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CURRENT STATUS: ALL DONE! Celeron G530 is playing 1080p silently. Thanks guys!
List of components: + Show Spoiler +# CPU: Intel Celeron G530
# CPU cooler: Zalman CNPS10X Performa (15.2cm high)
# CPU fan: Noctua NF-S12B ULN (12cm)
# Mainboard: ASUS P8H67-V R.3.0
# RAM: Kingston KHX1600C9D3LK2/4GX
# PSU: picoPSU-150-XT + 150W Adapter Power Kit
# SSD: Crucial m4
# Dedicated graphics card: None
# Dedivated sound card: None (A/V-Reveiver connected optically)
# Case: Cooler Master Silencio 550 (CPU cooler barely fits; most coolers are too big)
# Wireless keyboard: Microsoft Arc (black)
# Wireless mouse: Logitech M505
# DVD-Drive: External (with external power)
Bondator added his build with an i3 2100T and passively cooled graphics card inside a HTPC case.
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original post:
Hey guys!
I will be assembling a PC to connect to my TV.
Main objective: Show Starcraft 2 streams in 1080p with flash (twitch.tv etc.) without framedrop!
Secondary objective: Be silent!
First I was thinking about intelAtom/nvidiaION or AMDfuzion. Both are not fast enough (based on internet research).
So it will be a regular intel processor. But with a T at the end of the name.
These models seem interesting due to low power/temperature (35W, max65°C):
# i3-2120T
# i5-2390T
I am NOT planning to install a separate graphics card. Both processors have a HD2000 integrated. The i5 is considerably more expensive.
Does anyone know whether the i3-2120T/HD2000 would do the job?
Thanks!
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I already have: 350W PSU, big tower, DVD-ROM, HDD
I also need: Motherboard, RAM, SSD?, CPU-Cooling (passive; positioned next to the PSU fan that is sucking air from inside the tower - hopefully that works)
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Yes, an i3 is more than fast enough for 1080p streams.
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I think it should be, unless the flash video was encoded with some super hardcore profile.
However, they hardly use any less power than the normal processors (and you can undervolt the normal ones too).
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1202-page6.html
I would just get the normal version i3-2100, possibly i3-2105.
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as a techie noob, i look at the "i3" and "1080p" and laugh.
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On September 18 2011 10:13 RaKooNs wrote:
as a techie noob, i look at the "i3" and "1080p" and laugh.
It gets a lot funnier You're integrated graphics card is slightly better than my old graphics card(see sig).+ Show Spoiler +
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Thanks for the fast answers.
And nice that I made a "techie noob" laugh - although I do not know how to exactly interpret this comment.
So the i3T will be good then :-)
Also thanks for the link. I guess you have a good point, but since I do not want to experiment with undervolting I will most likely decide for the i3-2120T.
I will search for a passive CPU cooler now. Looks like they all are shipped with a fan. So I can use this fan to replace the one in my PSU since it is not running smoothly anymore.
Can I use any big passive cooling block or are there big differences in cooling capability (materials...)? All the tests seem to be on the fans (or the fan/cooler combination) - at least for 1155 socket coolers.
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The i3-2120T is the right choice for you. The i5-2390T isn't an appreciable step up, the Pentium and Celeron Sandy Bridges don't save much money or power. The i3-2120T is just fine.
So I can use this fan to replace the one in my PSU since it is not running smoothly anymore.
Usually not. Fans are usually mounted inside PSUs, and can be tricky to replace. You need to make sure the fan has the correct dimensions, the correct plug, sufficient airflow, and the correct starting voltage. I've done it on my computer in the quest for quietness, but it's not something I'd recommend.
Can I use any big passive cooling block or are there big differences in cooling capability (materials...)?
If you have a case fan in your computer, I think just about any large heatsink would work without a dedicated fan on a 35W TDP CPU. Just make sure it's mounted so that the case fan sucks or blows air approximately through the fins of the heatsink.
If you don't have a case fan to provide airflow, you'll want to be more careful about looking for reviews where people have used heatsinks passively.
In either case, after the install, make sure to check your CPU temperatures while you do a CPU burn-in.
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The best place for info on shutting a PC build up is silentpcreview.com , those guys are nuts about it.
Passive cooling can be done fairly easily if your ambient temps are decent and your case has fair airflow. Just look into good silent fans, mount them with silicon grommets or a bead of silicon gasket maker to keep them from vibrating against the case, and presto.
Seeing as you aren't talking about huge amounts of CPU or GPU to get really hot, you'll do fine that way.
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Thanks for the new hints. Fortunately I was wrong about my PSU fan. It seems to be working correctly and the clicking noise comes from the (dying?) mainboard. Will test more tonight.
Here is a quick update on my plans so far:
# CPU: i3-2120T
# CPU-Cooler: ZALMAN CNPS10X Performa (without the fan)
# RAM: 2x 2GB Kingston HyperX LoVo DDR3-1600 KHX1600C9D3LK2/4GX
# Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO (unsure; never had an ASRock)
# SSD: TBD (by now I have no knowledge about SSDs)
The Thermalright Macho would be the perfect passive cooler (see this review http://www.guru3d.com/article/thermalright-hr02-review/7). But it is slightly too high for my case: 16cm like most other big coolers. The CNPS10X is 15.2cm and should barely fit.
Via internet search I found this comment on another forum: "Note that Clarkdale and Sandy Bridge integrated graphics chips cannot output at 23.976 Hz so all of your films will skip every 40 seconds or so. Only real solution is to get a separate GPU or go AMD."
Is that true? Will it be fixed with new drivers? Does it matter at all?
epic pic: http://extrahardware.cnews.cz/files/images/novinky/2011/03brezen/nofen_cr100/nof_cr100_01_instaled.jpg
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Dont misinterpret his request, he wants to show not stream at 1080p, that means he probably wants a htpc, or pc for his living room that can show streams at 1080p.
For that task the pc he is building is more than enough.
If he were to try streaming himself (playing the game and encoding and stuff) for sure that cpu wouldnt be enough, but since he only wants to view, he is golden.
If I were you I would go the AMD apu or fusion route, much more effective for the cost..
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5930 Posts
The whole 23.976 FPS thing is overblown. I doubt you'll notice it. It may matter if you play games on it but because you are watching video, you are not interacting with it. Its why 24 FPS video looks smooth while a constant 30 FPS game feels like your legs are deep in mud.
Passive cooling is easy. If you use a full height cooler, any Intel processor can be tamed so long as there is some incidental airflow. If you get a quiet rear fan that undervolts well, such as one of those white Nexus Real Silents, it can provide enough airflow to dissipate the heat while being completely inaudible from where you normally sit to watch TV. To undervolt, buy one of those 3 pin adapters that have a resistor on one of the cables, most brick and mortar computer stores should have a few lying around.
I wouldn't recommend using the PSU fan to cool the CPU cooler. Its ATX spec but because the heat produced by the CPU is going through the PSU components, it will likely cause the PSU fan to ramp right up.
Is there a reason why you need such a high end Z68 motherboard? A H67 does well enough, since you don't want to overclock this thing, and is significantly cheaper and still has SATA3. QuickSync is kind of cool but if you are not encoding videos, there isn't much point getting that feature.
If I where you I would go the apu or fusion route, much more effective for the cost..
Is it really? The FM1 boards are pretty pricey and those Llano processors have huge TDPs. If you want to game on integrated graphics, they would be the way to go but he's not really playing games. I dunno maybe they've released some really cheap A series processors and FM1 motherboards but during launch they were extremely pricey for what they offered.
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Is there a reason to get a i3 2120 over a i3 2100?
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Is there a good reason for not going with the much cheaper Celeron G530 or even G530T? They have the hardware video decoder in the integrated graphics... they have no problems with 1080p.
Here's the G620 (only slightly faster CPU frequency) during 1080p playback - very low power consumption (low CPU usage):
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium-g850-g840-g620_8.html
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Thanks for the input. No time to go on searching today. But here are some thoughts:
If I were you I would go the AMD apu or fusion route, much more effective for the cost.. My gut feeling says intel. Also I read some reviews on the AMD Fusion and it seems to be barely not fast enough for flash-1080p.
Actually 2k resolution would be nice, since this PC will be in use for some years.
The whole 23.976 FPS thing is overblown. Thanks. Thought so.
I wouldn't recommend using the PSU fan to cool the CPU cooler. Its ATX spec but because the heat produced by the CPU is going through the PSU components, it will likely cause the PSU fan to ramp right up. Good point. Never thought of that. Explains why on the internet I did not find a build that uses this approach. On the other hand the CPU is low temperature. So it might work. I will try. If it does not, I can still mount a CPU cooler fan. The PSU is a 350W be quiet! Straight Power E6 with a PWM 12cm fan. I have no idea how well the HD2000 will work with twitch.tv/youtube and what CPU load results. If the CPU is only slightly used, I could get away with 45°C.
Is there a reason why you need such a high end Z68 motherboard? Basically I did want the latest and greatest chipset. QuickSync is a nice bonus. Might use it from time to time.
Is there a reason to get a i3 2120 over a i3 2100? From my perspective it is just an updated version. Prices are on the same level. At least for the T version.
Is there a good reason for not going with the much cheaper Celeron G530 or even G530T? Interesting. I thought the Celeron was just the old name of the i3. The G530 is only a third of the i3-2120T moneywise. But it uses more power. I could not find a price for the G530T on the usual internet shops in Germany. Guess I will stick with the i3.
Currently I am thinking about two scenarios:
1) Put said configuration in my existing big tower -> in 1-2years: buy a new Atom-miniPC and place an i7 with a nice graphics card in the big tower.
2) By a HTPC case that suits my home theater AMP and leave the big tower untouched.
No research done on HTPC cases yet. Will have to be big enough for "passive" cooling. Are there any disadvantages with smaller mainboards and is ITX the small standard nowadays? Also: How good are integrated sound cards? Should I buy a new Soundblaster? Connection will be optical.
edit: typo
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Big rig with long water cooling setup that runs all the fans in another room.
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lol yeah!
I always wanted to put the computer in another room and drill a hole through the wall for the monitor cable. But water pipes have definitely more style :-)
In fact I was thinking about water cooling. But I guess the pump itself will make noise. And the running water could make noise too. Also it is complex and expensive. So I do not see a real benefit for a low power CPU.
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5930 Posts
Wow Soundblaster. Haven't heard that name for a long time. I'm preeeetty sure Creative still has terrible drivers. Anyway, integrated audio is fine but how are you going to connect your HTPC to your speakers? I'm assuming you have a A/V receiver that accepts optical or HDMI inputs?
"Passive" cooling can only be done with huge tower chassis because the 1kg heatsinks laugh at <65W TDP processors. Anyway, you underestimate the performance of aftermarket coolers and how light weight modern Intel processors are. A fairly decent Scythe or Thermalright low profile cooler with a slow spinning fan will keep the processor cool while making close to no noise. Passive cooling is cool but if a slow spinning fan is inaudible, does it matter that the computer isn't passive?
mITX is pretty fine so long you don't overclock. The cases will not be able to accept full height tower coolers and they're hardly small and the cheaper ones generally don't accept full sized ATX power supplies, however. Whether you want to dump everything into the huge tower or buy a new HTPC case if your choice at the end of the day.
Just a suggestion but if the total of your build gets around $600, I say just get a Mac Mini. While it doesn't have a blu-ray or DVD drive, its lightweight enough to be powered through a power brick, has a pretty beastly processor for a computer that small, and its dead silent. RAM and hard disks are self replaceable so upgrade routes aren't that bad.
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If you're sending out the audio via S/PDIF (or coax optical or HDMI) and the motherboard already has that, a dedicated sound card would be super useless unless maybe there are some funky DSP features you want to use.
The Celeron G530 does not use more power than the i3-2120T btw. Forget the listed TDP--Intel's just marketing some BS. However, if you want Quick Sync, more video decode features, or just higher performance, the i3-2120T would be better.
I agree with respect to effectively silent non-passive cooling. Unless your ear is next to it, you're not going to hear a quality 12cm fan running at 800rpm (or slower). Passive cooling is just more expensive for little benefit.
If you're going small form factor, you may want to think about a PicoPSU (DC-DC power supply that takes input from a laptop-like passive power brick), since those are effectively silent and reliable. Despite what I said above, power supply fan is pretty much the only one you have no control over, so going passive there is a decent choice if you can't find a decent power supply with a good silent profile fan.
http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-120-power-kit
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On September 20 2011 22:40 Myrmidon wrote:If you're sending out the audio via S/PDIF (or coax optical or HDMI) and the motherboard already has that, a dedicated sound card would be super useless unless maybe there are some funky DSP features you want to use. The Celeron G530 does not use more power than the i3-2120T btw. Forget the listed TDP--Intel's just marketing some BS. However, if you want Quick Sync, more video decode features, or just higher performance, the i3-2120T would be better. I agree with respect to effectively silent non-passive cooling. Unless your ear is next to it, you're not going to hear a quality 12cm fan running at 800rpm (or slower). Passive cooling is just more expensive for little benefit. If you're going small form factor, you may want to think about a PicoPSU (DC-DC power supply that takes input from a laptop-like passive power brick), since those are effectively silent and reliable. Despite what I said above, power supply fan is pretty much the only one you have no control over, so going passive there is a decent choice if you can't find a decent power supply with a good silent profile fan. http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-120-power-kit
Listen to this man.
I put together a G620T system that wasn't planned for silence.
It had a PSU fan, case fan and stock PCU heatsink+fan.
It was not noisy, but it was audible when I was sleeping (1m away from it). Never when I was actually watching things.
I got a 150w PicoPSU because the PSU fan was the loudest component, and unplugged the chassis fan, meaning the CPU fan is the only fan working, and it's the stock fan so it's not silent but it's not too loud (capped to ~40% speed).
The loudest thing most of the time is now the HDDs, but before it was definitely the PSU.
Now, a PicoPSU is never going to pay for itself savings wise (I went from ~40w idle to ~25w idle or thereabouts from my old 250w PSU to a 150w PicoPSU), but it's the easiest way to get a suitable silent PSU (and they are obviously quite small which is nice for a small build).
If (@ OP) you really want silent, you will need to consider your harddrives once you make everything else super quiet.
If silence isn't an issue, a low power system wont need too much cooling anyway and if you are watching/listening then noise won't be much of an issue.
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EPT
