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This thread is for discussing recent bans. Don't discuss other topics here. Take it to website feedback if you disagree with a ban or want to raise an issue. Keep it civil.NOTE: For those of you who want to find the actual ABL thread where the bans are posted. Please look in here: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/ |
Klondikebar was just temp banned for 1 week by Myles.
That account was created on 2011-10-05 00:16:24 and had 2177 posts.
Reason: You can't seem to stop making personal attacks when arguing and warning aren't cutting it.
I can not express how long I waited for this to happen. Mostly because I'm not very articulated. But he was rather obnoxious on the LGBT right thread. I believe he has the heart in the right place, but not very good at keeping it civilized.
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On August 03 2013 02:29 JackDragon wrote:Show nested quote +Klondikebar was just temp banned for 1 week by Myles.
That account was created on 2011-10-05 00:16:24 and had 2177 posts.
Reason: You can't seem to stop making personal attacks when arguing and warning aren't cutting it. I can not express how long I waited for this to happen. Mostly because I'm not very articulated. But he was rather obnoxious on the LGBT right thread. I believe he has the heart in the right place, but not very good at keeping it civilized.
You're right about his heart being in the right place, but he refused to back down on any issue at all, including offending people. I understand the concept of social justice on a macro level and that some words describe some behaviors, but that doesn't mean you use the exact same word on a personal level. Especially if the word offends people. At some point you are just doing it because you want to offend people.
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Klondikebar was just temp banned for 1 week by Myles.
That account was created on 2011-10-05 00:16:24 and had 2177 posts.
Reason: You can't seem to stop making personal attacks when arguing and warning aren't cutting it.
his white privilege couldnt save him this time
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On August 03 2013 12:42 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +Klondikebar was just temp banned for 1 week by Myles.
That account was created on 2011-10-05 00:16:24 and had 2177 posts.
Reason: You can't seem to stop making personal attacks when arguing and warning aren't cutting it. his white privilege couldnt save him this time
Link to offending post pls
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On August 03 2013 02:16 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 02:13 Plansix wrote:On August 03 2013 02:09 Klondikebar wrote:On August 03 2013 02:04 Plansix wrote:On August 03 2013 01:55 Klondikebar wrote:On August 03 2013 01:52 Plansix wrote:On August 03 2013 01:44 Klondikebar wrote:On August 03 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:On August 03 2013 01:35 Klondikebar wrote:On August 03 2013 01:32 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I am not perfect, so I likely have. I actively try to avoid acting on those prejudices, but I may slip up. But this does not make me racist. Having a prejudice based on race is the definition of racism dude. I understand that this word offends you. But you have got to listen to us when we tell you there are degrees of racism and whether or not a word hurts your feelings doesn't determine whether or not the definition ought to be changed. We are not trying to shame you. We are not saying you should feel like a terrible person and that you are causing huge problems. Please correct your misunderstanding of the word. But you are shaming me, so why should I put up with it? I am everything you have ask. I'm open minded, will to accept hat I have biases and to change them. Why do you feel the need to offend me? Once again, the word "negro" is factually correct, but I don't use it or even attempt to justify using it. I don't tell people offended by it that they are "misunderstanding the word" and attempt to act like its their problem. The fact that you're offended by the word is on you. To be clear, it's not as though we're calling you racist and ourselves blameless. I have racist prejudices myself that I have to consciously work on so that they do not affect how I treat people. I'm not offended when someone points out that I might be acting in a racist way. I acknowledge that it's entirely possible and I attempt to stop acting in said way. Crying at someone who gives me an opportunity to improve simply because their criticism hurt my feelings is pointless. When a word is very clearly defined and you are offended by it when it is used entirely within its own definition...yeah being offended is your problem. Well if you fell the need to offend people, I guess that's on you. I get the impression you have an ax to grind on this subject and seem to enjoy offending people who admit to being straight. I would point out that your argument was used by another member of this community in regards to the word "faggot" and he said "if you are offended its your problem". "Faggot" is bad for the same reason "negro" is bad and both are completely different than calling an action or belief racist. I don't feel the need to offend you. Shinosai and I both have told you time and time again that you're misunderstanding the word. Why do you keep ignoring that? Correct your misunderstanding of the word Plansix. We're not reinventing the definition of racism, we're not telling you to get a thicker skin. I don't understand why this is so hard for you. What would you prefer we call you? Coming up with another word seems pointless because as long as it's a synonym for "a little bit racist" then it's going to offend you so long as you continue to misunderstand what "racist" means. I fully understand the meaning of the term racism. I fully understand that any unconscious prejudices I may have are racist. I don't object to the meaning of the word. I object to you using to discribe me becuase I find it offensive. The same way a black person would if I used the word negro. Or a rape victim asking someone to not use the word in the context of beating someone at a video game. You ask what what I would prefer to be called, you can just say "you sem to have some unconscious prejudices." and that will suffice. If you refuse to change your ways, thats says more about you than it does me. And other words are important. You can't just throw around terms that cover huge sections of people and expect everyone to accept it. A kid from the small town who has never been to New York City is not the same as a KKK member. If you knwo you are going to end up lumping them together, why would you do that? I don't understand this disconnect. You understand that your prejudices might be racist, but you are offended when I call them racist? And please stop comparing calling a prejudice racist to calling a person a slur. Just stop. It's going to tremendously erode any credibility you have and I'm going to care very little about your feelings. And I'm not expecting everyone to accept the word. I'm expecting people who come into this thread for a discussion about tolerance to accept the word. And, more specifically, I'm expecting you, as someone who is trying to understand, to accept the word as it has been given to you. So you fail to see the point where is becomes a slur, right? Nergo is factually correct, but I would never make the argument you are making to a black person. And why do my feelings not matter to you? I mean, if someone asked not to be called a "jew" who was "jewish", would you insist on calling them that because it is factually correct? Or are the feelings of straight white people just less important and we can't object to being called things we don't like, even if they are true in some way? Fuck off Plansix. One word describes an action or a belief. The other one describes the worth of a person. Seriously, you are just crying at this point. "WHAAA This belief I have fits completely and perfectly within the definition of the word and then people used that word to describe my belief WHAAAAAAA!" It's hard to care about your feelings when you go out of your way to be butthurt and defy all logic in the process. It has nothing to do with you being straight and white, it has everything to do with you being a fucking baby. User was temp banned for this post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19346533
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
On August 03 2013 22:53 Arkless wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 22:50 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 22:50 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:47 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 22:44 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:40 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 22:37 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:30 shinosai wrote:On August 03 2013 22:14 Arkless wrote:
I think there is a big part of this argument missing.
First of all, let's all be realistic here. Being Trans isn't a normal thing, you can try and say "society has all the issues, etc" and "it's societies fault we aren't accepted" but the fact of the matter is. IT ISN'T NORMAL. With that said, do what you want to make yourself happy.
BUT, like I said it isn't normal. Let's get down to some scientific, brass tax here. You can put whatever bow u want to on the package (no pun intended) but scientifically, YOU ARE NOT A REAL WOMAN. You have both chromosomes, you have the bone density of a man. The reaction time of a man, the hands and jaw of a man. An adams apple, ETC. Even after years of taking hormones.
You do not have, ovaries, a uterus, the ability to become pregnant or have your period.Among some other things that come with being born a natural woman. Even when it comes to a 1 night stand, a straight male is subconsciously trying to reproduce. It just so happens to feel good, which is the reward mechanism we are born with to make sure we procreate.So let's not pretend that it's the guys' fault for not wanting to be with a trans woman. That is so far from the truth it's ridiculous. And the few trans woman who say they don't feel the need to disclose to a sexual partner they were once a man. Is pretty fuckin deplorable if you ask me. No, of course you shouldn't have to tell everyone you were trans. But when it comes down to the actual act of having sex, I think I have the RIGHT to know what I am putting my penis into. And you have to tell him, you know by not telling him you were trans you are being dishonest. It is not a real vagina, regardless of what you think. And I should have the right to know. And the arguments based on " He may never know" is so gross, you assume he would never find out. But if he does, he is definitely going to be affected mentally, and not positively. And if you say, " well that's his problem" Well, no it isn't. You lied by omission. You aren't normal, so don't pretend you are.
I'm sure this all sounds harsher than intended. I know I would definitely be pissed if I had unknowingly slept with a trans woman, only to find out later it wasn't an actual woman.
And guess what, I don't hate trans people. So INb4 TRANSPHOBE comments. What makes a real man or a real woman? It can't be chromosomes because some men[1] are born with XX chromosomes and some women[2] are born with XY chromosomes. When was the last time you got your chromosomes checked? It can't be hormones because a trans men will have the same levels as a cis man and a trans woman will have the same levels as a cis woman, if they are on HRT. And hormones control secondary sexual characteristics[3] . It can't be primary sex characteristics because some cis men have internal female organs [4] , breasts[5] , and no penis[6] . Some cis women have internal male organs[7] , no breasts[8] (or they lose them[9] ), or no vagina[10] . Some people think that a metoidioplasty or a phalloplasty for a trans man doesn't result in a "real" penis, or that a vaginoplasty doesn't result in a "real" vagina. What makes a metoidioplasty made penis different from a man with a micropenis[11] (especially a guy like this[12] ?) How is a phalloplasty made penis different from a man with erectile dysfunction[13] ? How is a vaginoplasty made vagina different from a cis woman's vagina? And what makes a post op trans person different from a cis person who's sterile[14] ? p.s. You can still have transphobic attitudes even if you don't hate trans people. Ok well a) I'm not fully up on all the terminology. So, let's just forget that, you guys know what I mean. b) Nice little attack "When was the last time I you got your chromosomes checked" I'm going to assume you are trans and I offended you. I didn't mean it offensively, so get off your horse. c) "p.s. You can still have transphobic attitudes even if you don't hate trans people" Is so dumb. Not wanting to sleep with a trans doesn't mean I am transphobic by any means. I don't want to sleep with a guy, does that make me a homophobe? No Mostly because of point b. I'm not going to bother engaging with you in any debate. You know my points are vailid, so you're trying to find any loophole. Like the few out of the many born with those conditions. Such as internal genitalia. "Not wanting to sleep with a black person doesn't mean I'm racist by any means. I don't want to sleep with an animal, does that make me racist? No" If you don't want to sleep with a trans person because you believe they are less than women or not women then you are transphobic. In the exact same way that if you didn't want to sleep with a black woman because you believe blacks are subhuman you would be racist. You would have the right to that preference in terms of your right to consent to sex but your preference is not immune from judgement. Kwark, you are never worth debating. I remember all your arguments from the "rape, coercion thread" Whatever it was called. According to you, everyone having sex was raping each other. This thread I am sure will be no different. If you guys think Trans woman, sleeping with men. Is a normal thing, then I don't know what to tell you. And imma just leave this thread now because nothing but dead horses will be beat. You come into here holding your ignorance like a badge of pride, your conclusions already drawn and when confronted with internal logical inconsistencies in your beliefs you immediately leave. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. You're a colossal moron. Science isn't ignorance. I'm sorry I offended you. There is nothing scientific about your view. Science is what you ran scared from. Now leave the topic the way you said you would and fuck off. There is plenty, you however posed OPINIONS. No science, you dumb fuck. Now Kwark, you are the worst mod this site has. You should had your mod status taken many a moon ago. Go fuck yourself. Please put the part where you tell me to fuck off, back in please. Fucking coward mod. User was temp banned for this post.
did he really, I mean really think he could get away with calling out a mod like that?
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United States41938 Posts
On August 04 2013 00:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 22:53 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:50 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 22:50 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:47 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 22:44 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:40 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 22:37 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:30 shinosai wrote:On August 03 2013 22:14 Arkless wrote:
I think there is a big part of this argument missing.
First of all, let's all be realistic here. Being Trans isn't a normal thing, you can try and say "society has all the issues, etc" and "it's societies fault we aren't accepted" but the fact of the matter is. IT ISN'T NORMAL. With that said, do what you want to make yourself happy.
BUT, like I said it isn't normal. Let's get down to some scientific, brass tax here. You can put whatever bow u want to on the package (no pun intended) but scientifically, YOU ARE NOT A REAL WOMAN. You have both chromosomes, you have the bone density of a man. The reaction time of a man, the hands and jaw of a man. An adams apple, ETC. Even after years of taking hormones.
You do not have, ovaries, a uterus, the ability to become pregnant or have your period.Among some other things that come with being born a natural woman. Even when it comes to a 1 night stand, a straight male is subconsciously trying to reproduce. It just so happens to feel good, which is the reward mechanism we are born with to make sure we procreate.So let's not pretend that it's the guys' fault for not wanting to be with a trans woman. That is so far from the truth it's ridiculous. And the few trans woman who say they don't feel the need to disclose to a sexual partner they were once a man. Is pretty fuckin deplorable if you ask me. No, of course you shouldn't have to tell everyone you were trans. But when it comes down to the actual act of having sex, I think I have the RIGHT to know what I am putting my penis into. And you have to tell him, you know by not telling him you were trans you are being dishonest. It is not a real vagina, regardless of what you think. And I should have the right to know. And the arguments based on " He may never know" is so gross, you assume he would never find out. But if he does, he is definitely going to be affected mentally, and not positively. And if you say, " well that's his problem" Well, no it isn't. You lied by omission. You aren't normal, so don't pretend you are.
I'm sure this all sounds harsher than intended. I know I would definitely be pissed if I had unknowingly slept with a trans woman, only to find out later it wasn't an actual woman.
And guess what, I don't hate trans people. So INb4 TRANSPHOBE comments. What makes a real man or a real woman? It can't be chromosomes because some men[1] are born with XX chromosomes and some women[2] are born with XY chromosomes. When was the last time you got your chromosomes checked? It can't be hormones because a trans men will have the same levels as a cis man and a trans woman will have the same levels as a cis woman, if they are on HRT. And hormones control secondary sexual characteristics[3] . It can't be primary sex characteristics because some cis men have internal female organs [4] , breasts[5] , and no penis[6] . Some cis women have internal male organs[7] , no breasts[8] (or they lose them[9] ), or no vagina[10] . Some people think that a metoidioplasty or a phalloplasty for a trans man doesn't result in a "real" penis, or that a vaginoplasty doesn't result in a "real" vagina. What makes a metoidioplasty made penis different from a man with a micropenis[11] (especially a guy like this[12] ?) How is a phalloplasty made penis different from a man with erectile dysfunction[13] ? How is a vaginoplasty made vagina different from a cis woman's vagina? And what makes a post op trans person different from a cis person who's sterile[14] ? p.s. You can still have transphobic attitudes even if you don't hate trans people. Ok well a) I'm not fully up on all the terminology. So, let's just forget that, you guys know what I mean. b) Nice little attack "When was the last time I you got your chromosomes checked" I'm going to assume you are trans and I offended you. I didn't mean it offensively, so get off your horse. c) "p.s. You can still have transphobic attitudes even if you don't hate trans people" Is so dumb. Not wanting to sleep with a trans doesn't mean I am transphobic by any means. I don't want to sleep with a guy, does that make me a homophobe? No Mostly because of point b. I'm not going to bother engaging with you in any debate. You know my points are vailid, so you're trying to find any loophole. Like the few out of the many born with those conditions. Such as internal genitalia. "Not wanting to sleep with a black person doesn't mean I'm racist by any means. I don't want to sleep with an animal, does that make me racist? No" If you don't want to sleep with a trans person because you believe they are less than women or not women then you are transphobic. In the exact same way that if you didn't want to sleep with a black woman because you believe blacks are subhuman you would be racist. You would have the right to that preference in terms of your right to consent to sex but your preference is not immune from judgement. Kwark, you are never worth debating. I remember all your arguments from the "rape, coercion thread" Whatever it was called. According to you, everyone having sex was raping each other. This thread I am sure will be no different. If you guys think Trans woman, sleeping with men. Is a normal thing, then I don't know what to tell you. And imma just leave this thread now because nothing but dead horses will be beat. You come into here holding your ignorance like a badge of pride, your conclusions already drawn and when confronted with internal logical inconsistencies in your beliefs you immediately leave. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. You're a colossal moron. Science isn't ignorance. I'm sorry I offended you. There is nothing scientific about your view. Science is what you ran scared from. Now leave the topic the way you said you would and fuck off. There is plenty, you however posed OPINIONS. No science, you dumb fuck. Now Kwark, you are the worst mod this site has. You should had your mod status taken many a moon ago. Go fuck yourself. Please put the part where you tell me to fuck off, back in please. Fucking coward mod. User was temp banned for this post. did he really, I mean really think he could get away with calling out a mod like that?
In the context of the topic it wasn't that much more heated than I was. Although he was being a total moron and does have a long mod history including the word "moron". What got us to that point was him making a bunch of provably wrong and highly offensive claims about trans people, someone went to the trouble of explaining with a dozen links to relevant examples why his standard didn't make any sense and he just went "I don't wanna read that, why you so mad, I'm right because science".
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
It was such a predictable escalation :/
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I'm surprised that thread hasn't resulted in more bans though. It got pretty ugly for a bit.
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On August 04 2013 00:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 00:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 03 2013 22:53 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:50 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 22:50 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:47 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 22:44 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:40 KwarK wrote:On August 03 2013 22:37 Arkless wrote:On August 03 2013 22:30 shinosai wrote:[quote] What makes a real man or a real woman? It can't be chromosomes because some men[1] are born with XX chromosomes and some women[2] are born with XY chromosomes. When was the last time you got your chromosomes checked? It can't be hormones because a trans men will have the same levels as a cis man and a trans woman will have the same levels as a cis woman, if they are on HRT. And hormones control secondary sexual characteristics[3] . It can't be primary sex characteristics because some cis men have internal female organs [4] , breasts[5] , and no penis[6] . Some cis women have internal male organs[7] , no breasts[8] (or they lose them[9] ), or no vagina[10] . Some people think that a metoidioplasty or a phalloplasty for a trans man doesn't result in a "real" penis, or that a vaginoplasty doesn't result in a "real" vagina. What makes a metoidioplasty made penis different from a man with a micropenis[11] (especially a guy like this[12] ?) How is a phalloplasty made penis different from a man with erectile dysfunction[13] ? How is a vaginoplasty made vagina different from a cis woman's vagina? And what makes a post op trans person different from a cis person who's sterile[14] ?[quote] p.s. You can still have transphobic attitudes even if you don't hate trans people. Ok well a) I'm not fully up on all the terminology. So, let's just forget that, you guys know what I mean. b) Nice little attack "When was the last time I you got your chromosomes checked" I'm going to assume you are trans and I offended you. I didn't mean it offensively, so get off your horse. c) "p.s. You can still have transphobic attitudes even if you don't hate trans people" Is so dumb. Not wanting to sleep with a trans doesn't mean I am transphobic by any means. I don't want to sleep with a guy, does that make me a homophobe? No Mostly because of point b. I'm not going to bother engaging with you in any debate. You know my points are vailid, so you're trying to find any loophole. Like the few out of the many born with those conditions. Such as internal genitalia. "Not wanting to sleep with a black person doesn't mean I'm racist by any means. I don't want to sleep with an animal, does that make me racist? No" If you don't want to sleep with a trans person because you believe they are less than women or not women then you are transphobic. In the exact same way that if you didn't want to sleep with a black woman because you believe blacks are subhuman you would be racist. You would have the right to that preference in terms of your right to consent to sex but your preference is not immune from judgement. Kwark, you are never worth debating. I remember all your arguments from the "rape, coercion thread" Whatever it was called. According to you, everyone having sex was raping each other. This thread I am sure will be no different. If you guys think Trans woman, sleeping with men. Is a normal thing, then I don't know what to tell you. And imma just leave this thread now because nothing but dead horses will be beat. You come into here holding your ignorance like a badge of pride, your conclusions already drawn and when confronted with internal logical inconsistencies in your beliefs you immediately leave. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. You're a colossal moron. Science isn't ignorance. I'm sorry I offended you. There is nothing scientific about your view. Science is what you ran scared from. Now leave the topic the way you said you would and fuck off. There is plenty, you however posed OPINIONS. No science, you dumb fuck. Now Kwark, you are the worst mod this site has. You should had your mod status taken many a moon ago. Go fuck yourself. Please put the part where you tell me to fuck off, back in please. Fucking coward mod. User was temp banned for this post. did he really, I mean really think he could get away with calling out a mod like that? In the context of the topic it wasn't that much more heated than I was. Although he was being a total moron and does have a long mod history including the word "moron". What got us to that point was him making a bunch of provably wrong and highly offensive claims about trans people, someone went to the trouble of explaining with a dozen links to relevant examples why his standard didn't make any sense and he just went "I don't wanna read that, why you so mad, I'm right because science".
On August 03 2013 23:09 KwarK wrote:For those who were here yesterday, Arkless just sent me this. Show nested quote +I feel like you are just mad, because i pointed out sleeping with people and lying by omission is wrong. And it is what you are probably doing. wow
From a more relaxed POV the guy is hilarious, did he only get a 2-week ban because an admin was part of the discussion and it may have seemed subjective to perm him due to that, even though he is a guy with an extensive modhistory?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
It wasn't permable, at least as far as I've noticed from mod actions on this site.
Usually emotional outbursts are given leeway compared to, say, premeditated dickishness
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On August 04 2013 04:15 marvellosity wrote:
It wasn't permable, at least as far as I've noticed from mod actions on this site.
Usually emotional outbursts are given leeway compared to, say, premeditated dickishness
He does have a history of that apparently though and it's more than just a short burst if you pm a mod that hadn't even banned you afterwards (kadaver did) to insult him for banning you.
EDIT:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423879
This thead is hilarious
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On August 04 2013 04:38 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2013 04:15 marvellosity wrote:
It wasn't permable, at least as far as I've noticed from mod actions on this site.
Usually emotional outbursts are given leeway compared to, say, premeditated dickishness He does have a history of that apparently though and it's more than just a short burst if you pm a mod that hadn't even banned you afterwards (kadaver did) to insult him for banning you. EDIT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423879This thead is hilarious
I love how Kadaver didn't know how to end it 
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United States33077 Posts
KBB literally has no sense of humor
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On August 04 2013 09:24 Waxangel wrote:
KBB literally has no sense of humor
All that germanness
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Germany25649 Posts
I am actually the hero this site needs...
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United States33077 Posts
KBB's lack of emotions or a sense of humor is endearing in a way
it helps me understand why opterown is friends with a robot
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Germany25649 Posts
My humor is just better than yours wax.
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EPT
