• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:47
CEST 23:47
KST 06:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou7Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four0BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET6Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" DreamHack Open 2013 revealed The New Patch Killed Mech! Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy
Tourneys
$1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 INu's Battles #13 - ByuN vs Zoun Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Is there anyway to get a private coach? The Lose More Card BSL Season 21 OGN to release AI-upscaled StarLeague from Feb 24
Tourneys
300$ 3D!Community Brood War Super Cup #4 [ASL20] Semifinal B Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
[I] Funny Protoss Builds/Strategies Current Meta Roaring Currents ASL final [I] TvZ Strategies and Builds
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Series you have seen recently... Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1063 users

Is the ladder getting harder? - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 11 12 13 14 Next All
wrekkless
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada87 Posts
November 22 2013 18:13 GMT
#241
On November 22 2013 18:09 Shottaz wrote:
The ladder was almost perfect during WoL, all I wished for was real MMR values shown.

-MMR Decay
-Unranked and ranked
-Can no longer get demoted during season

I feel like a scrub saying this but i've always been Diamond, I got into Masters a few times so I was mid-high Diamond for the most part, now i'm Platinum. Fair enough it's only a badge but imagine how the low Diamond players feel in Gold!


Never mind the Gold league players who are now in Bronze.

On November 23 2013 02:29 DinoMight wrote:
I just read on Battle.net that a Bliz Technical support guy has confirmed that Blizzard is aware of the issue and working to fix it.


Any chance on a source?
Knowledge is power, so use that Observer!
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
November 22 2013 18:16 GMT
#242
On November 23 2013 03:13 wrekkless wrote:

Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 02:29 DinoMight wrote:
I just read on Battle.net that a Bliz Technical support guy has confirmed that Blizzard is aware of the issue and working to fix it.


Any chance on a source?


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10636803688

Although battle.net is blocked at my job so I can't really look too much into it. But i saw on my phone that a Blizzard Tech support guy noted that Blizzard is 100% aware of the issue.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
iGn1t3
Profile Joined May 2011
Hong Kong73 Posts
November 22 2013 18:19 GMT
#243
Wow, I feel better now, knowing that the ladder is actually skewed at the moment.

Demotion aside, I do faced a lot of better players in the sense that they are not necessarily better mechanically, but I do get punished hard for my silly mistakes, e.g. bad scouting, less than ideal wall off, not evacuating drones, not setting up queens ramp off, going 8 lings instead of 8 drones, not stopping a cannon from getting up due to not manually microing drones, not splitting armies when dropped, losing my queen to 12 run-by lings, dying to all-ins before muta switch, losing 20 banelings to 3 widow mines shots, not watching the minimap when 20 speed lings ran by etc.

Any one of these dumb mistakes will variably costed me the game TT. I feel like I really need to push harder before I can get back my former league.

Yea, the ladder really got harder nowadays.

I lose today to win tomorrow.
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
November 24 2013 02:01 GMT
#244
On November 21 2013 05:34 iamcaustic wrote:
EDIT: Gonna add the conversation with korona in here, since it's particularly relevant about how and why these graphs are the way they are. Also keep note that the first bar is actually 2013 Season 3, not 2013 Season 4 as stated in the image, so the differences are inflated a bit as the new league offsets were introduced for 2013 Season 4. I made a clerical error, but even comparing data from August 6th 2013 (Season 4) shows the same concept of disparity, just less extreme.


Here's my fancy attempt at graphs, based on AM region 1v1 data from nios.kr (June 1st, 2013 vs. November 18th, 2013). Basically demonstrates the changes in percentile thresholds at this point in time compared to the middle of this year.

[image loading]


Basically, if you got demoted this season, don't feel too bad about it. Chances are your MMR overall skill didn't actually drop significantly. Instead, it seems like we're looking at a combination of a reduced player base and built-in MMR decay:

Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 06:44 korona wrote:
On November 21 2013 06:22 iamcaustic wrote:
p.s. I also offered data from August 6th after your correction that June 1st was still 2013 Season 3, not 2013 Season 4 (I misremembered by just over a week). We can still see the disparity with the new data, but that's generally moot since the whole MMR decay thing has been explained. Do we know when MMR decay was introduced?

MMR decay was introduced either when HotS launched or patch 2.0.x that was applied to WoL one month earlier.

I saw its effects on some users' data already during the first two HotS seasons, but could not deduct the reason & did not spent more time to investigate. In start of the last season it got evident that there is a decay mechanism (lots of occurrences in S14 data). My first thought was that it has to be a bug in the ladder system as drops seemed too steep. But after more investigation it is clearly an intended feature (It would be interesting to know how they chose the current max decay value). Also Blizzard has not commented the issue publicly nor denied it.


Start dates for HotS seasons:

--- Initial offsets ---
S12: 2013-03-12
S13: 2013-05-01
--- Offsets changed ---
S14: 2013-06-10
S15: 2013-08-26
S16: 2013-11-11

For those interested, they can read more about MMR decay here.

Heya guys, just a reminder that if you liked my graphs, the post has been updated with some important information from korona. While the data doesn't lie, some of the original conclusions weren't wholly accurate so be sure to read the updated stuff.

Just a friendly PSA since I see korona posting like a broken record in this thread.
Twitter: @iamcaustic
craz3d
Profile Joined August 2005
Bulgaria856 Posts
November 26 2013 02:28 GMT
#245
On November 22 2013 18:09 Shottaz wrote:
The ladder was almost perfect during WoL, all I wished for was real MMR values shown.

-MMR Decay
-Unranked and ranked
-Can no longer get demoted during season

I feel like a scrub saying this but i've always been Diamond, I got into Masters a few times so I was mid-high Diamond for the most part, now i'm Platinum. Fair enough it's only a badge but imagine how the low Diamond players feel in Gold!


I'm finding it pretty funny how I keep running into 300apm zerg monsters in Gold league of all places.
Hello World!
VeTerrAn1
Profile Joined February 2013
Switzerland39 Posts
November 26 2013 12:34 GMT
#246
yeah i feel with you ... i m in platin right now. i could hold my rank compared to last season, so i m lucky i guess, but now i m facing very strong opponents, have 70-91 Winratio. Sometimes i just get overrolled by former masters which not could promote to dia/master again however ... i think the graph above is very nice and shows exactly how harder it is to reach higher leagues right now ...

so i know league shouldn't matter, but it is a big motivationfactor imo. I really hope blizzard will change something soon, but maybe the want exaclty what happens right now ... they want a more competitive ladder in the higher stages ... i don't know ... we ll see
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-26 13:29:07
November 26 2013 13:25 GMT
#247
I didnt play single match last season. This season I started playing again. First it put me into gold. Then after some games I got to plat. Currently I have 29 wins and 3 losses in 1v1 ladder. And I used to be in master league since wol. (In hots always in master) After games end some angry nerds start insulting me and saying im smurf or I dropped myself to lowerleagues to crush noobs. What I can to blizzard ladder system

About ladder getting harder. I have to agree. Even tho im not so good anymore in wol you could do mass hellion everygame and won all games until plat. You could 4 gate to diamond.
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
iAmBiGbiRd
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia1029 Posts
November 26 2013 14:19 GMT
#248
On November 26 2013 22:25 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I didnt play single match last season. This season I started playing again. First it put me into gold. Then after some games I got to plat. Currently I have 29 wins and 3 losses in 1v1 ladder. And I used to be in master league since wol. (In hots always in master) After games end some angry nerds start insulting me and saying im smurf or I dropped myself to lowerleagues to crush noobs. What I can to blizzard ladder system

About ladder getting harder. I have to agree. Even tho im not so good anymore in wol you could do mass hellion everygame and won all games until plat. You could 4 gate to diamond.


You could 4 gate to GM*
Hello friends:)
lisward
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Singapore959 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-26 14:26:45
November 26 2013 14:26 GMT
#249
LOL now this makes so much fucking sense, I was easily a gold player before this season, now i'm struggling like hell to beat bronze/silver players. I could just make more stuff and a move my way into gold but then all of a sudden people got better or something, then I realised like half of the silver players are ex-plat and i'm so confused.
Opinions are like phasers -- everybody ought to have one
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-26 14:28:17
November 26 2013 14:27 GMT
#250
On November 26 2013 23:19 iAmBiGbiRd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2013 22:25 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I didnt play single match last season. This season I started playing again. First it put me into gold. Then after some games I got to plat. Currently I have 29 wins and 3 losses in 1v1 ladder. And I used to be in master league since wol. (In hots always in master) After games end some angry nerds start insulting me and saying im smurf or I dropped myself to lowerleagues to crush noobs. What I can to blizzard ladder system

About ladder getting harder. I have to agree. Even tho im not so good anymore in wol you could do mass hellion everygame and won all games until plat. You could 4 gate to diamond.


You could 4 gate to GM*

Well, I have never heard of guy who only did 4gate and got into gm. But the point was that I could do all kind of stupid things and still won. My opponents apm was 60-70 in plat but now I mostly see 120-170
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
Rasias
Profile Joined November 2013
Germany51 Posts
November 26 2013 14:36 GMT
#251
I'm feeling the same, lot's of ex-master/diamond players. I'm playing in EU, just started again, silver league. About 50% of my lost games were against people with 200+ APM, which is more than double mine. I think the ladder system needs a lot of work to make the competition fairer for the lesser skilled and new players. It really isn't fun to get crushed by that sort of players, especially if you've just started and try to work yourself up the leagues. I think ex-master/diamond players should get matched with diamond/master players earlier (when they're still silver/gold league) and only in cases of low win % drop that hard.
reapsen
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany559 Posts
November 26 2013 17:31 GMT
#252
Damn! I just started playing again too. Was Plat for the longest time in WoL. Maybe played around 10 Ladder Matches in HotS Overall. Last one was in Feburary.

Wanted to give the game another shot (as written in my YALB)... this thread is not very motivational.

Luckily i don't give a fuck and will try anyways
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12237 Posts
November 26 2013 17:37 GMT
#253
On November 23 2013 03:16 DinoMight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 03:13 wrekkless wrote:

On November 23 2013 02:29 DinoMight wrote:
I just read on Battle.net that a Bliz Technical support guy has confirmed that Blizzard is aware of the issue and working to fix it.


Any chance on a source?


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10636803688

Although battle.net is blocked at my job so I can't really look too much into it. But i saw on my phone that a Blizzard Tech support guy noted that Blizzard is 100% aware of the issue.


Battle.net MVPs (I'm one also) are not official sources and should not be taken as such. If it's not a blue post, it didn't come from Blizzard.

Anyway, I was in the same group communication where we discussed the ladder state with some of the CMs, and they never said they were going to make a statement about it. The other MVPs who assumed so were in error.
Moderator
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
November 26 2013 17:41 GMT
#254
I was diamond on NA but didn't play HotS, but I got placed into silver in HotS. I've quickly become plat. Hopefully I can get diamond back. Certainly, I'm very surprised to have a much harder time against gold/plat players. Some are really terrible, but others aren't. Either Sc2 has lost tons of ladder players or the bnet is screwed as always.
TerranosaurusWrecks
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada187 Posts
November 26 2013 17:55 GMT
#255
doesn't this help raise the overall skill of the region though? I've always felt that top ranked players skill also improves with the average skill of the region. Maybe it will make people more motivated to train harder in order to reach the next league, it's certainly had that effect on me.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "Like you can train a n00b, but they will just be a trained n00b."
Ignorant prodigy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States385 Posts
November 26 2013 18:46 GMT
#256
On November 27 2013 02:37 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2013 03:16 DinoMight wrote:
On November 23 2013 03:13 wrekkless wrote:

On November 23 2013 02:29 DinoMight wrote:
I just read on Battle.net that a Bliz Technical support guy has confirmed that Blizzard is aware of the issue and working to fix it.


Any chance on a source?


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10636803688

Although battle.net is blocked at my job so I can't really look too much into it. But i saw on my phone that a Blizzard Tech support guy noted that Blizzard is 100% aware of the issue.


Battle.net MVPs (I'm one also) are not official sources and should not be taken as such. If it's not a blue post, it didn't come from Blizzard.

Anyway, I was in the same group communication where we discussed the ladder state with some of the CMs, and they never said they were going to make a statement about it. The other MVPs who assumed so were in error.


I take it the statement made that they see it as a "major issue" is true though?

http://www.twitch.tv/ignorantprodigy playing masters random with no hotkeys......big pimpin'
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-26 19:10:08
November 26 2013 18:58 GMT
#257
Today I was watching Kas' stream and after his placement matches he was placed in Gold...enough said
Dating thread on TL LUL
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12237 Posts
November 26 2013 19:38 GMT
#258
On November 27 2013 03:46 Ignorant prodigy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2013 02:37 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On November 23 2013 03:16 DinoMight wrote:
On November 23 2013 03:13 wrekkless wrote:

On November 23 2013 02:29 DinoMight wrote:
I just read on Battle.net that a Bliz Technical support guy has confirmed that Blizzard is aware of the issue and working to fix it.


Any chance on a source?


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10636803688

Although battle.net is blocked at my job so I can't really look too much into it. But i saw on my phone that a Blizzard Tech support guy noted that Blizzard is 100% aware of the issue.


Battle.net MVPs (I'm one also) are not official sources and should not be taken as such. If it's not a blue post, it didn't come from Blizzard.

Anyway, I was in the same group communication where we discussed the ladder state with some of the CMs, and they never said they were going to make a statement about it. The other MVPs who assumed so were in error.


I take it the statement made that they see it as a "major issue" is true though?



I don't believe that is accurate, but we can't assume anything without an official Blizzard statement on the matter.

As I pointed out in the MMR Decay thread, there is a balance between the system mechanics, which are working properly, and the community perception, which is now pretty frustrated. I don't know if it's serious enough to warrant a change, let alone an acknowledgement, and there is no reason to assume that any greater community outrage will spark either of those.
Moderator
seak99
Profile Joined November 2013
Canada69 Posts
December 01 2013 01:18 GMT
#259
just played a guy in gold league who is 95-4 win loss ration. Needless to say I got crushed. Not sure why they wouldn't have been promoted earlier. He seemed to Average out his record with Unranked matches so at first glance it looked like 50% win ratio.
Ha_K
Profile Joined November 2013
United States7 Posts
December 01 2013 04:31 GMT
#260
I think this is a better source from a community manager,

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10490649577?page=9#171
Prev 1 11 12 13 14 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft412
JuggernautJason68
Railgan 34
Nathanias 21
ROOTCatZ 3
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14131
Shuttle 479
Dewaltoss 108
UpATreeSC 103
Aegong 40
scan(afreeca) 36
NaDa 12
Dota 2
monkeys_forever285
Pyrionflax195
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps652
Stewie2K445
Foxcn181
Super Smash Bros
PPMD137
Liquid`Ken43
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu460
Other Games
Grubby2779
ScreaM1683
FrodaN1137
fl0m835
B2W.Neo670
shahzam351
Skadoodle236
C9.Mang0152
Sick152
Maynarde70
ViBE66
Trikslyr46
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL290
Other Games
BasetradeTV41
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta16
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift1567
• TFBlade853
Other Games
• imaqtpie1604
• Scarra627
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
2h 13m
Replay Cast
12h 13m
OSC
18h 13m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 1h
The PondCast
1d 12h
OSC
1d 14h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Online Event
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.