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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On July 02 2012 23:15 carloselcoco wrote: FACT: Torres scored against Italy. It only shows how pathetic they preformed compared to three weeks ago. Fact: You are mad as hell. yeah...he scored against a demoralized italy with only 10 players left due to injury. You can't just ignore the loss of a player like that  | ||
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On July 03 2012 00:29 radscorpion9 wrote: yeah...he scored against a demoralized italy with only 10 players left due to injury. You can't just ignore the loss of a player like that Dude... ITS TORRES!!! | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On July 02 2012 16:26 Scorch wrote: I really didn't expect this outcome at all. Spain wasn't what they used to be and made it to the finals with mediocre play, while Italy performed very well in the last two games, even soundly beating tournament favorite Germany. My guess was ITA 2:1 ESP. It just felt like Italy deserved the title more. Then, suddenly, Spain turned it up. They were their former unbeatable selves who stomped all over the last two major tournaments and brought on the ownage. There was no stopping Spain, they were clearly not gonna be beaten yesterday. Still, I think 4:0 was too much. 2:0 would have sufficed. LOL 4-0 was too hurtful to you? How are Spain not the favourites? Obligatory lol video (that doesn't involve Italy) hahaha all the Torres reverse Italy bashing is sooo funny | ||
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Fleuria
England466 Posts
like I said if spain have more players coming through like jordi alba they will win the world cup again and be the first euro nation to win a cup in america and defend it | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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kemoryan
Spain1506 Posts
On July 03 2012 01:38 Fleuria wrote: I don't get why people are like spain sucked this tournament, fact is they sucked at the world cup as well played very sub par most games and still won due to moments of magical brilliance, the did not dominate that tournament at all, same happened again and in the final they played to the potential they showed in 2008 and totally dominated a very good italian side, same probably would of happened to Germany as their defence is horrible. like I said if spain have more players coming through like jordi alba they will win the world cup again and be the first euro nation to win a cup in america and defend it a team that sucks for the most part of the tournaments doesn't win 3 tournaments in a row unless they are the luckiest team in the history. And if that's the case why would you predict them to win next world cup? Makes no sense to me. | ||
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ecstatica
United States542 Posts
On July 02 2012 13:19 Rebs wrote: Central defenders maybe not, but the old fashioned defender hasgone out of fashion for a large part. Strikers are just as good as they used to be for most national teams. And actually Anelka wasnt much of a national teamer, It was mostly the midfield (Zidane) that won France 98 and Trezeguet, Henry upfront in 2000. They havent been much since then. You also have to realise that these players developed their legacies over time. Most teams are in a bit of flux right now with most defenders generally very young. Some of them will have their names alongside those guys others wont. Its not like those greats were infallible unstoppable forces either. They had bad periods and got criticized just like the players today. Just maybe not on the internet. Yeah I'm willing to accept this POV if you list those strikers for Euro teams here, you cant list Shevchenko either since he's way oldschool. Can Gomez go to toughest national league and become a top scorer like Sheva or Bierhoff did? Can Balotelli be compared to even second-tier Italian forwards from even 10 years ago? Where are those good strikers you talk about, you can argue for Rooney but is that really it? You're saying many players are young and they need time, but where did older players go that are supposed to be in the primes? Look at this: http://www.planetworldcup.com/CUPS/1998/squad_hol98.html - EVERY player was a star, both for their club and internationally. And they weren't always favored to win, because other teams were just as ridiculous. I don't see anything remotely close to this, maybe, undeservedly, I have no respect for those "up-and-coming" players, but it is looking sooo bleak versus what it used to be. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Are you people blind or mad or both? It's just that they are so much better than the rest, that they can win without even trying, so that's what they do(games vs france and portugal). They recognised a worthy opponent in italy and stepped up a notch and it wasn't pretty for the italians. | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On July 02 2012 16:08 Telcontar wrote: Now, win the 2014 WC for a 4th major in a row! I think this spanish squad will stay intact, for the most part, and they seem to have no problem staying motivated to win. That would truly be something to behold. Still, many challenges ahead before that can happen. Brazil have a very good, youthful squad (and home advantage), Germany will be looking to finally come good, Italy will always be a threat (unless they pull a 2010), and Argentina can be a real threat if they sort out their defence, and learn to get their superstar attackers to click. Many other good teams will be there as well, I'm sure. All in all, I'm super psyched! 2014 can't come soon enough. For the most part I see no reason they can't win again. Xavi - 34 Puyol - 36 Villa - 32 Torres - 30. I think only really Puyol is going to miss out on the World Cup but given they just won this without him and have the wonderful Javi Martinez (who's surely moving to a top club sooner rather than later). Xavi is more touch and go but he's not exactly a player who needs pace and Pirlo just showed a player of his ilk can do just fine. If Xavi does decline they've got Thiago, Ander Herrera, Fabregas, Itturaspe and others all lying in wait to take his place. Spain won the last World Youth Cup too and word from the Le Masia is that the Iniesta/Busquets/Fabregas/Pedro/Alba generation are pretty good, but the next generation coming through is even better. Brazil don't have the same talent they once had and the pressure on them will be phenomenal. Argentina can't defend so it's likely to be another Messi solo effort. Germany should be there or there about's if they learn to defend. Italy need to replace Pirlo who looks set to retire. There's a long time to go but Spain look really fucking good to take it again. | ||
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MartinN
Spain307 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On July 03 2012 02:45 ecstatica wrote: Yeah I'm willing to accept this POV if you list those strikers for Euro teams here, you cant list Shevchenko either since he's way oldschool. Can Gomez go to toughest national league and become a top scorer like Sheva or Bierhoff did? Can Balotelli be compared to even second-tier Italian forwards from even 10 years ago? Where are those good strikers you talk about, you can argue for Rooney but is that really it? You're saying many players are young and they need time, but where did older players go that are supposed to be in the primes? Look at this: http://www.planetworldcup.com/CUPS/1998/squad_hol98.html - EVERY player was a star, both for their club and internationally. And they weren't always favored to win, because other teams were just as ridiculous. I don't see anything remotely close to this, maybe, undeservedly, I have no respect for those "up-and-coming" players, but it is looking sooo bleak versus what it used to be. Rose tinted glasses all i can say. Im pretty sure i can safely say ive seen those guys play and ive seen these guys play, the game just within the last decade has become harder mechanically, tactically and fitness wise. Its harder to stand out especially with those 2 hammering records out like its nobodies business. I get th feeling you havent seen to many of those guys on the roster you just linked day in day out and are running more on thier names and records. Cant argue with that. Tell you what though. Ill play. Its funny you pointed out that dutch team because that was my favourite team back then and heaviliy influenced Van Gaals Barca, just like all of Van Gaals teams. Which he then proceeds to become unhappy with and fucks up.. anyway... Van Der Sar. Didnt really have much of a billing till he went to United late in his career and the start when he was at Ajax. Got thrown out when Gigi came in at Juve. Wasnt much of a "legend" till his time at United. National steam mainstay only by virtue of no real competition. He aged better than any keeper I can think of though. Haah Reizeiger. Mediocre defender played for Barca for a bit nothing special. Staam. Better than your average central defender round about the Laurent Blancs but not as good. Had a miserable time at United, bobbled around in Italy to the end of his career. Again got a lot of fanfare because Dutch football domestically was solid in the early 90s when he came up. The De Boer brothers were no stars anywhere they were again average plays. I dont even know what would make them stars on any team and again Barcelona with their dutch heavy input had seen quite a fair bit of them. They are respected for their high IQ and great service to their teams. But they never "starred" or were considered superb players. Just solid. Cocu, solid holding midfielder, again nothing special or star worthy about him either. Another 1 who gave Barca some good years. Achieved very little because the team was terrible most of the time. Kluivert. Decent at Barca, another one whose career fizzled out doing pretty much nothing at places like Newcastle and Valencia. Another one who benefitted from Ajax being the shit. No more of a star than Gomez although Ill give you he was probably a better player, I dont think Gomez is that good. But thats not saying much for Kluivert. Had some star billing for a while nothing explosive. Overmars, Zenden. Hopped around different clubs Arsenal Barca for Overmars after Ajax, flopped miserably. Old fashioned winger I liked him. Didnt do much. Same for Zender different clubs. Ooijer was just mediocrish to average.. not much to say. Big, strong thats about it. Van Hooijdonk, never left an impression outside Feyenoord. (I liked him) but again if your a star in that setup woo kudos. Hasselbank actually had a great career but never got it on for the dutch. Again never won anything but pretty good striker for his time. Kinda like Kevin Philips in the EPL. Score lots of goals, teams get nowhere. Van Bronckhorst didnt even start for that 98 team. But yeah he was great. But again nothing star worthy (one of my personal favourites again) but realistically he was an above average left back with a bullet foot. Bergamp Davidz and Seedorf are legends for me yeah, achieved great things with great teams and were always integral to the success of their league sides. So theres your "every player was a star". Maybe you shouldve picked France or Brazil from that rosters. Outside of those two teams none of them were "stacked" with stars. (and most of those french guys went on to be stars post world cup mind you, and alot of them didnt (Duggary et al). I dont like Balotelli much but if your telling me that Pipo Inzaghi was a better "overall" talent for all his greatness then I dont really know what to say. | ||
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Fleuria
England466 Posts
On July 03 2012 01:49 kemoryan wrote: a team that sucks for the most part of the tournaments doesn't win 3 tournaments in a row unless they are the luckiest team in the history. And if that's the case why would you predict them to win next world cup? Makes no sense to me. Didn't mean it like that at all, just saying that they didn't perform up to par with the performance in 2008 in both of the last 2 tournaments, they are still better than the rest of the world even if they don't perform and thus thats the reason why they have the titles as for predicting them to win the world cup, they have the players that can perform brilliantly but they just need a few more younger players to edge out the old guard. | ||
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Ermac
336 Posts
Suddenly Italy is the shit because they played a decent game against an unlucky German side who had a weak game. Suddenly Germany's defense sucks because they received 2 unnecessary goals in their last game. Suddenly Spain played a perfect tournament because they won 4-0 in the finals. Just some fun facts to put things into perspective again: Italy played a rather poor group stage. They had a strong game vs Spain but failed to live up to the same quality against Croatia and Ireland. Versus England they had to resort to penalties because they were unable to score a single goal in 120 minutes despite dominating huge parts of the match. You do not want that. Anything can happen in penalties, even against England. Germany played a very strong group stage. They won all their games against strong opposition with a goal difference of 5-2. Yes, even an admittedly out of shape looking Netherlands is no pushover, while Denmark's strength was shown when they pushed Portugal to their limits. The German team went on to score 4, in letters f-o-u-r, goals against Greece in the quarter finals. Now you can say what you want against Greece, but those guys sure aren't prone to receiving goals. If they lose it's usually 1-0 or 2-1 max. Germany themselves only received one goal which was caused by a mistake up front, not by a poor defense. The other goal Greek side scored that game was from a questionable handball penalty. In beating Greece the Germans set a world record for the longest winning streak in competitive games. All the more reason they had to lose at some point. To make a long story short: You don't achieve all that if your defense is worthless. Spain played a rather mediocre tournament up the finals. They almost lost tt Italy and barely won against Croatia in the group stages. Did they curbstomp Ireland? Yes. An achievement? Hardly. In the quarterfinals the Spaniards simply outclassed France at every corner. A strong showing and well deserved win. In the semi finals however, things were looking a little different when a strong Portuguese side gave Spain loads of trouble. After 120 minutes of a hard fought battle I don't think anyone would have considered it unfair if Portugal had won that match. In the end the game was decided penalties and again: You do not want to take that chance if you can avoid it. Thus any arguments that Spain only played as good as they had to up to that point are not really making sense. After all is said and done, Spain is the well deserved winner of this tournament after a furious final match. However what I wanted to point out with this post is that people tend to put too much weight on the last few or even the last game of a team and lose track of the bigger picture. Looking at said picture it is with good reason that so many people dreamed of a final between Spain and Germany. | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On July 03 2012 06:07 Rebs wrote: Rose tinted glasses all i can say. Im pretty sure i can safely say ive seen those guys play and ive seen these guys play, the game just within the last decade has become harder mechanically, tactically and fitness wise. Its harder to stand out especially with those 2 hammering records out like its nobodies business. I get th feeling you havent seen to many of those guys on the roster you just linked day in day out and are running more on thier names and records. Cant argue with that. Tell you what though. Ill play. Its funny you pointed out that dutch team because that was my favourite team back then and heaviliy influenced Van Gaals Barca, just like all of Van Gaals teams. Which he then proceeds to become unhappy with and fucks up.. anyway... Van Der Sar. Didnt really have much of a billing till he went to United late in his career and the start when he was at Ajax. Got thrown out when Gigi came in at Juve. Wasnt much of a "legend" till his time at United. National steam mainstay only by virtue of no real competition. He aged better than any keeper I can think of though. Haah Reizeiger. Mediocre defender played for Barca for a bit nothing special. Staam. Better than your average central defender round about the Laurent Blancs but not as good. Had a miserable time at United, bobbled around in Italy to the end of his career. Again got a lot of fanfare because Dutch football domestically was solid in the early 90s when he came up. The De Boer brothers were no stars anywhere they were again average plays. I dont even know what would make them stars on any team and again Barcelona with their dutch heavy input had seen quite a fair bit of them. They are respected for their high IQ and great service to their teams. But they never "starred" or were considered superb players. Just solid. Cocu, solid holding midfielder, again nothing special or star worthy about him either. Another 1 who gave Barca some good years. Achieved very little because the team was terrible most of the time. Kluivert. Decent at Barca, another one whose career fizzled out doing pretty much nothing at places like Newcastle and Valencia. Another one who benefitted from Ajax being the shit. No more of a star than Gomez although Ill give you he was probably a better player, I dont think Gomez is that good. But thats not saying much for Kluivert. Had some star billing for a while nothing explosive. Overmars, Zenden. Hopped around different clubs Arsenal Barca for Overmars after Ajax, flopped miserably. Old fashioned winger I liked him. Didnt do much. Same for Zender different clubs. Ooijer was just mediocrish to average.. not much to say. Big, strong thats about it. Van Hooijdonk, never left an impression outside Feyenoord. (I liked him) but again if your a star in that setup woo kudos. Hasselbank actually had a great career but never got it on for the dutch. Again never won anything but pretty good striker for his time. Kinda like Kevin Philips in the EPL. Score lots of goals, teams get nowhere. Van Bronckhorst didnt even start for that 98 team. But yeah he was great. But again nothing star worthy (one of my personal favourites again) but realistically he was an above average left back with a bullet foot. Bergamp Davidz and Seedorf are legends for me yeah, achieved great things with great teams and were always integral to the success of their league sides. So theres your "every player was a star". Maybe you shouldve picked France or Brazil from that rosters. Outside of those two teams none of them were "stacked" with stars. (and most of those french guys went on to be stars post world cup mind you, and alot of them didnt (Duggary et al). I dont like Balotelli much but if your telling me that Pipo Inzaghi was a better "overall" talent for all his greatness then I dont really know what to say. Perfect assessment aside from Stam who was phenomenal for us at United, he just fell out with SAF but it's not at all uncommon for United fans rate Stam above Ferdinand such is the regard we hold him in. Also Frank De Boer was a brilliant centre back. If he were playing today he'd be one of the worlds best (such is the total lack of great centre backs in the current game). Ronald was a jobber though. You can 100% bet this kid wasn't actually an adult in 98 watching those teams. Holland were very poor after the Van Basten/Rijkaard era fizzled out by Euro 96 until Euro 2000 when the Davids/Seedorf/Bergkamp era came of age. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
 Grats Spain, this era totally belongs to you. | ||
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pebble444
Italy2497 Posts
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
I don't particularly care for Spain and wanted Italy to win just for the underdog upset, but in the end Italy was just dominated in the finals and that's that. Italy played a great tournament but in the end Spain took them out. gg. | ||
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Svenny90
21 Posts
On July 02 2012 08:46 carloselcoco wrote: LOL a real team that loses 4-0 in the finals... Italy's defense was made up by 11 year old kids who were just learning how to defend. You know that your defense sucks when Torres scores against you. . Sweet, you must certainly know a lot about football  I will just leave this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catenaccio | ||
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sharkie
Austria18407 Posts
Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain are better than any club except Barcelona and maybe Real. | ||
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