EPTMost bans from TL - Page 15
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p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
You could just send someone a PM that this is not appropiate and remove it. I don't see your argument from a censorship point of view. That already happens massively because people are afraid to post what they actually think for fear of being banned. Or of course they actually are already banned and so can't post. | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
On May 26 2011 06:19 Klive5ive wrote: Blizzard don't ban people from their forums unless it's a serious trolling offence. They certainly wouldn't ban someone just for disagreeing with them or just because they felt insulted by the comments, because it reflects back badly on them. And that's exactly why the Blizzard forums are a giant pile of shit, with one in about five thousand threads being somewhat relevant. That's why we prefer tl.net. If you prefer the blizzard forums though, that's absolutely fine, but that's not a reason for Teamliquid to copy their approach. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On May 26 2011 06:19 Klive5ive wrote: I agree with this sentiment. TL is fantastic because the work behind the scenes is fantastic. The TSL is a brilliant example of this. Unrivaled professionalism and excellence produced arguably the best tournament to date. And certainly the best foreigner tournament. But then at the same time there was what in business would be described as a number of PR disasters. From the statements made against EG to the IdrA banning. Whether you were in the right or not is irrelevant; the fact is you upset and alienated part of the community. If you take the community as a whole and continually cut pieces off you're reducing your appeal. Blizzard don't ban people from their forums unless it's a serious trolling offence. They certainly wouldn't ban someone just for disagreeing with them or just because they felt insulted by the comments, because it reflects back badly on them. As TL evolves I don't see why the moderation can't evolve too. It's much better to close a thread, or delete a post than it is to ban someone. Because whether they deserved it or not that person is most likely to be pissed off. There have been some good evolutions like the messages at the top of threads telling people what is appropriate but I think it could be improved further for the benefit of all. I disagree. To me the sanctity of the site, and the quality of posting in general is more important than PR (and when I think about it, I don't see how banning bad posts equals bad PR), even though I ofcourse as a common user of the site is somewhat biased, as I care more about making the current member pool more sofisticated rather than increasing it. I also think that keeping general high standards throughout the site is the best way of growing the site, rather than making it a mere copy of the battle.net forums. The only difference between the two forums is that the posters here are forced to think an extra time before they post. You can still flame the shit out of someone, as long as you do it intelligently. If people are leaving the starcraft community because Idra got temp banned, I really don't think they were going to stay for long regardless. I also don't see how a person being angry is a valid reason not to ban him/her. The site's not made for venting bad temper. That's my thoughts atleast. On May 26 2011 06:31 Klive5ive wrote: Well things like writing FIRST!, troll picture posts etc... You could just send someone a PM that this is not appropiate and remove it. I don't see your argument from a censorship point of view. That already happens massively because people are afraid to post what they actually think for fear of being banned. Or of course they actually are already banned and so can't post. Well there's the warning, right? I've gotten warned twice, but never banned. Also there's the 10 TL rules that you're supposed to read before you start posting. You're proposing something that's already implemented. And honestly a temp ban isn't the end of the world. I'm not really sure, but isn't the first ban for like two days? Is this really that bad for the community? It might be a shock for a few newcomers but I honestly think it's a wakeup call for people with bad habits on the internetz ^^ | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On May 26 2011 06:48 Euronyme wrote: I disagree. To me the sanctity of the site, and the quality of posting in general is more important than PR (and when I think about it, I don't see how banning bad posts equals bad PR), even though I ofcourse as a common user of the site is somewhat biased, as I care more about making the current member pool more sofisticated rather than increasing it. Is the current approach reaching this goal though? Someone who posts 100 one liners that are nice but contribute nothing doesn't get banned. Someone who says something controversial (and possibly interesting) does. At the end of the day TL is still a great site. I just disagree with this one aspect. Well there's the warning, right? I've gotten warned twice, but never banned. Also there's the 10 TL rules that you're supposed to read before you start posting. You're proposing something that's already implemented. But the post stays when it was the bad post that was wrong in the first place. Not necessarily the person who just didn't read the rules. And some people have been banned for that; if that person then goes away it's a loss is it not? | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On May 26 2011 06:55 Klive5ive wrote: Is the current approach reaching this goal though? Someone who posts 100 one liners that are nice but contribute nothing doesn't get banned. Someone who says something controversial (and possibly interesting) does. At the end of the day TL is still a great site. I just disagree with this one aspect. It's kind of funny, because your post right now is controversial and possibly interesting but not banned. A little contradictive? | ||
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Rayeth
United States883 Posts
That forum had become the de facto raiding strategy forums for the whole game (or at least it was when I stopped playing). They discuss the same things as the Blizzard forums, but due to relentless moderation the board is not filled with shitty posts and whiners. Additionally due to the layout of the boards, creating a new thread is nearly impossible and it makes finding the new information difficult (other than by searching, which coincidentally seems to be a problem for lots of new folks here at TL too). Is either approach better than the other? It's not my place to say, but I certainly think that either is better than the shitfest that the Blizzard boards are. I think pretty much all good approaches to good moderation can be summed up as: If you can't be bothered to string together some coherent sentences about X, don't bother posting X. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
Still, it's nice to have a forum that isn't overrun with trolls and shit posters. But I think some of the TL Mods really have power trip issues. My friend also had his humorous post locked and deleted from both the SC2 General forums and Blog forums (seriously? Deleted from blogs?) because that specific moderator "failed to find the humour in it" although it was popular with those who saw it, gaining a page of "this is the best thread I've seen a while" and "ROFL" before it got closed. | ||
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nemo14
United States425 Posts
"Incontrol hwaiting!!!! :D" and variations thereon. | ||
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p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
On May 26 2011 07:47 Curu wrote: I got banned for arguing that Terran Bio > Terran Mech for playing TvP and got banned because that was apparently "balance whine" (I'm whining that one Terran unit composition is overpowered against...another Terran unit composition?). I also contacted the mod who banned me stating clarification and a ban appeal, but he just flat out ignored me. Still, it's nice to have a forum that isn't overrun with trolls and shit posters. But I think some of the TL Mods really have power trip issues. My friend also had his humorous post locked and deleted from both the SC2 General forums and Blog forums (seriously? Deleted from blogs?) because that specific moderator "failed to find the humour in it" although it was popular with those who saw it, gaining a page of "this is the best thread I've seen a while" and "ROFL" before it got closed. You fail to mention the context where you made both of your offending posts. You got banned for these posts in LR threads and will continue to be banned if you bring this stuff up in LR threads. It quite simply isn't the place. Unless your friends thread included truly offensive or pornographic content it wasn't deleted, it was closed. Gaining the approval of a few users does not mean it meets quality standards. Edit: Yes, even for blogs there are standards. Which leads me to believe if his thread was closed from blogs then it really was the worst type of OP. | ||
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Deekin[
Serbia1713 Posts
On May 25 2011 05:00 DeepBlu2 wrote: So, picture yourself as a Blizzard employee. You've played BW and had to wait months and months to find out if a patch was going to come out. Fast forward 6 years later, Starcraft 2 is release, Fuck yeah(The year is not Pre 2000). You are told you will answering people's complaints and reports in customer service. You receive an email: From: Deekintheserbiansailer@gmail.com Forcefields are so broken, it's ridiculous, and blizzard won't fix them. Zerg is up, qqqqqqqq, etc.etc. You, the Blizzard employee, will press "filed" and will move on to file the next 3000 qq emails. Likewise, posting the same thing on teamliquid will do two things: 1. Cause 50% people to qq more 2. Cause 50% people to tell people to stop qqing. (3. Get banned) Now a mathematical problem: (x^4+6x^3+5x^2-7x)+15 / (x+3) Now, if you FOIL it, you recieve 2x² + 7x − 15 = (2x − 3)(x + 5) Which is added to: CH_4 + 2O_2 \\; CO_2 + 2H_2O + heat CH_2S + 6F_2 \\; CF_4 + 2HF + SF_6 + heat Times the vertex of qq and you get flamewar. So, what does this teach you? You must: a. Not qq b. Not be like me and explain 1 sentence with 12. The more Productive way of discussion: So, let's say you are a Non-hired Blizzard employee that is pretending to be hired. You are about to recieve an email again about forcfields, however, the person quickly alt+f4s and thinks to themselves, "Hmm..What makes forcefields a necessity to the protoss army?" "Ahh! That's it. I need them to protect my gateway army." Conclusion. And by the way, Dosen't Idra have most bans? or there was this guy who had 20k posts and was banned last week..He had like 30 warnings/ban EDIT: Charliemurphy is his name. I didnt understand this, but I will follow it in the future. | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22253 Posts
On May 26 2011 05:40 Mobius wrote: too bad tl.nets popularity has nothing to do with the moderators... tl.net has all the news/events/progamer data etc which is why people visit Ugh, this statement right here demonstrates a short-sighted view from new posters. Why was TL.net still the most popular website, long before streaming, before the TLPD, before liquipedia, before the constant events? Why did the most talented writers always end up here? Why did top players post here? TL.net has always been about quality in everything we do, from early on when there was nothing other than news reports and forum moderation as the main draws. The "quality culture" is where a lot of your current big names and talents sprouted up from and were drawn in by (graphic designers, coders, writers, etc. etc.) to bring the stuff you have today. Can you honestly tell me another site could pop up (because believe me, they've tried) having similar features and do just as well? I'm definitely not arrogant enough to think this is where all of TL's popularity came from with the current userbase directly, but indirectly without the strong sense of moderation as well as great direction and vision from the admin side, yes, I can make a strong prediction that TL probably wouldn't even exist in the same capacity, much less have all the resources you've come to know and love. I don't get where you and others can come off being so dismissive when you're new here yourself and don't even know the history of the site. | ||
zatic
Zurich15325 Posts
On May 26 2011 06:55 Klive5ive wrote: Is the current approach reaching this goal though? Someone who posts 100 one liners that are nice but contribute nothing doesn't get banned. Someone who says something controversial (and possibly interesting) does. Do you have examples for this? Because it is TL policy that if you continuously post nothing but one liners you get warned and eventually banned, but we don't ban for opinion. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On May 26 2011 14:28 zatic wrote: Do you have examples for this? Bpecause it is TL policy that if you continuously post nothing but one liners you get warned and eventually banned, but we don't ban for opinion. Well my brother was banned for arguing in a religious thread a long time ago. He was outnumbered about 4 to 1 (he's religious) and got a little bit heated. It took me a few years to convince him to make another account. But now he's an excellent poster. If it wasn't for the fact I've been on TL for years he would have left pissed off and never come back. Now as an example of a one-liner poster. I just picked this guy at random, please don't ban him or I'll feel bad xD "realstarcrafter" 69 posts all one liners. This guy could be a great poster in the future but at the moment he's mostly flooding threads. That's what the pros complain about is the fact that they get drowned in low quality posts. You could maybe even consider a minimum word limit in some threads or something like that. The elitist jerks model although more harsh does at least achieve the goal of making the forum high quality. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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KwarK
United States42596 Posts
On May 26 2011 05:40 Mobius wrote: too bad tl.nets popularity has nothing to do with the moderators... tl.net has all the news/events/progamer data etc which is why people visit i've talked to really good players that can actually go on west and progamers will message them for games but wont post on tl.net because the mods ban too much. mods on tl.net ban based on the quality of your post, doesnt matter if you've flamed anyone or not.. then when you're banned you can see their history of posts which are 95% one-liners. People contributed here because the site isn't a giant heap of shit filled with trash. Nobody wants to put any effort into anything if it's going to get swamped with retarded responses and drowned out by a hundred stupid topics. The moderation sets the standard of quality required for people on these forums and the members rose to the challenge. This site didn't just happen one day, it wasn't built from the top down, people who were passionate about broodwar shared that passion because they wanted other people to enjoy it. They wanted to contribute and tl wanted their contributions. Once the ball got rolling people like myself found the site and enjoyed reading it. The content was awesome and I wanted to be a part of that. I volunteered my time in the strategy forum and my contributions got the recognition they deserved. I was eventually offered a position writing and found myself two years later writing the OSL reports before being made a banling. tl.net isn't a separate company providing a service for you. This is a community site. From the moment you make an account here you are a part of tl.net, not a customer. It isn't that tl has all the news/events/progamer data, it is that people, no different from you, want to contribute their time and knowledge within this community. And that comes back to moderation. | ||
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
On May 26 2011 02:27 EvilTeletubby wrote: Seriously? You're trying to justify yourself on that one? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223147&user=137999 You were ragging on Thorzain the entire time, long before the matches even started. It was completely uncalled for and not even close to what casters will say. You weren't banned for that single comment alone, but all of them together in that entire thread. On top of that, you've been warned/banned previously for shitting up LR threads in similar fashion. It seems you weren't learning from previous mistakes. To be 100% honest with you, you're lucky you haven't been permed yet with your warning history. Just being completely honest with you. I don't think I made myself clear on what I thought was wrong/didn't understand. The thing I don't understand is why it's completely ok to say "Thorzain y u so good, sick push", but it's not ok to say "wasn't impressed by thorzain at all, I hate all-ins"... so on and so forth. Did I make several comments about how I thought nani was outplaying thorzain and thorzain was out of his league? Absolutely, the evidence is undeniable. Did I honestly believe that? Yes, I did. Doesn't matter if I was right or not (which I wasn't, for the record). The LR thread is fiiiiiiilled with comments about how good players are playing. 10$ says that if all my comments were about how good thorzain was, I wouldn't have gotten even warned. I don't understand the double standard, that's all. And this doesn't explain the ban of someone I know, who I'm pretty sure posted once in that thread at the end, explained why he thought nani should've won, and got instant banned lol On May 16 2011 06:21 Mementoss wrote: Alot of mistakes during the final cause it to be close and thus entertaining, otherwise a Naniwa win was pretty obvious. Thorzain totally outclassed game 7, Naniwa under a lot of pressure got greedy and decided to kill his chances at the extra $8000. Up approximately 40 food and in worker count shoulda kept the light contained, grabbed his third with double forge twilight council and got charge/upgrades. And being the overall better player took it to late game and manhandle Thorzain like he did in the Shakuras game with a tech switch into mass gateway with storm. Oh well, pressure was the biggest factor of this loss, hes still the better player and will show it with future results as Thorzain will fade into mediocrity. User was temp banned for this post. Was he right? Who knows. Do you agree with his opinion? Who knows again lol But it's his opinion. I don't understand how that deserves a ban. And honestly, it makes it very hard to accept that a mod seriously thought about your ban instead of just being trigger happy when the ban message includes snarky remarks like "enjoy your week in disney land" and etc... I'm not saying it's wrong to run the forum this way. I'm just looking for clarification. Maybe I just misunderstand entirely the point of game threads, as I always thought they were for commenting on the game and posting your opinions etc... in there. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On May 26 2011 23:34 ffadicted wrote: I don't think I made myself clear on what I thought was wrong/didn't understand. The thing I don't understand is why it's completely ok to say "Thorzain y u so good, sick push", but it's not ok to say "wasn't impressed by thorzain at all, I hate all-ins"... so on and so forth. Did I make several comments about how I thought nani was outplaying thorzain and thorzain was out of his league? Absolutely, the evidence is undeniable. Did I honestly believe that? Yes, I did. Doesn't matter if I was right or not (which I wasn't, for the record). The LR thread is fiiiiiiilled with comments about how good players are playing. 10$ says that if all my comments were about how good thorzain was, I wouldn't have gotten even warned. I don't understand the double standard, that's all. And this doesn't explain the ban of someone I know, who I'm pretty sure posted once in that thread at the end, explained why he thought nani should've won, and got instant banned lol Was he right? Who knows. Do you agree with his opinion? Who knows again lol But it's his opinion. I don't understand how that deserves a ban. And honestly, it makes it very hard to accept that a mod seriously thought about your ban instead of just being trigger happy when the ban message includes snarky remarks like "enjoy your week in disney land" and etc... I'm not saying it's wrong to run the forum this way. I'm just looking for clarification. Maybe I just misunderstand entirely the point of game threads, as I always thought they were for commenting on the game and posting your opinions etc... in there. Im not a mod, but I believe the problem is the last line. Everything else is fine, but there is no need to throw that barb in at the end because the player you rooted for lost. And LR threads arent for posting opinion. They are for reporting what is happening to those who are unable to watch the game. | ||
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
On May 26 2011 23:46 Two_DoWn wrote: Im not a mod, but I believe the problem is the last line. Everything else is fine, but there is no need to throw that barb in at the end because the player you rooted for lost. And LR threads arent for posting opinion. They are for reporting what is happening to those who are unable to watch the game. I know that that's part of LR's, but I don't think/didn't think that's the only thing allowed? Otherwise a lot of people are doing it wrong. I spend so much time in those threads, mainly because coming from a sports background I'm used to only watching games around friends and talking about it constantly. I can't watch games on my own, and since no one I know really watches starcraft, I'm left with the game threads to discuss with people. Maybe this is the root of all my problems, treating the LR thread as a bunch of friends at a bar that I can talk about the game with lol | ||
Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
On May 26 2011 10:21 nemo14 wrote: My problem with these forums is that whenever I write something that could even be remotely construed as me sticking my neck out, I don't even bother posting it. I have better things to do than get flamed by some self-righteous moron in the general forums or get banned for not having the required number of example replays with each post in the strategy forum. Arguing on the internet over questions that have no answer or researching a thesis on SC2 strategy are not my idea of a fun way to spend an afternoon. Therefore, I post ten times as often on the Battle.net forums as I do here, because even if it's an intellectual sewer I'd rather sit in that mire than be mired in indecision about whether my post will "contribute" to a thread that is 90% "Incontrol hwaiting!!!! :D" and variations thereon. Then everyone's winning. You are getting value from the high-quality posts here, and you have been "trained" not to post shitty comments that will get your flamed or throw-away posts like your example. Everything you wrote in your post is a positive. | ||
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