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DoubleAce
United States108 Posts
Here's the gloves im talking about http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C4Y5QOK/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00C4Y5QOK&linkCode=as2 Also I know steelseries had made a similar gaming gloves are they any good? Thanks TL! | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
Gaming gloves... it just sounds like a scam. Do they actually help? I would also be really interested in hearing opinions and especially as to how they work; | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
Feet on the ground, elbows above desk, mouse 1:1 (6/11 in windows, no enhanced pointer precision - mouse sens disabled in games) divide the width of your screen's resolution by 1.5 (for 1920x1080 for example - 1920/1.5 = 1280) use that (1280) as an absolute max DPI, don't pivot with your wrist etc | ||
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DoubleAce
United States108 Posts
On September 23 2013 01:02 Incognoto wrote: I think picking up sword fighting might offer better protection than those gloves but I'm going to be perfectly frank here, I have no idea. Gaming gloves... it just sounds like a scam. Do they actually help? I would also be really interested in hearing opinions and especially as to how they work; I agree but the only reason I think it works is because, you see many athletes like basketball players wearing wristbands that helps, but I always thought of it as a distraction rather than comfort. | ||
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chuky500
France473 Posts
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
Adopt ergonomic practices, lower DPI (basically good advice from Cyro), and STOP PLAYING GAMES until you can do so again without pain. Back pains would be a prolonged period bad posture. Bad posture is basically the inevitable result of either laziness (not caring), weak abdominal muscles (it's actually kind of difficult to keep good posture if you have a mushy middle), or both. Pay attention to your posture & do more sit-ups (ugh) if you want to fix your posture. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On September 23 2013 05:42 Cel.erity wrote: If you want gloves to prevent RSI, you need to get specialty gloves with braces around the wrist to keep your hand straight the entire time. They do work, but they also make it very difficult to move the mouse adeptly. I used one for awhile though. I'd say skip gloves entirely, but this is what you'd need if you really wanted gloves. There's 4 helpful things that can be done.(actually I guess that's 5 since I somehow mixed two together in the first paragraph) The first step is to drastically slow or stop playing altogether for at least 2 weeks (probably a bit longer). Once the arm/hand has healed/rested (as well as before then if still using the computer), posture is the key thing to remedy. You want to position the mouse and keyboard as directly in front of you as possible, and have both around or below elbow height (keyboard ideally as low as possible, although it's difficult to do, especially without a kneeling chair) Adjusting chair (tilt forward, back forward, height: to line vision up properly with monitor) can help too, including getting a different sitting surface such as a standing chair(?), kneeling chair, or even exercise ball. Personally, I use a cheap kneeling chair; it's not the greatest for long use, but good for specific moments of typing or gaming (otherwise one can shift around to other less-proper positions). Getting a wrist pad and/or different mouse may help substantially as well. Look for tilted/asymmetrical mice (at least if you're right-handed) which will fit your hand position comfortably so that your hand can be relaxed and still responsive. A pretty good example would probably be something like the Steelseries Ikari (at least for those who hold the mouse with a "palm grip"— in my opinion the only way, but that's just me being ignorant/arrogant). I personally have doubts that mouse sensitivity is a major/significant issue for CTS/RSI, at least compared to everything else. Lastly and most certainly not least, exercise. Occasional stretches and squeezes really help the hand work out muscles have have been rather stagnant while on the computer. This point could very possibly work alone once the hand is healed if done regularly enough. Scrunchy balls (latex eggs/balls with microbeads or sand or rice inside, can make them yourself if necessary with a balloon or something), gyroscopic resistance, grip trainers, or just waving around heavy objects (est. 2-5kg) can all work rather well, and each target slightly different areas. Lastly there's hand stretches such as those that Day9 has shown: | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
Getting a wrist pad and/or different mouse may help substantially as well. Look for tilted/asymmetrical mice (at least if you're right-handed) which will fit your hand position comfortably so that your hand can be relaxed and still responsive. A pretty good example would probably be something like the Steelseries Ikari (at least for those who hold the mouse with a "palm grip"— in my opinion the only way, but that's just me being ignorant/arrogant). I personally have doubts that mouse sensitivity is a major/significant issue for CTS/RSI, at least compared to everything else. Wrist pad is a big no IMO (that implies putting your wrist down on it.. and locking it in place, so using too high sens and pivoting from it), and palm grip is more reliant on the wrist than some other stuff and maybe not ideal for high level gaming I would say though mouse sensitivity is the BIGGEST factor by far in any kind of wrist discomfort or pain, as long as you got basic settings and posture that are not horribly, horribly wrong | ||
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FLORIDACOMPACT
Germany108 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
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Gendo
United Kingdom216 Posts
I also have hand pain but it's only because after a few games i assume a wrong posture with both mouse and keyboard. | ||
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phar
United States1080 Posts
On September 23 2013 01:02 Incognoto wrote: I think picking up sword fighting might offer better protection than those gloves but I'm going to be perfectly frank here, I have no idea. Gaming gloves... it just sounds like a scam. Do they actually help? I would also be really interested in hearing opinions and especially as to how they work; To be honest, "picking up swordfighting" (or replace with "any activity that involves some amount of wrist strength training") might be a good thing, not a bad thing. I had way less wrist troubles when I was doing competitive fencing. Maybe one of those gyro balls + more stretching + more breaks. | ||
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Gendo
United Kingdom216 Posts
On September 24 2013 02:35 phar wrote: To be honest, "picking up swordfighting" (or replace with "any activity that involves some amount of wrist strength training") might be a good thing, not a bad thing. I had way less wrist troubles when I was doing competitive fencing. Maybe one of those gyro balls + more stretching + more breaks. lol i do Fencing too, kinda expensive just to strengthen the wrist and would still be susceptible to bad posture and have hand pain like myself (after few hours thought). | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
@cyro i think that i did that (subconsciously) so that i could pivot my wrist but in a way that it wasn't both pivoting and set on the desktop (adding light pressure to the wrist). i wanted my wrist to not be set on top of anything that said this is very limited experience on my part, might have played a couple weeks like this | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
so by making sure that the edge of your hand is sitting on the very edge of the desktop, we make sure our wrist isn't getting that slight pressure that it gets by sitting on the desktop get what i mean or? | ||
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Raziers
56 Posts
.... i mean...they even spell the name in leetspeak, and nowhere does it actually say what the gloves does. they look kinda nice, but im gonna say no. now for the featues: Stress Free Comfort.....great i hate stressed gloves. Eye Catching Style....awww yeahh, i walk into the party like whatsup have you seen my gloves. Breathable and Moisture Wicking.....mmmmmmh moist, Thumb Grip......i can grip my Thump with these..yayyy, kept failing without gloves. Multi-purpose....Yayyy now i can both game and fap without having to remove a glove | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
well if you put your hand far into the desk (away from the edge), your wrist is basically sitting on the desk correct? I can't drag my wrist left and right while it's in physical contact with the desk, that would create friction and hurt. If i don't twist/pivot with it, i can't actually move my mouse, so i'm stumped as to how you would actually move the mouse without messing up wrist if your wrist is touching the desk haha | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On September 24 2013 05:10 Cyro wrote: I can't drag my wrist left and right while it's in physical contact with the desk, that would create friction and hurt. If i don't twist/pivot with it, i can't actually move my mouse, so i'm stumped as to how you would actually move the mouse without messing up wrist if your wrist is touching the desk haha that's probably why my wrist hurt then! ^^ | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On September 24 2013 05:10 Cyro wrote: I can't drag my wrist left and right while it's in physical contact with the desk, that would create friction and hurt. If i don't twist/pivot with it, i can't actually move my mouse, so i'm stumped as to how you would actually move the mouse without messing up wrist if your wrist is touching the desk haha Cyro, i have a weird question and kind of offtopic for you. I read what you said but i can't really get the position you speak about.. Could you put a photo or image of what your are talking about ? (like position on wrists). Because i stopped playing sc2 because of wrist pain... played BW a lot and never had problems, but maybe i'm not well positioned. Was my question understandable ?  | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
On September 24 2013 05:10 Cyro wrote: I can't drag my wrist left and right while it's in physical contact with the desk, that would create friction and hurt. If i don't twist/pivot with it, i can't actually move my mouse, so i'm stumped as to how you would actually move the mouse without messing up wrist if your wrist is touching the desk haha My trick: Long sleeves. (NOTE: My wrist doesn't touch the desk, but my forearm does) I never play SC2, or any games that use a mouse unless I'm wearing long sleeves, because my glass desk has really high friction against my skin. Still, Cyro's point about mouse settings and proper posture are spot on. Even if the gloves are only 20 bucks they still won't help shit if your settings are wrong and your posture is bad. I'd say they're not worth getting and are no more than a novelty item. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On September 26 2013 01:36 Cyro wrote: I'll upload a few pics or a quick video in a bit Really ? That is really really awesome. Thank you. | ||
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JIJI_
United States123 Posts
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Holy_AT
Austria978 Posts
You need education on lotion ! | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BcyWRa0.jpg) - wrist pivot vs ..slide - Wrist and forearm near the desk, but not pressing down on it | ||
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Mr. Nefarious
United States515 Posts
He was absolutely adamant that if your elbows were above the desk that your wrists would be in a constant state of strain and that the advice I'd received in this thread was not only wrong, but seriously detrimental to my condition and wrist health. Since then I've lowered my chair height so that it is lower than the table, making sure my wrist is relaxed and at a natural angle rather than being above the plane of movement of my hand. It has helped tremendously. He was also extremely skeptical about Cyros ideas about mouse DPI, his opinion was simply that having a high sensitivity could cause additional strain, however that is extremely case specific and that by forcing people to use a lower sensitivity you could easily exacerbate elbow problems as well as cause tension throughout the entire arm for longer periods by forcing the subject to use more movements and muscles for the same effect. In his opinion higher DPI is a non-issue regarding carpel tunnel as long as the subject is not creating a high level of tension in their hand during play. He agreed that taking breaks and stretching are important. I don't post to be a debbie downer but to warn other TLers that some of the advice offered in this thread might actually be harmful to yourself and has either been directly contradicted by an actual professional or is at best offered by someone with very limited medical knowledge and that it should absolutely not be used without consulting an actual professional. Specifically, I took Cyros advice about chair/elbow height and it was actually completely wrong and dangerous according to someone who is actually a doctor, operates on and works with carpel tunnel syndrome in a professional capacity. Apologies to anyone I've offended (I'm sorry Cyro I know you're trying to do a good thing and you did get a lot of things right), however I felt the need to warn others that there is no replacement for a personal doctor you can assess your specific condition and to take any advice in this thread INCLUDING MY OWN and talk to their doctor before using any of it. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
He was absolutely adamant that if your elbows were above the desk that your wrists would be in a constant state of strain It's pretty well accepted that your wrist should be either slightly above, or level with the mouse, to sit down on it naturally, not below it and angled so that you have to reach down to the mouse, that's like ergonomics 101 In his opinion higher DPI is a non-issue regarding carpel tunnel as long as the subject is not creating a high level of tension in their hand during play The idea is that if you're trying to play to a higher degree of speed and accuracy, you need to create more tension in your wrist at a higher DPI, especially as they tend to focus very heavily on small wrist movements. Moving towards a medium sensitivity (say 1000dpi) removes much of the focus on the wrist, and you cross the screen in under 2 inches of movement, it's not like a "low sens" All of my opinions were formed from pretty extensive research and discussion/debate with a lot of people over some years, in the general area of gaming (particularly FPS engines and osu, though they demand higher accuracy and FPS plays differently, it's much more appropriate to use waaay lower sens in FPS) and a lot of what i said was more echoing what people agreed upon, not my personal opinion (i try to avoid that now in a lot of discussions) so i don't think it's possible to be wrong on the level that you suggest. Advice for a gaming focus is very different for advice targeting say, an office worker Maybe some stuff is also miscommunicated - by above the desk, i meant at a greater height level, not physically on top of the desk in front of you would like to discuss, so get back to me, ty | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On September 26 2013 03:46 Cyro wrote: Here you go - wrist pivot vs ..slide www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DWpwjECwpU - Wrist and forearm near the desk, but not pressing down on it Thank you. (i see we are using the same mouse). i have the wrist on the edge of the table. Is this bad ? Because i don't know what pressing down on it means  Mouvements seams to be what i do. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On September 27 2013 01:09 Cyro wrote: I meant like - moving side-to-side on screen with the second type of movement, where wrist is relaxed and you an just slide the arm on the X axis, rather than keeping the wrist in position and bending/stretching to reach. Generally you don't want to rely on the wrist for movements, or tense anything. If you are tensing stuff, make it stuff other than wrist Dual screen "oblige" (don't know if the word is good) to move wrist a lot and i have 4 at work | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20319 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On September 27 2013 06:44 Cyro wrote: That's why you do the second type of movement in the video with no tension on the wrist, not the first Oh ok. I'm going to try that. Thank you. You've been really helpfull. | ||
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medicaldepot
Canada1 Post
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vaL4r
Germany240 Posts
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