• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:12
CET 17:12
KST 01:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada2SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time? RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close"
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1857 users

Thesis to Increase Macro and Innovation - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
dabman
Profile Joined March 2008
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-04 11:24:10
December 04 2008 11:19 GMT
#61
I sort of like the conception of these ideas. Just to add my two cents:

Tentacles: The Zerg "tentacles" could be more than just additional macro. It could also be a defensive strategy against attacks such as a storm drop. The tentacles would be immune to storm, and thus a Zerg player with a tentacle-mining base would not have to worry so much about abrupt stops in harvesting. The necessity for making tentacles should be properly balanced so that a scouting Zerg player would weigh-in the decision about making tentacles early if he sees templar tech.

The tentacles themselves should cost minerals, either by permanently using a drone to morph, or being built from the hatchery. The added macro would come from the fact that there would be 8-10 mineral patches, and you would not be able to immediately create tentacles for every one. There would also be no horrible penalty for not making tentacles; after all, once the minerals run out, the tentacles are lost value. In general, tentacles would be the way to go if you had the APM to rush back to base from time-to-time to add another tentacle.

Tentacles should be destroyable so as to add more options to an invading army. Do I have enough time to take down the whole hatchery, or should I take out as many tentacles while I still have troops in Zerg's base?

To sum up tentacles: tentacles would provide certain defensive advantages (vs. templar, etc.), and boost mineral production for the cost of minerals and APM.

Protoss Mineral Harvest: While I liked the idea of this, I think it needs more work done to further diversify it from the Zerg Tentacle idea. One idea I thought of would be a mini-warpgate (I'll dub them a name like "mineral-fold" or "minefold") buildable by probes upon each mineral patch. Instead of bringing the minerals to the nexus, the probe would actually blink off the screen - transferring minerals to some other Protoss nexus across the galaxy - and blink back to immediately begin harvesting again. The result would be quicker mineral harvesting, but at the cost of a minefold for each mineral patch. The macro component would come in to play because a player couldn't simply spend all their initial minerals on minefolds at once. The construction would have to be dispersed over a period of time, dependent on the developing military conflict. There would be natural bonuses for these minefolds: if probes are off the screen half the time, speed/targeting-dependent economy harasses would be less optimal. Additionally, if the Protoss Nexus is destroyed, probes would still be able to mine any patches with minefolds! (certainly mineral-folds would not be buildable until a nexus is first built.) These benefits would have to be outweighed by the cost or time required to build a minefold. For example, when a probe starts construction of a minefold, that mineral patch could be un-mine-able until completion. The Protoss simply wouldn't want to convert all mineral patches to minefolds at once, since this would result in a deadly delay in harvesting.

To sum up minefolds: Probes build "minefolds" on individual mineral patches to decrease harvest transport time and thus increase production. "Minefolds" grant additional defensive features. The cost is minerals/APM.

That was my (more than) two cents, glad to see some exciting ideas about increasing macro in this tread!
nataziel
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Australia1455 Posts
December 04 2008 14:34 GMT
#62
Oh, so you're saying that the tentacles and minefold thingos are there in addition to normal probe/drone mining?
u gotta sk8
dabman
Profile Joined March 2008
United States17 Posts
December 04 2008 21:05 GMT
#63
They would replace probe/drone mining slowly if deemed necessary by the player. For example, if an intense early-game battle begins the match, it may not be economically worth it to convert the half-mined-out main. It also might not be worth it if you're a very micro-centered person. But if you're capable of handling the extra APM required to convert harvesting to tentacles/mineral-folds while battles occur, you would benefit with faster mineral harvesting.

For Zerg, the drone would metamorph into the tentacle. The incentive is faster production, but at the loss of the mobility and versatility of a drone. For Protoss, the probes would mine as units, they would just have a boosted production rate since they wouldn't have to physically transport the minerals.

For expansions, there would still be an incentive to send drones/probes so that mining can begin immediately after hatchery/nexus is put up. This mechanic would definitely not replace the importance of drones/probes in the SC economy.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-06 05:10:10
December 04 2008 22:53 GMT
#64
So your saying something like the drone latches itself onto a hatchery and basically upgrades to a stationary mineral line?
Love it!
I can picture the tenticle bursting out of its back now.

Addendum 12/06/08: Added Community Feedback Section
"Dabman suggests allowing drones to upgrade into tentacles. I had originally conceived of tentacles as replacing drones but I like dabman’s version better. For a mineral price drones could mutate into a tentacle. They would latch onto a hatchery and a tentacle would shoot out of there back. The player controlled action could be the player selecting the drone, clicking morph tentacle and then selecting the hatchery. The player would also select a mineral line for the tentacle to latch onto. The tentacle would then function as a more efficient worker line. The player has now freed up all the workers that were mining that mineral patch and can use them for building production or send them to expansions. Dabman further suggest the mechanic be implemented in such a way that does not compromise the necessity of drones in zerg gameplay."
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
dabman
Profile Joined March 2008
United States17 Posts
December 06 2008 04:59 GMT
#65
Wow, that does sound extra cool the way you put it. I'm sure it could be animated to be as disgusting as possible.
hooktits
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States972 Posts
December 06 2008 05:39 GMT
#66
nice gunt
Hooktits of Tits gaming @hooktits twit
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
16:00
Masters Cup #150: Group A
TKL 364
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 364
MindelVK 3
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24513
Calm 3855
Shuttle 806
Soma 784
ZerO 588
Stork 527
firebathero 325
Rush 232
hero 200
Sharp 137
[ Show more ]
Barracks 127
sSak 88
Killer 73
Aegong 40
Backho 35
Mong 28
ToSsGirL 25
Free 21
Terrorterran 18
zelot 17
Sexy 14
Dota 2
singsing2447
Dendi1122
BananaSlamJamma179
XcaliburYe116
Counter-Strike
oskar135
markeloff52
FunKaTv 33
Other Games
B2W.Neo738
hiko688
DeMusliM362
Hui .347
Lowko334
crisheroes228
Sick203
Fuzer 194
ArmadaUGS148
Liquid`VortiX142
Trikslyr25
ZerO(Twitch)14
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
WardiTV506
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 23
• Adnapsc2 19
• Reevou 2
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2843
League of Legends
• Nemesis3233
• TFBlade804
Other Games
• WagamamaTV315
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 48m
Replay Cast
16h 48m
Kung Fu Cup
19h 48m
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 6h
The PondCast
1d 17h
RSL Revival
1d 17h
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
1d 19h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 19h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
BSL 21
4 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
BSL 21
5 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.