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Demus
Netherlands305 Posts
Against these types of compositions, 1 A ing isn't going to work, just like it never works for zerg unless maybe with mass baneling (and even then, attacking at the right time in the right place is important). still, ravens can help here: PDD helps with hydras, autoturrets can help choke the ultra's for a short time, giving you some free early shots and HSM just wrecks hydra balls. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
Don't think "what kind of army can I make to beat his army?" Think about "when's the best time for me to attack so that he can't make a good army?" | ||
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Kryptix
United States138 Posts
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EriktheGuy
Canada132 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
unless you have a very high number of siege tanks, you'll get owned. but in that case, zerg player should have opted for broodlords. | ||
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Utena
United States32 Posts
On October 07 2010 00:52 hoovehand wrote: the hard thing about dealing with ultras is that about 6+ pop out at the same time, which doesn't give you any time to prepare unless you scouted the ultra den. -snip- I have to say I found this pretty amusing. If the Zerg player is really sitting on 1200+ gas, plus the 36 extra supply needed to fit in 6 ultras. (Not counting the extra for the armor upgrade, which is almost required for them to be good)... Then something is wrong in this game. Either the Zerg is sitting on more bases than he can defend, or he's not macroing well and can be killed at any moment, or he's getting them 2 at a time and you aren't scouting or something. | ||
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Ekko
United States72 Posts
First does the zerg own the majority of the map? If so give up if they get ultras, you have lost. Are you upgrades equal? If yes good, if no make them equal asap. Do you have almost the same amount of expansions they do? If no get them quick, If yes good but... ...Do you have an ability to churn out units almost as fast as the zerg? This is the key to the silly 200/200 battles other races get into with zerg. Zerg will lose head on 200/200 unit per unit BUT they will be replacing units faster than you can. This is how zerg wins the 200/200 battles and why they get soooo freaking many expansions. Its really the way you close the game as zerg. You can not win a 200/200 reliably versus a zerg when they have 6 expos and you have 1.5. They will throw that 200 supply army at you expecting to lose it all but reduce you by 2/3's while they instantly build a new and improved 200 supply army to counter your predominant unit and you produce 30 supply worth of units in the same time period. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On October 06 2010 12:53 mOnion wrote: horrible way to think. in BW a Terran 200/200 mech army with full upgrades was unstoppable and everyone knew it. but the game was balanced. why? because you dont fucking attack something that big head on. you're not going to counter it directly. ultra's are incredibly expensive and precious and slow to build. you need to be constantly whittling down the ultra numbers as best you can. other things you can do are things like dropping the main and killing the ultra cavern. scanning and catching ultras out of position. then there's the old attack his army and trade armies and reinforce faster. many ways, none are "make A if he has B and he loses" What? trading armies and reinforce with terran faster than a zerg opponent? Are you serious? Whittling out ultra numbers? How do you do that effeciently? Killing ultra cavern is nice but zerg needs probably just 1 second to build all those ultras. It seams you are talking about a tvt or tvp, not about tvz. To the topic. Hydras are very weak with no support. Try going for a timing push to kill him before hive tech kicks in, or die trying. | ||
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TheDrill
Russian Federation145 Posts
Mass fucking raven. Yes. Mass. Fucking. Raven. List of units that counter ravens: HT List of units that raven doesn't counter: HT Bratok had games with much better raven use than that, but I can't find them. You'll just have to take my word for it, but ravens are fucking awesome and they even counter voidrays, phoenixes, carriers, bc, motherships, corruptors, mutalisks and vikings. Shit turrets in enemy main, shit turrets at all enemy expos, shit marauders in enemy main, hsm enemy army to oblivion. Turret+HSM mutalisks and corruptors if they try to fight your ravens. HSM rapes hydra. | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
Thors can focus down ultras and ultras can't cleave well against them anymore. Micro hellions around to splash hydras to death. You gotta micro though, and you have to have as many thors as he has ultras. | ||
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Rebornlife
Canada224 Posts
IF you get to 200/200 and ultras/hyrdas are what he has i have a crazy counter that might work! Block off all chokes to your bases with multiple planetary fortress's with a few marauders behind to hit ultras faster and scvs to repair. Make a shit ton of vikings and just constantly harass around landing in multiple bases at once or multiple huge landings. | ||
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Gimpb
293 Posts
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Kakisho
United States240 Posts
I'd say, marauder tank thor, a bunker or two, and a plannetary fortress + the choke. You can even put your production buildings in the choke to just make it unstoppable wall. Get your SCV's hotkeyed or something so a huge chunk can go repair the buildings (the SCV's won't be hit by cleave, anymore). Now you're going to think that in that case, the Zerg'll just take the entire map and break through with broodlords, banelings, nydus, doom drops, or sheer numbers. Since ultralisks are pretty high tier and expensive as well, they won't be too far ahead. Then you just mass ravens. Point defense drones make zerg AA mostly useless, hydras can't hit your ravens, and are very suceptible to the missles. Corruptors are their best bet, as mutas get annihilated by the missiles. Just fly around, putting auto turrets everywhere, preferablly in tight areas, like behind mineral lines and also on cliffs. Eventually, the Zerg player will be forced to come to you, which'll make him lose the game. The reason why ravens, instead of banshees, is because raven's have energy that restores itself overtime, making them more and more cost effective. Try it! I know I want to, if only I had the chance. | ||
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zeidrichthorene
Canada83 Posts
For instance, if you're on the defensive, set up your marines in a spread pattern so that they don't all get splashed, but an ultralisk can't fit through the holes. Put them on Hold Position and add in some medivacs. Ultralisks deal 17.5 damage per second or so to a marine. Medivacs heal 13.5 damage per second to the marine. It takes the ultralisk like 13 seconds to kill a marine with combat shields who is being healed by a medivac. Behind the marine blockade you have whatever ranged units you want to use to kill the ultras. Attacking it's a bit more difficult to deal with because you can't set it up like that, but in general, having some marines with a good number of medivacs will seriously hamper ultralisk movement. Having a lot of marines in a blob obviously gets trashed quickly, and if more than one ultralisk can hit at a time the medivac healing becomes a lot less exciting, but if you can force their pathing to work against them (not too hard to be honest), the ultralisks quite often get caught up trying to kill a single near-immortal marine for way too long. Advancing, or caught off guard you can help this situation out a lot by just taking your marine blob, putting them on hold position, (especially if they've managed to form a bit of a concave already) and then pulling half of your marine force away. Whatever you do, I've found the best meat shield against ultralisks is just marines healed by medivacs. | ||
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
mixing some infestors in with ultras is a whole different story tho... | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
Siege tanks anihilate hydras, and are pretty good against ultras too | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Soulish
Canada1403 Posts
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
You will in a long game have to rely on both bio and mech because against zerg neither is selfsustained. Pure mech will die to mass muta and pure bio will die to banelings and die even harder to baneling/infestor/ultralisk. Always get both vehicle and infantry weapon upgrades imo from the start and don't fall behind zerg. Armor upgrades I think are optional based on style and strategy but you should always aim for +3 bio weapons and vehicle weapons. Then tank/thor/bio will do fine against ultras, just don't fight them in an awkward spot and most importantly FOCUS FIRE. I cannot stress enough how important it is to focus fire ultralisks in a battle. They do soo much damage and they have soo much hp that if your units are shooting all of the ultras at the same time you won't stand a chance. You will just end up with a post battle scene of 10 ultras all at red health, and zero terran units. Ideally you should let your tanks shoot whatever the hell they like and then have your thors and marauders focus fire ultras, while keeping separate control groups or just selecting in battle to not have ALL of those units focus fire the same ultralisks. You should always have Ravens along with your push in TvZ both because you need to clear creep tumors and scout burrowed units but also because they can PDD mutas or hydras. Two or more PDD's over the battlefield will ensure that the hydras remain nothing but a nuisance until the ultras are gone, and then those hydras are going to turn into pudding real fast. Additional stuff to give you an edge is to not PDD until zerg has fully committed to the fight. Don't drop the drones until the ultras are in melee range otherwise zerg can just pull back and they will be wasted. Also don't drop all PDD's instantly, but drop them in sequences of two then the next two once the first are running low on energy. This also prevents zerg from making you waste them and then retreating. If you have marines with your bio force try to sweep around your other units and make the marines form a wall for the ultras to chew through. Once marines are dead or if you have no marines use the marauders for the same purpose. | ||
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