• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:56
CEST 05:56
KST 12:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format12[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!1Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 Yamato Cup Series Interview with an American 16 Year Old Grandmaster
Tourneys
WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Etiquete rules in Asl? Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4783 users

Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 881

Forum Index > Tech Support
Post a Reply
Prev 1 879 880 881 882 883 1626 Next
When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly.
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
January 13 2012 02:23 GMT
#17601
You should feel air being pushed or pulled.
spscannon
Profile Joined November 2011
146 Posts
January 13 2012 06:15 GMT
#17602
ah ok- thanks
seems like its working properly then

btw- out of curiosity, i checked my bios to change fan speeds and noticed that my bclk on the i5 2400 is at 103 mhz, cpu voltage is at 1.165V is that normal? I didn't do anything other than use the ausu h61 m-lE bios's option to set it to high performance (might have hit it's built in turbo boost but can't remember). Just want to make sure since people were saying that higher blck speeds can hurt your processor/board.

Also, what would you guys is safe gpu temperature. My gpu is a Hd Radeon 6870

Thanks again for being so helpful/patient
Dannnnn_The_Man
Profile Joined April 2011
United States166 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 06:27:21
January 13 2012 06:23 GMT
#17603
Any opinions on rasa kits?
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 06:26:08
January 13 2012 06:25 GMT
#17604
On January 13 2012 15:15 spscannon wrote:
ah ok- thanks
seems like its working properly then

btw- out of curiosity, i checked my bios to change fan speeds and noticed that my bclk on the i5 2400 is at 103 mhz, cpu voltage is at 1.165V is that normal? I didn't do anything other than use the ausu h61 m-lE bios's option to set it to high performance (might have hit it's built in turbo boost but can't remember). Just want to make sure since people were saying that higher blck speeds can hurt your processor/board.

Also, what would you guys is safe gpu temperature. My gpu is a Hd Radeon 6870

Thanks again for being so helpful/patient


For that GPU, keep it under 78C under extreme loads and you will be just fine. im pretty sure your BIOS readings are perfectly normal.


On January 13 2012 15:23 Dannnnn_The_Man wrote:
Any opinions on rasa kits?


Water cooling is usually a lot more expensive than air but not a lot better than air.
twitch.tv/medrea
Dannnnn_The_Man
Profile Joined April 2011
United States166 Posts
January 13 2012 06:33 GMT
#17605
On January 13 2012 15:25 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 15:15 spscannon wrote:
ah ok- thanks
seems like its working properly then

btw- out of curiosity, i checked my bios to change fan speeds and noticed that my bclk on the i5 2400 is at 103 mhz, cpu voltage is at 1.165V is that normal? I didn't do anything other than use the ausu h61 m-lE bios's option to set it to high performance (might have hit it's built in turbo boost but can't remember). Just want to make sure since people were saying that higher blck speeds can hurt your processor/board.

Also, what would you guys is safe gpu temperature. My gpu is a Hd Radeon 6870

Thanks again for being so helpful/patient


For that GPU, keep it under 78C under extreme loads and you will be just fine. im pretty sure your BIOS readings are perfectly normal.


Show nested quote +
On January 13 2012 15:23 Dannnnn_The_Man wrote:
Any opinions on rasa kits?


Water cooling is usually a lot more expensive than air but not a lot better than air.


Im asking for opinions on the rasa kits. I realize that it is more expensive.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
Womwomwom
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
5930 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 08:44:54
January 13 2012 08:43 GMT
#17606
They're good (there isn't really anything called a bad heatsink or watercooling block anymore - even Swiftech's low end restrictive crap works well enough) but they're twice like twice the price of the D14.

If you aren't hooking up two or more GPUs to the loop, you're going to be extremely disappointed with the results.
MarcH
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom362 Posts
January 13 2012 20:59 GMT
#17607
Hi I am after a new computer within the next month and have had a quick look through this thread and others and put together a starting point for what I want also Please bear in mind I am absolutely awe-full with anything related to computers that is not playing games on them or the internet. I aim to stream SC2 eventually and play things like BF3 etc but not too bothered about running it on top specs just smoothly. Also I need wireless on it for a few months until I get my new gaming area set up. My Budget is £1000 give or take and would aim to keep it for 2-3+ years

So

COOLERMASTER HAF 922 MID TOWER GAMING CASE

Intel® Core™i5-2500k Quad Core (3.30GHz, 6MB Cache) + HD Graphics

ASUS® P8Z68-V LX: USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs, ATI®CrossFireX

4GB KINGSTON HYPER-X GENESIS DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz X.M.P(2 x 2GB KIT)

2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti - 2 DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready

1TB SATA-II 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

12x BLU-RAY ROM DRIVE, 16x DVD ±R/±RW

600W Quiet 80 PLUS Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan

WIRELESS N PCI CARD & WIRELESS N ADSL2+ MODEM ROUTER

Asus Xonar DG 5.1 SoundCard & Headphone AMP

SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE INTEL CPU COOLER

I am planning on going through http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/ as I'm not confident in my ability to build a computer myself and looking around at other areas to purchase parts from in the UK/EU their is little difference in price between buying the parts myself and getting it through this site built for me, some sites cost more for the same stuff with no assembly.
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 21:19:01
January 13 2012 21:18 GMT
#17608
Wireless is not difficult to add, and you can add your own adapter (USB may be better anyway, or an internal card) for around £10-20.

I didn't check around everywhere, but just the usual suspects for alternatives:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-179-OE&groupid=43&catid=2040&subcat=
+ Show Spoiler [specs] +
- Case: Antec 300 Case - Black
- Power Supply: OCZ ZS 650w PSU
- CPU: Intel Core i5 2500K 3.30GHz Sandybridge overclocked to 4.40GHz
- Motherboard: Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard ** B3 REVISION **
- Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO Cooler CPU Cooler
- RAM: 4GB DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit
- Hard Drive: 500GB HDD
- Graphics Card: Choice of the latest DX11 Graphics cards
- Sound: Realtek 7.1 Channel Sound (On-Board)
- Optical Drive: Samsung SH-B123L/BSBP 12x BluRay ROM / 16x DVD±RW


+ GTX 560 Ti
+ Windows 7 Home Premium

£837.54
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 21:24:28
January 13 2012 21:22 GMT
#17609
On January 14 2012 05:59 MarcH wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

Hi I am after a new computer within the next month and have had a quick look through this thread and others and put together a starting point for what I want also Please bear in mind I am absolutely awe-full with anything related to computers that is not playing games on them or the internet. I aim to stream SC2 eventually and play things like BF3 etc but not too bothered about running it on top specs just smoothly. Also I need wireless on it for a few months until I get my new gaming area set up. My Budget is £1000 give or take and would aim to keep it for 2-3+ years

So

COOLERMASTER HAF 922 MID TOWER GAMING CASE

Intel® Core™i5-2500k Quad Core (3.30GHz, 6MB Cache) + HD Graphics

ASUS® P8Z68-V LX: USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs, ATI®CrossFireX

4GB KINGSTON HYPER-X GENESIS DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz X.M.P(2 x 2GB KIT)

2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti - 2 DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready

1TB SATA-II 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

12x BLU-RAY ROM DRIVE, 16x DVD ±R/±RW

600W Quiet 80 PLUS Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan

WIRELESS N PCI CARD & WIRELESS N ADSL2+ MODEM ROUTER

Asus Xonar DG 5.1 SoundCard & Headphone AMP

SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE INTEL CPU COOLER

I am planning on going through http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/ as I'm not confident in my ability to build a computer myself and looking around at other areas to purchase parts from in the UK/EU their is little difference in price between buying the parts myself and getting it through this site built for me, some sites cost more for the same stuff with no assembly.


I believe the 912 is a superior case to the 922 so unless it has something you want I would recommend that one.

That motherboard comes with in integrated sound card, not sure why you are purchasing another one.

Rather than 4 gigs of 1600 RAM, 8 gigs of 1333 RAM would help you a lot more.

You dont need the 2GB variation of the card unless it is coming at the same price as the 1GB version, or you are rocking some serious resolution. Even then....

Way overpowered PSU. Go with a Rosewill CAPSTONE 450W if you can find one.

EDIT: Oh is that not a builder website? Just prebuilts?
twitch.tv/medrea
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
January 13 2012 21:25 GMT
#17610
Uh, it's UK. Rosewill is pretty much just NA. (you'd be looking for the Super Flower Golden Green Pro 450W, which is the same thing under the OEM's name, but that's not common in UK but rather some of the rest of Europe)

Did you look at the power supply options? They just have the typical mystery brand units + Corsair TX650 V2 and higher.

But yeah I noticed the 1GB version was in their configuration options and cheaper, so there's no reason to get the video card version with higher VRAM, which does nothing in most setups.
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
January 13 2012 22:07 GMT
#17611
yeah I didnt realize they did prebuilts.

My opinions of the build still stands though.

No CAPSTONE makes me sad though. I thought it would be there considering Superflower isnt that popular in NA either.
twitch.tv/medrea
MarcH
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom362 Posts
January 13 2012 23:01 GMT
#17612
Thanks for the help guys you've already saved me £150
t3hwUn
Profile Joined November 2010
United States90 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 23:04:09
January 13 2012 23:03 GMT
#17613
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/sys/2798213758.html

Wowow. I'm thinking I might just go buy this right now lol

THOUGHTS?
gForce.
Profile Joined January 2010
United Kingdom345 Posts
January 13 2012 23:08 GMT
#17614
Ok, I'm truly sick of this stock fan in XFX HD6870... Gelid Solutions Icy Vision Rev.2 or Arctic Cooling Accelero TWIN TURBO II, any thoughts on these coolers? Well I can't decide...

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/arctic-cooling-accelero-twin-turbo-ii-cooler-for-nvidia-and-amd-radeon-vga-cards?utm_source=google shopping&utm_medium=google shopping


+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gelid-solutions-icy-vision-rev2-vga-cooler-for-high-end-ati-and-nvidia?utm_source=google shopping&utm_medium=google shopping
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 23:15:12
January 13 2012 23:11 GMT
#17615
On January 14 2012 08:03 t3hwUn wrote:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/sys/2798213758.html

Wowow. I'm thinking I might just go buy this right now lol

THOUGHTS?

For reference, approximate pricing of equivalent parts:
i5-2500k - $210
Tower heatsink with 120mm fan for overclocking - $30
P67 motherboard for overclocking - $100
2 x 4GB DDR3 RAM - $35
1TB 7200rpm hard drive - $120 (used to cost about half before Thailand floods)
HD 6850 - $140
Power supply - $45 (the Thermaltake TR2 600W is probably one of the older, poor models not worth its price)
HAF 912 - $60
Optical drive - $20
Windows 7 - $100



edit:
On January 14 2012 08:08 gForce. wrote:
Ok, I'm truly sick of this stock fan in XFX HD6870... Gelid Solutions Icy Vision Rev.2 or Arctic Cooling Accelero TWIN TURBO II, any thoughts on these coolers? Well I can't decide...

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/arctic-cooling-accelero-twin-turbo-ii-cooler-for-nvidia-and-amd-radeon-vga-cards?utm_source=google shopping&utm_medium=google shopping


+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gelid-solutions-icy-vision-rev2-vga-cooler-for-high-end-ati-and-nvidia?utm_source=google shopping&utm_medium=google shopping

Does the XFX use the reference PCB or otherwise have the same dimensions and GPU placement for mounting? i.e. is it going to fit?

On a side note, they used a Gelid Icy Vision here on an HD 6870...and had to use a fan controller to make it as quiet as the rest of the system (and with low fan speeds, temperatures still were great), but somehow I doubt your system is as quiet as the one below:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1221-page4.html
t3hwUn
Profile Joined November 2010
United States90 Posts
January 13 2012 23:14 GMT
#17616
On January 14 2012 08:11 Myrmidon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 08:03 t3hwUn wrote:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/sys/2798213758.html

Wowow. I'm thinking I might just go buy this right now lol

THOUGHTS?

For reference, approximate pricing of equivalent parts:
i5-2500k - $210
Tower heatsink with 120mm fan for overclocking - $30
P67 motherboard for overclocking - $100
2 x 4GB DDR3 RAM - $35
1TB 7200rpm hard drive - $120 (used to cost about half before Thailand floods)
HD 6850 - $140
Power supply - $45 (the Thermaltake TR2 600W is probably one of the older, poor models not worth its price)
HAF 912 - $60
Optical drive - $20
Windows 7 - $100


indeed. seems like a good build for the price. just thought id post to see if anyone had any major objections. I think they power supply will be fine, if not i'll just replace it
jacosajh
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
2919 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 23:16:48
January 13 2012 23:15 GMT
#17617
On January 14 2012 08:11 Myrmidon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2012 08:03 t3hwUn wrote:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/sys/2798213758.html

Wowow. I'm thinking I might just go buy this right now lol

THOUGHTS?

For reference, approximate pricing of equivalent parts:
i5-2500k - $210
Tower heatsink with 120mm fan for overclocking - $30
P67 motherboard for overclocking - $100
2 x 4GB DDR3 RAM - $35
1TB 7200rpm hard drive - $120 (used to cost about half before Thailand floods)
HD 6850 - $140
Power supply - $45 (the Thermaltake TR2 600W is probably one of the older, poor models not worth its price)
HAF 912 - $60
Optical drive - $20
Windows 7 - $100


Not only that but it's not even a legit copy of Windows 7. So I wouldn't even count it in the pricing. Plus it's used and ~$760 when not factoring Windows 7. Taking a computer system that wost most likely built for overclocking + used would take the value down significantly. I have a similar rig and I wouldn't expect more than $500. And my PSU isn't crap.
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
January 13 2012 23:19 GMT
#17618
Yeah you're right...I missed that there's no Windows license. Take it what you will. Different people will value the time spent building (shouldn't be long), potential DOA and RMAs necessary, warranty on individual components, etc. differently, so for these kinds of valuations, I hesitate to just say a "yes" or "no."

It's not a particularly good deal out of the ordinary, that's for sure.
jacosajh
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
2919 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 23:25:06
January 13 2012 23:23 GMT
#17619
Yeah, that's true. I guess if you absolutely couldn't put one together yourself or was in a hurry (and he could show that everything actually worked), it might be worth it.

But I would do my best to get it below $600.

I always keep UPC's on components and the receipts associated with them in case I ever needed to run an RMA or warranty. If he still has these and they are valid for quite some time still, I might just take it as is. Who knows, maybe he built it recently for someone and they didn't pay up.
t3hwUn
Profile Joined November 2010
United States90 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-13 23:28:01
January 13 2012 23:27 GMT
#17620
He has all boxes and receipts. And yes the reason I'm thinking of buying is that I am in a hurry and don't really want to wait and build it all lol

and yes all he has done is built it and installed drivers and windows. its not a used computer
Prev 1 879 880 881 882 883 1626 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 4m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft546
NeuroSwarm 221
RuFF_SC2 182
ProTech116
Nina 91
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 4395
NaDa 50
Bale 18
Counter-Strike
summit1g10838
Coldzera 1133
minikerr31
Other Games
JimRising 531
C9.Mang0216
ViBE211
Maynarde196
XaKoH 146
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2938
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH300
• davetesta34
• mYiSmile17
• Mapu4
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra2036
• Lourlo885
• Rush735
• Stunt179
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 4m
CrankTV Team League
7h 4m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
CrankTV Team League
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
RSL Revival
2 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
3 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.