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The Ultimate Mouse Thread - Page 38

Forum Index > Tech Support
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a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-28 06:34:04
February 28 2012 06:33 GMT
#741
i got to play around with a logi g300 earlier today. the shape is good for finger grip, but those stupid buttons on the buttons completely mess up the mouse as they don't give you much leeway in positioning your fingers.

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +
xzibit.jpg
starleague forever
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-28 06:35:09
February 28 2012 06:34 GMT
#742
On February 26 2012 00:45 Blasterion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2012 04:50 Cyro wrote:
On February 25 2012 02:55 Blasterion wrote:
btw @ Medrea I started to train for No accel 5600 dpi again to see if I can pull it off.


Good luck with that

*goes back to 450dpi with 0.5 on the fly sens for splits and blink engages*

Damn 450 dpi You must have to use the entire mouse pad.


I use the same DPI and I only move the mouse like 1.5 inches to go screenwide.

Anyone get the feeling that something is really fucking wrong here?

Crazypills.gif
twitch.tv/medrea
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
February 28 2012 10:57 GMT
#743
With this mouse being a figment of my imagination, what can I do now?

I love the grip of my xai, but the tracking is sub par. I've heard good things about the relatively new Zowie AM. How is it guys? Is the sensor any good?
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
jackdaleaper
Profile Joined September 2010
Philippines1216 Posts
February 28 2012 12:49 GMT
#744
I was looking at maybe buying a new mouse and saw the new Tt eSPORTS Theron, anyone have any experience with it?
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
February 28 2012 13:38 GMT
#745
On February 28 2012 19:57 theBALLS wrote:
With this mouse being a figment of my imagination, what can I do now?

I love the grip of my xai, but the tracking is sub par. I've heard good things about the relatively new Zowie AM. How is it guys? Is the sensor any good?

Are you using a cloth mousepad? If you are, you might want to get a hardpad before getting a new mouse. Laser traditionally doesn't track as well on cloth.

The AM is using the new Avago 3090, which is supposedly an open source 3888 (DA sensor), so tracking should be pretty good. It has a really low LOD, tracking might be finicky, so if you're thinking about getting the AM you probably should be looking into a specific pad that works with it.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1182539/zowie-am-review

OH, also GS means glossy sides if you're wondering.
Administrator
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
February 28 2012 13:48 GMT
#746
On February 28 2012 22:38 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2012 19:57 theBALLS wrote:
With this mouse being a figment of my imagination, what can I do now?

I love the grip of my xai, but the tracking is sub par. I've heard good things about the relatively new Zowie AM. How is it guys? Is the sensor any good?

Are you using a cloth mousepad? If you are, you might want to get a hardpad before getting a new mouse. Laser traditionally doesn't track as well on cloth.





Incorrect. Laser traditionally is bitchy and whiney, with hard and soft making a lot less difference than texture, color, and reflectivity. I used to own a Razer Vespula hard mat. With the textured side, my RAT 7 (Phillips Twin Eye) was utterly useless, with the smooth side, it tracked fairly well, but the mouse feet polished the surface to a semi-gloss in around a year, making it utter shit. I temporarily replaced it with a cloth pad until a QXC Mass could get in.

Basically, as long as the surface is un-textured, it helps, it MUST be a matte surface, and lots of color changes help but aren't mandatory. In fact, in my personal tests, more harder surfaces are bad for it than soft, out of stuff intended to be a mousing surface, as a lot of them have fancy textures or shiny stuff on them.

theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
February 28 2012 15:55 GMT
#747
On February 28 2012 22:38 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2012 19:57 theBALLS wrote:
With this mouse being a figment of my imagination, what can I do now?

I love the grip of my xai, but the tracking is sub par. I've heard good things about the relatively new Zowie AM. How is it guys? Is the sensor any good?

Are you using a cloth mousepad? If you are, you might want to get a hardpad before getting a new mouse. Laser traditionally doesn't track as well on cloth.

The AM is using the new Avago 3090, which is supposedly an open source 3888 (DA sensor), so tracking should be pretty good. It has a really low LOD, tracking might be finicky, so if you're thinking about getting the AM you probably should be looking into a specific pad that works with it.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1182539/zowie-am-review

OH, also GS means glossy sides if you're wondering.

Nope. I'm using a SS 4HD.

I just don't really like the acceleration on this mouse. No one here has really tried the Zowie AM? Because it ALMOST looks like the perfect mouse.
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-28 16:00:46
February 28 2012 16:00 GMT
#748
On February 29 2012 00:55 theBALLS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2012 22:38 wo1fwood wrote:
On February 28 2012 19:57 theBALLS wrote:
With this mouse being a figment of my imagination, what can I do now?

I love the grip of my xai, but the tracking is sub par. I've heard good things about the relatively new Zowie AM. How is it guys? Is the sensor any good?

Are you using a cloth mousepad? If you are, you might want to get a hardpad before getting a new mouse. Laser traditionally doesn't track as well on cloth.

The AM is using the new Avago 3090, which is supposedly an open source 3888 (DA sensor), so tracking should be pretty good. It has a really low LOD, tracking might be finicky, so if you're thinking about getting the AM you probably should be looking into a specific pad that works with it.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1182539/zowie-am-review

OH, also GS means glossy sides if you're wondering.

Nope. I'm using a SS 4HD.

I just don't really like the acceleration on this mouse. No one here has really tried the Zowie AM? Because it ALMOST looks like the perfect mouse.


From their product page:
The SteelSeries 4HD is a hard plastic composition specifically engineered for professional gamers who demand extremely consistent precision, accuracy, and stability. The finely textured surface consists of tens of thousands of light reflecting microscopic points, optimized to enhance the tracking capabilities of next-generation gaming mice.

http://steelseries.com/us/products/surfaces/steelseries-4hd

I can almost guarantee it's your pad, no matter how they hype it. There's a reason the vast majority of their sponsored players use the QXC.

Reflection is terrible for laser.
Kevan
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden2303 Posts
February 28 2012 16:20 GMT
#749
I have an old Steelseries Kinzu lying around but it doesn't work. When I plug it in it says that the device is not detected or that the drivers for the mouse couldn't be installed. So I went and downloaded the drivers from their website and I have the Kinzu configuration thing installed. Still the same result as before(not detected).

So does the old Kinzu not work on a newer system with windows 7 or am I missing something?
SC2, rip in pepperinos
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
February 28 2012 16:27 GMT
#750
On February 29 2012 01:20 Kevan wrote:
I have an old Steelseries Kinzu lying around but it doesn't work. When I plug it in it says that the device is not detected or that the drivers for the mouse couldn't be installed. So I went and downloaded the drivers from their website and I have the Kinzu configuration thing installed. Still the same result as before(not detected).

So does the old Kinzu not work on a newer system with windows 7 or am I missing something?


Does the Kinzu work on other PCs? DIfferent USB ports? Does it work at all, just not with all the fancy stuff, or is it truly not detected?
Kevan
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden2303 Posts
February 28 2012 16:33 GMT
#751
On February 29 2012 01:27 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 01:20 Kevan wrote:
I have an old Steelseries Kinzu lying around but it doesn't work. When I plug it in it says that the device is not detected or that the drivers for the mouse couldn't be installed. So I went and downloaded the drivers from their website and I have the Kinzu configuration thing installed. Still the same result as before(not detected).

So does the old Kinzu not work on a newer system with windows 7 or am I missing something?


Does the Kinzu work on other PCs? DIfferent USB ports? Does it work at all, just not with all the fancy stuff, or is it truly not detected?

It doesn't work on my laptop either(which has windows 7 too) and using different USB ports does not work. And it is truly not detected. And I'm pretty sure that it isn't broken. I think it used to work on my old pc though(which had vista).
SC2, rip in pepperinos
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
February 28 2012 16:34 GMT
#752
On February 29 2012 01:00 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 00:55 theBALLS wrote:
On February 28 2012 22:38 wo1fwood wrote:
On February 28 2012 19:57 theBALLS wrote:
With this mouse being a figment of my imagination, what can I do now?

I love the grip of my xai, but the tracking is sub par. I've heard good things about the relatively new Zowie AM. How is it guys? Is the sensor any good?

Are you using a cloth mousepad? If you are, you might want to get a hardpad before getting a new mouse. Laser traditionally doesn't track as well on cloth.

The AM is using the new Avago 3090, which is supposedly an open source 3888 (DA sensor), so tracking should be pretty good. It has a really low LOD, tracking might be finicky, so if you're thinking about getting the AM you probably should be looking into a specific pad that works with it.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1182539/zowie-am-review

OH, also GS means glossy sides if you're wondering.

Nope. I'm using a SS 4HD.

I just don't really like the acceleration on this mouse. No one here has really tried the Zowie AM? Because it ALMOST looks like the perfect mouse.


From their product page:
Show nested quote +
The SteelSeries 4HD is a hard plastic composition specifically engineered for professional gamers who demand extremely consistent precision, accuracy, and stability. The finely textured surface consists of tens of thousands of light reflecting microscopic points, optimized to enhance the tracking capabilities of next-generation gaming mice.

http://steelseries.com/us/products/surfaces/steelseries-4hd

I can almost guarantee it's your pad, no matter how they hype it. There's a reason the vast majority of their sponsored players use the QXC.

Reflection is terrible for laser.

Lol so you're saying that the Xai is a good mouse?
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
February 28 2012 16:35 GMT
#753
On February 29 2012 01:33 Kevan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 01:27 JingleHell wrote:
On February 29 2012 01:20 Kevan wrote:
I have an old Steelseries Kinzu lying around but it doesn't work. When I plug it in it says that the device is not detected or that the drivers for the mouse couldn't be installed. So I went and downloaded the drivers from their website and I have the Kinzu configuration thing installed. Still the same result as before(not detected).

So does the old Kinzu not work on a newer system with windows 7 or am I missing something?


Does the Kinzu work on other PCs? DIfferent USB ports? Does it work at all, just not with all the fancy stuff, or is it truly not detected?

It doesn't work on my laptop either(which has windows 7 too) and using different USB ports does not work. And it is truly not detected. And I'm pretty sure that it isn't broken. I think it used to work on my old pc though(which had vista).


You need to test it on another PC with another OS to be sure. The wires could be broken inside the cable without it being obvious. It could be some weird thing, but ruling out a dead mouse first is a REALLY good idea for your sanity. Nothing worse than spending 6 hours trying to make something work because it used to work, and then finally realizing it's actually just dead.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
February 28 2012 16:40 GMT
#754
On February 29 2012 01:34 theBALLS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 01:00 JingleHell wrote:
On February 29 2012 00:55 theBALLS wrote:
On February 28 2012 22:38 wo1fwood wrote:
On February 28 2012 19:57 theBALLS wrote:
With this mouse being a figment of my imagination, what can I do now?

I love the grip of my xai, but the tracking is sub par. I've heard good things about the relatively new Zowie AM. How is it guys? Is the sensor any good?

Are you using a cloth mousepad? If you are, you might want to get a hardpad before getting a new mouse. Laser traditionally doesn't track as well on cloth.

The AM is using the new Avago 3090, which is supposedly an open source 3888 (DA sensor), so tracking should be pretty good. It has a really low LOD, tracking might be finicky, so if you're thinking about getting the AM you probably should be looking into a specific pad that works with it.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1182539/zowie-am-review

OH, also GS means glossy sides if you're wondering.

Nope. I'm using a SS 4HD.

I just don't really like the acceleration on this mouse. No one here has really tried the Zowie AM? Because it ALMOST looks like the perfect mouse.


From their product page:
The SteelSeries 4HD is a hard plastic composition specifically engineered for professional gamers who demand extremely consistent precision, accuracy, and stability. The finely textured surface consists of tens of thousands of light reflecting microscopic points, optimized to enhance the tracking capabilities of next-generation gaming mice.

http://steelseries.com/us/products/surfaces/steelseries-4hd

I can almost guarantee it's your pad, no matter how they hype it. There's a reason the vast majority of their sponsored players use the QXC.

Reflection is terrible for laser.

Lol so you're saying that the Xai is a good mouse?


Never used it specifically, but I know plenty of people do actually like it. What I AM saying is that finding a mousepad that works with high sensitivity laser mice is like trying to do a psych eval on a pregnant woman.

And a surface+mouse combo that doesn't work out well with a laser mouse can feel like a serious prediction problem.

IPS.Blue
Profile Joined January 2004
Germany309 Posts
February 28 2012 23:45 GMT
#755
On February 28 2012 22:48 JingleHell wrote:
Incorrect. Laser traditionally is bitchy and whiney, with hard and soft making a lot less difference than texture, color, and reflectivity. I used to own a Razer Vespula hard mat. With the textured side, my RAT 7 (Phillips Twin Eye) was utterly useless, with the smooth side, it tracked fairly well, but the mouse feet polished the surface to a semi-gloss in around a year, making it utter shit. I temporarily replaced it with a cloth pad until a QXC Mass could get in.

Basically, as long as the surface is un-textured, it helps, it MUST be a matte surface, and lots of color changes help but aren't mandatory. In fact, in my personal tests, more harder surfaces are bad for it than soft, out of stuff intended to be a mousing surface, as a lot of them have fancy textures or shiny stuff on them.

Incorrect. First of all: The Phillips Twin Eye is fundamentally different from the 9500 in the Xai. Ironically PTE sensors do have problems on soft mouse pads: they do track in such a precise way, that they even register when you're pressing a mouse button/listening to bass heavy music.
Also: The Xai and generally most mice with the 9500 have problems on cloth pads. To quote maybe the mouse expert on overclock.net (Skylit): "The Sensei utilizes Avago's ADNS-A9500 Laser sensor and while I've had and replaced a handful of 9500 mice in the past, I ultimately came to the conclusion that these mice just suck on cloth pads."
However there seems to be hope: the Sensei handles cloth pads significantly better, than all other 9500 mice. Maybe future mice utilizing the 9800 laser sensor will be even better (but chances are not that good, sadly). Still: laser technology has the potential to be the best sensor technology in town.
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
February 28 2012 23:52 GMT
#756
I have yet to see a laser mouse that was executed well enough for me to actually want one.

Honestly I really dont see the point. I dont think better tracking is something we should be pursuing at all. Better polling rates and full DPI adjustability is something the market should be heading towards.

But goddam it people keep treating DPI like its some sort of benchmark.
twitch.tv/medrea
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
February 29 2012 00:25 GMT
#757
On February 29 2012 08:45 IPS.Blue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2012 22:48 JingleHell wrote:
Incorrect. Laser traditionally is bitchy and whiney, with hard and soft making a lot less difference than texture, color, and reflectivity. I used to own a Razer Vespula hard mat. With the textured side, my RAT 7 (Phillips Twin Eye) was utterly useless, with the smooth side, it tracked fairly well, but the mouse feet polished the surface to a semi-gloss in around a year, making it utter shit. I temporarily replaced it with a cloth pad until a QXC Mass could get in.

Basically, as long as the surface is un-textured, it helps, it MUST be a matte surface, and lots of color changes help but aren't mandatory. In fact, in my personal tests, more harder surfaces are bad for it than soft, out of stuff intended to be a mousing surface, as a lot of them have fancy textures or shiny stuff on them.

Incorrect. First of all: The Phillips Twin Eye is fundamentally different from the 9500 in the Xai. Ironically PTE sensors do have problems on soft mouse pads: they do track in such a precise way, that they even register when you're pressing a mouse button/listening to bass heavy music.
Also: The Xai and generally most mice with the 9500 have problems on cloth pads. To quote maybe the mouse expert on overclock.net (Skylit): "The Sensei utilizes Avago's ADNS-A9500 Laser sensor and while I've had and replaced a handful of 9500 mice in the past, I ultimately came to the conclusion that these mice just suck on cloth pads."
However there seems to be hope: the Sensei handles cloth pads significantly better, than all other 9500 mice. Maybe future mice utilizing the 9800 laser sensor will be even better (but chances are not that good, sadly). Still: laser technology has the potential to be the best sensor technology in town.


Uhm, no, you're basically just wrong. Texture and reflectiveness are what matters. Obviously, if the mat is shifting around under it, that can cause issues, but that's frequently due to the desk underneath it, or excessive force, not the pad itself. I've had acceptable results with more cloth mats than hard for my RAT. And I went through most of Fry's selection, returning the ones that didn't work well, and in the end, bought a QXC mass. Works better than my old Vespula did, even when it was new.

Also, the insanity with a phillips twin eye and heavy bass is only at stupidly high DPI settings, and even then, depends on grip, surface, and other things. I can max my mouse, and, shifting my grip a bit, go from absolute stability to having the pulse in my thumb twitch it. At lower DPI settings, it's still precise, but doesn't get all jumpy.

And I did specify my mouse, as I'm aware it's different. But the biggest thing making Phillips Twin Eye what it is is the dual sensor. Lasers still tend to be more picky about surface than optical or ball mice.
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
February 29 2012 00:29 GMT
#758
The pulse from your thumb wont really move the cursor will it?

It takes a certain amount of force to start moving an object on a surface at all. Less than the amount to keep it in motion.
twitch.tv/medrea
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
February 29 2012 00:31 GMT
#759
On February 29 2012 09:29 Medrea wrote:
The pulse from your thumb wont really move the cursor will it?

It takes a certain amount of force to start moving an object on a surface at all. Less than the amount to keep it in motion.


You can get it to work, but it's not a real-world circumstance.
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
February 29 2012 00:33 GMT
#760
Oh I see what your saying.

Blasterion was going on about he needs more DPI than his mouse can give and he is already at something huge like 3600 DPI but his mousing experience is similar to my 450 DPI.

No idea whats going on.
twitch.tv/medrea
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