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On January 31 2010 12:05 R1CH wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 07:46 jalstar wrote:
also why are these things not tested beforehand? feels weird to be a guinea pig It was tested as best I could, unfortunately the majority of the TL users already know how to watch streams and which software to use, so requesting them to test doesn't really help expose any problems. When we go live with something like the TSL, we have people trying to load it in all kinds of confusing ways such as their browser, winamp, realplayer, GOM, etc, combined with F5ing causing many reconnects. The server itself can easily handle thousands of connections so it isn't so much a capacity issue as some combination of people connecting, their video player reconnection behaviour, what initial headers are sent, etc causing some random bug. For the more technical among you, the server is coded in perl and makes use of libevent with the Event::Lib bindings. Event::Lib claims it has been tested in production use with MailChannels (a perl based email filter) with thousands of connections, so I thought it would be ok for the TSL. What happened is the program simply quit back to the bash prompt without even a single error or warning, even running with perl -w and with the Event::Lib exception handlers set up. To me this would indicate some kind of underlying problem possibly in Event::Lib or libevent itself rather than our server code, something I haven't been able to reproduce yet despite having thousands of connections and pushing a gigabit of traffic. There's just a limit to how much you can do in a test environment vs what the real world can throw at you.
Is this using pthreads or what? I've never been hugely comfortable with Perl's threading's ability to scale.
--oberon
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Uhm... but it wasn't delayed... right on TL time. 
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On January 31 2010 10:17 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2010 08:12 baller wrote:On January 31 2010 07:46 jalstar wrote:
also why are these things not tested beforehand? feels weird to be a guinea pig yah ur right, clearly it goes smth like dis: at stream time, some guy goes into irc, any1 wanna obs? intrigue is like sure ill obs, then goes and dls obsing software, and then while hes doing that someone makes the video intro while someoen else sings the music, and then they ask w/e players r on iccup at the time 2 play, and ask whatever casters r on msn 2 cast, and this time tasteless and artosis were just hanging out at 5am, what luck. and the player video screens just happen 2 be the right order and maps and players, what luck. then someone is like o shit we need 2 stream dis, and they make stream work, conjure servers out of the atmosphere, and create a stream. then r1ch is like wouldnt it be cool to have an overlay, and while tasteless and artosis talk pregame, r1ch programs the overlay, and gives it to the obs nad he uses it and it works fine. its amazing they can do all that right then without any testing, ur right they shouudl probably test at least some of it hahahahahahaha I don't know what's more funny, this post or the fact that jalstar didn't get it
i couldn't read his lingo
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Don't sweat it; keep up the good work guys.
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thanks for bringing us the tsl 
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Today's cast was also delayed a little bit, I used our new stream server again with additional debugging tools and I'm happy to report that despite it crashing again, I now know the source of the problem (unhandled SIGPIPE, yay!)
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On January 31 2010 05:07 R1CH wrote:
I would like to apologize to all the TSL fans for the issues with the Ro16 stream today. We wanted to provide a way for everyone who had issues with Windows Media Player to be able to view the stream using MS Silverlight media player, which works 100% reliably. Except, Silverlight did not work with our stream software (VLC). I wrote a replacement media server in the time between the qualifiers and the Ro16 and it tested great and seemed to be a perfect replacement, working in VLC, WMP, Silverlight, etc.
Seriously? You thought, "WMP sucks, so I'll just write my own streaming server (in my spare time, in less than a week)?"
/impressed
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I KNEW it was unhandled SIGPIPE. It's ALWAYS unhandled SIGPIPE!
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yeah, that SIGPIPE error happened to me once ... i just used the pre-canned ignore handler SIG_IGN.
You are truly "Da Man" for busting that out in a week, by the way.
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Yeah it's always the little bugs that get you  . I usually do socket programming on Windows where you don't have to worry about signals. I even had the SIG_IGN handler setup in the load balancer script, I just completely forgot about it in the new server, I guess I kind of expected the event library to handle it. Very weird it didn't show up in my testing though since I had many clients connecting and disconnecting rapidly.
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R1CH, you are the man. Thank you for all you do for Team Liquid. 
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Definitely no apologies necessary but the explanation is beautiful. Thanks for all the work you do around here R1CH!
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Glad you solved the mystery! Congrats
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Silly post. Gods don't need to apologize to anyone.
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You shouldn't even apologise, you really made a great job and the Event, is just GREAT and by the way .... every real good, unique and spectacular Event need some delay as well :-)
The disappointing part for now are the players ... some of them seems to not even have prepared for the games which is very sad.
Slump chart at date:
1) Draco -> loosing without even fighting, really painfull to watch. I think he is not just into BW anymore ...
2) Tarson -> noob show, i am sure many random T here on TL would have fought Nony better than him ... i wonder how he got to RO16.
A bravo goes instead to XiaoZi who fought as his best and really tried to go through the robo-player Idra. Only decent serie at date IMHO.
Hope the the next matches will provide more fun.
Anyway ... vote to technical organization: 10 out of 10
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Anyway ... vote to technical organization: 10 out of 10
I know you want to be supportive and everything, but that score can't be true because a 10 means everythinh worked perfectly and we all know it didn't.
Saturday's cast i may describe it as beeing annoying. Because there was 1h start delay, 4-5 seconds sound delay from Tastossis, Tastossis themselves were pretty bad commentators (not at their best quality) and the games were really one sided. I mean really really one sided.
I am just telling what went wrong from a viewers point of view. I know there are explanations, just describing what i think needs to be improved (the players skill obviously is out of your hands ) . We can't all just pretend that everything went super duper ok.
But Sunday everything got much much better. And Day 9 ROCKS! :D
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On February 01 2010 21:33 ceaRshaf wrote:I know you want to be supportive and everything, but that score can't be true because a 10 means everythinh worked perfectly and we all know it didn't. Saturday's cast i may describe it as beeing annoying. Because there was 1h start delay, 4-5 seconds sound delay from Tastossis, Tastossis themselves were pretty bad commentators (not at their best quality) and the games were really one sided. I mean really really one sided. I am just telling what went wrong from a viewers point of view. I know there are explanations, just describing what i think needs to be improved (the players skill obviously is out of your hands ) . We can't all just pretend that everything went super duper ok. But Sunday everything got much much better. And Day 9 ROCKS! :D
TBH you can simply not post since people that make it possible for free, know this in detail average users can't comprehend AND they know people feel upset when shit isn't working as good as they would like it to... and that also only in the beginning.
edit: or just skip part in bold when you post k
I wonder how many people are there that don't know about existence of GOM and VLC... or don't know enough?
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it's fine, it( the delay) actually let me catch the stream!
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Thanks a lot guys.
The games were awesome, and while i must admit that the delay sucked, I think we all understand that these things, the fact that you handled it with such professionalism by giving updates on the chat rooms, forums, and in this post afterward is awesome and beats the hell out of the way other nameless companies handled technical issues in other tournaments as of late *cough*
basically, thank you for providing great stuff, and keep it up!
EDIT:
On February 01 2010 21:33 ceaRshaf wrote:I know you want to be supportive and everything, but that score can't be true because a 10 means everythinh worked perfectly and we all know it didn't. Saturday's cast i may describe it as beeing annoying. Because there was 1h start delay, 4-5 seconds sound delay from Tastossis, Tastossis themselves were pretty bad commentators (not at their best quality) and the games were really one sided. I mean really really one sided. I am just telling what went wrong from a viewers point of view. I know there are explanations, just describing what i think needs to be improved (the players skill obviously is out of your hands ) . We can't all just pretend that everything went super duper ok. But Sunday everything got much much better. And Day 9 ROCKS! :D
I'm sure what he meant was the way they handled the problem. True there were problems, but the mark of good organization is how one handles unforeseen circumstances, which, in this case, they most certainly deserve a 10
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Calgary26003 Posts
On February 01 2010 06:24 R1CH wrote:
Today's cast was also delayed a little bit, I used our new stream server again with additional debugging tools and I'm happy to report that despite it crashing again, I now know the source of the problem (unhandled SIGPIPE, yay!)
WTFFFF?
To: R1CH [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Possible Solution for Stream
Date: 1/1/10 01:38
Hey I'm just wondering if you checked the possibility of an unhandled SIGPIPE? Could be the issue...
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EPT
