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Shottaz
United Kingdom414 Posts
-MMR Decay -Unranked and ranked -Can no longer get demoted during season I feel like a scrub saying this but i've always been Diamond, I got into Masters a few times so I was mid-high Diamond for the most part, now i'm Platinum. Fair enough it's only a badge but imagine how the low Diamond players feel in Gold! | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On November 22 2013 18:09 Shottaz wrote: The ladder was almost perfect during WoL, all I wished for was real MMR values shown. -MMR Decay -Unranked and ranked -Can no longer get demoted during season I feel like a scrub saying this but i've always been Diamond, I got into Masters a few times so I was mid-high Diamond for the most part, now i'm Platinum. Fair enough it's only a badge but imagine how the low Diamond players feel in Gold! I get it... I'm in the same situation. I think it's just a reality that the leagues are more difficult to get into. But I don't think things were perfect in WoL. Too many people were in Master. Too many people just played one placement a season and never lost that badge. MMR decay means people need to actually play to earn their league. I like it. (Although maybe it could be dialed down.) Unranked vs ranked is fine (it means more people are playing - even if some aren't as 'serious' as others). No in season demotions... Okay, I don't like this one. Even without the MMR decay it requires the system to promote less (combined with MMR decay and it's a bit of a mess). I still think that there's potential to iron itself out on it's own (in a few seasons). However, I hope there's some adjustment sooner than later. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
Can you add that to the OP ? | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
 edit: glad Blizzard seems to be working on it | ||
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KingLeonardo
12 Posts
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cptjibberjabber
Netherlands87 Posts
On November 22 2013 18:09 Shottaz wrote: The ladder was almost perfect during WoL, all I wished for was real MMR values shown. -MMR Decay -Unranked and ranked -Can no longer get demoted during season I feel like a scrub saying this but i've always been Diamond, I got into Masters a few times so I was mid-high Diamond for the most part, now i'm Platinum. Fair enough it's only a badge but imagine how the low Diamond players feel in Gold! I fought my way up to platinum and I was so happy. Then I started fighting my way up, seeing diamonds every now and again.... and now i'm gold rank 80. Sad panda . | ||
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ReMinD_
Croatia846 Posts
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Slydie
2030 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On November 22 2013 19:52 ReMinD_ wrote: Why do people care so much about league placement? It's just an artificial metric to make you believe you're making progress. As long as most of your matches are against opponents of similar MMR, it doesn't matter if you're in Gold or Diamond. And compared to the total number of players, your relative position on the ladder is the same as it has always been. If you've been in Diamond and now demoted to Gold, that also happened to most of other Diamond players. So you're basically playing same opponents as before, only your 'badge' is now different. Big deal. I guess some people are shallow.  But yeah, the actual issue is that more games are one sided now (at least the ones I play), which implies that I am playing against more players I am not supposed to play. | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
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korona
1098 Posts
On November 22 2013 19:52 ReMinD_ wrote: Why do people care so much about league placement? It's just an artificial metric to make you believe you're making progress. As long as most of your matches are against opponents of similar MMR, it doesn't matter if you're in Gold or Diamond. And compared to the total number of players, your relative position on the ladder is the same as it has always been. If you've been in Diamond and now demoted to Gold, that also happened to most of other Diamond players. So you're basically playing same opponents as before, only your 'badge' is now different. Big deal. It is not only the leagues. But when vastly different skill level of players share similar MMR the matches become one-sided & you can never tell in the beginning of match what skill level of player you are facing. For example, if you typically have diamond range MMR and you have been dropped to gold via MMR decay. When you are matched against typical gold level player, you most of the time win him with ease. But if your opponent has decayed even from higher than you (master), it is likely that he crushes you. Thus in some matches it seems like you can do whatever you want & still win. And in some other matches it seems you had no chance to begin with. And as you do not know in the start of the game who you are facing against, you cannot even adjust your strategies / playstyle / mentally prepare. In the past the matchmaker most of the time matched you against similar level players. It is not the case anymore as Blizzard tampers the MMR directly when players have been inactive for 2 weeks or more. | ||
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spirates
Sweden148 Posts
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korona
1098 Posts
On November 22 2013 20:42 spirates wrote: Well the more you play the better you become. So if you are in GM and you play, you will become better. But so is everyone else around you, so I would say yes the skill lvl is always going up, but with dimenishing returns ofc, just like a lnx curve where y is skill level But your development also slows down if you play against opponents of vast skill range. For example if you are practicing certain new build and play against considerably weaker opponent, you will likely win even if you do multiple mistakes. You don't necessarily even realize what the mistakes were. Then you use the same build against much stronger opponent. You may do less mistakes, but you are still crushed as the opponent was e.g. much stronger mechanically. It may seem like the build you are practicing is not viable at all, even if the true reason might just be that you were so much mechanically weaker than your opponent, that the build did not matter. But if you are matched against similar level opponents you can gradually improve & adjust your strategies as you can rely on the feedback you get from the match. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
These are the stats right now (whow knows how precise they are, but you get the picture): http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league So the 20% per league is just something we have to get out of our minds and then I kinda like the new(?) system. Bronze is the biggest, silver second biggest etc. and Master the smallest. So what this does is, a promotion actually is something to be proud of again and if you are gold or plat you aren't a scrub, but a pretty solid player (at least top top25%). So I like the new sizes of the leagues, let's just hope they adjust the MMR deacay a bit. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1841 Posts
On November 22 2013 19:52 ReMinD_ wrote: Why do people care so much about league placement? It's just an artificial metric to make you believe you're making progress. As long as most of your matches are against opponents of similar MMR, it doesn't matter if you're in Gold or Diamond. And compared to the total number of players, your relative position on the ladder is the same as it has always been. If you've been in Diamond and now demoted to Gold, that also happened to most of other Diamond players. So you're basically playing same opponents as before, only your 'badge' is now different. Big deal. What is your logic here? You can say that about any game, period. Does any game really matter with respect to what league you are in, I don't think so.. How about a little reward for the little guy? We know we aren't Grandmaster players but at least give some incentive rather than just demote everyone without any real explanation. You can argue ladder decay, etc, but with so many hidden variables it's quite frustrating. Some people are saying "well you got that rank at the beginning of Hots so now it's normal again" I call bullshit on that, I was diamond in WoL and have played multiple season Master leagues players in Gold league now. It's a crap shoot, and a vicious cycle. If I play a legit Gold leaguer and smash him, that person will get mad and could theoretically stop playing because after the game he will see I'm a former Diamond player, so they might think, "well what the fuck is the point in laddering?" Conversely I played a 6 time former master in Gold league yesterday, got smashed and quit laddering for the day. You're right, it's really not a big deal, but if you think about it good and hard I'm sure you can see why this current system would influence some people to quit altogether. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On November 23 2013 00:31 Ctone23 wrote: What is your logic here? You can say that about any game, period. Does any game really matter with respect to what league you are in, I don't think so.. How about a little reward for the little guy? We know we aren't Grandmaster players but at least give some incentive rather than just demote everyone without any real explanation. You can argue ladder decay, etc, but with so many hidden variables it's quite frustrating. Some people are saying "well you got that rank at the beginning of Hots so now it's normal again" I call bullshit on that, I was diamond in WoL and have played multiple season Master leagues players in Gold league now. It's a crap shoot, and a vicious cycle. If I play a legit Gold leaguer and smash him, that person will get mad and could theoretically stop playing because after the game he will see I'm a former Diamond player, so they might think, "well what the fuck is the point in laddering?" Conversely I played a 6 time former master in Gold league yesterday, got smashed and quit laddering for the day. You're right, it's really not a big deal, but if you think about it good and hard I'm sure you can see why this current system would influence some people to quit altogether. Part of the problem is people with multiple accounts and that is not likely to change. People like laddering eu, kr, na. A free account for everyone is great, but the result is lower league players getting smashed. Today in plat I matched a guy who was 20-1 twice and he crushed me both times. On the bright side, you do get to play some great players. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
I just read on Battle.net that a Bliz Technical support guy has confirmed that Blizzard is aware of the issue and working to fix it. So we're not all crazy. There's definitely something going on with the ladder. | ||
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B-rye88
Canada168 Posts
Or is this what they do? | ||
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
Finally reaching plat again felt good (and that´s weird for me personally), however, the first time I got to plat was about a year and a half ago and even the thought of how much I have improved from the days that I used to play gold in the WoL and the fact that I was just climbing the ladder up again as a gold player feels just silly when I think how immensely I have improved in that time. I call it the casual syndrome. =/ | ||
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