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I pretty much know nothing about hardware at all, and here I come to ask you guys for some help.
I just bought a GTS 250 and before installing it I thought to myself (with a Day[9] voice) "Wait a minute...". I've forgotten to verify if my PSU could handle it all, so right now I am really scared that if I install the gpu and after some time gaming my PSU would explode taking my whole PC with it...
Here is my current spec (GTS 250 not installed)
Mainboard : ECS GeForce 8000 series
Chipset : nVidia GeForce 8200
Processor : AMD Phenom X4 9950 Black Edition 2.6GHz
Physical Memory : 6144 MB (3 x 2048 DDR2-SDRAM ) Corsair
Video Card : NVIDIA GeForce 8200
Hard Disk : SAMSUNG (500 GB)
DVD-Rom Drive : TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223C ATA Device
Network Card : RTL8168/8111 PCIe Gigabit Ethernet Adapter
And here is what I believe to be my horrible PSU:
Multilaser ATX model PSU - 101 400W
AC Input: 100-130/200-240V~ 6.5/4.5A
+3.3V: 15A
+5V: 25A
+12V: 12A
-5V: 0.6A
-12V: 0.6A
+5VSB: 2A
+3.3 & +5VMAX: 140W
As you can see it is a pretty damn generic PSU, and I really do not trust this "400W" they labeled, so I am probably gonna buy a decent PSU soon.
The thing is I'm dying to try out my new GPU, so my question is: is it too risky/dangerous to install the GTS 250, play some games for about 4h a day with my current PSU?
And lastly, when I install the discrete gpu should I disable the onboard gpu? If so, how do I do that?
Thanks!
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You guessed right, you probably need a new PSU. I wouldn't risk it. 450-500 should do the job. And more if you plan on doing a full upgrade of new parts.
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Yeah I wouldn't be putting much trust in that PSU. I'd be looking at something like one of the Corsair PSUs. Personnel I have the HX620W and its been great.
As for disabling the onboard GPU - if you really want to you could probably disable it in BIOS.
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400 W should be more than enough to power a GTS 250 but I wouldn't trust that brand. Getting something from Corsair, Coolermaster, OCZ, Antec, Seasonic, XFX, etc, will ensure you getting a quality PSU. If you go for some other company just make sure you find out who is the OEM as most companies that sell the PSUs don't actually make them.
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400W is pushing it for most decent graphics cards, I'd go buy a 500W from a decent brand off newegg or s/t.
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400W is fine for a good brand like corsair or seasonic as long as you're not overclocking.
Unknown brands like that are dangerous in general, get a new one. 400-500W is about right as long as its a reputable brand.
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Thanks for the replies!
Yeah, I actually calculated the PSU minimum/recommended in this site http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine and it gave me the following:
Minimum: 299W
Recommended: 349W
I'm gonna buy a 500W trusted brand PSU, but the real question was if I could play with my GTS 250 for some hours (+-4h) a day with my current PSU until I get the new one.
R04R said he would not risk, so I am taking his word on it :/
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I'm using a 4 year old budget 500 watt PSU with
8800 GTX 768mb
q6600 @ 3ghz
4gb ram
asus xonar ds soundcard
Blackmagic HD capture card
3 10k rpm hard drives
1 7.2k rpm hard drive
1 dvd burner
and somehow this 500watt psu still works after these years, I'm pretty sure I'm pushing this thing to its limits but its still working flawlessly. Still had enough room to overclock my cpu too.
wow, and when I tired that calculator you linked I got 653 watts, 153watts more than what I can do at 100%! it makes me think that calculator isn't that accurate or I got a defective power supply that somehow does more power than it was designed for (which is good!)
But yeah if I can run all that with a 4 year old 500watt budget power supply you should be good with a 400watt powersupply until your 500watt comes in.
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I don't know how older systems utilize the amps on PSUs, but your PSU only has 12A on the +12v rail. I did a quick search on GTS 250's power consumption on the +12v rail and so far I've seen mid 20s. Your PSU is not up to new technology to supply enough power to the card and I highly recommend not putting the GTS 250 until you get a new PSU.
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UnrealChrisG: Are you burning a DVD from files split over your hard drives in RAID while gaming and simultaneously doing h.264 encoding of your HD capture card input?
I can't speak for every calculator, but usually they give safe estimates for the requirements of your system if all the parts are being maxed out. In normal usage with a decked-out system, not all of the parts are being stressed simultaneously. Thus, actual power consumption in day-to-day use is lower than what is recommended based on the sum of your parts.
RO4R is right that the current PSU is an older model that does not have enough on the +12V rail to power the GTS 250 safely. It used to be that components took a significant amount of power from +3.3V, +5V, etc., but nowadays most components draw from the +12V rail. New PSUs are constructed with this balance in mind. A new 400W PSU should be good.
However, mid 20s for amps on +12V, just for a GTS250? That can't be right. That's implying that the GTS 250 takes like 300W, which it certainly doesn't. As a reference, the TDP is quoted at 150W. Probably mid 20s for amps on +12V is for an entire computer, or possibly dual GTS 250.
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No, but I've ran prime 95 for 24 hours straight to make sure my q6600 was stable at 3ghz. But your right, I'm sure if I was to do all that stuff at once my computer would... crash? What exactly happens if your computer can't supply enough power to the components? Does it just crash or will it start acting weird? I remember along time ago I had a 6800 ultra with a small psu, something like 250watts, and after gaming for an hour my whole computer actually became like a electric conductor, if I touched it while it was on I would get shocked, amazingly my computer didn't die, although the power-supply did, so I bought a new 500 watt power-supply to replace it (which happens to be the same psu I'm using today!)
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I'd imagine if you're lucky the computer will just shut down. Stress it too much and kaboom.
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Literally stuff like capacitors can explode, yeah, in the worst case scenario. Running transistors, transformers, the whole deal, etc. at power, current, or voltage higher than they are intended to handle is never a great idea.
Good PSUs will detect that they're running over rated output and will turn themselves and thus the computers off. There's usually a "power good" signal in systems like these--but I'm not sure about computer PSUs specifically--that says when the outputs are fine and ready for use. When they're no longer good, it should signal such, and the system should shut off.
In a kind of gray area above specified watts, most PSUs will probably just go out of ATX spec on the outputs: the nominal +12V might actually be 11.2V on average where 11.4 is the minimum allowed, and the fluctuation (ripple) might be 200 mV instead of the maximum of 120 mV allowed. Of course, motherboards do their own voltage regulation and filtering, but those motherboards are expecting the inputs to be up to ATX standards.
With these unstable voltages, you might expect calculations to occasionally produce incorrect results, values in RAM to be corrupted, data transfers to be faulty. Digital technology is great, but ultimately it uses real-world analog values like everything else. Probably those errors would result in the computer locking up.
In fact, most cheaper PSUs already go out of spec when near their rated capacity. The good thing about reputable brands is that they almost always pass all the tests they're supposed to.
edit: or some parts on the PSU can fail, like your old PSU did. Somehow the chassis, which should be at ground, was no longer at ground. Generally parts that are not supposed to be shorts can become shorts, and parts in a circuit supposed to be connected can become disconnected.
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Underpowering a video card can cause damage to the VRAM, leading to permanent artifacting on the screen.
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Hello good sir, you need to look at amps on your 12 volt rail, not Watts (although 400 W might be on the edge).
So a GTS 250 draws 150 W at maximum. Dividing that with 12 V, you get 12,5 A. (P=U*I formula)
But as you said, this is a generic PSU, so the efficiency of this PSU might not be running on at least 80% efficiency like Corsair PSUs. This basically means that your PSUs wattage is actually not running at 400 W when the temperature rises.
![[image loading]](http://www.corsair.com/highqualitypower/graph1.jpg)
This graph should explain it.
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Argh at all the misinformation in this thread. You need to listen to Roar and Steverman. Watts are just used as a marketing gimmick. The most important thing to look at when buying a power supply is how many amps the 12 volt rail can provide.
This website explains it all and why you should not look at wattage alone:
http://www.playtool.com/pages/psurailhistory/rails.html
Me personally when buying a PSU? I go for 28 amps minimum on the 12v rail for my main work/gaming PC.
My current PSU is a Modular Corsair HX620W. Here is why it is good and why generic cheap PSUs suck in comparison:
Triple 12V Rails provide independent reliable power to the CPU, video card and other components with a combined rating of 50A (40A on 520W) maximum! Advanced circuitry design that automatically enables power sharing between the triple +12V rails in an event of overload on any single +12V rail.
http://www.corsair.com/products/hx/default.aspx
Put that against an AOpen generic "450W" PSU I have in my cupboard that has only 11 amps on a single 12V rail - no way it will run a decent system without issues.
TLDR: You mostly get what you pay for. Ignore watts and look at how many amps the 12v rail can provide.
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Edit: I'm an idiot, yeah you should upgrade to be safe. Shouldn't be too expensive.
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So I've come to the following options due to my low budget:
OCZ ATX 500W Real StealthXStream (R$ 263,41)
+ Show Spoiler +
- Modelo: OCZ500SXS
- Versão: ATX 12V
- Potência: 500W ( Reais )
- Tensão: 115/230Vac
- Frequência: 50/60Hz
- Pfc Ativo
- Eficiencia 80%
- 3.3V=30A
- +5V=30A
- 12V1=18A
- 12V2=18A
- -12V=0.5A
- +5VSB=2.5A
Corsair ATX 400W CMPSU-400CX (R$ 212,41)
+ Show Spoiler +
Certification 80Plus
Active PFC
- ATX12V v2.2
- Corrente: 7A
- Frequência: 47 ~ 63Hz
- Tensão: 90 ~ 264V (Seleção Automática)
- 3,3V +5V +12V -12V +5VSB
- 20A 20A 30A 0,8A 2,5A
- OPP: Over Power Protection
- OVP: Over Voltage Protection
- OCP: Over Current Protection
- SCP: Short Circuits Protection
- UVP: Under Voltage Protection
So, following your instructions, the Corsair 400W would be a better buy than the OCZ 500W? Or having dual +12V with 18A is better than a single +12V with 30A?
Also, I have to thank you yet again because I knew absolutely nothing about PSU and now after those detailed replies I've learned a lot! Thanks!!
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The Corsair 400w is good. If you plan on upgrading more parts it'll require a new PSU probably, though. =/ You'll probably be fighting with yourself over that ^_^ But don't get the stealthxstream, that's not the greatest psu.
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Never mind the GTS250. Your CPU is rated at 140W max, all of which would be drawn from the 12V line. Add a few amps for the HD and CD drives and you're already over the 12A rating of the PSU before adding a video card.
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EPT
