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On July 03 2021 07:30 Purressure wrote: Is it me or have GPU prices gone insane? a 6800 xt going over the counter for about €900-1000 over here. Looking to upgrade my 5500xt (8gb) which I bought knowing I wasn't gonna be using it for long (been over a year now), but man.. prices are ridiculous atm. Using a 27" 1440p 144hz monitor, for most games the 5500xt is okay-ish with some adjustments in game settings but still, I notice it struggling too often to ignore it any longer :')
They're much lower than they were 3 months ago
My bad, meant the 6700 xt not the 6800 xt. Paying 900-1000 for a gpu is just ridiculous. I remember once upon a time paying about 500 and you had one of the best cards on the market, now prices have doubled and you still don't get anywhere near the best on the market. No wonder people turn to consoles, which I absolutely refuse to do, but forking out a grand for a single unit, ridiculous.
It’s ridiculous. Luckily I wasn’t looking to aim nearly at the top end of the market, but finding a card at all to buy is/was hard enough, never mind getting a decent price.
I needed a whole load of upgrades too so I just ended up getting one built for me, the traditional price hike disadvantage that that would entail was way less of a factor.
On July 03 2021 07:30 Purressure wrote: Is it me or have GPU prices gone insane? a 6800 xt going over the counter for about €900-1000 over here. Looking to upgrade my 5500xt (8gb) which I bought knowing I wasn't gonna be using it for long (been over a year now), but man.. prices are ridiculous atm. Using a 27" 1440p 144hz monitor, for most games the 5500xt is okay-ish with some adjustments in game settings but still, I notice it struggling too often to ignore it any longer :')
They're much lower than they were 3 months ago
My bad, meant the 6700 xt not the 6800 xt. Paying 900-1000 for a gpu is just ridiculous. I remember once upon a time paying about 500 and you had one of the best cards on the market, now prices have doubled and you still don't get anywhere near the best on the market. No wonder people turn to consoles, which I absolutely refuse to do, but forking out a grand for a single unit, ridiculous.
While I consider myself no expert, I think there are several reasons for that. As I'm from Europe too, I can very much sympathise with #1 and #3: 1) VAT (Value Added Tax). I think it's 19% in Germany and 20% in Bulgaria, but it's still there. While NVIDIA recommends $699 for RTX 3080 FE and AMD recommends $479 for Radeon RX 6700 XT, it's not the price we pay. We always have to add ~20% VAT. So you should pay just ~485 euro for Radeon RX 6700 XT with tax included. 2) Graphics cards are a lot beefier/stronger than when I bought MSI GTX 980 6 years ago. Back then you were able to use multiple, a.k.a SLI, but you can do that only with RTX 3090. I imagine it as if you're using 2 except it's 1 big graphics card now. Hence, price difference. 3) Brand > FE card in terms of price. So RTX 3080 FE card is $699 MSRP but Newegg and others sell ASUS ROG Strix 3080 white for $1160 which is a big difference in price.
FE = NVIDIA's own GPU. AMD has such reference cards too. I totally understand your concerns though. MSI GTX 980 cost me about €530, while ASUS ROG Strix 3080 OC White cost me €1378 if I exclude other bundle items which were part of deal.
Also, you can change this RTX 3080 example from a "limited edition" GPU to a more regular one but difference will still be in a few hundred dollars.
On July 03 2021 07:30 Purressure wrote: Is it me or have GPU prices gone insane? a 6800 xt going over the counter for about €900-1000 over here. Looking to upgrade my 5500xt (8gb) which I bought knowing I wasn't gonna be using it for long (been over a year now), but man.. prices are ridiculous atm. Using a 27" 1440p 144hz monitor, for most games the 5500xt is okay-ish with some adjustments in game settings but still, I notice it struggling too often to ignore it any longer :')
They're much lower than they were 3 months ago
My bad, meant the 6700 xt not the 6800 xt. Paying 900-1000 for a gpu is just ridiculous. I remember once upon a time paying about 500 and you had one of the best cards on the market, now prices have doubled and you still don't get anywhere near the best on the market. No wonder people turn to consoles, which I absolutely refuse to do, but forking out a grand for a single unit, ridiculous.
It’s ridiculous. Luckily I wasn’t looking to aim nearly at the top end of the market, but finding a card at all to buy is/was hard enough, never mind getting a decent price.
I needed a whole load of upgrades too so I just ended up getting one built for me, the traditional price hike disadvantage that that would entail was way less of a factor.
Yeah, atm I'm thinking about switching my 27 inch 144hz 1440p monitor to a 24 (by using the money I get from my 27) 1080p 144hz to reduce the strain on my 5500xt, but even then I fear the difference won't be enough for me to not start hunting a used 6700xt or even a 6800xt and even then i'll be forking out at least 700.
On July 03 2021 07:30 Purressure wrote: Is it me or have GPU prices gone insane? a 6800 xt going over the counter for about €900-1000 over here. Looking to upgrade my 5500xt (8gb) which I bought knowing I wasn't gonna be using it for long (been over a year now), but man.. prices are ridiculous atm. Using a 27" 1440p 144hz monitor, for most games the 5500xt is okay-ish with some adjustments in game settings but still, I notice it struggling too often to ignore it any longer :')
They're much lower than they were 3 months ago
My bad, meant the 6700 xt not the 6800 xt. Paying 900-1000 for a gpu is just ridiculous. I remember once upon a time paying about 500 and you had one of the best cards on the market, now prices have doubled and you still don't get anywhere near the best on the market. No wonder people turn to consoles, which I absolutely refuse to do, but forking out a grand for a single unit, ridiculous.
As a cherry on top, AMD stopped releasing drivers for their 300 series which only just turned 6 years old and which was being sold as brand new up until 4 years ago.
That's not a complete GPU lifecycle even for me - i upgrade regularly, but my 980 which is older than many of these is still an okay card and getting great use.
Nvidia is dropping Kepler from drivers but it will be 9.5 years old at that point.
On July 03 2021 07:30 Purressure wrote: Is it me or have GPU prices gone insane? a 6800 xt going over the counter for about €900-1000 over here. Looking to upgrade my 5500xt (8gb) which I bought knowing I wasn't gonna be using it for long (been over a year now), but man.. prices are ridiculous atm. Using a 27" 1440p 144hz monitor, for most games the 5500xt is okay-ish with some adjustments in game settings but still, I notice it struggling too often to ignore it any longer :')
They're much lower than they were 3 months ago
My bad, meant the 6700 xt not the 6800 xt. Paying 900-1000 for a gpu is just ridiculous. I remember once upon a time paying about 500 and you had one of the best cards on the market, now prices have doubled and you still don't get anywhere near the best on the market. No wonder people turn to consoles, which I absolutely refuse to do, but forking out a grand for a single unit, ridiculous.
As a cherry on top, AMD stopped releasing drivers for their 300 series which only just turned 6 years old and which was being sold as brand new up until 4 years ago.
That's not a complete GPU lifecycle even for me - i upgrade regularly, but my 980 which is older than many of these is still an okay card and getting great use.
Nvidia is dropping Kepler from drivers but it will be 9.5 years old at that point.
Yeah I switched from intel + nvidia to a complete red setup, used to have a really beefy system back then but now I was on a limited budget so I only have a 5600 + a 5500xt oc from asrock and 16gb ram (cl14 3200mhz). Been without a system for about 2 years before jumping on the red hype like a little over a year ago(?), not regretting it because prices are insane on both sides but small details like what you mentioned about the drivers for example can make a difference. Gonna try and switch monitors, maybe even find someone who literally just wants to trade, I don't really mind but I just hope a 1080p 24" monitor will take off a significant amount of strain on my gpu, not sure if it'll be a good enough solution but whatever, it's worth a try.
Used to have 2 monitors before and always used the 24" to play games, had a 27" next to it to monitor everything else especially while streaming. Not streaming anymore though, barely have the time for it.
On July 04 2021 01:16 SPL1T wrote: I just sold my Vega 56 for $500 going to use a old 780ti tell 6700xt drops down to msrp levels.... hopefully by December
Yeah, Ethereum was going down from 18 June to 27 June but it's going up again. During this small window I noticed more and more GPUs were becoming available, I even managed to get one, but now I don't know.. I guess we should pray Ethereum decreases for good to see long lasting effects
On July 04 2021 01:16 SPL1T wrote: I just sold my Vega 56 for $500 going to use a old 780ti tell 6700xt drops down to msrp levels.... hopefully by December
Yeah, Ethereum was going down from 18 June to 27 June but it's going up again. During this small window I noticed more and more GPUs were becoming available, I even managed to get one, but now I don't know.. I guess we should pray Ethereum decreases for good to see long lasting effects
On July 04 2021 01:16 SPL1T wrote: I just sold my Vega 56 for $500 going to use a old 780ti tell 6700xt drops down to msrp levels.... hopefully by December
Yeah, Ethereum was going down from 18 June to 27 June but it's going up again. During this small window I noticed more and more GPUs were becoming available, I even managed to get one, but now I don't know.. I guess we should pray Ethereum decreases for good to see long lasting effects
I thought eth was moving to cpu mining soon...
proof of stake, not cpu mining :D
People will just GPU-mine something else. Nicehash is going on about Ergo already
I'll deal with cable mess on the weekend when I have more time, but that's it for now.
NVIDIA's app decided to change resolution to 4k since I'm offending GPU apparently.. But it will have to wait for a new monitor, I'm not sure when.
Like the white theme, same taste as mine, congrats on the purchase. You better send me whatever you were using before ^_^'
Haha, thank you! Even though old PC is still running fine, you won't like it because it's black. Other than that, Cyro helped me with component list 6 years ago: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/Rm3wsX Only CPU cooler has been changed, I never liked Thermaltake Silver Arrow's fan clips, especially once I saw that Noctua fan. I plan to sell old PC to a long time sc2 friend. He still struggles with fps in 3vs3 and 4vs4.
I tested Riftbreaker recently and the difference between my custom memory settings and a 3200 XMP was +35% avg and +60% on the 99'th percentile FPS - the biggest difference i've seen on zen 3, probably bandwidth-driven. The engine looks a lot like Starcraft but with more cores and more memory bandwidth.
On July 09 2021 09:36 Cyro wrote: Nice, congrats :D
I would still work on the CPU tuning.
I tested Riftbreaker recently and the difference between my custom memory settings and a 3200 XMP was +35% avg and +60% on the 99'th percentile FPS - the biggest difference i've seen on zen 3, probably bandwidth-driven. The engine looks a lot like Starcraft but with more cores and more memory bandwidth.
Thanks, I'll focus on CPU overclock as you say. Sadly, this GPU vertical idea didn't last very long. I had an unfortunate discovery: ASUS ROG Strix when mounted vertically dissipates hot air in CPU's direction, so it caused my CPU to be up to 70 C when idle while GPU was stress tested. There was zero load on CPU, just GPU was tested via FurMark. It doesn't help that I've reduced AIO's fans to a very low speed (about 40%?) to get very quiet experience either. This massive heatsink comes with a huge price it seems, especially that open area... Maybe if it was blowing the opposite way it wouldn't be so bad. Perhaps it's also not that bad if you have an air cooler (?) but it's definitely not great with AIO in my case. Even aluminium part was super hot when I tried to touch it, this one: + Show Spoiler +
So it blows hot air from heatsink where it says "GEFORCE RTX" + Show Spoiler +
Other than, all is good now in this position (horizontal): + Show Spoiler +
Edit: maybe watercooled card is a good idea but I won't attempt that. I like how this one looks too much. :D
I'd stress test it again with the GPU in the horizontal orientation and check temperatures. Furmark is a fairly extreme load, and it might be a smaller difference than you'd think between horizontal/vertical under normal use cases. It also looks cooler in the vertical orientation which you can't discount (given that you've gone for aesthetics already anyways).
On July 10 2021 02:08 Lmui wrote: I'd stress test it again with the GPU in the horizontal orientation and check temperatures. Furmark is a fairly extreme load, and it might be a smaller difference than you'd think between horizontal/vertical under normal use cases. It also looks cooler in the vertical orientation which you can't discount (given that you've gone for aesthetics already anyways).
No, no. GPU is fine either way. Problem is GPU's heatsink dissipates hot air in CPU's direction, causing CPU to get hotter even though it's idle. That is something very weird, so I'd be happy to try your suggestions if you know what's going on.
Here is old photo with arrows to show you hot air direction, CPU cooler's aluminium circle thingie is super hot when GPU is vertical and stress tested. CPU is even in sleep mode according to Ryzen Master, so it can't get any more underclocked/underused.
I currently have "AMD Overclocking" (BIOS option name) - Precision Boost Overdrive on my ASUS BIOS. I set thermal throttle to 77 C a couple of weeks ago, so it doesn't get too crazy when I do Cinebench and others. Not sure if it's a good idea though... Up to 90 C should be alright, but I don't know if I should go even close to it.
Edit: I've also made my gaming monitor choice. LG 27GP850-B as recommended by Hardware Unboxed a few days ago. So 1440p it is! I don't want 60-70 fps experience in 4k in some games and price of 4k 144 Hz monitors is still not great.
On July 10 2021 02:08 Lmui wrote: I'd stress test it again with the GPU in the horizontal orientation and check temperatures. Furmark is a fairly extreme load, and it might be a smaller difference than you'd think between horizontal/vertical under normal use cases. It also looks cooler in the vertical orientation which you can't discount (given that you've gone for aesthetics already anyways).
No, no. GPU is fine either way. Problem is GPU's heatsink dissipates hot air in CPU's direction, causing CPU to get hotter even though it's idle. That is something very weird, so I'd be happy to try your suggestions if you know what's going on.
Here is old photo with arrows to show you hot air direction, CPU cooler's aluminium circle thingie is super hot when GPU is vertical and stress tested. CPU is even in sleep mode according to Ryzen Master, so it can't get any more underclocked/underused.
I currently have "AMD Overclocking" (BIOS option name) - Precision Boost Overdrive on my ASUS BIOS. I set thermal throttle to 77 C a couple of weeks ago, so it doesn't get too crazy when I do Cinebench and others. Not sure if it's a good idea though... Up to 90 C should be alright, but I don't know if I should go even close to it.
Edit: I've also made my gaming monitor choice. LG 27GP850-B as recommended by Hardware Unboxed a few days ago. So 1440p it is! I don't want 60-70 fps experience in 4k in some games and price of 4k 144 Hz monitors is still not great.
The air that you're using to cool the CPU is internal case air, which you're probably letting heat up to a really high temperature because of the graphics card power, sealed environment and not enough airflow to replace the air before it heats up much. For optimising CPU temperatures (which i would generally recommend) it's much better to use air from outside of the case for the radiator.
Anything in immediate proximity to where the air leaves the graphics card is also going to get very hot, because the graphics card power and heatsink/fans can heat and move a rather large volume of air to high temperatures like 60c. Maybe that was even affecting the CPU block in a meaningful way.
On July 10 2021 02:08 Lmui wrote: I'd stress test it again with the GPU in the horizontal orientation and check temperatures. Furmark is a fairly extreme load, and it might be a smaller difference than you'd think between horizontal/vertical under normal use cases. It also looks cooler in the vertical orientation which you can't discount (given that you've gone for aesthetics already anyways).
No, no. GPU is fine either way. Problem is GPU's heatsink dissipates hot air in CPU's direction, causing CPU to get hotter even though it's idle. That is something very weird, so I'd be happy to try your suggestions if you know what's going on.
Here is old photo with arrows to show you hot air direction, CPU cooler's aluminium circle thingie is super hot when GPU is vertical and stress tested. CPU is even in sleep mode according to Ryzen Master, so it can't get any more underclocked/underused.
I currently have "AMD Overclocking" (BIOS option name) - Precision Boost Overdrive on my ASUS BIOS. I set thermal throttle to 77 C a couple of weeks ago, so it doesn't get too crazy when I do Cinebench and others. Not sure if it's a good idea though... Up to 90 C should be alright, but I don't know if I should go even close to it.
Edit: I've also made my gaming monitor choice. LG 27GP850-B as recommended by Hardware Unboxed a few days ago. So 1440p it is! I don't want 60-70 fps experience in 4k in some games and price of 4k 144 Hz monitors is still not great.
The air that you're using to cool the CPU is internal case air, which you're probably letting heat up to a really high temperature because of the graphics card power, sealed environment and not enough airflow to replace the air before it heats up much. For optimising CPU temperatures (which i would generally recommend) it's much better to use air from outside of the case for the radiator.
Anything in immediate proximity to where the air leaves the graphics card is also going to get very hot, because the graphics card power and heatsink/fans can heat and move a rather large volume of air to high temperatures like 60c. Maybe that was even affecting the CPU block in a meaningful way.
You're totally right! Thank you very much!!! Here is what I've done to check this out. 1) CPU test case: horizontal GPU and top panel off. It led to 100-150 MHz better CPU performance (PBO) and overall better thermals. 2) GPU test case: vertical GPU and top panel off. CPU temperature was good, about 55 C while GPU is 100% and stress tested via FurMark. GPU temperature was 73 C and using Quiet mode, so it's as good as it gets in terms of air cooling GPU.
I use push fans because this case doesn't fit pull configurations as far as I remember from an attempt I had weeks ago. And it appears that Gamers Nexus already has a video about this issue which I found very helpful:
Summary: 1) Gamers Nexus replace front panel's acrylic with mesh. Better thermals. I guess Cooler Master has fixed that in new iterations because I already have mesh front panel. 2) Gamers Nexus replaced top panel's acrylic with mesh to improve thermals. I've replicated this with no top panel to verify results, so this concept works.
I have raised a ticket with Cooler Master if they can provide me with mesh from their C700P case. If not, I'll find a way somehow to replace this acrylic shenanigan with mesh so I can keep GPU vertically mounted. You're right though, as far as I remember, EVERYTHING was super hot, including CPU fans when I stress tested GPU during this issue. I even had a CPU fan error in BIOS when I left this for 2 hours to run before. It's crazy that Cooler Master didn't think about air flow that much for this case, so I guess it's only good for air cooling unless you want to do some case modding
So I had to end up selling the 5800x. Needed the cash. Since all I play and have time for to sc2. Will a 3300x be good enough? 1440p low is what I play at.
On August 01 2021 12:31 SPL1T wrote: So I had to end up selling the 5800x. Needed the cash. Since all I play and have time for to sc2. Will a 3300x be good enough? 1440p low is what I play at.
It'll be good enough, a 3300x is similar to a regular 3600 which is what I use and I play sc on custom settings, most stuff being on medium and it doesn't flinch whatsoever at 1440p.
EPT
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