EPTHe's scum. He dies today.
TL Mafia LV - Page 110
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
He's scum. He dies today. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
This is regardless of your shady day 1 play. Sorry but this time you got caught. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On June 02 2012 12:31 Probulous wrote: The case is clear against you. You pushed a VE lynch and then let MZ railroad it through. You wre apparently in the thread all day but hardly contributed. Well it's not clear to me. I can't defend myself against something that isn't written. I pushed a VE lynch, which the majority of the players in the game found perfectly reasonable. Why does whether or not Meapak also posted a case have any impact on my alignment? Mine came first and my prefered lynch target was pushed through, what else was there to contribute? On June 02 2012 12:31 Probulous wrote: Then you blame VE for distracting you from zealos? Remind me to include my sarcasm tag next time. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
and guess what, that is a scumtell. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On June 02 2012 12:34 kitaman27 wrote: Well it's not clear to me. I can't defend myself against something that isn't written. you think about defense but you do not think about offense | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On June 02 2012 13:43 Kenpachi wrote: Kita is pretty calm for someone about to die. he just chainsawed Wiggles to try to defend himself in the most calm manner possible. and guess what, that is a scumtell. I'm guilty if I present a case against someone. I'm guilty if I don't? Is that how it works? Why shouldn't I be calm? I'll logically respond to anything that is brought up against me. Does no-one wish to comment on Mr.Wiggles? On June 02 2012 13:45 Kenpachi wrote: you think about defense but you do not think about offense I think Kenpachi has turned himself into a fortune cookie. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
1) the odd reaction to VE's death, 2) his original case on VE. The problem with the case was it boils down to "VE is play like VE guyz! lynch him!" Especially he quotes a post from VE who is calling people scum and says "The confidence coming from this post is not townlike". Well, perhaps not normal-townlike, but it's certainly VE town-like, or at least it doesn't indicate in any way whatsoever VE's alignment. 3) he lets MZ do the hard-pushing of VE Most of the rest of his filter doesn't really read that scummily. The question is, how much weight is it correct to assign to these points? Enough to condemn him out of hand? EchelonTee - I was having a gander at your filter, and I couldn't quite see where your DIE DIE DIE #vote kita came from. Even after VE flipped I didn't see this brewing, but now after the daypost utter certainty. Why are you so sure now? I have to read again kita's case on Wiggles as well as Wiggles filter. To the rest of you, it's a bit premature to be saying "lol bus!". | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5256 Posts
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
 Here is my story of Kita's game so far. There is more in filter but this cover the main ideas. It's a little long but please read it. 1.Brings up Lyncher for no real reason. I have been over this but essentially it seemed like Kita was more concerned about a lyncher than scum. The lyncher would be taking a huge risk to push himself into the mayor role even more so if they do not know their target. The whole lyncher thing was a distraction. Why do it? To me this did a few things - It allowed Kita to add something to the thread and make it look he was contributing without scum hunting. Note he is focused on the lyncher not mafia but he still looks like he is actively participating. - It created a huge distraction from what should have been the real focus of day 1, making sure that TOWN get into the power roles. By focusing on a minor role, he distracted us from our main goal. - it creates a climate of fear. He blew up the potential effect of the lyncher well beyond what is reasonable which meant that a lot of people were truly worried about a lyncher getting into the mayor role. - This gives Kita a source of credibility that is not really warranted. 2.Plants suspicion that Toad is a lyncher Here is his response to Toad's claim and some follow up quotes On May 28 2012 04:08 kitaman27 wrote: Hmm, mason would be a great claim for a lyncher. Doesn't matter if he's telling the truth on day two since he's already won by then. As much as I'd like to see a town role elected, we can't automatically assume toad is town. Why do it? - It subtly discredits Toad. Yes he says that Toad can prove his innocence the next day but his initial reaction is to label him as the role he has been obsessing about. It creates doubt which can then be expelled. Note that instead of Toad immediately being town (why would scum claim the easiest role to prove?) he is the lyncher until he proves otherwise. But Prob, didn't Kita defend Toad? Why yes that is his next action. 3. Kita defends Toad and discredits VE Now it is important to remember that Kita has done no scum hunting yet but he has managed to plant the seed that Toad is the lyncher which is apparently I really bad role. Now he comes to the rescue and shows how Toad can prove his innocence. When VE doesn't agree, VE is presented as scum. Think about this carefully because it became a big part of the reason VE got lynched. Kita says Toad is the lyncher (Klicky). The lyncher is a bad role (he made this clear). Why would VE be scum if he had reservations about Toad being elected as pardoner. Yes he would be held responsible but only AFTER he used the role. There is a conflict between thinking Toad is lyncher and he should be elected pardoner. It is not unreasonable to be wary especially when Toad (who is notorious for being a little unhinged) is the person in question. But suddenly this makes VE mafia? Why? I raised this multiple times but have not received a satisfactory answer. VE's suspicion of someone who WILL prove themselves (ie they haven't yet) makes little sense from a scum point of view. Anyway, Toad is not elected pardoner and the night comes and goes. 4. Kita pushes VE case Here is the link to the case (Klicky) and here is my response (Klicky). This is his big case against VE which is mostly about Toad and the fact that VE dropped his case against Kita. We now know he is town and can probably assume that he felt that a Kita lynch was not going to happen. Anyway Kita hammers this point again here (Klicky). Kita then raises the point that VE should have been focused on Zealos if his shot was blocked On May 31 2012 14:51 kitaman27 wrote: If you vig'd him at night and was roleblocked, why am I you're primary lynch target going into day two? Wouldn't it make more sense for your target to be the guy you just tried to kill? Whilst a valid point I would like to remind people that so far the case is that he discredited Toad (which make no sense from a mafia perspective); that he didn't follow through on the Kita case and that he didn't follow through on the Zealos case. Essentially it boils down to VE being unsure of his reads which is what most townies are. Yes he was all over the place but his actions could be explained from a town point of view and Kita based his entire case on that. Note that this post is a long way before the deadline but he never adds anything further. VE meanwhile was frantically flailing about trying to prove his innocence. I even prodded Kita about letting other do his dirty work but he just laughed it off. If he was so sure about VE why wasn't he the one pushing the wagon. No Kita was hoping that people would see MZ as the real force behind the VE lynch. After all he was the one who was shouting at people to lynch VE. MZ had the big walls of text explaining in detail why VE was mafia. Once that happened he could sit back and let the party roll confident that he had a chance for someone else to take the blame. Or better yet for everyone to take the blame and no consequences metered out. Kita started the wagon but once it gained speed he was nowhere to be seen. He was reading the thread because he responded quickly to me but he never added anything new. Even when others (Marvel, ET, WBG, myself) expressed doubts he never responded. He never explained anything, he just let the momentum take VE to the gallows. TLDR Kita created an atmosphere of fear that distracted town from scumhunting. He used the lyncher to subtly discredit Toad and then used Toad's ability to prove himself, to discredit VE. He posted a case on VE that boiled down to VE being unsure of his reads and let others railroad it home. kitaman27 must swing. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 02 2012 19:48 EchelonTee wrote: Read the thread Yus, and it went from you being a bit suspicious of kita to DIE DIE DIE with no explanation in between. Don't patronise me. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
wbg: given kita's head is on the chopping block, what do you make of his stance that he can't be clear whether Gambit is scum? This confuses me as I'd expect kita to be positive about lynching gambit if he was scum | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I guess I'm biased on Gambit though, I've been pushing him since n1 and all he's done since then is ninja vote to skirt the modkill. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I'm still surer about Gambit though | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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