EPTTeamliquid Monitor Thread - Page 68
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On February 14 2014 09:51 skyR wrote: Dell's 4k is a TN panel. Also 4k at 30 Hz. The others, which are more expensive, are 4k at 60 Hz. I don't think these are available yet. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Unless I completely misunderstand, the strobing is pretty much low-frequency PWM-controlled backlight dimming, just synchronized with actual panel refreshes. The backlight turns on and off at sharp intervals (1-2ms of light), it can't really be called PWM dimming. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xPs4x2b.png) Have you seen it? It's night and day change, hdd vs ssd - quite honestly i'm insulted to have used such bad LCD technology without being educated/told about it. It's one of the largest changes i have made to hardware since using a core 2 duo and a gtx260. A reduction of significantly more than an order of magnitude on motion blur (vs a regular 60hz monitor) is nothing to take at all lightly. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
-sadface- i thought it was ips, should've read forbes more carefully.... http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/01/07/dell-wasnt-joking-about-that-28-inch-sub-1000-4k-monitor-its-only-699/  | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
The effect with respect to motion performance is a different and very significant matter. I haven't gotten to try it yet, but I've used a plasma TV on many occasions for gaming and still remember gaming and using CRTs (and getting used to LCDs being worse in many ways). edit: for that matter, did everyone pretty much have a "Hey, is mouse trails turned on?" moment when first using an LCD?  By the way, the other cheaper 4k options seem to be TN too, just some are 60 Hz. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
Is there a consensus on the available 4K TN 27-29" monitors now? I think a lot of people were complaining about it being a worse TN than even normal TNs? I don't think I would need a second monitor, so viewing angles...? I'm not really playing games on my computer anymore so input lag doesn't really matter that much now. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Just so we're clear, the ones I know of and am thinking of are Dell P2815Q (30 Hz at 4k), Asus PB287Q, Lenovo ThinkVision Pro2840m, and Samsung U28D590D. I don't know of any reviews yet, but I haven't looked for user reviews of P2815Q. I don't know about the viewing angles. The thing with viewing angles is that the top of the screen to your eye is always going to be a substantially different angle than the bottom of the screen to your eye (unless you're sitting very far away), so they always matter to some extent no matter how you're looking at a screen. It just may or may not be noticeably bad. Some TNs aren't so bad here. Supposedly AUO is making 4k AHVA panels. Monitors using that would be eventual or upcoming, I suppose. That and Samsung PLS are more or less like IPS in terms of performance characteristics. I think LG has 4k in the works too. To be honest, 4k at 28" is kind of high res unless you're viewing from a pretty close distance. I mean, you can probably think of it as having four 14" 1080p laptop screens next to each other, if you've ever seen something at around that size and resolution. I guess to see stuff you need (1) good eyes, (2) greater than 100% display scaling, which still has shitty support in Windows, and/or (3) really close viewing distance. If you're viewing from very close, I guess those viewing angles do matter. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
If the screen flashing on and off bothers someone, that's what the strobing is accomplishing, except as you point out the "on" intervals may be even shorter than is typical for PWM-based backlight dimming. The substantive difference is when the "on" and "off" periods occur in relation to screen refreshes, but if what people are sensitive to is the flickering, this sure counts as flickering too, right? I agree, but these are in two completely different frequency ranges, i'm somewhat bothered by strobing (sometimes i can't run it for more than a short period of time, others i can sit it on for 8 hours) but can't even notice pwm dimming and i have heard the opposite from some other people etc | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
Most of my usage would be programming and development that's why 4K would be nice - it's more convenient to have the single display with all visual elements on at once, versus 3 displays for 3x the desk space split across each one. Biggest concern is really the scaling -- text might be way too small, but I really like my 14" 1080p T420 Thinkpad, so I think it'd be okay. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On February 14 2014 12:21 Cyro wrote: I agree, but these are in two completely different frequency ranges, i'm somewhat bothered by strobing (sometimes i can't run it for more than a short period of time, others i can sit it on for 8 hours) but can't even notice pwm dimming and i have heard the opposite from some other people etc Which frequency ranges? Most monitors seem to be in the 160-400 Hz range or so. Some definitely under 200 Hz: http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2013/test-samsung-s27c650d-led-teil7.html#Backlight http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2013/test-aoc-i2769vm-teil8.html#Backlight And check out the duty cycle on the Samsung even for 140 cd/m^2. Some people set a lot lower than that, so it'd look pretty much just like that graph you posted earlier but at less than double the rate. So what brightness level do you have set? What strobing level on LightBoost? Maybe the fatigue is from just the duty cycle. Or it could be the reduction in frequency (VG248QE uses 360 Hz backlight control). Or actually, I think the most plausible explanation is the color temperature (maybe also lower contrast but I doubt it's that). Supposedly it goes way up with the strobes to say 8700K on the VG248QE, I think dependent on the strobe duration, so you get a bluer screen, and blue can cause fatigue. Do you adjust the monitor colors to compensate when activating that? On February 14 2014 13:33 Blisse wrote: So ideally I would prefer a 30-32" 4K display, but the price of those are really high unless you want a 4K TV which I'm iffy about (moreso because of general consensus versus any reason of my own..) Most of my usage would be programming and development that's why 4K would be nice - it's more convenient to have the single display with all visual elements on at once, versus 3 displays for 3x the desk space split across each one. Biggest concern is really the scaling -- text might be way too small, but I really like my 14" 1080p T420 Thinkpad, so I think it'd be okay. I can see that for coding, but somehow those 1600p 30" or 1440p 27" seem like they'd do about just as well unless you actually use 100% scaling on 4k 28". Or maybe dual or even 3x portrait 1080p, which depending on stands and overall config may not take more space in a meaningful way. Well, three monitors would. And two is only half the pixels of 4k admittedly. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bFyopwW.jpg) those are U2414H btw Maybe I have some kind of bias, but I'm not sure it's a great idea to be an early 4k adopter. I can't say I've tried it myself though. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On February 14 2014 14:44 Myrmidon wrote: Which frequency ranges? Most monitors seem to be in the 160-400 Hz range or so. Some definitely under 200 Hz: http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2013/test-samsung-s27c650d-led-teil7.html#Backlight http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2013/test-aoc-i2769vm-teil8.html#Backlight And check out the duty cycle on the Samsung even for 140 cd/m^2. Some people set a lot lower than that, so it'd look pretty much just like that graph you posted earlier but at less than double the rate. So what brightness level do you have set? What strobing level on LightBoost? Maybe the fatigue is from just the duty cycle. Or it could be the reduction in frequency (VG248QE uses 360 Hz backlight control). Or actually, I think the most plausible explanation is the color temperature (maybe also lower contrast but I doubt it's that). Supposedly it goes way up with the strobes to say 8700K on the VG248QE, I think dependent on the strobe duration, so you get a bluer screen, and blue can cause fatigue. Do you adjust the monitor colors to compensate when activating that? I can see that for coding, but somehow those 1600p 30" or 1440p 27" seem like they'd do about just as well unless you actually use 100% scaling on 4k 28". Or maybe dual or even 3x portrait 1080p, which depending on stands and overall config may not take more space in a meaningful way. Well, three monitors would. And two is only half the pixels of 4k admittedly. those are U2414H btw Maybe I have some kind of bias, but I'm not sure it's a great idea to be an early 4k adopter. I can't say I've tried it myself though. Tried max and min strobe length, it's same with both (though max strobes for twice as long) I heard pwm dimming described in khz, at least with the modded pcb vg248qe, thought that it was much more frequent then ~200-400hz or even lower. Is that not visible? On my webcam for example, my screen appears like this with lowish exposure - ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mM2T8KLl.jpg) - - ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/49E4xMtl.jpg) ^I found really interesting I'll check out color stuff. Saw some adjustments to make but honestly not really bothered for the sake of making stuff look less slightly-blue-tinted (i like it a little, shoot me, also kinda too lazy to switch profiles every time i alt tab) but if it lessens fatigue it would be useful + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jhFTn7k.jpg) ^144hz - funnily enough, caught between pixel transitions apparently ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UhDiQEm.jpg) ^strobe Seems even a cheap webcam is somewhat useful for showing some effects :D Not nearly as good as pursuit camera though. Regular backlight does not look nearly as bad, strobe it's hard to tell because everything is perfect anyway | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
I spoken with my cousin and he actually recommended Dell and HP to my massive surprise. My budget is around 200 max per monitor, is anyone able to recommend a good monitor suited for gaming and just general use? I'm asking around 21 - 24 inches. 1080P. Any recommendations is good. (fyi I don't plan on doing gaming on both monitors, just game on 1 monitor and surfing/chatting on the other, so I can damn stop alt tabbing for god sakes.) | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
I don't think it's a big deal to get two monitors that are the same. Unless the OCD would kill you, I'd keep the old monitor and get a single new one that's better. Depending on the games and how much you're playing games as opposed to other things, sensitivities, etc., I'd look for a 120+ Hz monitor that supports LightBoost (Asus VG248QE, BenQ XL2411T, or BenQ XL2420T) or possibly an IPS. You could get two decent IPS in budget, but the 120+ Hz monitors are out of reach if you're really buying two, which seems pointless. | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
As for the games, currently I run TERA, DotA 2 and plan on playing ESO when it releases. I also do have SC2 and D3 installed which I haven't touched much on both. My monitor is VH238H and now that you mention it, maybe I should just Amazon or Newegg another so my OCD doesn't destroy me. Is that wise? Or are the newer monitors superior that it would make a difference for me to change? My Video card is ASUS GTX 670 Direct CU II | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On February 19 2014 16:07 Womwomwom wrote: Which monitor is it and what's wrong with it? An electronics repairer should be able to do some basic repairs for a hundred or two. It is a 27" LG Flatron. The problem with it is that whenever I have the backlight on it gets a very strong electrical smell, but only with the backlight on. At one point the screen went completely blank (but audio still worked) until I let it cool down. Not using the backlight it works fine, it is just dim and the color doesnt look as good. I found a guy on craigslist that will fix it for $59 + parts but I don't know how much I should trust somebody from craigslist. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Which monitor is it and what's wrong with it? An electronics repairer should be able to do some basic repairs for a hundred or two. A hundred or two? Isn't that like, the cost of a new monitor? | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On February 19 2014 16:47 Cyro wrote: A hundred or two? Isn't that like, the cost of a new monitor? That was my first thought. If it is more than like $100 I don't really want to get it fixed lol | ||
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