EPTOn August 20 2011 11:18 Varpulis wrote:
by calling dropbear scum 20 times in a row?
by calling dropbear scum 20 times in a row?
it got people talking, who cares how he did it?
TL Mafia XLIV - Page 19
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
it got people talking, who cares how he did it? | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
WAIT FOUND SOMETHING On August 20 2011 08:03 Mig wrote: Sevryn is by far the scummiest. His vote on DB had a ridiculously scummy reason behind it. After he got called out on it he back peddles and claims it was just a pressure vote. And he says he didn't see anything scummy about DB and his only reason for pressure voting was again because of something palmar did it swedish mafia. And then he says he took the vote off not really because he thought db was innocent but he didn't want to get lynched for bandwagoning lol. Sevryn is just lol scum. No way I'm going to let you get away with that unnoticed. ##Vote Mig | ||
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
On August 20 2011 11:25 Foolishness wrote: Man none of these lynch targets look particularly good. Xtfftc has a few ?? posts but I just don't see the mafia in there. If Palmar is mafia he's on drugs. Kurumi cannot be justified yet, and I need to hear more from Sevryn until I'm convinced he isn't green. RayzorFlash's ninja vote is suspicious but not damning. WAIT FOUND SOMETHING No way I'm going to let you get away with that unnoticed. ##Vote Mig I'm confused, what did he say? | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
And the other games I've played with Mig he's been town, and I definitely don't ever remember him ever making a post with this kind of attitude. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On August 20 2011 11:24 JeeJee wrote: it got people talking, who cares how he did it? Yo, dude, answer my post? Explain why what I said was wrong? Or are you just avoiding answering it? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On August 20 2011 11:37 Foolishness wrote: He voted without bringing anything new to the table. That's his only post he's made this game that's been longer than 2 lines. His post says "lol he's scum vote", that wall of text you see there is gibberish. And the other games I've played with Mig he's been town, and I definitely don't ever remember him ever making a post with this kind of attitude. Foolish can you tell us precisely why you don't suspect Sevryn? You said that you need to hear more from him, when his first post itself was easily more scummy than Mig's, let alone those that followed. So why does one post of Mig's stick out to you, but one post of Sevryn's isn't enough? | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On August 20 2011 09:57 Foolishness wrote: I say we don't kill Palmar today. His goofy attitude can easily be explained that he's town. He just claimed mafia in Personality (let's say he's not lying), which means he just played two games as mafia recently: Personality and PTP2. Both games he attempted to be normal and blend in; there wasn't any of this odd posting. I don't think he would radically change his style like this if he was mafia again. Going to start the count because I know it's coming: # people who accuse me of defending my scumbuddy: 0 Well if you go back a little further to SNMMV, (where he was mafia), you'll see him playing like he is in this game. I'm not saying that he's mafia this game, but basing scum reads solely off of previous games is NOT a reliable way to go. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 20 2011 11:46 wherebugsgo wrote: Foolish can you tell us precisely why you don't suspect Sevryn? You said that you need to hear more from him, when his first post itself was easily more scummy than Mig's, let alone those that followed. So why does one post of Mig's stick out to you, but one post of Sevryn's isn't enough? Sevryn at least came back to explain himself. Yes his first vote post was a little strange but he said it was just to pressure. Also he confirmed Palmar's attitude is the same as Swedish mafia when he (Palmar) was town. I can confirm Palmar is not acting like he is when he is mafia. That's two people using past behavior to confirm Palmar as innocent. Sevryn also pointed out a ninja vote, that's a plus in my book but I can understand if you think it doesn't say one way or another. You can easily wait a day with him. If he goes mia and refuses to post unless asked then kill him tomorrow. If he willingly posts on his own and is somewhat active then let him be. On August 20 2011 11:57 Pyo wrote: Well if you go back a little further to SNMMV, (where he was mafia), you'll see him playing like he is in this game. I'm not saying that he's mafia this game, but basing scum reads solely off of previous games is NOT a reliable way to go. No. Here are some of his posts from that game: + Show Spoiler + On July 22 2011 18:34 Palmar wrote: lol, I can see why people say you're good Ace, you somehow convinced half the thread that a random lynch on day 1 is a good idea? Like, I've played 8 mafia games, 5 of them we've lynched scum or 3rd party on day 1. That's far higher than 25%. Is this just some clever ploy to start a discussion or try to figure out who is going to be the scummy white knight who trashes your plan? btw, Killing ace day1 is stupid, just lynch him day 2 because the mafia will shoot him if he's not part of their team. On July 22 2011 21:26 Palmar wrote: your mother. But it's still interesting. Ace proposes terrible plan, Jacinto and VE don't like it, DragonReborn actually likes it. Like.. would scum actually take the chance? The lynch isn't really 25% chance because the mafia can co-ordinate their votes, if they so please, so I think what DragonReborn did was stupid, but probably not scummy. On July 23 2011 03:15 Palmar wrote: Ace's argument is basically revolved around this sentence. This is brilliant, from this sentence, Ace pulls two things that simply aren't true. point a) he says I claim to speak for town. This is incorrect, I say this in a general way "Looking at any given mafia game from the perspective of the town players" would've been more accurate, but I assumed that people wouldn't try to twist things that aren't there. and point b) he says that I'm throwing around false facts, again, just not true. If people actually bother to read the sentence, you can see I specifically say "and judging by the 8 games that I have played". Any statistician will tell you the sample size is too small to really mean anything, but it's all I have, so I throw it out there. Feel free to provide more statistics. So, Ace is being guilty of exactly the thing that he has accused me of, namely putting words in people's mouth. Sure, I felt after initially reading the thread that there was more support for the RL plan than there actually was. And I wrote the post on DR without actually checking if he had explicitly suggested we RL, while in truth he had simply said he'd be fine with it. Now, that this is out of the way, I really want people to take a look at the list that DR posted, it really, really is something that strikes me as very odd. And yes town, this is Ace leading a bad lynch, I'm not still sure if it's because he is scum and this is the best thing he could come up with, or if it's because he simply didn't read/understand my posts. There is a deliberate attempt by him to contribute something. Sometimes he succeeds, other times you can see the mafia in him. That's what I noticed in his other games as mafia; he makes paragraphs in his post to try to blend in. This game there aren't any paragraphs of trying to blend in, just "let's kill this guy". Yes, I agree that his town contribution is lacking at this point, but he isn't making an attempt to hide himself as almost all mafia do. I've nailed tons of mafia based on past behavior. You shouldn't say it's unreliable. I agree it on its own isn't sufficient, but it's an incredibly powerful tool. I'm not voting for Palmar anytime soon. | ||
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nard
Germany124 Posts
we have way more interesting candidates imo. 1. servyn, for obvious reasons. no need to repeat it the 5th time 2. foolishness, why do you think Mig's post is more scummy than the last few posts of servyn? i kinda understand why the post sounds scummy as it adds nothing new and tries to convince, but what is your opinion about servyn then? 3. mig, foolishness has a point which shouldn't be forgotten. 4. dropbear, i have no idea. curious though. of course he was pushed in the defensive most of the day but didnt give anything scummy away during that. that mayor suggestion was weird though. 5. hiro protagonist, waiting to read more posts from you as you're one of the very few people in the game i know from before. so far you posted just the bare minimum.. :3 regarding "pressuring": do it more carefully please or: don't throw your votes around because of some lesser scummy part you see in a post and retract them 30 minutes later. this made the thread pretty messy already which helps scum more than town. | ||
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RayzorFlash
Canada253 Posts
I'm hesitant on Palmar just because he's been creating a far from ideal first Day in here... He contributed the main talking point sure, but his argument for that talking point was very weak... However, Dropbear has definitely acted a bit suspicious and got overly defensive, and the mayor idea seems scummy because he recommended himself for it right off the bat... Those 3 seem like the major suspects this first day... I think (at least) ONE of Palmar or DropBear is definitely a scum, and if we start nearing a majority on either of them I will switch my vote from Sevryn and get him at a later date... I am most definitely voting for one of those 3 though | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On August 20 2011 12:39 nard wrote: ffs don't vote palmar on day 1. do you think scum would behave that way? we have way more interesting candidates imo. 1. servyn, for obvious reasons. no need to repeat it the 5th time 2. foolishness, why do you think Mig's post is more scummy than the last few posts of servyn? i kinda understand why the post sounds scummy as it adds nothing new and tries to convince, but what is your opinion about servyn then? 3. mig, foolishness has a point which shouldn't be forgotten. 4. dropbear, i have no idea. curious though. of course he was pushed in the defensive most of the day but didnt give anything scummy away during that. that mayor suggestion was weird though. 5. hiro protagonist, waiting to read more posts from you as you're one of the very few people in the game i know from before. so far you posted just the bare minimum.. :3 regarding "pressuring": do it more carefully please or: don't throw your votes around because of some lesser scummy part you see in a post and retract them 30 minutes later. this made the thread pretty messy already which helps scum more than town. This post makes me a bit suspicious. To me this looks a lot like a "summary post" that was created to make it look like you are contributing. In reality lets take a look at each of your points. 1.if there is no need to repeat it why make a list? 2. if i recall correctly he did actually provide reasoning about servyn 3. again, rehashing things that dont need to be said 2 posts later 4. wishywashy post about maybe dropbear is suspicious, but maybe not, but maybe... 5. maybe the only point that contributes anything you then post a bit of "policy" saying to focus on the big stuff and not the little scummy parts. To me, this post is scummier than anything you mentioned in your 5 points. | ||
Mig
United States4714 Posts
Your defense of Sevryn is extremely suspect. Your reasons for defending him are he pointed out a stealth vote and he came back to defend himself? Really did you read his defense? He came back posted 4 lines in which he said A) he sheeped palmar to pressure vote someone he didn't find scummy and B) he took his vote off because he was afraid people would lynch him for it. What type of player is more likely to vote for someone they think is innocent and then immediately backtrack once people call them out because they don't want to be lynched, town or mafia? Yet somehow that defense was good enough to alleviate your suspicions...... Sevryn is still by far the best lynch today. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 20 2011 15:14 Mig wrote: You are really stretching on a couple points to make me appear scummy foolish. Your meta argument is null at best, you say I don't post with attitude as town yet you provide no examples of me doing it as mafia. My post wasn't a text wall or gibberish I concisely summed up sevryn's scummy actions in a few lines. Your point about me not adding anything new is accurate but I would rather state what convinced me of sevryn being scum than vote and give no reasons. Your defense of Sevryn is extremely suspect. Your reasons for defending him are he pointed out a stealth vote and he came back to defend himself? Really did you read his defense? He came back posted 4 lines in which he said A) he sheeped palmar to pressure vote someone he didn't find scummy and B) he took his vote off because he was afraid people would lynch him for it. What type of player is more likely to vote for someone they think is innocent and then immediately backtrack once people call them out because they don't want to be lynched, town or mafia? Yet somehow that defense was good enough to alleviate your suspicions...... Sevryn is still by far the best lynch today. It's more about opportunity cost at this point. If Sevryn is mafia we can expect him to be inactive the rest of today, tonight, and tomorrow if we leave him alone. If he's town he will be active and posting his own thoughts. Half way through tomorrow it should be immediately clear what his role is. You on the other hand I'm not so sure of. | ||
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Mig
United States4714 Posts
On August 20 2011 15:42 Foolishness wrote: It's more about opportunity cost at this point. If Sevryn is mafia we can expect him to be inactive the rest of today, tonight, and tomorrow if we leave him alone. If he's town he will be active and posting his own thoughts. Half way through tomorrow it should be immediately clear what his role is. You on the other hand I'm not so sure of. Ah so it's just that easy if sevryn lurks he is mafia but if he is active he is town. Why ignore all the scummy things he has done already? Instead of addressing any of his actions you are instead just defending him with well we can tell whether he is town or not if we let him live awhile. Why does that reasoning not apply to everyone? And you aren't sure of what exactly? | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 20 2011 16:07 Mig wrote: Ah so it's just that easy if sevryn lurks he is mafia but if he is active he is town. Why ignore all the scummy things he has done already? Instead of addressing any of his actions you are instead just defending him with well we can tell whether he is town or not if we let him live awhile. Why does that reasoning not apply to everyone? Because you're a good player? | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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QuickSilver7
Russian Federation69 Posts
First up is Trotske: On August 20 2011 08:40 Trotske wrote: I agree I think Sevryn is looking pretty scummy but I am curious what you guys think about Foolishness this is his one post after the game started. he agree's with dropbears mayor plan which gives one person the power to decide between tow people and chooses someone who hasn't been acting super pro town. This scream scummy to me, inactive and then comes in with a single line to vote on a not very town plan imo. so until he defends himself some more i'm goign to vote sevryn but foolishness needs to post something more or I am going to start pushing for his lynch. What this post says: “hey guys I wanna go with the current bandwagon but if my argument against foolishness gains any supporters I’ll be happy to jump ship.” Why is this scummy? Because you’re supposed to vote for the person you believe is most likely to be scum. His vote is on sevryn until he posts more but he says that foolishness needs to post more or he’ll vote him as well. He doesn’t seem to be voting for someone he feels is scum. If you don’t have a good read on someone then don’t vote them, this seems pretty basic. Next up is hiro protagonist: Here are his posts + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2011 13:51 hiro protagonist wrote: this game started all ready? Palmar is scum. See you in the morning! On August 19 2011 13:54 hiro protagonist wrote: QuickSilver7 gets my vote for best opening post. On August 19 2011 13:59 hiro protagonist wrote: your right, I was Trolling. I Was just joining in the fun that was the first few pages of this thread. Be sure that the rest of my posts will look like your first one did. Absolutely worthless if he’s town, great job lurking if he’s scum. I have a slightly scummy read on him atm but there is a better target as I’ll illustrate. Our scum dying today is xtfftc, he does the same thing that Trotske does. On August 20 2011 05:09 xtfftc wrote: ##Vote: Palmar He obviously had something in mind and there's no way he wasn't aware of how his accusations would be perceived by the rest of us. However, his strategy hasn't benefited town by now. He has until the deadline to convince me to vote DropBear or BrownBear. If nothing meaningful comes out of the discussion initiated by him, I'd rather have one less player who throws arbitrary accusations around. I'd also like to point out that it shouldn't be that difficult to convince me to switch to DropBear, considering DropBear's behaviour. So lemme get this straight, he votes Palmar to try and get Palmar to convince him that DB or BB are scum? He doesn’t even think Palmar is scum but he’s fine killing him if it means “one less player who throws arbitrary accusations around” Townies throw accusations around not mafia, mafia want to lurk where they won’t be seen. He also picks DB and BB as people who he’d switch to if Palmar magically convinces him that one of them is scum. However he doesn’t give any reasons why he’d vote for these people other than a very vague reference to DB’s “behavior.” Look who’s throwing around arbitrary accusations now. Xtfftc is the scummiest person in my eyes so let’s look beyond this post. Here is another: On August 19 2011 08:46 xtfftc wrote: I don't have anything to add really - as long as we're all active, all is good. I'd just bear in mind that people don't want to die, even in a game. Woa red flags going up all over the place, for context xtfftc was posting some troll crap at the beginning about democracy and random stuff which Curu called him out on. Firstly he says he has nothing to add, bad bad bad, as a townie you can always add to the discussion. For context, this post comes in the middle of a discussion about lynching lurkers and different lynch organization techniques. A townie should have lots to say on this subject, after the lynch is how we’re killing scum. Yet xtfftc doesn’t address any of this and skates by with a very neutral “as long as we're all active, all is good.” Then he drops the bomb “I'd just bear in mind that people don't want to die, even in a game” a townie would be happy to die, every townie that dies at night is a blue that didn’t get sniped (or a medic failure lolol  ). Townies should have no fear of death and be contributing as much as possible, any reticence towards posting indicates something to hide and that indicates scum.Anyway next post: On August 19 2011 18:06 xtfftc wrote: Snowball effect = one person deciding to do something and the others following. One person is not a problem unless the others follow suit. I apologise if the way I expressed myself was a bit hard to understand but by twisting my words all you do is make me suspicious. I already explained my position on lurkers and their effect on the game. Asking me to repeat myself is generating spam - and we all know who benefits from spam. As for lynching/using town KP on them is fine as long as we don't have better leads. Making a lurkers list is good as long as we don't set some arbitrary posting criteria. However, the active players appear to be unimpressed by your overzealousness and I don't think that they will allow your views on it to influence voting too much, so I'm fine with the idea. And something unrelated - it would help the game a lot if we start every name with a capital letter; it makes reading page after page much easier. So Xtfftc instead of xtfftc, etc. I don't expect everyone to start doing it but just consider it, please. The nested quotes here show the little exchange about democracy I was talking about earlier. Now I would have let that whole thing go as early game trolling and not taken anything he said seriously, but rather then say “oh hey nbd I was just trolling”, xtfftc chooses to defend his comments which means he meant them, if he mean them than GeyMist’s argument for xtfftc’s posts being scummy is suddenly relevant. Beyond the democracy exchange this post also rehashes stuff others have been saying about lurkers and town KP, adding nothing new to the table. The very definition of CWC. My vote is going on xtfftc. He’s made several scummy posts and contradictions and his lynch reasoning is truly appalling. The other people I mentioned earlier in this post are good secondary targets, FOS on all of them as I’ll be pushing for them tomorrow. Random closing thoughts I agree with Foolishness on Mig, I won’t repost his argument here. Currently facing modkill are: darkponcho, Barundar FOS BrownBear I doubt that Palmar, DB, or sevryn are scum. None of them have made a very glaring scum post yet. DB’s mayor thing is retarded but it’s really not something a scum would do. Things may change in later days but currently there are much better lynch candidates out there. | ||
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hiro protagonist
1294 Posts
On August 19 2011 20:42 nard wrote: good morning! lol! hiro and I are damaged from last mini mafia where palmar singlehandedly won the game :D hey to both of you. regarding the early accusations: i see nothing yet which lets me believe we have a scum for certain. but i am damaged from last mini mafia: if dropbear ever dies and turns out to be not scum, Palmar is on my hit list :D -__- why does no one remember that I was palmars scum buddy and we won together with some come from behind play, when are 3rd scum got himself killed day one. Palmar and I worked like a well oiled machine. A vote on Palmer on day 1 would be stupid. IMO, saying your got a read on Palmar day 1 is like saying Im sure I solved this crossword puzzle correct even though Im blindfolded. I just been rockclimbing the last 12 hours and I am beat. I will be a active, contributing member of town come morning. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
lynch sevyrn | ||
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