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SpiZe
Canada3640 Posts
So looking at my choices right now I guess the main choice is between the RX480 in Crossfire or the 1070. I've never done SLI/Crossfire so I don't really know what the drawbacks and the other drawback for the 480 is that no one seems to fucking sell any in Canada (the 4gb version at least). So should I just go with the 1070 ? Rest of my pc (i already own it) + Show Spoiler + Z97X-Gaming 5 Mobo i7-4790K 4ghz PSU EVGA 750W 2x8gb GSkill Ares ddr3 ram 2x benq 144hz | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
Additionally (though it varies widely), multi-card setups have some issues with keeping frames coming out consistently. Historically Nvidia has been better at this, but I think the gap has closed considerably. YMMV on whether that'll be a noticeable problem for you or not. | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
In a few games 480 in crossfire will be better. DX12 games, specifically. For most I'd prefer the 1070. Single-GPU solutions are just less of a hassle. @Cyro - people who crossfired GCN cards reported little to no stutter/problems with consistency, if I recall correctly. Edit: Techpowerup did a 480 crossfire review. Of their test games the 480 crossfire setup did 5-10% better than the 1070 when crossfire was working... but for most of their test games the 1070 was better. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
In Europe, however, everything is subject to extra taxes and what not plus the premium local stores charge to make a profit which makes for pretty steep prices This really depends on where you are, it's not so bad in some places. Right now some hardware is near US prices in the UK, i guess it must not have caught up to the exchange rates yet because that never happens. £190-220 rx 480's and 970's @Cyro You got the wrong name there  The main problem with crossfire/sli today isn't microstutter, thankfully. The #1 problem on my list is that it's almost always done with alternate frame rendering as it's relatively to implement and gives a flashier FPS number - this means that the GPU's do not work together to get frames to you faster at all, they just take turns to output frames. A single GPU outputting a steady 60fps will get you a frame every 16.67ms Two GPU's outputting a steady 60fps will give you a frame every 33.34ms, but you see frame 1 from GPU A, frame 2 from GPU B, frame 3 from GPU A etc. This results in the same amount of frames per second but the frame itself still takes twice as long to generate - this increases latency between input and seeing the game react by quite a lot. at 30fps this is a ~33.34ms increase at 60fps it's a 16.67ms increase at 120fps it's an 8.34ms increase etcetc. So this delay is human detectable on a standard high-refresh-rate setup and something like a 1.5x multiplier to input lag if you're gaming at a solid 60fps - not a great solution. On top of the support requirements, needing the full amount of VRAM on both of your cards etc, you generally don't want to crossfire low end or even midrange cards. A single 1080 (or AMD equivelant) would be preferable to two rx480's - and a single hbm2 flagship GPU would be preferable to two 1080's (or AMD equivelant) Once you have some of those things, there's less of a downside to adding a second card for the generation as you can't just switch out to something much faster than what you have. There are also a few other issues when working with two cards like this - one that comes to mind is live video encoding on the GPU. Since each GPU is taking turns to make frames (GPU A makes frame 1, GPU B makes frame 2, GPU A makes frame 3 etc) that means that each GPU only deals with half of the frames. To capture and encode video properly you need all of them - the workaround to this i think is to transfer frames between the memory of the GPU's and do all of the encoding on one GPU which may involve an additional performance hit - supporting it at all was an issue for a long time and may still be an issue now. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
No decent board/cooler, no HBM2 (or real need for it, even at slow speeds); smaller die than expected too, ~looks like 420mm^2. I guess they're waiting to call 600mm^2 hbm2 GPU "titan" and gtx1180ti. At $1200 they are just waiting for AMD to release mid to high end cards as well | ||
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Jochan
Poland1730 Posts
My goal is: gaming, higher end. I want to change CPU (i5 2500) and graphics (radeon 280x loud + coil wind from time to time.). 2xSSD and HDD I have from my current build. *EDIT* From the form What is your budget? 1500-2000 $ What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? High quality, AAA titles for time to time, CPU guzzlers like Arma 3 and DayZ, Dota2 Do you intend to overclock? Yes. Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No. Do you need an operating system? Yes - I have upgraded win 7 OEM, and from what I've googled it deactivates with new motherboard Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? no. What country will you be buying your parts in? Poland What I've chosen is (newegg just for reference I'm from EU so prices may wary) i7 6700k Gigabyte Z170-Gaming K3 CoolerMaster Hyper 212X HyperX Fury Black 2x8GB be quiet! Pure Power L8 CM 630W - probably a bit too big W-wise Fractal Design Define R5 Black Any tips on what I could change/swap with the similar price tag ? Maybe I shouldn't go for i7 and I should stick with i5? PSU and cooler I've just googled the reviews and went with these, same for a graphics card (I know I want GTX 1070). Is there something better/new revision coming soon that might make me wanna hold on for a bit? Bonus question: My master plan is to plug in my old SSD with Windows 10 and do a fresh install from it's menu. Will it work ? Should I even bother to do this or Windows 10 will just transition smoothly to na new components? | ||
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SoulRiM
Germany53 Posts
Talking about Windows 10. I've heard that the fresh install from Windows menu can totally destroy the OS, but I haven't tried it myself - just to be safe. | ||
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Jochan
Poland1730 Posts
On July 23 2016 04:27 SoulRiM wrote: @Jochan Going for an i5 and instead getting a GTX 1080 for example would be a good investment. the i7 just gives litte boosts of 1-3 FPS in games. Talking about Windows 10. I've heard that the fresh install from Windows menu can totally destroy the OS, but I haven't tried it myself - just to be safe. Thank You for the suggestion. I will take that into consideration. It's a bit more pricey tho, that switch is roughly 100Euro more. I already found out today I have to shell out 100Euro for OS, as mine is upgraded OEM tide to motherboard  | ||
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SoulRiM
Germany53 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
you should take 3000mhz RAM as a baseline as the price is very similar to lower speed ddr4. bit better cooler would be useful as well, but wouldn't be needed if you used i5 | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
See, this is why I love this thread. I always learn stuff. Multi-GPU benchmarking does seem to be entering an interesting future, with DX12 & Vulkan possibly mattering a lot more than traditional SLI/Crossfire. | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
What do you mean by that? | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
I couldn't find a good google link, but this'll do. http://www.anandtech.com/show/10067/ashes-of-the-singularity-revisited-beta/4 | ||
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sdee3
Serbia7 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
--------- I did some fairly quick tests on sc2 RAM scaling, there was a few % error when restarting system and game (performance isn't always identical) Test system: 6700k at 4.6ghz core, 4.4ghz uncore. 3200c16, 2133c16 and then 3200c16 again First test showed the 3200mhz to be ~17% faster for average FPS, the second test showed it to be ~14% faster. 1-2% smaller improvement to minimum FPS but almost the same. That's a LOT of benefit for a ~1.5x change in RAM performance, so i'm kinda curious to see more now. Some results (every dot is a frame, this includes 3 benchmarks from each RAM speed.. blue = 3200, orange = 2133) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vtsvYpL.png) http://i.imgur.com/vtsvYpL.png This particular benchmark was fairly high FPS (midgame engagement on high-FPS settings).. quite unsmooth @144hz but probably looks fine at 60. I need a good fight replay that kills performance for worst case scenario benching (could make one i guess) | ||
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Brutaxilos
United States2633 Posts
I've been thinking of getting a cheap Windows desktop as a backup so that I can play SC2 (I already have a monitor and keyboard and everything). I am wondering what is the bare minimum specs that I would need to play SC2 decently (graphics are not integral, but I would ideally like to have a good frame rate and good response time). Not sure how best to describe this, but even though my current laptop fulfills the spec requirements for SC2, I am having framerate issues as well as latency with my controls (even playing on lowest graphics and other settings). Does anyone know how much a used desktop like this would cost? Edit: If anyone personally has an answer or can help me, please PM me | ||
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
Motherboard: MSI H110M PRO As for the PSU, I asked if there are other possibilities, and I was told Chieftec iarena 500W and Chieftec iarena 600W are the alternatives, but according to several reviews, they are also low qualitiy PSUs.CPU: Intel Core i5-6400 4x3,3Ghz RAM: 8GB DDR4 2133Mhz HDD: 1TB SATA GPU: nVidia GeForce GTX970 4GB OC VGA/HDMI (Gigabyte G1 Windforce) PSU: LC Power 600W +Optical drive +additional SSD So my question is, can you guys recommend some better quality supply units (possibly not unnecessarily expensive), or just tell me what I should be looking for? How many Watts should it be able to supply, and are there any compatibility criteria I should be keeping an eye on (I'm trying to learn here for the future)? Also, just to be sure, I know the LC Power in the prebuilt is pretty bad, but I can use the PC for a couple of weeks before I buy the other PSU, right? It can't be that bad, right? Thanks again! | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
Or you could always pick up a cheap modular PSU later to lessen the pain of routing and zip-tying cables. | ||
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
On July 27 2016 15:21 Disregard wrote: Where are you buying from? You're better off getting the Chieftec 500W if it makes things easier for you, they are good enough. And LC Power is garbage. Or you could always pick up a cheap modular PSU later to lessen the pain of routing and zip-tying cables. I'm buying from a smaller local shop in Hungary. I know LC Power is pretty bad, that's why I asked for alternatives. I read that Chieftec arena isn't exactly the highest quality, either, but you think it will suffice? That would definitely make things easier for me, thanks! | ||
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