you actually like raiding or PvP or just doing dungeons, or playing a decent MMORPG co-op game, WoW is still the by far best. And you can still have friends and a guild and all that stuff ingame.
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
I love this guy's main point in this video.
Blizzard has caved into what the COMMUNITY ITSELF ASKED FOR. That's the crazy thing.
I'd absolutely love to have WoW's endgame go back to the way it was, but there's a hard truth to be had here, there's no going back. For any MMO. No MMO will ever go back to the unbelievable commitment required that WoW's endgame was in Classic and TBC.
The gaming community has changed, evolved. Gaming companies can't develop games with the older generation in mind anymore because frankly there just aren't enough of us to make the financial investment worthwhile.
I don't blame Blizzard for where WoW is right now. They simply answered the call that their community cried for. Blame the community, change the community and the game might follow, but don't sit back and just bitch at Blizzard about it because that's how we got where we are in the first place.
That said. MoP is still fun, but this video does highlight where WoW came from. But the sad truth is that there's no going back.
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
I love this guy's main point in this video.
Blizzard has caved into what the COMMUNITY ITSELF ASKED FOR. That's the crazy thing.
I'd absolutely love to have WoW's endgame go back to the way it was, but there's a hard truth to be had here, there's no going back. For any MMO. No MMO will ever go back to the unbelievable commitment required that WoW's endgame was in Classic and TBC.
The gaming community has changed, evolved. Gaming companies can't develop games with the older generation in mind anymore because frankly there just aren't enough of us to make the financial investment worthwhile.
I don't blame Blizzard for where WoW is right now. They simply answered the call that their community cried for. Blame the community, change the community and the game might follow, but don't sit back and just bitch at Blizzard about it because that's how we got where we are in the first place.
That said. MoP is still fun, but this video does highlight where WoW came from. But the sad truth is that there's no going back.
Honestly what really struck me the most about that video was that it took TWO WEEKS for the first 10 man boss to go down, and 10 days for the first 25 man boss to go down. That it took FIVE MONTHS for the initially released content to be cleared, and blizzard was releasing new content before it was even completed -- which motivated people even more to raid. And that the ENTIRETY of WoTLK content (as in, all of it) was cleared in 48 hours from release.
That just shows the stark difference of philosophy at Blizzard now =/
I disagree though, we can blame Blizzard. The loudest and most vocal community is the one who screams "I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR CONTENT JUST GIVE IT OT ME", he said it best in the video. First it was we didnt have the gear to raid, then we didnt have the time, and soon it will be "just give me the achievements too why should I have to not get the gear I'm paying $15/mo for while they do!" BC was regarded as the best expansion of all time, not even just in MMO's, but one of the best of all time in any game. I can understand WoTLK, sort of, as a test experiment of "Okay, let's give them what they asked for." And they did, and they should have changed back.
They DID change back too, temporarily, for Cataclysm. Shit was going to be hard again, I still remember the discussion of how awesome and hard it is again and how heroics can wipe raids. But the fucking WoTLK babbies who can't handle aggro and just wanted to AoE through everything whined, and Blizzard caved again, and made it fucking easy as pie. And now they're just skipping the pretense.
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
I love this guy's main point in this video.
Blizzard has caved into what the COMMUNITY ITSELF ASKED FOR. That's the crazy thing.
I'd absolutely love to have WoW's endgame go back to the way it was, but there's a hard truth to be had here, there's no going back. For any MMO. No MMO will ever go back to the unbelievable commitment required that WoW's endgame was in Classic and TBC.
The gaming community has changed, evolved. Gaming companies can't develop games with the older generation in mind anymore because frankly there just aren't enough of us to make the financial investment worthwhile.
I don't blame Blizzard for where WoW is right now. They simply answered the call that their community cried for. Blame the community, change the community and the game might follow, but don't sit back and just bitch at Blizzard about it because that's how we got where we are in the first place.
That said. MoP is still fun, but this video does highlight where WoW came from. But the sad truth is that there's no going back.
Honestly what really struck me the most about that video was that it took TWO WEEKS for the first 10 man boss to go down, and 10 days for the first 25 man boss to go down. That it took FIVE MONTHS for the initially released content to be cleared, and blizzard was releasing new content before it was even completed -- which motivated people even more to raid. And that the ENTIRETY of WoTLK content (as in, all of it) was cleared in 48 hours from release.
That just shows the stark difference of philosophy at Blizzard now =/
I disagree though, we can blame Blizzard. The loudest and most vocal community is the one who screams "I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR CONTENT JUST GIVE IT OT ME", he said it best in the video. First it was we didnt have the gear to raid, then we didnt have the time, and soon it will be "just give me the achievements too why should I have to not get the gear I'm paying $15/mo for while they do!" BC was regarded as the best expansion of all time, not even just in MMO's, but one of the best of all time in any game. I can understand WoTLK, sort of, as a test experiment of "Okay, let's give them what they asked for." And they did, and they should have changed back.
They DID change back too, temporarily, for Cataclysm. Shit was going to be hard again, I still remember the discussion of how awesome and hard it is again and how heroics can wipe raids. But the fucking WoTLK babbies who can't handle aggro and just wanted to AoE through everything whined, and Blizzard caved again, and made it fucking easy as pie. And now they're just skipping the pretense.
I was on the forums man. Every day, I fought tooth and nail to not have the early cataclysm content nerfed (so to speak), early Cataclysm was awesome! The heroics were the hardest and most fun of any I've played since TBC, but by the time Dragon Soul was released Blizzard had obviously made up its mind. The Hour of Twilight heroics were so stupidly easy it was actually insulting.
But the forums loved them. The casual juggernaut ate that shit up like it was cake, and then as soon as it was done, they ate up LFR Dragon Soul, and as soon as that was done..... they bitched that there was no more content.
It's sad. I feel the dude's pain in the video. I remember how WoW used to be, but the community did this to the game.
I quit wow 2 months after Cata came out and after playing for 3 years, it was boring and I didn't see a reason to play that game. The lack of any world pvp plus changes to my main pvp class (Mage) just made it boring for me, i had nothing to do between raids which were OK. I wasn't too hardcore about raiding, i was competent which was rare in cataclysm <.< apparently but it was ok, i was just bored without pvp.
Now with all the changes to pvp in MoP I'm very very intrigued about coming back, they seem to be making it easier for world pvp to happen and encouraging it which i just love. I really wouldn't care if raids were cheap and easy as long as i had fun pvping which looks like i might, they nerfed the health of the guards so city raids are possible now, they are doing the whole multi server zones, they are adding new bg's, you cant fly in pandaria if you're not 90 and people have to go to instances to do scenarios (really hope this sticks but i doubt it). So we'll see if the changes I've read about stick and make the game more fun for me
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
I love this guy's main point in this video.
Blizzard has caved into what the COMMUNITY ITSELF ASKED FOR. That's the crazy thing.
I'd absolutely love to have WoW's endgame go back to the way it was, but there's a hard truth to be had here, there's no going back. For any MMO. No MMO will ever go back to the unbelievable commitment required that WoW's endgame was in Classic and TBC.
The gaming community has changed, evolved. Gaming companies can't develop games with the older generation in mind anymore because frankly there just aren't enough of us to make the financial investment worthwhile.
I don't blame Blizzard for where WoW is right now. They simply answered the call that their community cried for. Blame the community, change the community and the game might follow, but don't sit back and just bitch at Blizzard about it because that's how we got where we are in the first place.
That said. MoP is still fun, but this video does highlight where WoW came from. But the sad truth is that there's no going back.
Honestly what really struck me the most about that video was that it took TWO WEEKS for the first 10 man boss to go down, and 10 days for the first 25 man boss to go down. That it took FIVE MONTHS for the initially released content to be cleared, and blizzard was releasing new content before it was even completed -- which motivated people even more to raid. And that the ENTIRETY of WoTLK content (as in, all of it) was cleared in 48 hours from release.
That just shows the stark difference of philosophy at Blizzard now =/
I disagree though, we can blame Blizzard. The loudest and most vocal community is the one who screams "I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR CONTENT JUST GIVE IT OT ME", he said it best in the video. First it was we didnt have the gear to raid, then we didnt have the time, and soon it will be "just give me the achievements too why should I have to not get the gear I'm paying $15/mo for while they do!" BC was regarded as the best expansion of all time, not even just in MMO's, but one of the best of all time in any game. I can understand WoTLK, sort of, as a test experiment of "Okay, let's give them what they asked for." And they did, and they should have changed back.
They DID change back too, temporarily, for Cataclysm. Shit was going to be hard again, I still remember the discussion of how awesome and hard it is again and how heroics can wipe raids. But the fucking WoTLK babbies who can't handle aggro and just wanted to AoE through everything whined, and Blizzard caved again, and made it fucking easy as pie. And now they're just skipping the pretense.
I was on the forums man. Every day, I fought tooth and nail to not have the early cataclysm content nerfed (so to speak), early Cataclysm was awesome! The heroics were the hardest and most fun of any I've played since TBC, but by the time Dragon Soul was released Blizzard had obviously made up its mind. The Hour of Twilight heroics were so stupidly easy it was actually insulting.
But the forums loved them. The casual juggernaut ate that shit up like it was cake, and then as soon as it was done, they ate up LFR Dragon Soul, and as soon as that was done..... they bitched that there was no more content.
It's sad. I feel the dude's pain in the video. I remember how WoW used to be, but the community did this to the game.
It's the scourge of every good game. BC was what made WoW explode in popularity, and people were just mad they didn't get content handed to them on a silver platter. Which I understand the frustration, just like the guy in the video, but fuck man. Even in BC, my guild only BARELY beat Kael'thas and never killed Lady Vag. I never got to experience BT or Sunwell, but I fucking have the fondest memories of that because we fought tooth and nail through Karazhan and Gruul and shit. I loved that expansion because we had something to fight for in raiding. Something to achieve, someone to aspire to be. It was a huge fucking deal for me, on a personal level even, when my guild (which was rather 'casual', dare I say) killed Magtheridon and Gruul and especially Kael'thas. Because it actually felt like we fucking accomplished something.
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
I love this guy's main point in this video.
Blizzard has caved into what the COMMUNITY ITSELF ASKED FOR. That's the crazy thing.
I'd absolutely love to have WoW's endgame go back to the way it was, but there's a hard truth to be had here, there's no going back. For any MMO. No MMO will ever go back to the unbelievable commitment required that WoW's endgame was in Classic and TBC.
The gaming community has changed, evolved. Gaming companies can't develop games with the older generation in mind anymore because frankly there just aren't enough of us to make the financial investment worthwhile.
I don't blame Blizzard for where WoW is right now. They simply answered the call that their community cried for. Blame the community, change the community and the game might follow, but don't sit back and just bitch at Blizzard about it because that's how we got where we are in the first place.
That said. MoP is still fun, but this video does highlight where WoW came from. But the sad truth is that there's no going back.
Honestly what really struck me the most about that video was that it took TWO WEEKS for the first 10 man boss to go down, and 10 days for the first 25 man boss to go down. That it took FIVE MONTHS for the initially released content to be cleared, and blizzard was releasing new content before it was even completed -- which motivated people even more to raid. And that the ENTIRETY of WoTLK content (as in, all of it) was cleared in 48 hours from release.
That just shows the stark difference of philosophy at Blizzard now =/
I disagree though, we can blame Blizzard. The loudest and most vocal community is the one who screams "I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR CONTENT JUST GIVE IT OT ME", he said it best in the video. First it was we didnt have the gear to raid, then we didnt have the time, and soon it will be "just give me the achievements too why should I have to not get the gear I'm paying $15/mo for while they do!" BC was regarded as the best expansion of all time, not even just in MMO's, but one of the best of all time in any game. I can understand WoTLK, sort of, as a test experiment of "Okay, let's give them what they asked for." And they did, and they should have changed back.
They DID change back too, temporarily, for Cataclysm. Shit was going to be hard again, I still remember the discussion of how awesome and hard it is again and how heroics can wipe raids. But the fucking WoTLK babbies who can't handle aggro and just wanted to AoE through everything whined, and Blizzard caved again, and made it fucking easy as pie. And now they're just skipping the pretense.
Actually it wasn't even 48 hours, it was only slightly into the 2nd day of release so was actually more like 36 hours to clear all of WotLK Naxx!
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
I love this guy's main point in this video.
Blizzard has caved into what the COMMUNITY ITSELF ASKED FOR. That's the crazy thing.
I'd absolutely love to have WoW's endgame go back to the way it was, but there's a hard truth to be had here, there's no going back. For any MMO. No MMO will ever go back to the unbelievable commitment required that WoW's endgame was in Classic and TBC.
The gaming community has changed, evolved. Gaming companies can't develop games with the older generation in mind anymore because frankly there just aren't enough of us to make the financial investment worthwhile.
I don't blame Blizzard for where WoW is right now. They simply answered the call that their community cried for. Blame the community, change the community and the game might follow, but don't sit back and just bitch at Blizzard about it because that's how we got where we are in the first place.
That said. MoP is still fun, but this video does highlight where WoW came from. But the sad truth is that there's no going back.
Honestly what really struck me the most about that video was that it took TWO WEEKS for the first 10 man boss to go down, and 10 days for the first 25 man boss to go down. That it took FIVE MONTHS for the initially released content to be cleared, and blizzard was releasing new content before it was even completed -- which motivated people even more to raid. And that the ENTIRETY of WoTLK content (as in, all of it) was cleared in 48 hours from release.
That just shows the stark difference of philosophy at Blizzard now =/
I disagree though, we can blame Blizzard. The loudest and most vocal community is the one who screams "I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR CONTENT JUST GIVE IT OT ME", he said it best in the video. First it was we didnt have the gear to raid, then we didnt have the time, and soon it will be "just give me the achievements too why should I have to not get the gear I'm paying $15/mo for while they do!" BC was regarded as the best expansion of all time, not even just in MMO's, but one of the best of all time in any game. I can understand WoTLK, sort of, as a test experiment of "Okay, let's give them what they asked for." And they did, and they should have changed back.
They DID change back too, temporarily, for Cataclysm. Shit was going to be hard again, I still remember the discussion of how awesome and hard it is again and how heroics can wipe raids. But the fucking WoTLK babbies who can't handle aggro and just wanted to AoE through everything whined, and Blizzard caved again, and made it fucking easy as pie. And now they're just skipping the pretense.
I was on the forums man. Every day, I fought tooth and nail to not have the early cataclysm content nerfed (so to speak), early Cataclysm was awesome! The heroics were the hardest and most fun of any I've played since TBC, but by the time Dragon Soul was released Blizzard had obviously made up its mind. The Hour of Twilight heroics were so stupidly easy it was actually insulting.
But the forums loved them. The casual juggernaut ate that shit up like it was cake, and then as soon as it was done, they ate up LFR Dragon Soul, and as soon as that was done..... they bitched that there was no more content.
It's sad. I feel the dude's pain in the video. I remember how WoW used to be, but the community did this to the game.
It's the scourge of every good game. BC was what made WoW explode in popularity, and people were just mad they didn't get content handed to them on a silver platter. Which I understand the frustration, just like the guy in the video, but fuck man. Even in BC, my guild only BARELY beat Kael'thas and never killed Lady Vag. I never got to experience BT or Sunwell, but I fucking have the fondest memories of that because we fought tooth and nail through Karazhan and Gruul and shit. I loved that expansion because we had something to fight for in raiding. Something to achieve, someone to aspire to be. It was a huge fucking deal for me, on a personal level even, when my guild (which was rather 'casual', dare I say) killed Magtheridon and Gruul and especially Kael'thas. Because it actually felt like we fucking accomplished something.
When we cleared Naxx in WoTLK it was like....k
Seriously, in BC we spent months on Muru, and after killing him getting to finally walk into KJ's room was just the best feeling of accomplishment ever... Nothing in WoW since then has been nearly as fun and memorable.
On July 26 2012 08:20 TanKLoveR wrote: I quit wow 2 months after Cata came out and after playing for 3 years, it was boring and I didn't see a reason to play that game. The lack of any world pvp plus changes to my main pvp class (Mage) just made it boring for me, i had nothing to do between raids which were OK. I wasn't too hardcore about raiding, i was competent which was rare in cataclysm <.< apparently but it was ok, i was just bored without pvp.
Now with all the changes to pvp in MoP I'm very very intrigued about coming back, they seem to be making it easier for world pvp to happen and encouraging it which i just love. I really wouldn't care if raids were cheap and easy as long as i had fun pvping which looks like i might, they nerfed the health of the guards so city raids are possible now, they are doing the whole multi server zones, they are adding new bg's, you cant fly in pandaria if you're not 90 and people have to go to instances to do scenarios (really hope this sticks but i doubt it). So we'll see if the changes I've read about stick and make the game more fun for me
World PvP in Mists will definitely be a huge improvement over Cataclysm and Lich King.
The enormous emphasis on dailies as well as the spreading out of a lot of the important vendors (like Honor Gear Vendors) and the removal of How Group will Travel will all help to improve the World PvP in mists.
I am looking forward to that, I've internally accepted that I'll never enjoy raiding to the degree that I used to but at least I have PvP to look forward to.
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
I love this guy's main point in this video.
Blizzard has caved into what the COMMUNITY ITSELF ASKED FOR. That's the crazy thing.
I'd absolutely love to have WoW's endgame go back to the way it was, but there's a hard truth to be had here, there's no going back. For any MMO. No MMO will ever go back to the unbelievable commitment required that WoW's endgame was in Classic and TBC.
The gaming community has changed, evolved. Gaming companies can't develop games with the older generation in mind anymore because frankly there just aren't enough of us to make the financial investment worthwhile.
I don't blame Blizzard for where WoW is right now. They simply answered the call that their community cried for. Blame the community, change the community and the game might follow, but don't sit back and just bitch at Blizzard about it because that's how we got where we are in the first place.
That said. MoP is still fun, but this video does highlight where WoW came from. But the sad truth is that there's no going back.
Honestly what really struck me the most about that video was that it took TWO WEEKS for the first 10 man boss to go down, and 10 days for the first 25 man boss to go down. That it took FIVE MONTHS for the initially released content to be cleared, and blizzard was releasing new content before it was even completed -- which motivated people even more to raid. And that the ENTIRETY of WoTLK content (as in, all of it) was cleared in 48 hours from release.
That just shows the stark difference of philosophy at Blizzard now =/
I disagree though, we can blame Blizzard. The loudest and most vocal community is the one who screams "I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR CONTENT JUST GIVE IT OT ME", he said it best in the video. First it was we didnt have the gear to raid, then we didnt have the time, and soon it will be "just give me the achievements too why should I have to not get the gear I'm paying $15/mo for while they do!" BC was regarded as the best expansion of all time, not even just in MMO's, but one of the best of all time in any game. I can understand WoTLK, sort of, as a test experiment of "Okay, let's give them what they asked for." And they did, and they should have changed back.
They DID change back too, temporarily, for Cataclysm. Shit was going to be hard again, I still remember the discussion of how awesome and hard it is again and how heroics can wipe raids. But the fucking WoTLK babbies who can't handle aggro and just wanted to AoE through everything whined, and Blizzard caved again, and made it fucking easy as pie. And now they're just skipping the pretense.
Actually it wasn't even 48 hours, it was only slightly into the 2nd day of release so was actually more like 36 hours to clear all of WotLK Naxx!
Malygos took a little bit longer than Naxx to clear if I recall correctly.
To Wrath's Credit it took quite a while before 3 Drake Obsidium Sanctum was cleared. In general Hard Modes in Wrath of the Lich King were actually done very well up to Ulduar anyway. Ulduar was like the bright beacon of hope for me but everything following it hasn't measured up.
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
I love this guy's main point in this video.
Blizzard has caved into what the COMMUNITY ITSELF ASKED FOR. That's the crazy thing.
I'd absolutely love to have WoW's endgame go back to the way it was, but there's a hard truth to be had here, there's no going back. For any MMO. No MMO will ever go back to the unbelievable commitment required that WoW's endgame was in Classic and TBC.
The gaming community has changed, evolved. Gaming companies can't develop games with the older generation in mind anymore because frankly there just aren't enough of us to make the financial investment worthwhile.
I don't blame Blizzard for where WoW is right now. They simply answered the call that their community cried for. Blame the community, change the community and the game might follow, but don't sit back and just bitch at Blizzard about it because that's how we got where we are in the first place.
That said. MoP is still fun, but this video does highlight where WoW came from. But the sad truth is that there's no going back.
Honestly what really struck me the most about that video was that it took TWO WEEKS for the first 10 man boss to go down, and 10 days for the first 25 man boss to go down. That it took FIVE MONTHS for the initially released content to be cleared, and blizzard was releasing new content before it was even completed -- which motivated people even more to raid. And that the ENTIRETY of WoTLK content (as in, all of it) was cleared in 48 hours from release.
That just shows the stark difference of philosophy at Blizzard now =/
I disagree though, we can blame Blizzard. The loudest and most vocal community is the one who screams "I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR CONTENT JUST GIVE IT OT ME", he said it best in the video. First it was we didnt have the gear to raid, then we didnt have the time, and soon it will be "just give me the achievements too why should I have to not get the gear I'm paying $15/mo for while they do!" BC was regarded as the best expansion of all time, not even just in MMO's, but one of the best of all time in any game. I can understand WoTLK, sort of, as a test experiment of "Okay, let's give them what they asked for." And they did, and they should have changed back.
They DID change back too, temporarily, for Cataclysm. Shit was going to be hard again, I still remember the discussion of how awesome and hard it is again and how heroics can wipe raids. But the fucking WoTLK babbies who can't handle aggro and just wanted to AoE through everything whined, and Blizzard caved again, and made it fucking easy as pie. And now they're just skipping the pretense.
Actually it wasn't even 48 hours, it was only slightly into the 2nd day of release so was actually more like 36 hours to clear all of WotLK Naxx!
Malygos took a little bit longer than Naxx to clear if I recall correctly.
To Wrath's Credit it took quite a while before 3 Drake Obsidium Sanctum was cleared. In general Hard Modes in Wrath of the Lich King were actually done very well up to Ulduar anyway. Ulduar was like the bright beacon of hope for me but everything following it hasn't measured up.
That and Obviously Naxxramas was barely changed from Vanilla where a lot of the top guilds had cleared it and knew tactics already. Malygos, OS hardmode and ulduar were all fantastic and weren't just rolled by top guilds. Especially Yogg+0.
@ the statement that BC release took 5 months to clear. Kael'thas was unkillable until the Black temple patch hit. Otherwise the rest of it was cleared rather quickly. The only other difficult fight at all was Vashj.
On July 26 2012 08:20 TanKLoveR wrote: I quit wow 2 months after Cata came out and after playing for 3 years, it was boring and I didn't see a reason to play that game. The lack of any world pvp plus changes to my main pvp class (Mage) just made it boring for me, i had nothing to do between raids which were OK. I wasn't too hardcore about raiding, i was competent which was rare in cataclysm <.< apparently but it was ok, i was just bored without pvp.
Now with all the changes to pvp in MoP I'm very very intrigued about coming back, they seem to be making it easier for world pvp to happen and encouraging it which i just love. I really wouldn't care if raids were cheap and easy as long as i had fun pvping which looks like i might, they nerfed the health of the guards so city raids are possible now, they are doing the whole multi server zones, they are adding new bg's, you cant fly in pandaria if you're not 90 and people have to go to instances to do scenarios (really hope this sticks but i doubt it). So we'll see if the changes I've read about stick and make the game more fun for me
World PvP in Mists will definitely be a huge improvement over Cataclysm and Lich King.
The enormous emphasis on dailies as well as the spreading out of a lot of the important vendors (like Honor Gear Vendors) and the removal of How Group will Travel will all help to improve the World PvP in mists.
I am looking forward to that, I've internally accepted that I'll never enjoy raiding to the degree that I used to but at least I have PvP to look forward to.
I know, I mean raiding in WoW is a casual activity and it has been for a long time there is no way to make it hardcore. If they included achievements for doing raids without that general nerf they always put in them I would love to do heroic that way. But otherwise is not that appearling.
But pvp it's as fun as you want it to be and as "hardcore" as you make it, I was kind of ok during wintergrasp because people did quests there and went there to get herbs/ore and to do VoA so I got chance to mess around with people, also SW raids were fun but after cata with buffed guards and the new pvp area was just boring.
So I really hope the changes to WPvP stick and wont go away after a couple of months because people are whining too much about getting ganked and what not <.<, don't want a repeat of Cata's heroics so blizz takes it away soon after because the "majority" doesn't like it.
On July 26 2012 08:33 Criptos wrote: @ the statement that BC release took 5 months to clear. Kael'thas was unkillable until the Black temple patch hit. Otherwise the rest of it was cleared rather quickly. The only other difficult fight at all was Vashj.
I'd hardly call well over a month for shit like Mag "rather quickly" and well into March for other bosses "quickly"
On July 26 2012 07:00 Copymizer wrote: I haven't played since 2-3months after cataclysm where i found out what direction blizzard has been taking with wow. It's casual now it feels like a single player the leveling is no longer any challenge everything is being guided and given to you. People are standing in city 24/7 on LFR and LFD pressing a button to be TP'd to dungeoun play with 4 strangers that'll probably rage quit after 1st wipe and knowing you wont see them again they will ditch you.
The game has become a shadow of it's former glory TBC as i remember it. When there was an actually community on the server when people were out doing something, you had to be social and gather a group for that hard elite quests, so many aspects world pvp too. There was a time when gearing up for normal to heroic, kara, SSC, TK, MH and BT and getting your gear to get up there was challenging. All these guild perks too have made it way too easy. This vid sums it up well for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
TBC raiding was all about going to the moon, not because of the loot, not because it was easy, not because of e-dicks. It was all about it being a challenge, not just as boss fights, but as organisation, team, community, friendship and love and supporting each other and learning together and doing and re-doing and perfecting.. Look at WoW now, where is the love? Where is the friendship and server pride and guild pride and community? Where are these things that made TBC an adventure to be shared?
I love this guy's main point in this video.
Blizzard has caved into what the COMMUNITY ITSELF ASKED FOR. That's the crazy thing.
I'd absolutely love to have WoW's endgame go back to the way it was, but there's a hard truth to be had here, there's no going back. For any MMO. No MMO will ever go back to the unbelievable commitment required that WoW's endgame was in Classic and TBC.
The gaming community has changed, evolved. Gaming companies can't develop games with the older generation in mind anymore because frankly there just aren't enough of us to make the financial investment worthwhile.
I don't blame Blizzard for where WoW is right now. They simply answered the call that their community cried for. Blame the community, change the community and the game might follow, but don't sit back and just bitch at Blizzard about it because that's how we got where we are in the first place.
That said. MoP is still fun, but this video does highlight where WoW came from. But the sad truth is that there's no going back.
Honestly what really struck me the most about that video was that it took TWO WEEKS for the first 10 man boss to go down, and 10 days for the first 25 man boss to go down. That it took FIVE MONTHS for the initially released content to be cleared, and blizzard was releasing new content before it was even completed -- which motivated people even more to raid. And that the ENTIRETY of WoTLK content (as in, all of it) was cleared in 48 hours from release.
That just shows the stark difference of philosophy at Blizzard now =/
I disagree though, we can blame Blizzard. The loudest and most vocal community is the one who screams "I DONT WANT TO WORK FOR CONTENT JUST GIVE IT OT ME", he said it best in the video. First it was we didnt have the gear to raid, then we didnt have the time, and soon it will be "just give me the achievements too why should I have to not get the gear I'm paying $15/mo for while they do!" BC was regarded as the best expansion of all time, not even just in MMO's, but one of the best of all time in any game. I can understand WoTLK, sort of, as a test experiment of "Okay, let's give them what they asked for." And they did, and they should have changed back.
They DID change back too, temporarily, for Cataclysm. Shit was going to be hard again, I still remember the discussion of how awesome and hard it is again and how heroics can wipe raids. But the fucking WoTLK babbies who can't handle aggro and just wanted to AoE through everything whined, and Blizzard caved again, and made it fucking easy as pie. And now they're just skipping the pretense.
Actually it wasn't even 48 hours, it was only slightly into the 2nd day of release so was actually more like 36 hours to clear all of WotLK Naxx!
Malygos took a little bit longer than Naxx to clear if I recall correctly.
To Wrath's Credit it took quite a while before 3 Drake Obsidium Sanctum was cleared. In general Hard Modes in Wrath of the Lich King were actually done very well up to Ulduar anyway. Ulduar was like the bright beacon of hope for me but everything following it hasn't measured up.
That and Obviously Naxxramas was barely changed from Vanilla where a lot of the top guilds had cleared it and knew tactics already. Malygos, OS hardmode and ulduar were all fantastic and weren't just rolled by top guilds. Especially Yogg+0.
It was a dumbed down, easy-mode raid that you cleared in the Tier 6 gear you had gained in the previous expansion and levelled in. I don't think I ever really forgave Blizzard for what they did to my favourite instance (Naxx 40); and it was certainly a sign of things to come.
Naxx in Wotlk was the worst tuned raid I've ever played. First raid, not hardcore server first type people, resulted in one shot kills on the first 8 bosses. WTF. I enjoyed Cata until Blizz gave in to the whining about difficulty and turned Cata into ezmode Wotlk 2.0 If WoW could return to raiding like BC I'd rejoin in an instant. But that is not the direction Blizzard is going, and their subscriber numbers will continue to plummet.
EPT
and people have to go to instances to do scenarios (really hope this sticks but i doubt it). So we'll see if the changes I've read about stick and make the game more fun for me 
