|
CURRENT STATUS: ALL DONE! Celeron G530 is playing 1080p silently. Thanks guys!
List of components: + Show Spoiler +# CPU: Intel Celeron G530
# CPU cooler: Zalman CNPS10X Performa (15.2cm high)
# CPU fan: Noctua NF-S12B ULN (12cm)
# Mainboard: ASUS P8H67-V R.3.0
# RAM: Kingston KHX1600C9D3LK2/4GX
# PSU: picoPSU-150-XT + 150W Adapter Power Kit
# SSD: Crucial m4
# Dedicated graphics card: None
# Dedivated sound card: None (A/V-Reveiver connected optically)
# Case: Cooler Master Silencio 550 (CPU cooler barely fits; most coolers are too big)
# Wireless keyboard: Microsoft Arc (black)
# Wireless mouse: Logitech M505
# DVD-Drive: External (with external power)
Bondator added his build with an i3 2100T and passively cooled graphics card inside a HTPC case.
-------------------------------------------------------
original post:
Hey guys!
I will be assembling a PC to connect to my TV.
Main objective: Show Starcraft 2 streams in 1080p with flash (twitch.tv etc.) without framedrop!
Secondary objective: Be silent!
First I was thinking about intelAtom/nvidiaION or AMDfuzion. Both are not fast enough (based on internet research).
So it will be a regular intel processor. But with a T at the end of the name.
These models seem interesting due to low power/temperature (35W, max65°C):
# i3-2120T
# i5-2390T
I am NOT planning to install a separate graphics card. Both processors have a HD2000 integrated. The i5 is considerably more expensive.
Does anyone know whether the i3-2120T/HD2000 would do the job?
Thanks!
---
I already have: 350W PSU, big tower, DVD-ROM, HDD
I also need: Motherboard, RAM, SSD?, CPU-Cooling (passive; positioned next to the PSU fan that is sucking air from inside the tower - hopefully that works)
|
Yes, an i3 is more than fast enough for 1080p streams.
|
I think it should be, unless the flash video was encoded with some super hardcore profile.
However, they hardly use any less power than the normal processors (and you can undervolt the normal ones too).
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1202-page6.html
I would just get the normal version i3-2100, possibly i3-2105.
|
as a techie noob, i look at the "i3" and "1080p" and laugh.
|
On September 18 2011 10:13 RaKooNs wrote:
as a techie noob, i look at the "i3" and "1080p" and laugh.
It gets a lot funnier You're integrated graphics card is slightly better than my old graphics card(see sig).+ Show Spoiler +
|
Thanks for the fast answers.
And nice that I made a "techie noob" laugh - although I do not know how to exactly interpret this comment.
So the i3T will be good then :-)
Also thanks for the link. I guess you have a good point, but since I do not want to experiment with undervolting I will most likely decide for the i3-2120T.
I will search for a passive CPU cooler now. Looks like they all are shipped with a fan. So I can use this fan to replace the one in my PSU since it is not running smoothly anymore.
Can I use any big passive cooling block or are there big differences in cooling capability (materials...)? All the tests seem to be on the fans (or the fan/cooler combination) - at least for 1155 socket coolers.
|
The i3-2120T is the right choice for you. The i5-2390T isn't an appreciable step up, the Pentium and Celeron Sandy Bridges don't save much money or power. The i3-2120T is just fine.
So I can use this fan to replace the one in my PSU since it is not running smoothly anymore.
Usually not. Fans are usually mounted inside PSUs, and can be tricky to replace. You need to make sure the fan has the correct dimensions, the correct plug, sufficient airflow, and the correct starting voltage. I've done it on my computer in the quest for quietness, but it's not something I'd recommend.
Can I use any big passive cooling block or are there big differences in cooling capability (materials...)?
If you have a case fan in your computer, I think just about any large heatsink would work without a dedicated fan on a 35W TDP CPU. Just make sure it's mounted so that the case fan sucks or blows air approximately through the fins of the heatsink.
If you don't have a case fan to provide airflow, you'll want to be more careful about looking for reviews where people have used heatsinks passively.
In either case, after the install, make sure to check your CPU temperatures while you do a CPU burn-in.
|
The best place for info on shutting a PC build up is silentpcreview.com , those guys are nuts about it.
Passive cooling can be done fairly easily if your ambient temps are decent and your case has fair airflow. Just look into good silent fans, mount them with silicon grommets or a bead of silicon gasket maker to keep them from vibrating against the case, and presto.
Seeing as you aren't talking about huge amounts of CPU or GPU to get really hot, you'll do fine that way.
|
Thanks for the new hints. Fortunately I was wrong about my PSU fan. It seems to be working correctly and the clicking noise comes from the (dying?) mainboard. Will test more tonight.
Here is a quick update on my plans so far:
# CPU: i3-2120T
# CPU-Cooler: ZALMAN CNPS10X Performa (without the fan)
# RAM: 2x 2GB Kingston HyperX LoVo DDR3-1600 KHX1600C9D3LK2/4GX
# Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO (unsure; never had an ASRock)
# SSD: TBD (by now I have no knowledge about SSDs)
The Thermalright Macho would be the perfect passive cooler (see this review http://www.guru3d.com/article/thermalright-hr02-review/7). But it is slightly too high for my case: 16cm like most other big coolers. The CNPS10X is 15.2cm and should barely fit.
Via internet search I found this comment on another forum: "Note that Clarkdale and Sandy Bridge integrated graphics chips cannot output at 23.976 Hz so all of your films will skip every 40 seconds or so. Only real solution is to get a separate GPU or go AMD."
Is that true? Will it be fixed with new drivers? Does it matter at all?
epic pic: http://extrahardware.cnews.cz/files/images/novinky/2011/03brezen/nofen_cr100/nof_cr100_01_instaled.jpg
|
Dont misinterpret his request, he wants to show not stream at 1080p, that means he probably wants a htpc, or pc for his living room that can show streams at 1080p.
For that task the pc he is building is more than enough.
If he were to try streaming himself (playing the game and encoding and stuff) for sure that cpu wouldnt be enough, but since he only wants to view, he is golden.
If I were you I would go the AMD apu or fusion route, much more effective for the cost..
|
5930 Posts
The whole 23.976 FPS thing is overblown. I doubt you'll notice it. It may matter if you play games on it but because you are watching video, you are not interacting with it. Its why 24 FPS video looks smooth while a constant 30 FPS game feels like your legs are deep in mud.
Passive cooling is easy. If you use a full height cooler, any Intel processor can be tamed so long as there is some incidental airflow. If you get a quiet rear fan that undervolts well, such as one of those white Nexus Real Silents, it can provide enough airflow to dissipate the heat while being completely inaudible from where you normally sit to watch TV. To undervolt, buy one of those 3 pin adapters that have a resistor on one of the cables, most brick and mortar computer stores should have a few lying around.
I wouldn't recommend using the PSU fan to cool the CPU cooler. Its ATX spec but because the heat produced by the CPU is going through the PSU components, it will likely cause the PSU fan to ramp right up.
Is there a reason why you need such a high end Z68 motherboard? A H67 does well enough, since you don't want to overclock this thing, and is significantly cheaper and still has SATA3. QuickSync is kind of cool but if you are not encoding videos, there isn't much point getting that feature.
If I where you I would go the apu or fusion route, much more effective for the cost..
Is it really? The FM1 boards are pretty pricey and those Llano processors have huge TDPs. If you want to game on integrated graphics, they would be the way to go but he's not really playing games. I dunno maybe they've released some really cheap A series processors and FM1 motherboards but during launch they were extremely pricey for what they offered.
|
Is there a reason to get a i3 2120 over a i3 2100?
|
|
|
Is there a good reason for not going with the much cheaper Celeron G530 or even G530T? They have the hardware video decoder in the integrated graphics... they have no problems with 1080p.
Here's the G620 (only slightly faster CPU frequency) during 1080p playback - very low power consumption (low CPU usage):
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium-g850-g840-g620_8.html
|
Thanks for the input. No time to go on searching today. But here are some thoughts:
If I were you I would go the AMD apu or fusion route, much more effective for the cost.. My gut feeling says intel. Also I read some reviews on the AMD Fusion and it seems to be barely not fast enough for flash-1080p.
Actually 2k resolution would be nice, since this PC will be in use for some years.
The whole 23.976 FPS thing is overblown. Thanks. Thought so.
I wouldn't recommend using the PSU fan to cool the CPU cooler. Its ATX spec but because the heat produced by the CPU is going through the PSU components, it will likely cause the PSU fan to ramp right up. Good point. Never thought of that. Explains why on the internet I did not find a build that uses this approach. On the other hand the CPU is low temperature. So it might work. I will try. If it does not, I can still mount a CPU cooler fan. The PSU is a 350W be quiet! Straight Power E6 with a PWM 12cm fan. I have no idea how well the HD2000 will work with twitch.tv/youtube and what CPU load results. If the CPU is only slightly used, I could get away with 45°C.
Is there a reason why you need such a high end Z68 motherboard? Basically I did want the latest and greatest chipset. QuickSync is a nice bonus. Might use it from time to time.
Is there a reason to get a i3 2120 over a i3 2100? From my perspective it is just an updated version. Prices are on the same level. At least for the T version.
Is there a good reason for not going with the much cheaper Celeron G530 or even G530T? Interesting. I thought the Celeron was just the old name of the i3. The G530 is only a third of the i3-2120T moneywise. But it uses more power. I could not find a price for the G530T on the usual internet shops in Germany. Guess I will stick with the i3.
Currently I am thinking about two scenarios:
1) Put said configuration in my existing big tower -> in 1-2years: buy a new Atom-miniPC and place an i7 with a nice graphics card in the big tower.
2) By a HTPC case that suits my home theater AMP and leave the big tower untouched.
No research done on HTPC cases yet. Will have to be big enough for "passive" cooling. Are there any disadvantages with smaller mainboards and is ITX the small standard nowadays? Also: How good are integrated sound cards? Should I buy a new Soundblaster? Connection will be optical.
edit: typo
|
Big rig with long water cooling setup that runs all the fans in another room.
|
lol yeah!
I always wanted to put the computer in another room and drill a hole through the wall for the monitor cable. But water pipes have definitely more style :-)
In fact I was thinking about water cooling. But I guess the pump itself will make noise. And the running water could make noise too. Also it is complex and expensive. So I do not see a real benefit for a low power CPU.
|
5930 Posts
Wow Soundblaster. Haven't heard that name for a long time. I'm preeeetty sure Creative still has terrible drivers. Anyway, integrated audio is fine but how are you going to connect your HTPC to your speakers? I'm assuming you have a A/V receiver that accepts optical or HDMI inputs?
"Passive" cooling can only be done with huge tower chassis because the 1kg heatsinks laugh at <65W TDP processors. Anyway, you underestimate the performance of aftermarket coolers and how light weight modern Intel processors are. A fairly decent Scythe or Thermalright low profile cooler with a slow spinning fan will keep the processor cool while making close to no noise. Passive cooling is cool but if a slow spinning fan is inaudible, does it matter that the computer isn't passive?
mITX is pretty fine so long you don't overclock. The cases will not be able to accept full height tower coolers and they're hardly small and the cheaper ones generally don't accept full sized ATX power supplies, however. Whether you want to dump everything into the huge tower or buy a new HTPC case if your choice at the end of the day.
Just a suggestion but if the total of your build gets around $600, I say just get a Mac Mini. While it doesn't have a blu-ray or DVD drive, its lightweight enough to be powered through a power brick, has a pretty beastly processor for a computer that small, and its dead silent. RAM and hard disks are self replaceable so upgrade routes aren't that bad.
|
If you're sending out the audio via S/PDIF (or coax optical or HDMI) and the motherboard already has that, a dedicated sound card would be super useless unless maybe there are some funky DSP features you want to use.
The Celeron G530 does not use more power than the i3-2120T btw. Forget the listed TDP--Intel's just marketing some BS. However, if you want Quick Sync, more video decode features, or just higher performance, the i3-2120T would be better.
I agree with respect to effectively silent non-passive cooling. Unless your ear is next to it, you're not going to hear a quality 12cm fan running at 800rpm (or slower). Passive cooling is just more expensive for little benefit.
If you're going small form factor, you may want to think about a PicoPSU (DC-DC power supply that takes input from a laptop-like passive power brick), since those are effectively silent and reliable. Despite what I said above, power supply fan is pretty much the only one you have no control over, so going passive there is a decent choice if you can't find a decent power supply with a good silent profile fan.
http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-120-power-kit
|
On September 20 2011 22:40 Myrmidon wrote:If you're sending out the audio via S/PDIF (or coax optical or HDMI) and the motherboard already has that, a dedicated sound card would be super useless unless maybe there are some funky DSP features you want to use. The Celeron G530 does not use more power than the i3-2120T btw. Forget the listed TDP--Intel's just marketing some BS. However, if you want Quick Sync, more video decode features, or just higher performance, the i3-2120T would be better. I agree with respect to effectively silent non-passive cooling. Unless your ear is next to it, you're not going to hear a quality 12cm fan running at 800rpm (or slower). Passive cooling is just more expensive for little benefit. If you're going small form factor, you may want to think about a PicoPSU (DC-DC power supply that takes input from a laptop-like passive power brick), since those are effectively silent and reliable. Despite what I said above, power supply fan is pretty much the only one you have no control over, so going passive there is a decent choice if you can't find a decent power supply with a good silent profile fan. http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-120-power-kit
Listen to this man.
I put together a G620T system that wasn't planned for silence.
It had a PSU fan, case fan and stock PCU heatsink+fan.
It was not noisy, but it was audible when I was sleeping (1m away from it). Never when I was actually watching things.
I got a 150w PicoPSU because the PSU fan was the loudest component, and unplugged the chassis fan, meaning the CPU fan is the only fan working, and it's the stock fan so it's not silent but it's not too loud (capped to ~40% speed).
The loudest thing most of the time is now the HDDs, but before it was definitely the PSU.
Now, a PicoPSU is never going to pay for itself savings wise (I went from ~40w idle to ~25w idle or thereabouts from my old 250w PSU to a 150w PicoPSU), but it's the easiest way to get a suitable silent PSU (and they are obviously quite small which is nice for a small build).
If (@ OP) you really want silent, you will need to consider your harddrives once you make everything else super quiet.
If silence isn't an issue, a low power system wont need too much cooling anyway and if you are watching/listening then noise won't be much of an issue.
|
your biggest concern will be your bandwidth speed to support the 1080 streaming. your hardware should be fine.
|
On September 20 2011 23:01 Lonyo wrote:
If (@ OP) you really want silent, you will need to consider your harddrives once you make everything else super quiet.
If silence isn't an issue, a low power system wont need too much cooling anyway and if you are watching/listening then noise won't be much of an issue.
How is an HDD relevant when watching streams?
|
On September 21 2011 00:06 CharlieBrownsc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:01 Lonyo wrote:
If (@ OP) you really want silent, you will need to consider your harddrives once you make everything else super quiet.
If silence isn't an issue, a low power system wont need too much cooling anyway and if you are watching/listening then noise won't be much of an issue. How is an HDD relevant when watching streams?
Hard drive noise. It's got to be spinning to run the OS and all.
Depending on the model of the old hard drive (if it's an old 3.5" 7200rpm hard drive, can easily be the noisiest thing in the system by far), I'd seriously consider getting an SSD if the rest of the system is quiet.
|
On September 21 2011 00:09 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 00:06 CharlieBrownsc wrote:On September 20 2011 23:01 Lonyo wrote:
If (@ OP) you really want silent, you will need to consider your harddrives once you make everything else super quiet.
If silence isn't an issue, a low power system wont need too much cooling anyway and if you are watching/listening then noise won't be much of an issue. How is an HDD relevant when watching streams? Hard drive noise. It's got to be spinning to run the OS and all. Depending on the model of the old hard drive (if it's an old 3.5" 7200rpm hard drive, can easily be the noisiest thing in the system by far), I'd seriously consider getting an SSD if the rest of the system is quiet.
Does the OS not load completely on the RAM?
|
On September 21 2011 01:06 CharlieBrownsc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 00:09 Myrmidon wrote:On September 21 2011 00:06 CharlieBrownsc wrote:On September 20 2011 23:01 Lonyo wrote:
If (@ OP) you really want silent, you will need to consider your harddrives once you make everything else super quiet.
If silence isn't an issue, a low power system wont need too much cooling anyway and if you are watching/listening then noise won't be much of an issue. How is an HDD relevant when watching streams? Hard drive noise. It's got to be spinning to run the OS and all. Depending on the model of the old hard drive (if it's an old 3.5" 7200rpm hard drive, can easily be the noisiest thing in the system by far), I'd seriously consider getting an SSD if the rest of the system is quiet. Does the OS not load completely on the RAM?
You can set the HDD spindown time to be very low (e.g. 3 minutes) and it will turn off under most idle loads. If you are doing other things at the same time it might not power down though.
|
Deciding on a SSD was easy - especially after reading this new thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267596
It will be a Crucial M4 128GB. I am hoping for faster OS boot time, faster application boot time and most importantly for no HDD clicking noise while accessing the drive.
Soundcard:
The connection will be optical S/PDIF. So an internal card on the mainboard should do well. DSP features are not what I am looking for. The only thing it will have to do is converting the mp3/flac/... into an optical signal. Gigabyte is using a Soundblaster onboard. So this is more a marketing thing? Are there any alternatives to Soundblaster since Terratec is not researching sound cards anymore?
Celeron G530:
I think I will stay on the safe side with the i3-2120T. But the price...
Passive Cooling:
Thanks for the advice with the low profile aftermarket cooler/fan. Didn't think it could be sufficient.
Also thanks for the link to the passive power supply. Sounds excellent. @Lonyo: How can you measure the power/watts? Did you use a specific instrument or did your computer tell you?
Mac Mini:
Interesting. Since Apple computers are normal intel PCs it should be an alternative. But I would definitely install Linux and Windows :-)
Case:
There are surprisingly many HTPC cases. That will be the next thing I will research. From a first look the price range seems to be €80-€600. So €80-€300 should be more reasonable. I will start at the low end.
In the Computer Build Resource Thread ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137554 ) Silverstone, Antec, Corsair, Cooler Master and Lian Li are recommended for cases. How much money do you think a good case should cost?
|
5930 Posts
Wait Gigabyte uses Soundblaster? I thought they'd be using Realtek integrated audio like they've always done. Anyway, it doesn't really matter but Creative discrete soundcards aren't really well respected these days since everyone bitches about their driver support.
From my experience, the Antec NSK2480B is a really good mATX HTPC case but its also pretty large for one. Also comes with a 380W PSU and if you pair it with a light powered system, I doubt you would really hear it outside Antec's dedicated PSU chamber. You've kind of danced around this but never really specified the max size of your system so I'm not sure what to suggest.
Lian Li has some really cute mITX cases, like the Lian Li PC-Q11, but they are not cheap and they are aluminium so sound dampening is a bit harder. Of course, if you only have a slow spinning 140mm fan in there, it doesn't matter if it doesn't have really good sound dampening. Plus, if you use a PicoPSU, you can probably cram a shorter tower cooler in there like the Gelid Tranquillo or Scythe Ninja.
I wouldn't spend more than $150 on the chassis. This budget takes into account any cases with premium aesthetic qualities like those Lian Li cases. If you choose to buy a Lian Li case, buy some steel thumbscrews while you are at it because Lian Li, in their infinite wisdom, decided it would be a good idea to use aluminium screws for the side panels.
|
On September 22 2011 16:09 propulsion wrote:
Celeron G530:
I think I will stay on the safe side with the i3-2120T. But the price...
I'm not sure why people think that i3 is "safer".
The G530 has the same HD graphics (the Celeron has some features that are irrelevant to you disabled, such as QuickSync - you would need a Z68 mobo for that anyway)
It has essentially the same clock speed.
It's less than half the price.
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Edit: Further reading
+ Show Spoiler +The "HD Graphics" in Celerons and Pentiums is almost the same as the HD 2000 Graphics in the core i3's and up as proven by Anandtech hereThe only thing you might care about is that the HD2000 does post-video processing (the decoder for playback is still there in the Celeron and Pentium), but if you really want additional post-processing, I'd rather get a $50 celeron +$30 discrete GPU(which will have way more capabilities and more customizable) than a $120 CPU. Here's AnandTech's summary: + Show Spoiler +Where the vanilla HD Graphics loses is in video features: Quick Sync, InTru 3D (Blu-ray 3D), Intel Insider (DRM support for web streaming of high bitrate HD video) and Clear Video HD (GPU accelerated post processing) are all gone. Thankfully you do still get hardware H.264 video acceleration and fully audio bitstreaming support (including TrueHD/DTS-HD MA).
Missing Quick Sync is a major blow, although as I mentioned earlier I'm very disappointed in the poor support for the feature outside of the initial launch applications. The rest of the features vary in importance. To someone building a basic HTPC, a Sandy Bridge Pentium will do just fine. Personally I never play anything in 3D, never use the Clear Video HD features and never use Intel Insider so I wouldn't notice the difference between a Sandy Bridge Pentium and a Core i5 for video playback.
|
Hey guys,
I'm back on the matter. Thanks for your help so far. Here is what I made out of it:
# CPU: Intel i3-2120T
# CPU-cooler/fan: Zalman CNPS10X Performa
# Mainboard: ASUS P8H67-V R.3.0
# RAM: Kingston KHX1600C9D3LK2/4GX
# SSD: Crucial m4
Remarks: + Show Spoiler +# I chose the i3-2120T over the Celeron G530 because it is much faster according to http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php (3529 > 2330), though the G530 should handle 1080p fine an uses also only 35W. # The CPU-Cooler is the biggest that fits into my case. # If it is not silent enough, I will buy a picoPSU. # I will not buy a HTPC case. It would have to be 43cm wide, but I could not find one to my liking. The good looking ones are not tall enough for big fans/coolers. # Future plans: Replace this PC with a 43cm-wide-HTPC with picoPSU based on the next generation Atom/ION (or later) and upgrade this PC with a better CPU/GPU. # I took your advice and chose the H67 chipset. # If I am not fine with the sound I will upgrade to an ESI MAYA44 XTe or E-MU 1212M PCIe. Cheeper soundcards should not improve quality of the optical output (based on forum readings).
If you think I can do better, please tell me. Or just give me an "it's ok".
|
|
|
Thanks for your very fast reply.
I am german, so I cannot buy at newegg. geizhals.at/deutschland is a very good price comparison around here. To lower the shipping costs I will buy everything at avitos.com since they do have very good prices.
Currently I am having problems with my mainboard. That is why I do want a high quality one. I did find an ASRock and an ASUS. The ASRock has the slightly better soundcard (should not be audible) and is ~7EUR cheeper. I will still buy the ASUS because of the even better name.
I did choose these RAM sticks a week ago or so and do not remember my exact thinking process. The same sticks with 1333 are more expensive. Generally you are right, but I want the low voltage ones. I am still hoping to be able to only use one active fan (the one of the PSU) and hope the low voltage RAM can take the heat better (based on uninformed gut feeling). And it will cut my german electricity costs ;-)
I will not only use the PC for stream viewing. But that is the main purpose. While running 1-2 streams I will surf the internet and work on some documents (yes, on a TV). That is why I want two cores. More power can't hurt also.
|
|
|
Thanks for the links. Will read it. From a first look: The i3-2120T is faster, but not fast enough to justify the price - in case I do not really need the speed and HD2000. I am not completely sure, but it looks like I do not need it.
There is a "Pentium G630T Low-Power" for 65EUR. Might that be the silver bullet? Well... cpubenchmark.net lists it at the same same speed as the Celeron G530. Do you have more specific infos?
|
The "low power" version with the lower listed TDP is the same exact chip, just configured with a different default voltage and operating frequency (including during Turbo Boost). It's nothing magic and certainly doesn't decrease power consumption by as much as one might expect if reading the TDP values literally.
edit: that's referring to i3-xxxT vs. normal i3, or something similar. Low-power Pentium has a little more cache and more features (I forget what, but it wasn't much) compared to the Celeron.
Actually the main advantage of the lower TDP versions is that they're just guaranteed to run at a certain (slightly lower) power level and come with a slimmer heatsink. You're not even using their heatsink, and your application doesn't require strict adherence to a certain power level.
CNPS10X Performa is overkill, and your old power supply is probably going to be the noisiest component. You can always tweak fan settings (well on most motherboards it works fine), but wouldn't you want like the CNPS10X Quiet or some other cooler targeted at low noise instead? Then again, you may even be able to get away with running the heatsink passively if it's that large...
edit2: if you're using optical out for audio, then yes what you've read is pretty much right.
|
I wouldnt worry too much about the noise if its an actual htpc and its underneath your tv a good 5m away. Devices like ps3 and 360s are much much louder than my htpc which is an antec fusion max with default fans at low speed and an aywun v8 cooler. Also starcraft streams arent exactly famous for their crisp audio so >.>
|
Oh right. I wanted the CNPS10X Quiet. But is is not availably / much more expensive. So I will try the Performa without fan or with running the fan very slowly. The PSU fan is next to the CPU-Cooler sucking the air into the PSU - so it might work if it does not turn up the speed because of the additional heat. If it does not work, I will buy a very good quiet fan for the CPU-cooler. The PSU has a big quiet fan. If that does not help there is always the picoPSU.
I will use an optical cable because I do not want to worry about ground loops. Since the coax digital connection does not need to convert the signal into light, it should have slightly less jitter, but I don't think I can hear that.
@T0fuuu Thanks, but when it gets late I turn down the sound level pretty much and fan noise generally annoys me.
Does this Hyper Threading make a difference?
|
I still do not know what CPU speed I really need. But here is a bit more thinking:
Why not buy the Celeron G530 now for a great price and upgrade to a hopefully even less power consuming and faster Ivy Bridge CPU next year?
...since the Celeron G530 without dedicated GPU will be enough to view 1080p streams. Right?
|
I just ordered!
# CPU: Intel Celeron G530
# CPU-cooler/fan: Zalman CNPS10X Performa
# Mainboard: ASUS P8H67-V R.3.0
# RAM: Kingston KHX1600C9D3LK2/4GX
# SSD: Crucial m4
Finally the G530 made it.
Thanks again to all of you for your valuable input.
|
Be sure to let us know how the 1080p stream watching goes. Also comments about noise and whatnot, if you have any reservations about anything once the parts come in.
|
|
|
Just as a "reassuring" example:
On my laptop with an i5-2520M with HT disabled and limited to 60% CPU speed (via Windows power plan, to save battery power), it goes up to I think 1.6GHz maximum and has NO issue whatsoever playing any 1080p stream I could think of loading. It's using the HD graphics, of course.
|
bobcat is better for watching in hd.
|
The good news: The components are here and I did put them into the mainboard.
The bad news: The CPU-cooler is slightly too high for my old case.
=> I do need a new case!
It should be upgradeable with a fast CPU and a fast graphics card in a year or two ...and still be quiet. And of course this time the new 15.2cm CPU-cooler has to fit in.
I can get this one at a computer shop nearby for a good price:
Cooler Master Silencio 550 (RC-550-KKN1)
I definitely do like the look!
What do you think? Any objections?
In this new case the CPU-cooler will not be close to the PSU fan anymore, since its PSU is at the bottom. First I will test my old PSU in combination with the case fan(s). If it is too loud I will order a picoPSU.
@Wabbit: Thanks for the reassurance that it will play 1080p streams :-)
|
Silencio 550 is okay. As you can see, cooling performance is not great, and it's not the quietest case ever, but it is not bad. SPCR review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/cm-silencio550
In fact one of the main complaints is that the max CPU cooler height is claimed to be only 154mm (in reality, the space is larger, but the foam gets in the way), where many popular 120mm fan tower coolers are around 159mm. So with the Zalman, that is no problem. If the price is good, I would buy it.
|
Thanks. But that the cooling performance is not great is not really ok (did not yet read the linked review).
Do you have a recommendation?
|
Yes but your system produces maybe less than half as much heat as their IGP test setup, never mind the CPU + HD 4870 setup. I don't think it matters that a high-end video card would run a little hot with the out-of-box configuration, since all you have to cool is the CPU + drives.
Actually maybe it would be a good idea to run the power supply with the fan facing inwards as possibly that's quieter? It's not like the inside should be any warm.
To be honest, I'd most worry about an old 350W power supply having cables that are long enough for such a case, with a bottom-mounted orientation.
|
Good point. I checked it. The cables are long enough.
"Current" is maybe a better word than "old". It is a "350W be quiet! Straight Power E6" http://www.be-quiet.net/be-quiet.net/index.php?StoryID=31&ProductID=84&websiteLang=en
No cable management, but a 12cm fan sitting inside and blowing threw the PSU out of the case.
Maybe I can turn off the PSU fan? Just an idea... probably not a good one. But I could test (feel with my hand) whether there is still airflow coming out of the PSU.
(still need to read the review)
|
Finally did read the review: My only concern is the "clicking of the Silencio's stock fans". But if I am lucky they read the test and changed them.
Otherwise I could replace them.
You are right. I do not need extensive cooling power. When I will upgrade the system with faster components, I do expect them to produce less temperature than todays fast CPUs. So it should not be a problem. Silence is paramount and that case seems to deliver.
I actually do like your idea to reverse the PSU fan direction and blow air into the case. But I would lose the warranty if I do open the PSU.
|
Well, I meant to flip the PSU, not the fan, so it's intaking from inside the case rather than from outside. That way the fan is more isolated from the outside. I'm not even sure if that would make a difference. The low-end Be Quiet! units are apparently not that good, just mediocre stuff from HEC or FSP. The low-end units are not even that quiet. The high-end units tend to be efficient and very quiet, using Be Quiet! fans, but still don't have very good performance.
I think you have to keep the clicking in perspective, since even with that included, it's only about 3 dBA higher at 1m than the anechoic chamber's noise floor of 11 dBA. I mean, with the same test setup, the Lancool K59 stock fans alone at the same distance register 31 dBA at 1m. Clicking that registers at 14 dBA is probably going to get drowned out by the power supply fan or ambient noise, or maybe the heatsink fan if that one doesn't slow down enough with your fan speed control.
|
Now that I found out that there are vents at the bottom of the case I understand what you mean. I thought I would have to flip it anyways. In my current big tower the PSU is positioned in the middle and taking the air from next to the CPU cooler.
Most likely I will test both orientations, but am pretty sure not using the vents and taking the air from inside will be more quiet.
My current favorite: No front fan, no rear fan, no PSU fan, PSU flipped. Just the CPU fan that is blowing air threw the CPU cooler towards the rear vents and will hopefully pull enough air threw the PSU to keep that cool too. I keep you posted.
I heard about the poor low-end-be-quiet quality long after I bought it. For me it still was an improvement, since before I had one with a much smaller and louder fan.
The case fans are non PWM - might slow them with resistors or replace them. Since hearing is very subjective I might not hear the clicking.
(bought the Silencio 550; will install after IPL; case looks gorgeous)
|
I can happily confirm that with the intel Celeron G530 (without dedicated graphics card) stream watching work great!
Multiple twitch.tv 1080p streams at the same time are no problem. Watching youtube in 1080p without preloading also works fine. That could change with higher bandwidth (less compressed video), but currently the CPU only needs to run at 30% during stream watching.
Since everything is so quiet now, the PSU became the next problem. Its fan is audible and it makes static/electric noises that have been annoying even in the old build. So yeah, this low end be-quiet PSU is really not that good - or it had to deal with the high temperature from the old CPU for too long.
=> I did order a 150W-picoPSU!
This one: http://www.amazon.de/picoPSU-150-XT-externes-Effizienz-peripheral-extension/dp/B004BEBFVY/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1318386771&sr=8-4
Problem: My Mainboard demands for a 24pin and an 8pin connector!
Can I safely use the adapter cable on the 12V-DV to convert it to a 4pin and combine it with the other 4pin into an 8pin?
(also ordered a better 12cm fan for the CPU; I do not expect to need the case fans)
(tomorrow I write more about temperatures)
|
The picoPSU was shipped some days ago and works perfectly.
Today the new fan finally has arrived and the build is now completed.
Everything works flawlessly!
Stream watching works as good as it possibly can and the computer makes no noise.
And I mean NO noise. The new 12cm Noctua NF-S12B fan is attached to the CPU cooler and running at 550RPM. While watching 1080p+ the temperature of one core is ~40°C, of the other ~33°C. CPU usage is ~20%. Maximum temperature for this CPU is 69.1°C. No case fans are necessary. If Speedfan would not tell me that it is running, I would not believe it. Originally I wanted a switch to turn off the fan while listening to music, but there is no need for it.
Thanks again guys for all your valuable advice. I posted here on tl just to find out whether the i3 can play SC2 streams but got much more. TeamLiquid.net really is a great community!
Special thanks to Wabbit and Shikyo for convincing me that the Celeron G530 is sufficient, to Myrmidon and Lonyo for bringing up the picoPSU and to Womwomwom for telling me that I was about to buy a mainboard I would not really need.
Here is the complete list of components: + Show Spoiler +# CPU: Intel Celeron G530
# CPU cooler: Zalman CNPS10X Performa (15.2cm high)
# CPU fan: Noctua NF-S12B ULN (12cm)
# Mainboard: ASUS P8H67-V R.3.0
# RAM: Kingston KHX1600C9D3LK2/4GX
# PSU: picoPSU-150-XT + 150W Adapter Power Kit
# SSD: Crucial m4
# Dedicated graphics card: None
# Dedivated sound card: None (A/V-Reveiver connected optically)
# Case: Cooler Master Silencio 550 (CPU cooler barely fits; most coolers are too big)
# Wireless keyboard: Microsoft Arc (black)
# Wireless mouse: Logitech M505
# DVD-Drive: External (with external power)
I am pretty sure that this is the best silent HTPC you can build right now.
In 1-2 years I will replace it with an Atom/ION and a case that fits my A/V-Reveiver. As of now the Atom/ION is not sufficient for streaming at 1080p. A case this small/flat could not be cooled silently, since the G530 emits too much heat for small CPU coolers and fans.
Edit: Added mouse and keyboard to list of components
|
Nice! I might do a similar build for my parents.
|
Cool. Happy building!
Btw the picoPSU should easily handle an internal DVD- or BluRay-drive. Since I rarely watch DVDs, I decided to use the external drive that was lying around anyways.
|
On October 18 2011 17:05 propulsion wrote:Here is the complete list of components: + Show Spoiler +# CPU: Intel Celeron G530
# CPU cooler: Zalman CNPS10X Performa (15.2cm high)
# CPU fan: Noctua NF-S12B ULN (12cm)
# Mainboard: ASUS P8H67-V R.3.0
# RAM: Kingston KHX1600C9D3LK2/4GX
# PSU: picoPSU-150-XT + 150W Adapter Power Kit
# SSD: Crucial m4
# Dedicated graphics card: None
# Dedivated sound card: None (A/V-Reveiver connected optically)
# Case: Cooler Master Silencio 550 (CPU cooler barely fits; most coolers are too big)
# Wireless keyboard: Microsoft Arc (black)
# Wireless mouse: Logitech M505
# DVD-Drive: External (with external power)
I am pretty sure that this is the best silent HTPC you can build right now.
That's funny, because I think I have the best silent HTPC also 
Too bad I only just found this thread, maybe I could have given another point of view towards HTPC's.
Here's my stuff: + Show Spoiler +Core i3 2100T
Scythe mini ninja
Asrock Z68 Pro3-M
HIS 6570 Silence
Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 Slim
Antec Fusion
Corsair CX400
Intel X25-M G2 80GB
2x WD Caviar Green 2TB
Internal 5.25" DVD-drive
Peripherals:
Ace C5 keyboard/mouse
Logitech Harmony 825
Wireless Xbox 360 controller
The only three fans are one on the PSU (totally silent) and two case fans (totally silent unless you stick your head down there). The CPU cooler would probably be enough even if it were completely passive, but the case fans synergise really well with the current setup. I could have used integrated graphics, but I wanted to build a rig that also makes Xbox 360 obsolete, so I got HIS 6570 Silence, which was about the most powerful GPU with reasonably sized passive cooler. Sound card is just personal preference, and the WD hard drives are totally silent, unlike Samsung F1/T166 which I have previously had. The VFD display on the case is quite gimmicky but cool nonetheless, and IR-receiver is totally baller.
Pics: ![[image loading]](http://users.tkk.fi/~mtkivi/koneet/htpc/htpc2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://users.tkk.fi/~mtkivi/koneet/htpc/olkkari2.jpg)
|
On October 18 2011 17:05 propulsion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +...
Everything works flawlessly!
Stream watching works as good as it possibly can and the computer makes no noise.
And I mean NO noise. The new 12cm Noctua NF-S12B fan is attached to the CPU cooler and running at 550RPM. While watching 1080p+ the temperature of one core is ~40°C, of the other ~33°C. CPU usage is ~20%. Maximum temperature for this CPU is 69.1°C. No case fans are necessary. If Speedfan would not tell me that it is running, I would not believe it. Originally I wanted a switch to turn off the fan while listening to music, but there is no need for it.
...
Great to hear. Glad you're happy with everything.
As a side-note, FYI,
the max temp for the CPU is actually higher. TCASE is 69.1 and it refers to the temperature measured at the center of the CPU's heatspreader. I read about this a while ago and forgot the exact details, but either way the CPU will not throttle until the core temps go to like 90+ IIRC.
But you'll never ever get there as long as you keep that fan running even at "only" 550rpm. If you're brave you could test completely passive cooling but not sure that would work and why risk it if it's already silent?
|
@Wabbit:
Wow. That gives a lot of room. I did test it without fans while the case was half open. It went to only ~50°C during stream watching. That I could go as high as 90°C is definitely good to know in case I will render out some videos and therefore use the CPU to it's full potential for several hours. Will limit it to something around 60-70°C and feel safe.
@Bondator:
You did the build I had in mind when I started this topic
But then I decided to go with complete silence and had to cut some corners (and saved some money).
Remote and LCD are nice features of the HTPC cases. How do you use them?
I do have a Logitech Harmony and was thinking about an IR-Reveicer to turn on the PC. But actually I keep it on standby during the day and use the mouse to wake it up - so I did not take the time to find one. Nice living room btw. Especially the dolby plates!
Also I was thinking about a picoLCD. Would make a little box for it and place it next to the TV. It could show incoming justin.tv mails and such. But it would not work with the PC on standby. Will have to think a little more about that.
Didn't know there is a mini version of the Ninja. Will definitely get one of those if I switch to a HTPC case.
Nice keyboard. Never heard of the company "Ace of Sweden". Maybe hard to get in Germany. But looks like really good quality. And it is not glossy like my Microsoft (has to be cleaned quite often). Does the trackball move when you move the keyboard (like putting it back on the table with a fast movement)?
I did place a lamp behind my TV. Makes TV watching easier to the eye. Maybe that is something for you too.
(also added a link to your post to the OP)
|
Hi,
Revisiting this old thread to possibly get some answers for a slightly different use case. I'm looking to build a NAS which should also be used as a Plex media server. This means it would have to be able to transcode various HD content to primarily iOS devices. And as a NAS I would like it to be as quiet and low power consuming as possible (thus borrowing this thread). Have you tried to run the Plex Media Server on your HTPC? My biggest concern is the CPU requirements of a dual core 2,4 GHz CPU. No readybuilt NAS within my budget has a sufficient CPU (Netgear ReadyNAS Pro 6 is too expensive). I was set for the i3-2120T but this thread made me think this should work even with the Intel Celeron G530... Have you tested the powerconsumption of your system during idle and load?
Thanks,
Extcon
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
