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On September 03 2012 01:19 drazak wrote:
I sleep kind of odd hours, I've been asleep, sorry for not being active. I was one of the first few posts, thus there was almost nothing of substance, the first few posts are almost always all fluffy filler. I don't have any good reads yet, just skepticism. I'll be back in a few hours to give you some better reads. To be honest, we're probably going to end up lynching a townie, and we /shouldn't feel bad/. Lynching a townie seems to almost always happen. While it's most beneficial to lynch mafia (obviously), anyone that talked about doing a no-lynch is out of their gourd, no-lynching doesn't affect the ratio at all, and doesn't even give us a chance at killing mafia. That just means that the mafia have a free night, maybe we get info from who they kill, but it's nothing conclusive.
I'll be back later today to make some better reads, not sure exactly when (N.B. I know I said in a few hours, could be closer to the end of the "day", could be later in the actual day, etc) I'm helping move my dad into his new house.
I'm kind of suspicious of drazak. He says his gonna post in a few hours but its been alot of hours since then and he hasn't posted. And why talk about the no-lynch? You can't no-lynch. There is nothing to discuss about it. And isn't it strange that of all the days, it's the first day of mafia that his dad happens to be moving out. Seems like a false excuse to me.
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Alright, just got home, I can take some picture tomorrow if you want, if you need proof that I'm helping my father move. I wasn't sure dates/times until night time saturday EST. Yes, I sleep strange hours, if that makes me scum, that's a pretty bad read. Going to spend some time reading all of your filters, will post more in 30-90 minutes. I kind of wanted to play some PS2 Beta, but not getting lynched is more important  .
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On September 03 2012 02:19 Stutters695 wrote:
Regarding lists:
This might be just me, but I don't want lists posted throughout the game. It's an easy wall for scum to hide behind without explaining why they think what they do and without forcing them to ever commit.
Will have individual questions for people in a bit.
On September 03 2012 09:05 WeeTee wrote:sonic+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2012 21:14 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
For transparency, I think it's a good thing to for everyone to keep a list of suspects/non-suspects. This way we can hold people accountable for flip-flopping and actually demand some reasoning behind it. It'll also be easier to spot those key posts when later we'll be wading through tons of pages to do some background checks. Even though it's still early game and lots of information is yet to come, I think we might as well get this habit started now (reasoning in post above):
Townie:
thrawn
kush
Scum:
KillingTime
Kreb You are the one with the lists that I refer to, still this is a null read because list are not a bad idea.
So what's the concensus on list-making? I was the one promoting lists in the first place, I thought it was a good idea. Stutter's point a valid but I feel like it's just as easy, if not easier, to hide behind a wall-of-text. Some wall-of-text posters (I'm looking at you Strangelove), seems post reads even on players he has no reads on. Not necessarily scummy, but it doesn't help us. If you have reads you think are good there's no reason to drown them out by filling your post out with "non-reads". I'll have to admit the list idea didn't pan out the way I had hoped though.
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On September 03 2012 14:42 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 02:19 Stutters695 wrote:
Regarding lists:
This might be just me, but I don't want lists posted throughout the game. It's an easy wall for scum to hide behind without explaining why they think what they do and without forcing them to ever commit.
Will have individual questions for people in a bit. Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 09:05 WeeTee wrote:sonic+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2012 21:14 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
For transparency, I think it's a good thing to for everyone to keep a list of suspects/non-suspects. This way we can hold people accountable for flip-flopping and actually demand some reasoning behind it. It'll also be easier to spot those key posts when later we'll be wading through tons of pages to do some background checks. Even though it's still early game and lots of information is yet to come, I think we might as well get this habit started now (reasoning in post above):
Townie:
thrawn
kush
Scum:
KillingTime
Kreb You are the one with the lists that I refer to, still this is a null read because list are not a bad idea. So what's the concensus on list-making? I was the one promoting lists in the first place, I thought it was a good idea. Stutter's point a valid but I feel like it's just as easy, if not easier, to hide behind a wall-of-text. Some wall-of-text posters (I'm looking at you Strangelove), seems post reads even on players he has no reads on. Not necessarily scummy, but it doesn't help us. If you have reads you think are good there's no reason to drown them out by filling your post out with "non-reads". I'll have to admit the list idea didn't pan out the way I had hoped though.
Hold on a second first I get accused of being wishy washy then when I change (as the game develops and more information comes out) I get accused of making lists then when I get told that is easy to do I change and I get accused of making walls of text? If I wasn't to write anything I would be accused of lurking... Everyone has a style they can hide behind, why not both. Have lists have walls of texts. (btw this is nowhere near the kind of walls of text I would normaly produce) I do like a little flavour in my posts... Also I did mention non reads incase people asked me about "what do you think of x person" This shouldn't be a reason for an accusation or suspicion. (see second last paragraph)
It seems like I am getting set up for a day two or three lynch. My reasoning behind this is I seem to being baselessly accused in a by the by manner so when they get the opportunity people will remember me as someone suspicious. Also to Kush yeah Sonic I and Killing are actually fairly close in play style, this is probably why we don't trust each other at all.
That said going out to uni will be back in several hours.
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I think at this point we need to start some wagons, we need them to start with some time left for EOD to be able to get some reactions and information to work with. More than one, because have 2-3 wagons will give us better opportunities to analyze voting patterns later. I think the best strategy is to wagon suspect lurkers to force reactions/info and adjust accordingly. I'm sure there are at least one scum among the more active posters but we can deal with active posters later. My take on the lurkers (Kville, Cubu, drazark, stutters, weetee):
Kville
Essentially hasn't posted anything. This is definitely suspect, but IF he is a townie who is just really busy starting a wagon won't force any reactions and thus he's not a good target for a wagon right now.
Cubu:
The weird spazz of this thread. A solid non-contributor. I tend to give the spazzes the benefit of the doubt. Let's look at his short posting history (highlighting points of interest):
+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2012 11:02 Cubu wrote:
But how do you lynch that which you cannot see? On September 02 2012 11:04 Cubu wrote:
And it might be that they are busy doing something offline (school, work etc) so it's hard to judge whether they are lurking or just afk. On September 03 2012 00:37 Cubu wrote:
I was thinking, what if the mafias are staying quiet to avoid attention to themselves. Maybe, those lurkers are infact the mafia and are trying to just let the others kill each other. There are 12 people playing and 4 mafias (or was it 3?). The fact of the matter is that we have no clues in the first day. So no matter how much we think about it, its all random. Lets kill A, no lets kill B, makes no difference in terms of probability. Of course the chance is in favour of the mafia, because they are the minority.
3/12 = 25% in a random choice. That is 25% chance of randomly lynching the mafia on the first day, which means 75% chance of lynching the townie. I'm thinking the mafia is just waiting for people to accuse each other while they stay silent, away from the accusations, away from the townies attention.
So overall, there is 25% chance of someone being mafia, but if we are not thinking about all 12 to kill (i.e a discussion involving severall loudmouths accusing and defending each other while the mafia are quietly taking their time) it isn't really 25% but infact 0. On September 03 2012 11:44 Cubu wrote:
guys, before you lynch me, how about we go on with the plan of lynching the lurkers? On September 03 2012 11:44 Cubu wrote:
and its cubu, not cuba
This is a really bad defense on his part. His posts doesn't make any sense. He suspects scum to have a plan of lurking, while being a lurker himself, and he doesn't know if there's 3 or 4 scum in the game. But the thing is, when looking at his posting history, he has to be on some weird ass level for him to be scum. Let's apply occram's razor, newbie scum don't level. As I said before, lurking scum usually tends to make their few posts rational (see: stutters). He comes across more as a confused townie to me.
drazark:
Contributes little to nothing. Claims to have little time to post due to helping his father to move. I don't think making up excuses like that is something scum would do to avoid posting. They already tend to start out the game feeling kind of guilty, spending the first entire day building up an unnecessary lie isn't very scum-like. Not a strong read either direction, he just recently posted and hopefully he can contribute more shortly.
Stutters:
Only made one post in this thread. In it he adds little in terms of analysis and rationalizes that a low post count doesn't have to be scummy by using an old thread as "alibi", which in itself is weak argumentation. Along with his non-contribution I think he makes a good lynching candidate.
WeeTee:
Not willing to let him off the hook after making a fluffy intro post and then a list of suspects mostly re-hashing old information/reads from earlier in the thread. A decent candidate for lynching, but since he's shown signs of being willing to contribute more, he might be better to reevaluate later.
I personally favor a ##vote stutters wagon. I don't mind a cubu or weetee wagon to see how they react. Drazark would be fourth.
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On September 03 2012 15:24 JacobStrangelove wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 14:42 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On September 03 2012 02:19 Stutters695 wrote:
Regarding lists:
This might be just me, but I don't want lists posted throughout the game. It's an easy wall for scum to hide behind without explaining why they think what they do and without forcing them to ever commit.
Will have individual questions for people in a bit. On September 03 2012 09:05 WeeTee wrote:sonic+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2012 21:14 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
For transparency, I think it's a good thing to for everyone to keep a list of suspects/non-suspects. This way we can hold people accountable for flip-flopping and actually demand some reasoning behind it. It'll also be easier to spot those key posts when later we'll be wading through tons of pages to do some background checks. Even though it's still early game and lots of information is yet to come, I think we might as well get this habit started now (reasoning in post above):
Townie:
thrawn
kush
Scum:
KillingTime
Kreb You are the one with the lists that I refer to, still this is a null read because list are not a bad idea. So what's the concensus on list-making? I was the one promoting lists in the first place, I thought it was a good idea. Stutter's point a valid but I feel like it's just as easy, if not easier, to hide behind a wall-of-text. Some wall-of-text posters (I'm looking at you Strangelove), seems post reads even on players he has no reads on. Not necessarily scummy, but it doesn't help us. If you have reads you think are good there's no reason to drown them out by filling your post out with "non-reads". I'll have to admit the list idea didn't pan out the way I had hoped though. Hold on a second first I get accused of being wishy washy then when I change (as the game develops and more information comes out) I get accused of making lists then when I get told that is easy to do I change and I get accused of making walls of text? If I wasn't to write anything I would be accused of lurking... Everyone has a style they can hide behind, why not both. Have lists have walls of texts. (btw this is nowhere near the kind of walls of text I would normaly produce) I do like a little flavour in my posts... Also I did mention non reads incase people asked me about "what do you think of x person" This shouldn't be a reason for an accusation or suspicion. (see second last paragraph) It seems like I am getting set up for a day two or three lynch. My reasoning behind this is I seem to being baselessly accused in a by the by manner so when they get the opportunity people will remember me as someone suspicious. Also to Kush yeah Sonic I and Killing are actually fairly close in play style, this is probably why we don't trust each other at all. That said going out to uni will be back in several hours.
I still think you're wishy washy. Like I said, I don't think your posts are totally lacking content, I just think you're mixing in too much crap to make them easy to follow. I think it's your way of writing it's your way of writing. If someone specifically ask you for a read on someone (which isn't a very good question to begin with), go ahead and answer. Otherwise just focus on your valuable reads and don't drown them out.
I totally agree we have a similar playstyle. We're both starting from scratch and adjust probabilities accordingly (as a semi-pro poker player that approach is what comes natural to me). That's why I've been less suspect of you than a lot of others (you haven't seen me include you on any lists). The fact that KillingTime's post hasn't stood out to me lately makes me belive he might be in that same category. I think Kush is a bit more on the spazzy side.
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Good morning all - ATM the player who I am most suspicious of is the one who has attempted to make a contribution to the thread but did so with a post that gave us no opinions or information that we didn't already have. I want to see if he is capable of at least trying to make posts that are interesting/valuable or if he is scum and just trying to skirt around beeing seen as a "lurker". I don't want the to be any trains started without one of them being Him because his style suggests so far that he might just come back and jump on one at the back.
##Vote WeeTee
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On September 03 2012 16:21 KillingTime wrote:
Good morning all - ATM the player who I am most suspicious of is the one who has attempted to make a contribution to the thread but did so with a post that gave us no opinions or information that we didn't already have. I want to see if he is capable of at least trying to make posts that are interesting/valuable or if he is scum and just trying to skirt around beeing seen as a "lurker". I don't want the to be any trains started without one of them being Him because his style suggests so far that he might just come back and jump on one at the back.
##Vote WeeTee
Killingtime to me it seems like you just woke up from your slumber and read Sonic's post and decided there il go with that.
How can you accuse me of not being interesting and link that to Vote worthy.
Sonics earlier post about me read:
"Not willing to let him off the hook after making a fluffy intro post and then a list of suspects mostly re-hashing old information/reads from earlier in the thread. A decent candidate for lynching, but since he's shown signs of being willing to contribute more, he might be better to reevaluate later."
Firstly I have to say that I made my reads on town and shed what experience I had about players and their alignments. To me this seems like something I should be doing. If you are saying that a town read is not valuable then please contribute your criticisms against town reads more precisely because I can't tell why you are voting me accept for this reason. In my opinion my previous post is succinct of my town reads and its what I wanted to say which should be valued by everyone as a whole. I wont let myself be slandered by those who don't read my posts well enough.
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Ok, I'm just going to go through everyone as I read their filter, there should be 11 so I'll number them.
In no particular order, besides the order I middle clicked to open their filters.
- KillingTime
Seems logical, has a good activity level, nothing seems scummy here, while he may have been afk for some time, so was I, it isn't necessarily scummy, just means we have lives. I think he's clean for now.
- kushm4sta
Seems to have good reads, not sure why he's calling out scumteams already, two or three people agreeing is likely not a scum team on D1, likely just people without reads bandwagoning a little. Doesn't seem obviously scumlike, but some of his accusations seem a little too strong, as if he's trying to throw accusation off himself, but could just be D1 jitters/trying to get conversation started.
- WeeTee
Fairly low post count, this isn't a big issue as my post count is low as well, but his post didn't have many original ideas, and he ignored some players in his analysis. This in and of itself is not particularly scummy, just doesn't help the town as much as it would seem. For now, he's neutral to me, not scum or particularly town-y.
- thrawn2112
Seems to be very active, haven't seen him in other games, so I don't know if this is his normal activity level or if he's being nervous and posting a lot to cover it. The constant comments about KotH are kind of annoying, and support the nervousness read. Might be a blue role, or mafia, he reads slightly on the scummy side, but not my first choice to lynch on D1.
- Xatalos
Fairly logical player, willing to make reads, I like how he points out what he agrees with when he quotes posts. Seems very analytical. Willing to bet for now that he's town. Doesn't seem to be bandwagoning, which is very good for his town case, only issue is if he is just trying to mislead, for now, strong town read.
- Kville
Not active, at all. He seems very active in NMIII or whatever the normal mini mafia he's in right now is. Willing to bet he's scum or useless for town. He has my vote at the minute.
- Cubu
Seems to have fairly fluffy posts, a bad defense of himself by deflecting from himself to lurkers. Maybe i'm a little tilted because of him calling me out for being a lurker, but I must have missed the post where someone pointed out in the rules that we can't no-lynch, I'm used to games where it's a possibility, even if it's a bad idea. I felt the need to show the logic for why no lynch is bad. He's my #2 scum read at the moment, after kville.
- Kreb
Seems to be fairly analytical, likes to look at the statistics. I'm getting a town read based off his wording, but I also think that the statistics could be a shield for any scumlike behavior. We'll see how his later posts go, but for now I'm willing to bet he's town.
- Stutters695
Only has one post, and it was regarding our lurker policy. He said he would have questions for us later, but I guess not? Kind of a scummy read, but he might just be afk. He hasn't had fluff though, which puts him after Cubu on my potential scumlist. Hopefully he posts more.
- JacobStrangelove
Seems to be very active, most of his posts seem to be pro-town. I can't find anything wrong with him (especially because he defended me for sleeping weird hours ). For now he's a town read, would need to see more posts from him before I can decide something else.
- Sonic Death Monkey
So, logical player, claims to be semi-pro poker player. Seems to hav egood reads, doesn't jump to conclusions. Seems like a strong player for late game, hope he's town. Again, for now he seems like town, need more posts to get a read for the other direction.
I hope the format is ok, wanted to try something out with a fair amount of bbcode. I think the only safe vote for now is for kville, as he has contributed nothing. We don't have enough to know if someone else is contributing misinformation or whatnot. Hopefully this sort of analysis is fine, I'll try to make a post like this every day that I'm alive.
I'd also like to apologize that it took so damn long, was watching the end of TI2 and then helping some people out, check my twitter if you don't believe me. (@drazak168).
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[green]Are we allowed to reference people's activity on TL outside of the game (It wasn't allowed in XXIV is why I'm asking.)?
@Sonic Death Monkey
It wasn't an alibi. It was a direct example of a low post count not being immediately a scumtell. I should have been more clear about it though. A low post count doesn't indicate scum or innocence. It should warrant heavy scrutiny to determine the motives behind their posts. Especially if it comes down to a debate between lurkers.
Your post is exactly what I'm taking about with lists. If I was a scum I wouldn't put myself in a position to be lynched by posting once or twice than bouncing for a day when you guys make it so easy to hide without committing to anything. All I'd have to do is post a list of everyone and sheep on townish people and say well he hasn't posted a lot so I'm not sure but W,X,Y,Z are scummy for not posting very often and I'd be covered through a D1 lynch without having to explain anything.
That said Drazak's list has one very interesting point.
On September 03 2012 16:45 drazak wrote:
[*]Kville
Not active, at all. He seems very active in NMIII or whatever the normal mini mafia he's in right now is. Willing to bet he's scum or useless for town. He has my vote at the minute.
.
This needs to be explained by Kville. There is no excuse for not posting while on TL considering there was a reminder before the game started.
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ebwop
are we allowed to reference people's activity on TL outside of the game(it wasn't allowed in XXIV is why I'm asking.)?
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On September 03 2012 17:11 Stutters695 wrote:
[green]Are we allowed to reference people's activity on TL outside of the game (It wasn't allowed in XXIV is why I'm asking.)?
@Sonic Death Monkey
It wasn't an alibi. It was a direct example of a low post count not being immediately a scumtell. I should have been more clear about it though. A low post count doesn't indicate scum or innocence. It should warrant heavy scrutiny to determine the motives behind their posts. Especially if it comes down to a debate between lurkers.
Your post is exactly what I'm taking about with lists. If I was a scum I wouldn't put myself in a position to be lynched by posting once or twice than bouncing for a day when you guys make it so easy to hide without committing to anything. All I'd have to do is post a list of everyone and sheep on townish people and say well he hasn't posted a lot so I'm not sure but W,X,Y,Z are scummy for not posting very often and I'd be covered through a D1 lynch without having to explain anything.
That's both fair points. I don't see lists as inherently bad though, we just need to evaluate the reasoning posters give for their lists (lists or no lists seems like a non-issue as long as we do our job).
I do agree low post counts don't need to be incriminating, but like I said I found your reference to another thread as kind of weak argumentation. This post helps your first post to make more sense though, so my scum alert is waning. It'd still need nice if you were able to contribute more or else you come off as neutral at best, ducking at worst.
I'm at uni atm and won't be able to contribute much for another 7-8 hours. I'm liking the development with lurkers starting to contribute more, should give us better information for the lynch.
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Im having a real hard time trying to figure out Cubu. His oneliners makes no sense. And first he defends himself by referring back to the plan of lynching lurkers (and doesnt seem to realize that he mostly were included in that group of players himself by many others). Then he posts a very weak case on drazak, who was already one of the most talked about potential lynch targets. Overall his defense is really bad. As sonic said, definitely a possible confused townie, but I disagree with
lurking scum usually tends to make their few posts rational . Confused mafia not knowing how to get stop the bandwagon is just as good of a possibility. He seems to be the most "scared" of getting lynched by turning left and right in his defence, and that is more of a mafia-sign to me.
Drazak, Weetee and Stutters started posting. None of them really convincingly (drazak maybe more than the rest). But then again, I'd have 8 or 10 voting candidates should I vote on people who hasnt convinced me of being townish.
Kville kinda still has a chance to redeem himself.
Dont know if I should just cast my vote and change it later if needed or just wait until later. I guess I'll cast it for now and see what happens. So Im voting for Cubu in the voting thread.
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On September 03 2012 17:57 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 17:11 Stutters695 wrote:
[green]Are we allowed to reference people's activity on TL outside of the game (It wasn't allowed in XXIV is why I'm asking.)?
@Sonic Death Monkey
It wasn't an alibi. It was a direct example of a low post count not being immediately a scumtell. I should have been more clear about it though. A low post count doesn't indicate scum or innocence. It should warrant heavy scrutiny to determine the motives behind their posts. Especially if it comes down to a debate between lurkers.
Your post is exactly what I'm taking about with lists. If I was a scum I wouldn't put myself in a position to be lynched by posting once or twice than bouncing for a day when you guys make it so easy to hide without committing to anything. All I'd have to do is post a list of everyone and sheep on townish people and say well he hasn't posted a lot so I'm not sure but W,X,Y,Z are scummy for not posting very often and I'd be covered through a D1 lynch without having to explain anything.
That's both fair points. I don't see lists as inherently bad though, we just need to evaluate the reasoning posters give for their lists (lists or no lists seems like a non-issue as long as we do our job).
Personally I kinda like lists because they kinda "forces" out a lot of information. That means you can go back later in the game to try and get clues and try to see patterns. Its likely harder for a mafia to hide and be deceptive if he has to constantly update his thoughts and follow through with his reasonings. If you just post "well I kinda think A and B seems scummy and C seems a bit towny" you revealed much less information and as such dont need to back up as much information later.
That said, it obviously doesnt have to be presented in a list format as long as you present the same amount of information. Its more that lists kinda force information out on the board.
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So it seems like the consensus is to lynch either cubu or kville. Anyone not feel this way?
Even if they aren't mafia they are solid policy lynches.
Now the question is which one.
Kville is the bigger lurker, but I think there is a higher possibility for cubu to actually be mafia.
Honestly cubu probably isn't mafia either, just because I think mafia would put more effort into their posts. Lynching one of these guys is better than lynching someone who is active though. So my vote is still on cubu.
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On September 03 2012 18:47 kushm4sta wrote:
So it seems like the consensus is to lynch either cubu or kville. Anyone not feel this way?
Even if they aren't mafia they are solid policy lynches.
Now the question is which one.
Kville is the bigger lurker, but I think there is a higher possibility for cubu to actually be mafia.
Honestly cubu probably isn't mafia either, just because I think mafia would put more effort into their posts. Lynching one of these guys is better than lynching someone who is active though. So my vote is still on cubu.
Dont get ahead of things really. Still votes on other players, and my vote isnt final either. I'll have to figure out if I prefer voting early (and switching later if needed) or just voting late. But went with the early vote this time.
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In response to all this conversation about lists:
I prefer more directed single accusations than lightly accusing a bunch of people at once. If a bunch of people really put the heat on someone and threaten him with a lynch, then shit starts to come out. But if you accuse someone with a few sentences, along with the 5 other people you are accusing, then the accused doesn't even really have to respond. Casting your net to wide is the metaphor.
Yes list making gives you a lot of insight into what people are thinking, but this is a double edged sword. If I have a slight suspicion of someone, I don't necessarily want to let them know that because that will only make them more careful.
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On September 03 2012 19:01 kushm4sta wrote:
In response to all this conversation about lists:
I prefer more directed single accusations than lightly accusing a bunch of people at once. If a bunch of people really put the heat on someone and threaten him with a lynch, then shit starts to come out. But if you accuse someone with a few sentences, along with the 5 other people you are accusing, then the accused doesn't even really have to respond. Casting your net to wide is the metaphor.
Yes list making gives you a lot of insight into what people are thinking, but this is a double edged sword. If I have a slight suspicion of someone, I don't necessarily want to let them know that because that will only make them more careful.
Yeah I don't like the lists. They cause town's focus to be too widespread which limits progress. If you have a read on somebody, and it's a read worth sharing, then it should take more than a couple sentences to justify. Making lists isn't scumhunting, it's fluff. You should be spending your time making accusations and questioning people instead of spitting out the status quo on each player.
Gonna get my vote in next post
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On September 03 2012 18:47 kushm4sta wrote:
So it seems like the consensus is to lynch either cubu or kville. Anyone not feel this way?
Even if they aren't mafia they are solid policy lynches.
Now the question is which one.
Kville is the bigger lurker, but I think there is a higher possibility for cubu to actually be mafia.
Honestly cubu probably isn't mafia either, just because I think mafia would put more effort into their posts. Lynching one of these guys is better than lynching someone who is active though. So my vote is still on cubu.
No need to limit ourselves this early. Like I said before there are other decent option and we don't want too many to feel safe this early. If scum feel safe they're more likely to stay away from the thread and we gain no info.
On September 03 2012 19:01 kushm4sta wrote:
In response to all this conversation about lists:
I prefer more directed single accusations than lightly accusing a bunch of people at once. If a bunch of people really put the heat on someone and threaten him with a lynch, then shit starts to come out. But if you accuse someone with a few sentences, along with the 5 other people you are accusing, then the accused doesn't even really have to respond. Casting your net to wide is the metaphor.
Yes list making gives you a lot of insight into what people are thinking, but this is a double edged sword. If I have a slight suspicion of someone, I don't necessarily want to let them know that because that will only make them more careful.
Now I feel kind of sorry I made this a big deal, I didn't mean to. Lists or no lists doesn't matter much as long as we do our job and evaluate the reasoning posters provide. Right now I feel like the "list discussion" is just clogging up the thread and prevents more productive discussion so this will be my last comment on the list topic.
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On September 03 2012 19:20 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 19:01 kushm4sta wrote:
In response to all this conversation about lists:
I prefer more directed single accusations than lightly accusing a bunch of people at once. If a bunch of people really put the heat on someone and threaten him with a lynch, then shit starts to come out. But if you accuse someone with a few sentences, along with the 5 other people you are accusing, then the accused doesn't even really have to respond. Casting your net to wide is the metaphor.
Yes list making gives you a lot of insight into what people are thinking, but this is a double edged sword. If I have a slight suspicion of someone, I don't necessarily want to let them know that because that will only make them more careful. Yeah I don't like the lists. They cause town's focus to be too widespread which limits progress. If you have a read on somebody, and it's a read worth sharing, then it should take more than a couple sentences to justify. Making lists isn't scumhunting, it's fluff. You should be spending your time making accusations and questioning people instead of spitting out the status quo on each player. Gonna get my vote in next post
Gah, I can't resist... this will be the last one! I agree making a list including everyone in the game usually ends with fluff and they are pretty worthless. Lists should only include a few of the most solid and/or relevant reads + reasonings.
Now, I'm done. Everyone, lists or no lists, provide your reads clearly and concisely. Don't ramble about players you don't have any reads on.
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EPT
