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TLDR: just get rid of the prematch MMR display so that all players can have a balanced experience, it has no role in the game.
I don't even know why this is in the game but it's really hurting the ladder experience.
1. It's bugged. About 20% of the time it displays a different MMR rating pre and post game, with the mismatch in the hundreds of points.
2. It encourages players to leave games. The ladder is not what it once was and it's pretty common to get matched up against players either way above or way under your skill level. Fine, but if you tell me how screwed I am even before the game started what's the point in even playing. I've left plenty of games when I see my opponents up 400-500 MMR, and I've had players left game vs me when there's a mismatch. At least let both of us go in blind, play to our best abilities and not let that knowledge that we're outmatched affect our play.
3. It affects gameplay. Typically if another player see that they're highly favored, but the opponent chooses to stay, they'll assume some kind of cheese is coming and play a bit more careful.
4. By the same token it encourages troll play when you know you're way better than your opponents.
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Northern Ireland26763 Posts
In an ideal world a big mismatch where you’re the underdog should see you get your game face on and really go all-out for the challenge.
As we’re very much not in an ideal world I can certainly see the merits of your suggestion
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My rule is thumb is that if another player is within 200 MMR of mine it can go either way, but when the diff is 400-500 there's literally no chance. It's high school basketball versus NBA player at that point. It's not fun.
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On June 24 2024 00:04 jade9341 wrote:
My rule is thumb is that if another player is within 200 MMR of mine it can go either way, but when the diff is 400-500 there's literally no chance. It's high school basketball versus NBA player at that point. It's not fun.
If only this was true I would never have lost 60 mmr to a baneling bust.
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On June 23 2024 23:10 jade9341 wrote:
1. It's bugged. About 20% of the time it displays a different MMR rating pre and post game, with the mismatch in the hundreds of points.
doesn't this just mean that the opponent is playing unranked, since Blizz chose to show the higher of the two regardless of the game mode?
There was definitely a calculated decision to only show MMR for masters+ players, so that most people are unaffected. I think I like it on average, so I know whether a game is going to be a mismatch ahead of time.
And I definitely like seeing MMR in streams, there's nothing like seeing a 7.2k opponent pop up and knowing we're about to watch a game vs Serral hahaha.
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Good points OP and agreed, felt the same about these as well. It does more to hurt the experience than help, and isn't necessary at all.
Perhaps if the MMR was accurate, we can have a discussion, but since it's broken it'd be absolutely better to just exclude it.
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On June 24 2024 00:04 jade9341 wrote:
when the diff is 400-500 there's literally no chance. It's high school basketball versus NBA player at that point. It's not fun.
I don't think that's an accurate comparison. The gap between a high school basketball player and an NBA player is unfathomably large (unless you're those once in a generation talent like Lebron or MJ). You can take games off people 400-500 MMR higher than you. Not a high amount, maybe 1 out of 10, at worst 1 out of 100. A high school player isn't touching an NBA player.
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i'm on the opposite, i'd like to see it on my noob level.
maybe make it an option, off by default (maybe set to on one time for masters when the patch hits).
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It's bugged. About 20% of the time it displays a different MMR rating pre and post game
Lol no, those are people who are playing unranked 🤦. I've played 200k games across all 3 servers and it's never been wrong once.
Showing mmr is prob the best thing that happened to ladder. I would be in favor of them showing if someone is playing unranked though.
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On June 24 2024 06:46 luxon wrote:Show nested quote +It's bugged. About 20% of the time it displays a different MMR rating pre and post game Lol no, those are people who are playing unranked 🤦. I've played 200k games across all 3 servers and it's never been wrong once. Showing mmr is prob the best thing that happened to ladder. I would be in favor of them showing if someone is playing unranked though.
My point stands, what's the point of showing a completely meaningless number then. I'm about 4400 MMR and more than a few times I've left games when the prematch number shows I'm up against a 4900+, only to realize in the post match screen that they're like 4200 and I've tossed away points for nothing. It should just show their actual MMR.
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On June 24 2024 04:41 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2024 00:04 jade9341 wrote:
when the diff is 400-500 there's literally no chance. It's high school basketball versus NBA player at that point. It's not fun. I don't think that's an accurate comparison. The gap between a high school basketball player and an NBA player is unfathomably large (unless you're those once in a generation talent like Lebron or MJ). You can take games off people 400-500 MMR higher than you. Not a high amount, maybe 1 out of 10, at worst 1 out of 100. A high school player isn't touching an NBA player.
Sure, it's a bit hyperbolic here, so but doesn't change my original point. At that gap your odds of winning aren't great and it's generally a stomping.
The ladder is doing some strange thing as at one point I legit made it to Grandmaster for a day, not sure how that happended.
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On June 24 2024 08:41 jade9341 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2024 06:46 luxon wrote:It's bugged. About 20% of the time it displays a different MMR rating pre and post game Lol no, those are people who are playing unranked 🤦. I've played 200k games across all 3 servers and it's never been wrong once. Showing mmr is prob the best thing that happened to ladder. I would be in favor of them showing if someone is playing unranked though. My point stands, what's the point of showing a completely meaningless number then. I'm about 4400 MMR and more than a few times I've left games when the prematch number shows I'm up against a 4900+, only to realize in the post match screen that they're like 4200 and I've tossed away points for nothing. It should just show their actual MMR.
Or you could simply play the game and try to win no matter what? I seriously don't get this mentality especially in anything that could be considered a competitive atmosphere. Imagine getting to play against someone better perhaps learning a few things or at least exposing your biggest weakness so you can better focus on it in the future, but instead you throw the experience away because of some numbers on a pre-game screen.
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On June 23 2024 23:10 jade9341 wrote:
TLDR: just get rid of the prematch MMR display so that all players can have a balanced experience, it has no role in the game.
I don't even know why this is in the game but it's really hurting the ladder experience.
1. It's bugged. About 20% of the time it displays a different MMR rating pre and post game, with the mismatch in the hundreds of points.
2. It encourages players to leave games. The ladder is not what it once was and it's pretty common to get matched up against players either way above or way under your skill level. Fine, but if you tell me how screwed I am even before the game started what's the point in even playing. I've left plenty of games when I see my opponents up 400-500 MMR, and I've had players left game vs me when there's a mismatch. At least let both of us go in blind, play to our best abilities and not let that knowledge that we're outmatched affect our play.
3. It affects gameplay. Typically if another player see that they're highly favored, but the opponent chooses to stay, they'll assume some kind of cheese is coming and play a bit more careful.
4. By the same token it encourages troll play when you know you're way better than your opponents.
MMR displayed is nice. Just because u having a problem with knowing that the opponent may be better they should remove MMR? StarCraft is a competitive game. Knowing the MMR gives both players the same information. U say the opponent plays extra carefully cause of cheese so play extra greedy? They troll u cause of MMR? Maybe u aren’t in your MMR level and haven’t played enough games if u get outclassed so hard. And what exactly is trolling for u gameplay wise.Also the MMR is not bugged. U have unranked MMR and ranked. If his unranked MMR shows 4900 he is 4900 unranked MMR.
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On June 24 2024 04:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Good points OP and agreed, felt the same about these as well. It does more to hurt the experience than help, and isn't necessary at all.
Perhaps if the MMR was accurate, we can have a discussion, but since it's broken it'd be absolutely better to just exclude it.
On which part should it be broken ? There is unranked and ranked MMR.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2024 11:28 Maksim2010 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2024 04:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Good points OP and agreed, felt the same about these as well. It does more to hurt the experience than help, and isn't necessary at all.
Perhaps if the MMR was accurate, we can have a discussion, but since it's broken it'd be absolutely better to just exclude it. On which part should it be broken? There is unranked and ranked MMR.
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On June 24 2024 08:46 jade9341 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2024 04:41 phodacbiet wrote:On June 24 2024 00:04 jade9341 wrote:
when the diff is 400-500 there's literally no chance. It's high school basketball versus NBA player at that point. It's not fun. I don't think that's an accurate comparison. The gap between a high school basketball player and an NBA player is unfathomably large (unless you're those once in a generation talent like Lebron or MJ). You can take games off people 400-500 MMR higher than you. Not a high amount, maybe 1 out of 10, at worst 1 out of 100. A high school player isn't touching an NBA player. Sure, it's a bit hyperbolic here, so but doesn't change my original point. At that gap your odds of winning aren't great and it's generally a stomping. The ladder is doing some strange thing as at one point I legit made it to Grandmaster for a day, not sure how that happended.
As a viewer, I prefer to be able to better identify who the players might be without having to look at external websites like sc2revealed or sc2pulse.
And for the players, removing the showing of the MMR pre-fight would not change ANYTHING if how the system pairs opponents does not change. Unless something critical happens, I don't see Blizzard even batting an eye on that.
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On June 24 2024 08:41 jade9341 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2024 06:46 luxon wrote:It's bugged. About 20% of the time it displays a different MMR rating pre and post game Lol no, those are people who are playing unranked 🤦. I've played 200k games across all 3 servers and it's never been wrong once. Showing mmr is prob the best thing that happened to ladder. I would be in favor of them showing if someone is playing unranked though. My point stands, what's the point of showing a completely meaningless number then. I'm about 4400 MMR and more than a few times I've left games when the prematch number shows I'm up against a 4900+, only to realize in the post match screen that they're like 4200 and I've tossed away points for nothing. It should just show their actual MMR.
The fact that you are leaving games because you perceive someone is higher ranked is a personal problem that you should work on, not an issue with the ladder system showing mmr. It would be no different if you saw a border of a league higher than yours. Most of the people on this forum remember when mmr was entirely hidden. This way is much better.
On June 24 2024 08:46 jade9341 wrote:
Sure, it's a bit hyperbolic here, so but doesn't change my original point. At that gap your odds of winning aren't great and it's generally a stomping.
The ladder is doing some strange thing as at one point I legit made it to Grandmaster for a day, not sure how that happended.
You fully admit that you don't understand how the system works. At least put in the minimum effort to learn how the system works before making suggestions about how to change it.
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Ask any competitive players if knowing your opponent skill level affects their play and they’ll say yes.
Ladder is stressful enough as it without going into a game knowing you are the heavy underdog. This is not just a “me” problem as I’ve described but I’ve had a ton of players left games against me for the same reason. If you just keep the MMR anonymous until the post match screen, then both players go into match on an equal mental footing, there would be less cases of people leaving games, and overall everyone would have a better time.
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On June 24 2024 15:24 jade9341 wrote:
Ask any competitive players if knowing your opponent skill level affects their play and they’ll say yes.
Ladder is stressful enough as it without going into a game knowing you are the heavy underdog. This is not just a “me” problem as I’ve described but I’ve had a ton of players left games against me for the same reason. If you just keep the MMR anonymous until the post match screen, then both players go into match on an equal mental footing, there would be less cases of people leaving games, and overall everyone would have a better time.
Names of said pro players ? Afaik mental is part of the game, starting with a self-defeating attitude only because if a minor detail (because this is minor), why bother playing in the first place. Dodging games because of that is even worse.
The focus should be on map balancing instead, and that's what they're trying to do with the TLMC contests. Esp the 2v2 who desperately need some refreshing.
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Northern Ireland26763 Posts
As with a fair few trends in modern gaming I really think just giving the user options is the better course of action.
Some folks like the extra info, some prefer to not see it if it tilts or frustrates them.
A fair few games I’ve played in recent years kinda hide all sorts, your kill/death ratios, win/loss and whatnot. Personally I love having as many stats as possible to geek over, but I do get that some folks don’t for whatever reason
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This is something that should be a toggleable option.
Another example would be skins: I can't (quickly) tell the difference between Dropperlords and Overlords or Immortals and Stalkers when my opponent has certain skins active, but I can't toggle off skins because ???
Blizzard aren't going to be making updates like this though. The game is on life-support.
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On June 24 2024 17:42 MJG wrote:This is something that should be a toggleable option. Another example would be skins: I can't (quickly) tell the difference between Dropperlords and Overlords or Immortals and Stalkers when my opponent has certain skins active, but I can't toggle off skins because ??? Blizzard aren't going to be making updates like this though. The game is on life-support.
You usually can't toggle skins in games because a reason to buy skins can be to kind of brag about them. Defeats the purpose if someone spends 500 bucks to buy the new Ahri-skin and your opponent just toggles it off. Pretty sure no game that has skins allows you to toggle them.
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EPT
