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France12971 Posts
On September 17 2025 08:28 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote: 2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years Being the best Terran isn’t carrying. He played a fucking TvT final in 2018 GSL how is he carrying? TY subsequently won two of them, Cure got one and made finals. It’s a complete myth. Moon legitimately had a claim to being the fifth race in WC3, Maru’s knockoff nick isn’t really deserved.
Just take a look at 2018 earnings for terran then if you don't believe me?
Nobody won anything that year for T, besides Maru
One GSL finals for TY in 2018 doesn't change that fact
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On September 17 2025 08:35 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 08:28 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years Being the best Terran isn’t carrying. He played a fucking TvT final in 2018 GSL how is he carrying? TY subsequently won two of them, Cure got one and made finals. It’s a complete myth. Moon legitimately had a claim to being the fifth race in WC3, Maru’s knockoff nick isn’t really deserved. Just take a look at 2018 earnings for terran then if you don't believe me? Nobody won anything that year for T, besides Maru One GSL finals for TY in 2018 doesn't change that fact
GSL in 2018, Terrans in the Ro8:
Season 1: 4 Terrans
Season 2: 3 Terrans (and all Terrans got knocked out by Maru btw)
Season 3: 1 Terran (though that one had Scarlett in the Ro8 so clearly it was a trash-tournament for trash-people, as we all know foreigners could never do anything against the almighty Koreans!!!1)
So how exactly did Maru hard-carry his race in 2018? Don't confuse this please: Marus 2018 was amazing, but it does not have much to do with him being "the fifth race" or whatever. And yes, in terms of earning, Maru made a huge chunk of Terran-money that year...but Terran overall was just barely behind Protoss. Mostly btw because Terran did really well in the A-Tier section, plus ofc Maru was winning all the big prizepools except of course the most important one. Btw, in the World Finals we also had 3 Terrans in the Ro8, all getting eliminated there...though somehow the "Terran Hope" was the only one going 0-3, even SpeCial managed to get a map of off Stats...
Than you mentioned 2019...a year in which Maru didn't even earn the most money across Terran (Innovation). And if we look at GSL:
Season 1: 3 Terrans (Maru won this one)
Season 2: 1 Terran...so the Terran Hope could shi- aaaand it was Innovation, Maru didn't even make it to the Ro16
Season 3: 3 Terrans, atleast Maru got Top 4 this time
This time atleast he was the only Terran in the WCS Ro8, losing to Dark. Okay, that's fair, Dark bombed everyone in the playoffs.
To shorten the rest:
2020: TY wins more money than Maru, also wins 2 out of 3 GSLs. Not even sure where Marus money is coming from that year tbh
2021: Clem wins slightly more money than Maru, Cure is the only Terran GSL-winner that year.
2022: Maru finally takes the top spot for Terran this year, though Clem wins more S-Tier tournaments and that includes the fact Clem had to win against Serral and Reynor, the two eventual World Championship finalists
2023: Maru wins barely (like, 800 bucks) more money than Clem, but less than Oliveira. Who also becomes World Champion that year.
2024: I mean...Clem dominates the Prizepool ranking because of EWC, but this year has two stories for Terran. Story A is "can Maru ever win a map against Serral ever again?" and Story B "will Clem ever lose another series again?"
2025: Year is not over of course, but Clem and Cure outperform Maru so far in terms of Prizemoney. And honestly, is anyone really feeling it right now for Maru this year?
Long story short: There is absolutely no indication that Maru carried Terran for five years...any five years for that matter. He is probably by statistic, but clearly by feeling the best Terran from 2018 and onwards, but as WombaT said...being the best and carrying the race are two very, very different things.
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From 2018 to the end of 2022 I count 65 premier events excluding region locked events. I count 16 Terran wins and out of those I see 11 for Maru, 2 for Inno, 2 for TY, 1 for Cure. Looking at finalists I count 30 total Terran final appearances with Maru being 17 of them. If that doesn't count as carrying a race then I'm not sure what does. Certainly nothing Serral has ever done would count as carrying Zerg then.
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On September 17 2025 09:12 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 08:35 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:28 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years Being the best Terran isn’t carrying. He played a fucking TvT final in 2018 GSL how is he carrying? TY subsequently won two of them, Cure got one and made finals. It’s a complete myth. Moon legitimately had a claim to being the fifth race in WC3, Maru’s knockoff nick isn’t really deserved. Just take a look at 2018 earnings for terran then if you don't believe me? Nobody won anything that year for T, besides Maru One GSL finals for TY in 2018 doesn't change that fact GSL in 2018, Terrans in the Ro8: Season 1: 4 Terrans Season 2: 3 Terrans (and all Terrans got knocked out by Maru btw) Season 3: 1 Terran (though that one had Scarlett in the Ro8 so clearly it was a trash-tournament for trash-people, as we all know foreigners could never do anything against the almighty Koreans!!!1) So how exactly did Maru hard-carry his race in 2018? Don't confuse this please: Marus 2018 was amazing, but it does not have much to do with him being "the fifth race" or whatever. And yes, in terms of earning, Maru made a huge chunk of Terran-money that year...but Terran overall was just barely behind Protoss. Mostly btw because Terran did really well in the A-Tier section, plus ofc Maru was winning all the big prizepools except of course the most important one. Btw, in the World Finals we also had 3 Terrans in the Ro8, all getting eliminated there...though somehow the "Terran Hope" was the only one going 0-3, even SpeCial managed to get a map of off Stats... Than you mentioned 2019...a year in which Maru didn't even earn the most money across Terran (Innovation). And if we look at GSL: Season 1: 3 Terrans (Maru won this one) Season 2: 1 Terran...so the Terran Hope could shi- aaaand it was Innovation, Maru didn't even make it to the Ro16 Season 3: 3 Terrans, atleast Maru got Top 4 this time This time atleast he was the only Terran in the WCS Ro8, losing to Dark. Okay, that's fair, Dark bombed everyone in the playoffs. To shorten the rest: 2020: TY wins more money than Maru, also wins 2 out of 3 GSLs. Not even sure where Marus money is coming from that year tbh 2021: Clem wins slightly more money than Maru, Cure is the only Terran GSL-winner that year. 2022: Maru finally takes the top spot for Terran this year, though Clem wins more S-Tier tournaments and that includes the fact Clem had to win against Serral and Reynor, the two eventual World Championship finalists 2023: Maru wins barely (like, 800 bucks) more money than Clem, but less than Oliveira. Who also becomes World Champion that year. 2024: I mean...Clem dominates the Prizepool ranking because of EWC, but this year has two stories for Terran. Story A is "can Maru ever win a map against Serral ever again?" and Story B "will Clem ever lose another series again?" 2025: Year is not over of course, but Clem and Cure outperform Maru so far in terms of Prizemoney. And honestly, is anyone really feeling it right now for Maru this year? Long story short: There is absolutely no indication that Maru carried Terran for five years...any five years for that matter. He is probably by statistic, but clearly by feeling the best Terran from 2018 and onwards, but as WombaT said...being the best and carrying the race are two very, very different things.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/XrrBEb2.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ekvsJFI.png)
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On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense.
Inno won the GSL after terran got buffed and terran performance improved significantly (and I think TaeJa too but would have to fact check). I remember that was the running joke back then that Maru would always perform well when terran was weak and Inno would always perform well when terran was strong.
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On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years
I can agree on from 2018 onwards until the rise of Clement (somewhere in 2023 I guess), from all the Terrans, Maru had the highest chance of winning a tournament he entered.
So yes Maru can be considered the best Terran over a span of 5+ years. Did he carry? I don't think so. Most of the big titles were won by other Terrans (Oli, Clem, Inno)
Fair to say for most part even Serral didn't carry his race. He always had a peer (Rogoue, Dark, Reynor) and Serral was by far the favorite to win every tournament he entered from all races
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On September 17 2025 16:19 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years I can agree on from 2018 onwards until the rise of Clement (somewhere in 2023 I guess), from all the Terrans, Maru had the highest chance of winning a tournament he entered. So yes Maru can be considered the best Terran over a span of 5+ years. Did he carry? I don't think so. Most of the big titles were won by other Terrans (Oli, Clem, Inno)Fair to say for most part even Serral didn't carry his race. He always had a peer (Rogoue, Dark, Reynor) and Serral was by far the favorite to win every tournament he entered from all races
How so? Clem and Oli didn't a big title in the time span you specified. Inno won WESG one time just as Maru. But Maru also won GSL 4x which Inno didn't do. TY won GSL twice but no other tournament.
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On September 17 2025 18:34 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 16:19 Harris1st wrote:On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years I can agree on from 2018 onwards until the rise of Clement (somewhere in 2023 I guess), from all the Terrans, Maru had the highest chance of winning a tournament he entered. So yes Maru can be considered the best Terran over a span of 5+ years. Did he carry? I don't think so. Most of the big titles were won by other Terrans (Oli, Clem, Inno)Fair to say for most part even Serral didn't carry his race. He always had a peer (Rogoue, Dark, Reynor) and Serral was by far the favorite to win every tournament he entered from all races How so? Clem and Oli didn't a big title in the time span you specified. Inno won WESG one time just as Maru. But Maru also won GSL 4x which Inno didn't do. TY won GSL twice but no other tournament.
With which part do you disagree?
Was he the best Terran? Probably, I'd personally say yes.
Did he carry?. No, I don't think so
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On September 17 2025 11:02 JJH777 wrote:
From 2018 to the end of 2022 I count 65 premier events excluding region locked events. I count 16 Terran wins and out of those I see 11 for Maru, 2 for Inno, 2 for TY, 1 for Cure. Looking at finalists I count 30 total Terran final appearances with Maru being 17 of them. If that doesn't count as carrying a race then I'm not sure what does. Certainly nothing Serral has ever done would count as carrying Zerg then.
No, that's not "carrying the race". And no one really said Serral did it either?
Carrying the race, atleast how I would understand it, would mean something like this: Maru wins 5-10 tournaments in that timespan, while no other Terran could get two Ro8s in a row and there is rarely more than one Terran in it. None of that happen. I like your addition of "excluding Region-Lock", even though it doesn't really matter for this if the tournament is region-locked or not, but otherwise Clem and especially the A-Tier dominators SpeCial and Oliveira would have wrecked this statistic.
What you and others do here is essentially taking the well-known fact that Maru was the best Terran in the world in these five years* and give it another name to presented it as a second argument. It isn't. He won the most, doesn't mean he carried.
*Is it okay to say that? Or should I first re-check every single month of those five years to see in which Maru was the best, like it was done with Serral in this thread?
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On September 17 2025 16:11 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Inno won the GSL after terran got buffed and terran performance improved significantly (and I think TaeJa too but would have to fact check). I remember that was the running joke back then that Maru would always perform well when terran was weak and Inno would always perform well when terran was strong.
Inno definitely benefited or at least took advantage of good periods of terran balance better than basically anyone else. The parade push meta comes to mind specifically.
Although my all time terran balance barometer is Alive, anytime he would pop up again in tournaments you better believe terran was busted. Like the hellbat patch where they were 1 shotting workers.
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Northern Ireland27070 Posts
On September 17 2025 21:00 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 11:02 JJH777 wrote:
From 2018 to the end of 2022 I count 65 premier events excluding region locked events. I count 16 Terran wins and out of those I see 11 for Maru, 2 for Inno, 2 for TY, 1 for Cure. Looking at finalists I count 30 total Terran final appearances with Maru being 17 of them. If that doesn't count as carrying a race then I'm not sure what does. Certainly nothing Serral has ever done would count as carrying Zerg then. No, that's not "carrying the race". And no one really said Serral did it either? Carrying the race, atleast how I would understand it, would mean something like this: Maru wins 5-10 tournaments in that timespan, while no other Terran could get two Ro8s in a row and there is rarely more than one Terran in it. None of that happen. I like your addition of "excluding Region-Lock", even though it doesn't really matter for this if the tournament is region-locked or not, but otherwise Clem and especially the A-Tier dominators SpeCial and Oliveira would have wrecked this statistic. What you and others do here is essentially taking the well-known fact that Maru was the best Terran in the world in these five years* and give it another name to presented it as a second argument. It isn't. He won the most, doesn't mean he carried. *Is it okay to say that? Or should I first re-check every single month of those five years to see in which Maru was the best, like it was done with Serral in this thread?
Carrying is pre-military Trap, and post-military herO for a while. To me anyway.
You basically knew in many a tournament if someone beat them, no Toss would win that tournament.
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France12971 Posts
On September 17 2025 18:46 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 18:34 Charoisaur wrote:On September 17 2025 16:19 Harris1st wrote:On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years I can agree on from 2018 onwards until the rise of Clement (somewhere in 2023 I guess), from all the Terrans, Maru had the highest chance of winning a tournament he entered. So yes Maru can be considered the best Terran over a span of 5+ years. Did he carry? I don't think so. Most of the big titles were won by other Terrans (Oli, Clem, Inno)Fair to say for most part even Serral didn't carry his race. He always had a peer (Rogoue, Dark, Reynor) and Serral was by far the favorite to win every tournament he entered from all races How so? Clem and Oli didn't a big title in the time span you specified. Inno won WESG one time just as Maru. But Maru also won GSL 4x which Inno didn't do. TY won GSL twice but no other tournament. With which part do you disagree? Was he the best Terran? Probably, I'd personally say yes. Did he carry?. No, I don't think so
The race was uncarryable for most of this timespan, since even Maru could not do it. He was the only hope for most of this era though. Like if Maru was eliminated from the tournament, you knew there was barely any chance a terran would win it
Serral doesn't have to carry zerg because zerg was at best super OP, at worst equal to other races
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Like if Maru was eliminated from the tournament, you knew there was barely any chance a terran would win it
Except for all the tournaments won by Cure, Innovation, TY or Clem in that exact specific timeframe (which, by the way, should largely be irrelevant since it's in the "daed game" era anyway)?
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On September 17 2025 18:46 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 18:34 Charoisaur wrote:On September 17 2025 16:19 Harris1st wrote:On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years I can agree on from 2018 onwards until the rise of Clement (somewhere in 2023 I guess), from all the Terrans, Maru had the highest chance of winning a tournament he entered. So yes Maru can be considered the best Terran over a span of 5+ years. Did he carry? I don't think so. Most of the big titles were won by other Terrans (Oli, Clem, Inno)Fair to say for most part even Serral didn't carry his race. He always had a peer (Rogoue, Dark, Reynor) and Serral was by far the favorite to win every tournament he entered from all races How so? Clem and Oli didn't a big title in the time span you specified. Inno won WESG one time just as Maru. But Maru also won GSL 4x which Inno didn't do. TY won GSL twice but no other tournament. With which part do you disagree? Was he the best Terran? Probably, I'd personally say yes. Did he carry?. No, I don't think so
What's your definition of the word carry? According to chatgpt it means leading a team (in this context: race) to success through one's outstanding performances, compensating for weaker performances of others.
I'd say that's definitely the case for Maru 2018-2022, as well as for Serral in 2023 and onwards. Without them the race wouldn't have been succesful.
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On September 17 2025 23:46 Admiral Yang wrote:Show nested quote +Like if Maru was eliminated from the tournament, you knew there was barely any chance a terran would win it Except for all the tournaments won by Cure, Innovation, TY or Clem in that exact specific timeframe (which, by the way, should largely be irrelevant since it's in the "daed game" era anyway)?
I mean, the aforementioned scenario (another terran winning a tournament after Maru got eliminated) happened 4 times in those 5 years. So yeah 'barely' any chance fits quite well imo
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On September 17 2025 21:00 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 11:02 JJH777 wrote:
From 2018 to the end of 2022 I count 65 premier events excluding region locked events. I count 16 Terran wins and out of those I see 11 for Maru, 2 for Inno, 2 for TY, 1 for Cure. Looking at finalists I count 30 total Terran final appearances with Maru being 17 of them. If that doesn't count as carrying a race then I'm not sure what does. Certainly nothing Serral has ever done would count as carrying Zerg then. No, that's not "carrying the race". And no one really said Serral did it either? Carrying the race, atleast how I would understand it, would mean something like this: Maru wins 5-10 tournaments in that timespan, while no other Terran could get two Ro8s in a row and there is rarely more than one Terran in it. None of that happen. I like your addition of "excluding Region-Lock", even though it doesn't really matter for this if the tournament is region-locked or not, but otherwise Clem and especially the A-Tier dominators SpeCial and Oliveira would have wrecked this statistic. What you and others do here is essentially taking the well-known fact that Maru was the best Terran in the world in these five years* and give it another name to presented it as a second argument. It isn't. He won the most, doesn't mean he carried. *Is it okay to say that? Or should I first re-check every single month of those five years to see in which Maru was the best, like it was done with Serral in this thread?
Even including Maru Terran only won 25% of tournaments and took only 23% of finalist slots during that era. Maru was responsible for the vast majority of wins and majority of finals spots. It's very likely that if Maru didn't exist they would have won <15% of events during that era and had <20% finalists. That's carrying.
Region locked should still be excluded because it was basically can Clem beat Serral. If so he wins, if not he doesn't. And he had Serrals number for part of that era. Sometimes he didn't even have to beat Serral to win those regionals as well. He never won or even made the finals of any major international during that timeframe. Regardless it really wouldn't even change that much because Terran did so abysmal during the 2018/2019 WCS circuits that Clems success in 21/22 is unlikely to change the percentages all that much.
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On September 17 2025 08:28 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years Being the best Terran isn’t carrying. He played a fucking TvT final in 2018 GSL how is he carrying? TY subsequently won two of them, Cure got one and made finals. It’s a complete myth. Moon legitimately had a claim to being the fifth race in WC3, Maru’s knockoff nick isn’t really deserved.
Agree
No one except his fans calls him by that nickname. Just a way to try to boost Maru hype.
He was the best terran for a short period of time. But carrying the race? lol. herO carried his race more than Maru did his
Maru was basically a proxy boy during his peak in 2018
The so called weak terran era in 2018-2020. Do the Terran fans even do their homework anymore?
Terran had different players winning gsl Maru Ty and cure. a
Zerg had dark and rogue
Toss lol
So please tell us again how Maru was carrying his race when every other Terran were winning as well.
Terrans not winning any world championship is literally they need to git gud
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On September 17 2025 23:28 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 18:46 Harris1st wrote:On September 17 2025 18:34 Charoisaur wrote:On September 17 2025 16:19 Harris1st wrote:On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years I can agree on from 2018 onwards until the rise of Clement (somewhere in 2023 I guess), from all the Terrans, Maru had the highest chance of winning a tournament he entered. So yes Maru can be considered the best Terran over a span of 5+ years. Did he carry? I don't think so. Most of the big titles were won by other Terrans (Oli, Clem, Inno)Fair to say for most part even Serral didn't carry his race. He always had a peer (Rogoue, Dark, Reynor) and Serral was by far the favorite to win every tournament he entered from all races How so? Clem and Oli didn't a big title in the time span you specified. Inno won WESG one time just as Maru. But Maru also won GSL 4x which Inno didn't do. TY won GSL twice but no other tournament. With which part do you disagree? Was he the best Terran? Probably, I'd personally say yes. Did he carry?. No, I don't think so The race was uncarryable for most of this timespan, since even Maru could not do it.
Not commenting on the rest of the debate, but this is a sort of circular reasoning vaguely similar to the No True Scotsman fallacy. "He could not have carried Terran because if he had been able to carry Terran he would have carried Terran but he did not carry Terran."
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On September 17 2025 23:28 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 18:46 Harris1st wrote:On September 17 2025 18:34 Charoisaur wrote:On September 17 2025 16:19 Harris1st wrote:On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years I can agree on from 2018 onwards until the rise of Clement (somewhere in 2023 I guess), from all the Terrans, Maru had the highest chance of winning a tournament he entered. So yes Maru can be considered the best Terran over a span of 5+ years. Did he carry? I don't think so. Most of the big titles were won by other Terrans (Oli, Clem, Inno)Fair to say for most part even Serral didn't carry his race. He always had a peer (Rogoue, Dark, Reynor) and Serral was by far the favorite to win every tournament he entered from all races How so? Clem and Oli didn't a big title in the time span you specified. Inno won WESG one time just as Maru. But Maru also won GSL 4x which Inno didn't do. TY won GSL twice but no other tournament. With which part do you disagree? Was he the best Terran? Probably, I'd personally say yes. Did he carry?. No, I don't think so The race was uncarryable for most of this timespan, since even Maru could not do it. He was the only hope for most of this era though. Like if Maru was eliminated from the tournament, you knew there was barely any chance a terran would win it Serral doesn't have to carry zerg because zerg was at best super OP, at worst equal to other races
Ah yes, the return of the "Maru is a God and he only loses units because of balance"-argument.
Even including Maru Terran only won 25% of tournaments and took only 23% of finalist slots during that era. Maru was responsible for the vast majority of wins and majority of finals spots. It's very likely that if Maru didn't exist they would have won <15% of events during that era and had <20% finalists. That's carrying.
Region locked should still be excluded because it was basically can Clem beat Serral. If so he wins, if not he doesn't. And he had Serrals number for part of that era. Sometimes he didn't even have to beat Serral to win those regionals as well. He never won or even made the finals of any major international during that timeframe. Regardless it really wouldn't even change that much because Terran did so abysmal during the 2018/2019 WCS circuits that Clems success in 21/22 is unlikely to change the percentages all that much.
And yet, Terran was more than enough represented during tournaments. Tournament-wins don't say much in that regard tbh. As I said a while ago: In most of Marus GSL-wins Terran was well-represented in the Ro8.
Also, and I know you have a fundamentally different view on this: Terran winning 25% of tournaments means nothing. Even when the game is perfectly balanced there should not be a 33% split between the races, because that would effectively mean that personal skill does not matter at all, while the opposite should be true. If the game is perfectly balanced and Maru is the almighty-god-of-perfect-play he should win all tournaments.
Weirdly, that is kind of what one other dude did, casually almost doubling the amount of Premier-wins compared to the 2nd guy...
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France12971 Posts
On September 18 2025 01:15 Antithesis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 23:28 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 18:46 Harris1st wrote:On September 17 2025 18:34 Charoisaur wrote:On September 17 2025 16:19 Harris1st wrote:On September 17 2025 08:20 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 07:47 Poopi wrote:On September 17 2025 07:22 Balnazza wrote:On September 17 2025 06:54 Moonerz wrote:2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code SIdk why people lie about easily provable things. This is 2014 season 2 off the top of my head because I remember this dog map pool and getting blink all ind every game. Maru is the only terran in the r08 and one of four terrans in code s period. Edit: also looked up 2014 season 1. Only 1 terran in the ro8 (guess who) and 3 terrans in code s. But yeah Maru wasn't carrying his race and if he did it was only for a month lmao As I said earlier: In almost all of his GSL-wins there Terran was atleast normally represented in the Ro8, I think two-times Terran was even in the majority. But yes, Maru carried the race for like six months...in one region btw. Terran wasn't doing great internationally, but it was okay. At the backend of that stretch TaeJa even won two tournaments back-to-back (HSC and DreamHack). And in that very year one Terran even won GSL S3...surprise, not the "Terran Hope", but Innovation. The "Terran hope" couldn't even make it into the Ro8. Also in that same year Maru did have the most wins in Proleague...but if you look at the individual matchups, his only noteworthy matchup winrate-wise was TvT. Bbyong and Flash, the next two best Terrans, had similiar or even better winrates against Zerg and Protoss. So the "Terran Hope" was mostly good for...killing Terrans. Pretty sure there is a story-wise joke in there... The sarcastic commentary aside: Maru did good in 2014. Great even. But to pretend he carried the race for the entirety of the super-duper-hardcore-elite-supreme-era of SC2 is just nonsense. Maru was carrying terran for like five years straight when it was doing, overall, poorly Like he was the sole favorite for any world championship win What 5 years? When did that happen? When is this mythical period where Maru was carrying Terran for 5 years straight? Was it when Inno won more than him? Or when we had multiple Terran GSL champions who weren’t Maru, or when a Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ, or another Terran who wasn’t Maru won a World Champ? When is this mythical period? Maru carrying terran alone in both 2018 and 2019, best hope as well in IEM 2020, and until like 2022-2023. So maybe actually 6 years I can agree on from 2018 onwards until the rise of Clement (somewhere in 2023 I guess), from all the Terrans, Maru had the highest chance of winning a tournament he entered. So yes Maru can be considered the best Terran over a span of 5+ years. Did he carry? I don't think so. Most of the big titles were won by other Terrans (Oli, Clem, Inno)Fair to say for most part even Serral didn't carry his race. He always had a peer (Rogoue, Dark, Reynor) and Serral was by far the favorite to win every tournament he entered from all races How so? Clem and Oli didn't a big title in the time span you specified. Inno won WESG one time just as Maru. But Maru also won GSL 4x which Inno didn't do. TY won GSL twice but no other tournament. With which part do you disagree? Was he the best Terran? Probably, I'd personally say yes. Did he carry?. No, I don't think so The race was uncarryable for most of this timespan, since even Maru could not do it. Not commenting on the rest of the debate, but this is a sort of circular reasoning vaguely similar to the No True Scotsman fallacy. "He could not have carried Terran because if he had been able to carry Terran he would have carried Terran but he did not carry Terran."
Nobody did it, not even Maru who was by far the best terran
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EPT
