If the ESL tour is discontinued, how much are you willing…

On January 08 2025 04:15 Balnazza wrote:


While I don't want to turn this into an argument about your specific case and I'm always aware that the "nice guys" on streams can be quite different off-camera (no particular experience in SC2, but I've had that revelation a few times back in my own casting career...and probably was somewhat of an arrogant ass myself, hard to judge)...it is equally hard to judge your case, as you might expect, since we all don't know what exactly happened.
Just a few pointers:
- In a chat with 100-300 viewers depending on the day, it can be hard for the streamer to follow the conversation. Especially if you didn't use the exact words you said, but a bit mor flowery language.
- If you got banned "for this" and not just timeouted, you clearly were not a known viewer. Of course you ban people who you don't know and who seem disrespectful right from the get-go. Also explains why no one spoke out for you...why would anyone defend some random (no offense).
- It doesn't particularly help your case that you are obviously quite butthurt about this...always sparks the "are you forgetting some parts of the story"-vibes


But in a more general sense:
I would say it is obvious that the SC2 casters are quite passionate about the game and that is generally enough for me. Rotterdam, Zombiegrub, Pig and co. are probably the last people I would blame for the decay of SC2

On January 08 2025 03:49 Pascal1p wrote:
My love for sc2 is gone, there are too little players I am invested in and in my opinion the casters also have ruined it.

For example, I was a big fan of Rotterdam. But I got banned from his channel for objectively bad reasons.

Someone in his chat was badmouthing BikeRush from CnC (who was at that time in the chat, enjoying sc2 as well). I said in chat: "a little more respect for one of the big names in another RTS".
I got banned right that moment.
So I had send an immediate request with asking: why I was banned?
And then Rotterdam on his stream said: I am not going to unbann something who calls me disrespectul.
Everyone knew I did not refer to Rotterdam, but no one spoke up for me. Plus I was always in chat and behaved nicely and with my behavior had shown I respected him. So it weird to get disqualified on one moment.

Anyways this for me speaks volume about sc2, the scene consists of many people who can be quite toxic towards chat and also cannot take any criticism (with irony being this was not even directed at him).

On January 08 2025 05:30 Pietro1906 wrote:


The ban was in october of 2020. Honestly impressive it took mr. Pascal over 4 years to lose his love for sc2 after this traumatic experience. The user also had a previous timeout and a history of questionable messages.
The "badmouthing" was also apparently a fellow chatter calling BikeRush "some guy". This level of disrespect is truly immeasurable.

On January 08 2025 05:37 WombaT wrote:

Aye I’m sure you were totally hard done by and weren’t just being an arsehole.

Streamers love banning viewers who make up their income after all. And everyone who cops a ban was being totally respectful and not abrasive

On January 08 2025 07:41 Balnazza wrote:
This feels...odd. Like SC2 players are not mature enough to make their own life choices and by giving them money we are somehow enabling them?
A lot of Esports runs "artifically" like this. Broodwar, WC3 and AoE 2 for the longest time. But sometimes, if the community keeps it up long enough, occassionally a bigger player joins in and gives some sweet-sweet offline tournament. The biggest example for me being AoE 2 and the RedBull Wololo. The scene was so far off from being professional, yet RedBull sponsored an entire circuit that culminated in the best produced RTS tournament of all time. They played Age of Empires 2 in a freaking CASTLE in Germany. It was so over-the-top epic.
...sorry, I just always get really hyped up when thinkin about the Wololo offline finals. But my point stands: There is nothing "artifical" about a community paying the scene. It's how Esport started, it is how most sports run on amateur level. In fact, it is probably much more artifical to have either the Saudis, the company behind the game or any other company put money into a scene without it being profitable.

On January 08 2025 12:04 Balnazza wrote:


So people should not support players in a game they like on the offchance that some random new RTS will show up and be the next LoL? Pretty sure the chance of SC2 getting cool offline events even without ESL is still tremendously higher than the next RTS turning up in the next year.

And as AoE 4 has proven: Players are willing to give any new RTS a chance, just to see how it works for them and on the offchance it might be a financial success. Which no RTS since SC2 (and technically AoE 2 Definitive Edition) has been.

On January 08 2025 12:04 Balnazza wrote:


So people should not support players in a game they like on the offchance that some random new RTS will show up and be the next LoL? Pretty sure the chance of SC2 getting cool offline events even without ESL is still tremendously higher than the next RTS turning up in the next year.

And as AoE 4 has proven: Players are willing to give any new RTS a chance, just to see how it works for them and on the offchance it might be a financial success. Which no RTS since SC2 (and technically AoE 2 Definitive Edition) has been.

On January 08 2025 12:21 CicadaSC wrote:


Stormgate could be that game. Zerospace could be that game. Battle Aces could be that game. I think what he's saying is if we let SC2 have a peaceful death and go to one of the new games with open arms and deep pockets we can have new glory days. So instead of investing, let's say collectively $25,000 in SC2, let's put it into battle aces. Then if you get a bunch of tournaments players will come. Top players. Did u see showtime talk about this? He said what would it take for pro players to switch over to stormgate? It's as simple as money.

On January 08 2025 10:14 luxon wrote:
As other posters have said, its hard to make a meaningful difference in a scene like this, so prob nothing. A better question is: how much $ would i give to return to the glory days of sc2 or have it be as large as fortnite or LoL or whatever is large now, and unironically, I would prob give up a year of my CA post-tax tech salary for that. But would I take that same $ to prop up a corpse scene where all the good players are gone and pay basically the top 3 foreigners' salaries? Nah.

Re: the general point of blaming bad casters/community (not litigating the one guy, just a general point Chariman Wax)
I think despite their foibles, they are clearly keeping the scene alive. Wardi is the worst example of this, he is the worst caster I've ever seen, unknowledgeable and ALWAYS misses the action because he never watches the minimap, and I keep getting banned for asking him to "watch the minimap plz", BUT he puts on a ton of tourneys and creates content. So I keep my mouth shut and ad block off when I watch him (on mute).
Same with Rotti, Steadfast, PiG, etc. They are not wealthy by any means but gave hundreds of $ of their own money every week to sustain the weekly cups. Thats an enormous fraction of their income, going to pay Clem who let's face it, makes more than them. All to put on a show for fans. So despite their personal foibles, they are kind of the only good thing left.

On January 08 2025 18:42 SharkStarcraft wrote:


I pretty much agree 100% with this. I ain't paying any money so that Clem can remain one of like 5 people who can make a living off of SC2. Also, unfortunately, as the game declined, the best presenting/casting talent also left, and while I truly and wholeheartedly appreciate and respect Wardi for what he is doing for the community, I just can't bring myself to listen to his poorly informed and unentertaining commentary.

I'll always love SC2, but the current scene is just not appealing to me anymore.

On January 08 2025 16:14 Balnazza wrote:
Also, as a personal note...this feels like such a uniquely SC2 perspective, it's really hard to understand for me. When SC2 came out and every big name left the WC3 scene, never did the thought of "we continue to work in the WC3 space and therefore are hurting SC2" cross my mind. We also were never critisized for it. And neither did I ever hear that sentiment in the AoE community.