On June 17 2014 00:30 Iksf wrote: Would have thought the lower sensitivity would be better for long distance aiming. If you have low sensitivity turning around quickly can be an issue. For example when I play CoD im normally on my mouses 400 DPI setting but for Quake style shooters I normally do 800
I think I messed up on the CM definition... thank you. I will update my post. I meant that. Thought higher CM meant faster sensitivity... oops.
Nah, everyone just confused here
DPI isn't a method that you can use to determine sensitivity in an FPS game, because one player could use 400 DPI and 10 sensitivity in one engine, and another could use 800 DPI and 5 sensitivity, and their aim would turn 180 degrees with the same amount of mouse movement.
When i say 25cm/180, i mean your character does a 180 degree turn in 25 centimeters of mouse movement, 0.25 meters.
Many people, especially non competitive+researched, use things like fingertips or pivoting wrist to turn in an FPS game, and use only like 2-5 centimeters of movement to turn around completely. That's considered quite normal to them.
The other camp would often call "only" 10 centimeters to turn around a very high sensitivity, with many people using 20cm, 30cm or even 40cm+ in some games to turn around. It's often done because you can learn to move quickly and then it does not seriously compromise the amount of time you need to make quick turns, but lower sensitivity is widely accepted to allow for higher accuracy and far stronger muscle memory
They're so different, that some types of mice are completely acceptable to one group, but very difficult to use for the other
Here's an example of a very low sensitivity:
That's very very low though for snapping around
This sensitivity is listed as 70cm for a 360 turn, which is 35cm/180:
You can use double that sensitivity^ and still fall well into the second group using more than "very high" sens very comfortably. It's just that a ton of people use like 2-5 centimeters for a 180 turn, and a ton more use their hand/arm differently and use like 10-40cm.
Thank you very much for the clarification. When playing a FPS I "prefer" lower sensitivity. Unfortunately I currently have my mouse set up on my keyboard tray, which only has approx 15-16 CM of room. As such I try to keep my CM at 10-12 (per 180). Occasionally faster if its a faster paced shooter.
I could try moving my mouse on top of my desk for more room, but then my entire hand is elevated. Not sure I like that.
Hopefully I can find a mouse that actually suits me xD
Understandable, but being somewhat elitist, i wouldn't asking for a new mouse, but for a new desk/table ;p
I already have a great gaming desk ;P based on my post, what type of mouse would you suggest?
On June 17 2014 00:30 Iksf wrote: Would have thought the lower sensitivity would be better for long distance aiming. If you have low sensitivity turning around quickly can be an issue. For example when I play CoD im normally on my mouses 400 DPI setting but for Quake style shooters I normally do 800
I think I messed up on the CM definition... thank you. I will update my post. I meant that. Thought higher CM meant faster sensitivity... oops.
Nah, everyone just confused here
DPI isn't a method that you can use to determine sensitivity in an FPS game, because one player could use 400 DPI and 10 sensitivity in one engine, and another could use 800 DPI and 5 sensitivity, and their aim would turn 180 degrees with the same amount of mouse movement.
When i say 25cm/180, i mean your character does a 180 degree turn in 25 centimeters of mouse movement, 0.25 meters.
Many people, especially non competitive+researched, use things like fingertips or pivoting wrist to turn in an FPS game, and use only like 2-5 centimeters of movement to turn around completely. That's considered quite normal to them.
The other camp would often call "only" 10 centimeters to turn around a very high sensitivity, with many people using 20cm, 30cm or even 40cm+ in some games to turn around. It's often done because you can learn to move quickly and then it does not seriously compromise the amount of time you need to make quick turns, but lower sensitivity is widely accepted to allow for higher accuracy and far stronger muscle memory
They're so different, that some types of mice are completely acceptable to one group, but very difficult to use for the other
You can use double that sensitivity^ and still fall well into the second group using more than "very high" sens very comfortably. It's just that a ton of people use like 2-5 centimeters for a 180 turn, and a ton more use their hand/arm differently and use like 10-40cm.
Thank you very much for the clarification. When playing a FPS I "prefer" lower sensitivity. Unfortunately I currently have my mouse set up on my keyboard tray, which only has approx 15-16 CM of room. As such I try to keep my CM at 10-12 (per 180). Occasionally faster if its a faster paced shooter.
I could try moving my mouse on top of my desk for more room, but then my entire hand is elevated. Not sure I like that.
Hopefully I can find a mouse that actually suits me xD
Understandable, but being somewhat elitist, i wouldn't asking for a new mouse, but for a new desk/table ;p
I already have a great gaming desk ;P based on my post, what type of mouse would you suggest?
I dunno, because i play 2d games like rts/mmo with ~600-800dpi or so 1:1 (~2.4 - 3.2 inches left to right) but i use like 30cm/180 for FPS, with the mouse preference i have for non-FPS, i have to use two different mice because of the difference in grip and sensitivity.
Just wanted to point it out that some people think "low" sensitivity is 4cm/180 and others use 1/10'th of that
On June 17 2014 05:57 MisterFred wrote: I'd suggest the Mionix Naos 7000 if you're right-handed. Or the Avior from the same company if you're left-handed.
According to their website, that mouse is ment for Palm grip. I'm claw : /.
I guess it could work for palm... odd they'd say that though. I use a fingertip grip on my Naos 3200 (same shell) and it's dreamy. Claw would work fine unless you have large hands though, I'd expect.
Double check you're claw & not fingertip grip. I've noted a few people that look at palm grip, think "I don't put my palm on the base of the mouse" and assume they're claw grip. Where claw grip actually also has the palm against the base of the mouse.
On June 17 2014 08:45 MisterFred wrote: I guess it could work for palm... odd they'd say that though. I use a fingertip grip on my Naos 3200 (same shell) and it's dreamy. Claw would work fine unless you have large hands though, I'd expect.
Double check you're claw & not fingertip grip. I've noted a few people that look at palm grip, think "I don't put my palm on the base of the mouse" and assume they're claw grip. Where claw grip actually also has the palm against the base of the mouse.
I use claw grip. My palm always rests on the mouse. Occasionally I'll lift up my palm and go into finger grip, but on average that's not the case.
Also: I do have big hands. From the tip of my middle finger to the base of my palm is approx. 8 inches.
On June 17 2014 08:45 MisterFred wrote: I guess it could work for palm... odd they'd say that though. I use a fingertip grip on my Naos 3200 (same shell) and it's dreamy. Claw would work fine unless you have large hands though, I'd expect.
Double check you're claw & not fingertip grip. I've noted a few people that look at palm grip, think "I don't put my palm on the base of the mouse" and assume they're claw grip. Where claw grip actually also has the palm against the base of the mouse.
I use claw grip. My palm always rests on the mouse. Occasionally I'll lift up my palm and go into finger grip, but on average that's not the case.
Also: I do have big hands. From the tip of my middle finger to the base of my palm is approx. 8 inches.
Is Zowie ec1/2 really ambi? It looks more like it's ergo, but I can't be sure from just these pics. The pics on the website make look more like ergonomic.
Also, I'm not sure if the ec1/2 is what I need. Sometimes, I grip palm, but sometimes (esp for quakelive) I like to use a claw-ish grip, kinda like Rapha.
On June 17 2014 08:45 MisterFred wrote: I guess it could work for palm... odd they'd say that though. I use a fingertip grip on my Naos 3200 (same shell) and it's dreamy. Claw would work fine unless you have large hands though, I'd expect.
Double check you're claw & not fingertip grip. I've noted a few people that look at palm grip, think "I don't put my palm on the base of the mouse" and assume they're claw grip. Where claw grip actually also has the palm against the base of the mouse.
I use claw grip. My palm always rests on the mouse. Occasionally I'll lift up my palm and go into finger grip, but on average that's not the case.
Also: I do have big hands. From the tip of my middle finger to the base of my palm is approx. 8 inches.
On June 17 2014 08:45 MisterFred wrote: I guess it could work for palm... odd they'd say that though. I use a fingertip grip on my Naos 3200 (same shell) and it's dreamy. Claw would work fine unless you have large hands though, I'd expect.
Double check you're claw & not fingertip grip. I've noted a few people that look at palm grip, think "I don't put my palm on the base of the mouse" and assume they're claw grip. Where claw grip actually also has the palm against the base of the mouse.
I use claw grip. My palm always rests on the mouse. Occasionally I'll lift up my palm and go into finger grip, but on average that's not the case.
Also: I do have big hands. From the tip of my middle finger to the base of my palm is approx. 8 inches.
Any experience with the G9X? Not sure if it would fit my grip... I know its discontinued but there are a still a few copies on amazon.
bad sensor, miles away from being up to par in terms of consistency across a range of movement speeds (say moving the mouse an inch 3+ times at 1000dpi, instead of moving like ~990-1010 pixels, it moves ~1030 +- 50)
you might be interested in cm storm xornet/spawn, but the xornet sensor is not appropriate for low sensitivity FPS and is somewhat limited to the ~1000 dpi choice.
On June 17 2014 08:45 MisterFred wrote: I guess it could work for palm... odd they'd say that though. I use a fingertip grip on my Naos 3200 (same shell) and it's dreamy. Claw would work fine unless you have large hands though, I'd expect.
Double check you're claw & not fingertip grip. I've noted a few people that look at palm grip, think "I don't put my palm on the base of the mouse" and assume they're claw grip. Where claw grip actually also has the palm against the base of the mouse.
I use claw grip. My palm always rests on the mouse. Occasionally I'll lift up my palm and go into finger grip, but on average that's not the case.
Also: I do have big hands. From the tip of my middle finger to the base of my palm is approx. 8 inches.
Any experience with the G9X? Not sure if it would fit my grip... I know its discontinued but there are a still a few copies on amazon.
bad sensor, miles away from being up to par in terms of consistency across a range of movement speeds (say moving the mouse an inch 3+ times at 1000dpi, instead of moving like ~990-1010 pixels, it moves ~1030 +- 50)
you might be interested in cm storm xornet/spawn, but the xornet sensor is not appropriate for low sensitivity FPS and is somewhat limited to the ~1000 dpi choice.
The max DPI I play at is 800. So that wouldn't work : /.
On June 17 2014 08:45 MisterFred wrote: I guess it could work for palm... odd they'd say that though. I use a fingertip grip on my Naos 3200 (same shell) and it's dreamy. Claw would work fine unless you have large hands though, I'd expect.
Double check you're claw & not fingertip grip. I've noted a few people that look at palm grip, think "I don't put my palm on the base of the mouse" and assume they're claw grip. Where claw grip actually also has the palm against the base of the mouse.
I use claw grip. My palm always rests on the mouse. Occasionally I'll lift up my palm and go into finger grip, but on average that's not the case.
Also: I do have big hands. From the tip of my middle finger to the base of my palm is approx. 8 inches.
Any experience with the G9X? Not sure if it would fit my grip... I know its discontinued but there are a still a few copies on amazon.
bad sensor, miles away from being up to par in terms of consistency across a range of movement speeds (say moving the mouse an inch 3+ times at 1000dpi, instead of moving like ~990-1010 pixels, it moves ~1030 +- 50)
you might be interested in cm storm xornet/spawn, but the xornet sensor is not appropriate for low sensitivity FPS and is somewhat limited to the ~1000 dpi choice.
The max DPI I play at is 800. So that wouldn't work : /.
Any experience with the razer ourobous?
What about Corsair M45 if you are interested in the G9 shape? It seems to be obviously intended to copy the feel of the G9 shape. I hope I mentioned the right number (M45), as there were several Corsair mice with that shape, and only one of them uses that 3310 sensor like in Avior and Naos 7000.
On June 17 2014 08:45 MisterFred wrote: I guess it could work for palm... odd they'd say that though. I use a fingertip grip on my Naos 3200 (same shell) and it's dreamy. Claw would work fine unless you have large hands though, I'd expect.
Double check you're claw & not fingertip grip. I've noted a few people that look at palm grip, think "I don't put my palm on the base of the mouse" and assume they're claw grip. Where claw grip actually also has the palm against the base of the mouse.
I use claw grip. My palm always rests on the mouse. Occasionally I'll lift up my palm and go into finger grip, but on average that's not the case.
Also: I do have big hands. From the tip of my middle finger to the base of my palm is approx. 8 inches.
Any experience with the G9X? Not sure if it would fit my grip... I know its discontinued but there are a still a few copies on amazon.
bad sensor, miles away from being up to par in terms of consistency across a range of movement speeds (say moving the mouse an inch 3+ times at 1000dpi, instead of moving like ~990-1010 pixels, it moves ~1030 +- 50)
you might be interested in cm storm xornet/spawn, but the xornet sensor is not appropriate for low sensitivity FPS and is somewhat limited to the ~1000 dpi choice.
The max DPI I play at is 800. So that wouldn't work : /.
Any experience with the razer ourobous?
You're in the US, so the Spawn is available. It's big brother of the xornet with better sensor and 800 + 1600dpi steps with great performance at 800dpi
800dpi on 1080p is master race sensitivity anyway ;p
I think i heard of a few issues with that corsair clawy 3310 mouse but can't remember what they were, it's probably a good option to consider
That could work in theory. ATM I'm relooking at the Naos. I fluctuate between claw/fingertip grip pretty regularly. What is the size of the "hump" on the 8200? AKA the curve of the shell.
Typically larger "curves" (like the death adder) are more inclusive to palm grip... and that's my biggest concern.
Look at the 7000, not the 8200. The smaller number does not mean it's worse, it means it has a different sensor (the 3310), definitely the better one for use at something like 800 DPI.
Also, the Avior isn't smaller. It should be long enough for a grip where you push your palm into it at the back with a large hand.
On June 17 2014 23:55 Ropid wrote: Look at the 7000, not the 8200. The smaller number does not mean it's worse, it means it has a different sensor (the 3310), definitely the better one for use at something like 800 DPI.
Also, the Avior isn't smaller. It should be long enough for a grip where you push your palm into it at the back with a large hand.
If you didn't understand, they are using the exact same shells, Naos 7000 and 8200, and Avior 7200 and 8000. The difference is the sensor used. The 7000 models have the Avago ADNS-3310 optical sensor, the 8200 models have the Avago ADNS-9800 laser.
Naos is that shape with special place for ring finger and stuff. Avior is more traditional ambidextrous shape. They both seem to be very similar length. I can't decide how they compare about the curve and height just looking at pictures.
I'd personally would be a bit scared about the Naos shape, can't predict if I'd hate it or not. I'd buy somewhere where I know I'd be able to give it back if I hate it. Avior seems safer to predict that's it's probably a great shape.
On June 18 2014 00:26 Ropid wrote: If you didn't understand, they are using the exact same shells, Naos 7000 and 8200, and Avior 7200 and 8000. The difference is the sensor used. The 7000 models have the Avago ADNS-3310 optical sensor, the 8200 models have the Avago ADNS-9800 laser.
Naos is that shape with special place for ring finger and stuff. Avior is more traditional ambidextrous shape. They both seem to be very similar length. I can't decide how they compare about the curve and height just looking at pictures.
I'd personally would be a bit scared about the Naos shape, can't predict if I'd hate it or not. I'd buy somewhere where I know I'd be able to give it back if I hate it. Avior seems safer to predict that's it's probably a great shape.
Any experience with the Razer Ouroboros?
I'm mostly considering this mouse because its fully customizable (so I could fit it to my specific grip type).
I don't trust them to have managed to make it great. It's wireless and laser, so two things that can go very wrong, also maybe weight because of batteries. I only have heard Logitech G602 recommended as best possible wireless choice today and that one's also optical instead of laser.
EPT
