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On July 31 2008 08:27 Caller wrote:
Sure, banshees do more damage to ground, but why are you wasting banshees to kill zealots anyways when they could be raping probes? or buildings? or... w/e?
Maybe there are cannons near the probes? And why would you attack buildings if you can attack units, units are always worth more per hp than buildings...
On July 31 2008 08:27 Caller wrote:
no, i'm saying that just because a unit can't attack air doesn't mean that air units are a good counter for it. Please read the actual thing.
But as of now banshees are a good counter vs them. Cloak + high damage + flying + fast makes them perfect for it. And yes, if the wraith had the battlecruiser atg laser they would be good vs zealots, and thats what the banshee is, a wraith with ata but atg rivaling the old bc.
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Here is my idea:
The game starts with mbs/automine/autosplit/all this crap, ok, but since your first match at b.net your apm reaches 150-200(or more ^^) , it automatically changes to a mode where there is not any nooobie feature, and then forever in your b.net acc you will not have mbs or else, whatever, its good ... at least to me,haha so those freaking noobies will have to play forever as noobies if they want mbs back ^^
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On August 02 2008 02:40 Ki_Do wrote:
Here is my idea:
The game starts with mbs/automine/autosplit/all this crap, ok, but since your first match at b.net your apm reaches 150-200(or more ^^) , it automatically changes to a mode where there is not any nooobie feature, and then forever in your b.net acc you will not have mbs or else, whatever, its good ... at least to me,haha so those freaking noobies will have to play forever as noobies if they want mbs back ^^
shut up, seriously
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give me a better idea to solve the macro problem...
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On July 31 2008 17:45 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2008 08:27 Caller wrote:
Sure, banshees do more damage to ground, but why are you wasting banshees to kill zealots anyways when they could be raping probes? or buildings? or... w/e? Maybe there are cannons near the probes? And why would you attack buildings if you can attack units, units are always worth more per hp than buildings... Show nested quote +On July 31 2008 08:27 Caller wrote:
no, i'm saying that just because a unit can't attack air doesn't mean that air units are a good counter for it. Please read the actual thing. But as of now banshees are a good counter vs them. Cloak + high damage + flying + fast makes them perfect for it. And yes, if the wraith had the battlecruiser atg laser they would be good vs zealots, and thats what the banshee is, a wraith with ata but atg rivaling the old bc.
So clearly in order to win a Terran player has to get banshees if the enemy builds zealots.
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[B]On August 02 2008 03:25 Ki_Do wrote:
give me a better idea to solve the macro problem...
Remove MBS?
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i just realize my paranoid is becoming flood to the forums sorry all~
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Idea: How to fix the Thor and how to boost the terran sieging capabilities without overlapping with warp in and the nydus worm.
Just a thought. This is how it currently works.
Terran : Good transport
Protoss: Average transport + average "teleporting"
Zerg: Good Teleporting
It's pretty much "even" but endgame the terrans will have a harder time invading a well protected base if all they have are dropships. But thats good because it makes the races more different. Terrans = High defense, low attack (give or take).
So how about this?
The Thor: Make it a medium range (Goliath missiles without the upgrade) tanking unit specialized at busting buildings (extra damage).
Build by SCVs (because thats so cool!)
Give it a "nano-repair" passive ability that constantly repairs it (unfortunatly, just like the roach) and make it so that when they die, the wreckage stays indefinitly on the ground until repaired by an SCV.
It would be alot like the Stone Giants from WC3:TFT and the role doesnt quite overlap with the siege tank. (Glaive Thrower VS Stone Giant) Stone giants are used to take punishement (hardened skin) and to destroy static defenses (grab tree).
And think about it lorewise, the Thor is pretty much built for the same purpose. It's huge, very strong, but it's also very slow, so bad at tracking anything that moves. It would be good for A-A as a mobile missile battery but it just seems like a waste of such a cool unit model. An anyone who played the current build said they arent worth it.
Also: This solves the problem of terran mobility. They can't teleport to the backside of the enemy's base with a warp-in lookalike so they just blast their way through!
Terran army sample: M&M, Vikings, Siege tanks and 2 Thors spearheading the whole thing.
What do you think?
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[QUOTE]On August 08 2008 22:59 Krowser wrote:
So how about this?
The Thor: Make it a medium range (Goliath missiles without the upgrade) tanking unit specialized at busting buildings (extra damage).
Build by SCVs (because thats so cool!)
Give it a "nano-repair" passive ability that constantly repairs it (unfortunatly, just like the roach) and make it so that when they die, the wreckage stays indefinitly on the ground until repaired by an SCV.
[QUOTE]On August 08 2008 22:59 Krowser wrote:
It would be alot like the Stone Giants from WC3:TFT and the role doesnt quite overlap with the siege tank. (Glaive Thrower VS Stone Giant) Stone giants are used to take punishement (hardened skin) and to destroy static defenses (grab tree).
And think about it lorewise, the Thor is pretty much built for the same purpose. It's huge, very strong, but it's also very slow, so bad at tracking anything that moves. It would be good for A-A as a mobile missile battery but it just seems like a waste of such a cool unit model. An anyone who played the current build said they arent worth it.
Also: This solves the problem of terran mobility. They can't teleport to the backside of the enemy's base with a warp-in lookalike so they just blast their way through!
Terran army sample: M&M, Vikings, Siege tanks and 2 Thors spearheading the whole thing.
What do you think?[/QUOTE]
It sounds pretty much like an older version of the Thor alredy updated because it did not fit the game well. Also i belive it alredy works like a movile AA wall that can destroy buildings and static defenses. So are you porposing the thing to stay the same?
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On August 08 2008 22:59 Krowser wrote:So how about this? The Thor: Make it a medium range (Goliath missiles without the upgrade) tanking unit specialized at busting buildings (extra damage). Build by SCVs (because thats so cool!) Give it a "nano-repair" passive ability that constantly repairs it (unfortunatly, just like the roach) and make it so that when they die, the wreckage stays indefinitly on the ground until repaired by an SCV. Show nested quote +On August 08 2008 22:59 Krowser wrote:
It would be alot like the Stone Giants from WC3:TFT and the role doesnt quite overlap with the siege tank. (Glaive Thrower VS Stone Giant) Stone giants are used to take punishement (hardened skin) and to destroy static defenses (grab tree).
And think about it lorewise, the Thor is pretty much built for the same purpose. It's huge, very strong, but it's also very slow, so bad at tracking anything that moves. It would be good for A-A as a mobile missile battery but it just seems like a waste of such a cool unit model. An anyone who played the current build said they arent worth it.
Also: This solves the problem of terran mobility. They can't teleport to the backside of the enemy's base with a warp-in lookalike so they just blast their way through!
Terran army sample: M&M, Vikings, Siege tanks and 2 Thors spearheading the whole thing.
What do you think? It sounds pretty much like an older version of the Thor alredy updated because it did not fit the game well. Also i belive it alredy works like a movile AA wall that can destroy buildings and static defenses. So are you porposing the thing to stay the same?
The old Thor (lets call it Thor 1.0) was a beefy mech with artillery, as it was shown in that gameplay demo from blizzard. It was changed because it's role clearly overlapped the siege tank's. Which is heavy artillery.
The Thor 2.0 is weaker (I saw one get his ass kicked by a handful of stalkers in a few seconds) and is a mobile A-A platform. Flavor wise it's not really cool.
What I suggest is to make it medium range, slightly longer than marines, so no artillery. And I also suggest that they make it tougher so that it can actually STAY in the front line for more than 10 seconds. No Terran unit can do this right now. The Protoss have their Zealots and Immortals to take the punishement. The zerg have a ridiculous amount of zerglings and they also have Ultralisks. The strongest Terran unit after the Thor is the siege tank, which stays behind the front line.
To whoever played WC3, I'm proposing the exact same thing as Glaive Throwers (Long range siege) and Stone Giants (Short Range Siege/Tanker).
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On August 09 2008 03:23 Krowser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2008 22:59 Krowser wrote:So how about this? The Thor: Make it a medium range (Goliath missiles without the upgrade) tanking unit specialized at busting buildings (extra damage). Build by SCVs (because thats so cool!) Give it a "nano-repair" passive ability that constantly repairs it (unfortunatly, just like the roach) and make it so that when they die, the wreckage stays indefinitly on the ground until repaired by an SCV. On August 08 2008 22:59 Krowser wrote:
It would be alot like the Stone Giants from WC3:TFT and the role doesnt quite overlap with the siege tank. (Glaive Thrower VS Stone Giant) Stone giants are used to take punishement (hardened skin) and to destroy static defenses (grab tree).
And think about it lorewise, the Thor is pretty much built for the same purpose. It's huge, very strong, but it's also very slow, so bad at tracking anything that moves. It would be good for A-A as a mobile missile battery but it just seems like a waste of such a cool unit model. An anyone who played the current build said they arent worth it.
Also: This solves the problem of terran mobility. They can't teleport to the backside of the enemy's base with a warp-in lookalike so they just blast their way through!
Terran army sample: M&M, Vikings, Siege tanks and 2 Thors spearheading the whole thing.
What do you think? It sounds pretty much like an older version of the Thor alredy updated because it did not fit the game well. Also i belive it alredy works like a movile AA wall that can destroy buildings and static defenses. So are you porposing the thing to stay the same? The old Thor (lets call it Thor 1.0) was a beefy mech with artillery, as it was shown in that gameplay demo from blizzard. It was changed because it's role clearly overlapped the siege tank's. Which is heavy artillery. The Thor 2.0 is weaker (I saw one get his ass kicked by a handful of stalkers in a few seconds) and is a mobile A-A platform. Flavor wise it's not really cool. What I suggest is to make it medium range, slightly longer than marines, so no artillery. And I also suggest that they make it tougher so that it can actually STAY in the front line for more than 10 seconds. No Terran unit can do this right now. The Protoss have their Zealots and Immortals to take the punishement. The zerg have a ridiculous amount of zerglings and they also have Ultralisks. The strongest Terran unit after the Thor is the siege tank, which stays behind the front line. To whoever played WC3, I'm proposing the exact same thing as Glaive Throwers (Long range siege) and Stone Giants (Short Range Siege/Tanker).
As much as I hate the idea of SC2 being inspired by WC3 units, I'm actually liking this idea. A static-defense-breaker sounds like a great role for the Thor.
The only problem that it raises is that the (already low) Terran mobility is further decreased by having to keep your forces with such a slow unit for support. This is especially a problem against, say, Nydus Worm counterattacks.
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I want bridges you can travel both over and under. Or at least make it possible in map editor. If memory serves me correctly, it isn't possible in Warcraft 3...
Oh! And also some buildings, like evolution chambers and templar archives don't show when they are researching upgrades and whatnot whereas buildings such as forges and engineering bays do via blinking lights and stuff. I thought it'd be nice if all buildings gave off some sort of affirmation that they are doing something.
And make it possible for terrain to have effects. Like slow down unit's movement speed when they cross over that small patch of mud, or reduce their vision by half when they travel through tall grass.
Also, when you save an screen via F keys, I thought it'd be pretty cool if it showed you where you saved. Like there'll be three blank mini screens on your top left corner, when you save F1, it shows you a what's saved at F1 at the first screen.
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Remove unit selection completely, all units must be individually microd.
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On November 09 2007 18:40 Fen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2007 18:19 Spartan wrote:
Like the Zealot's charge ability, yeah its cool, but I'd rather see it user controllable to use the charge ability like a stimpack. By giving the players control over the charge, it opens up more micro opportunities and prevents baiting. But then if you do that, youve basically just given zealots stim packs.
but right now, with the charge ability on automatic, you can argue zealots have permanant stim already. i dont see any problem with having charge be activate-controlled. it could even be a toggle instead of insteant charge. another possibility yet would be to enable charge for 3 seconds when u press the button to activate it, so it's not instant click, but it's well within the time frame zealots would walk towards and engage.
so giving zealot stimpacks, if it even is an equivlant analogy, isn't a problem at all. it's more like a momentary burst of speed (maybe comparable to a nerfed semi-blink) that isn't comparable to an increased attack rate or a true movement speed like marines, lings, or hydras.
i love the idea, and how you spotted a potential problem for zealots. and since zealots have a cooldown for charge, the baiting could even be to "use up" the charge ability, like they plagued to use up medic energy for less effiency in fighting. but of course wasting a charge really isn't much compared to damaging it half way, or making the other player use up APM and mental concern on zealot pulls.
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On August 14 2008 09:14 OakHill wrote:
Remove unit selection completely, all units must be individually microd.
I'm starting to lose hope that people will ever stop recycling this joke.
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*repost*
Most spells in Starcraft 1 are combat spells like psi storm, which is not used unless within active combat. In starcraft two a new set of spells that effects the economy (morphalisk) or is used outside of combat in general (spider mines) is an new and exciting path to different sorts of macro.
The advantage of spell-based macro is in the following:
1. The time intensity of macro (much player need to pay attention to base) can be tweaked by the amount of max energy/cooldown of the castors. To more max energy, the less the player need to pay attention to the castors before they overfill.
2. The strength of macro can be controlled by the power of the spells themselves.
3. The effect of macro is far more interesting if the spell castor have a wide pool of spells.
4. Spell effects can be made easily visible to an observer, more so than gateway utilization percentage.
5. The mechanism already exists in the game and does not require completely new concepts and engine changes.
6. Macro requirement can be made into a choice so players can use strategy that avoid using non-combat castors if they dislike macro.
Now, Concrete examples
I. Zerg
The Zerg Queen unit, being the manager of the hive clustor, is the unit that has non-combat spells. However, currently the spells don't really scale much and need to be modified a bit.
1. Give Hatchery Energy which acts like "shield battery for Queens" where it recharges Queen energy. Give it a low max energy of something like 50 max energy.
2. Queen will have abilities like morphalisk, swarm clutch, creep tumor, Transfusion, swarm infestation, deep tunnel. (all will cost more energy, adjusted for the now greater mana pool)
3. Allow extra Queens to be build upon hive tech, one queen per lair/hive building.
What this means is that Queens will have to constantly travel between hatchery to hatchery (tending the clustor) to get the most out of the energy from the hatchery. Since the spells varies in use, the use of the hatchery/queen energy will differentiate different strategy. This fits both the lore of the queen and gives adds strategy in both energy management, base layout and queen movement routes.
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II. Terran
Terran have highly independent buildings so the Zerg model does not work. However, the Terran already have the Nomad, which is a non-combat castor and one simply need to make it accessible and vital to make macro an important part of the game.
1. Nomad no long require tech lab. However, detection is an upgrade at tech lab and will take energy. (like wraith cloak)
2. Auto-Turret will now take energy. Auto-Turret cost dropped.
3. Spider mine expire after 120 seconds. Spider mine activation range 6, hp 30 light.
4. Nomad max energy is 50. Gets upgraded to 150 after a long upgrade. (210 seconds)
What this means is that nomad will have to be constantly casting new defenses (every 50 seconds or less) to be fully efficient, as it can no longer accmulate a ton of energy. Now by making the nomad defenses strong, it would make the nomad an vital part of the slow push and base defense which fits the terran style while giving it an unique niche. The limitation on detection makes energy management more important and prevents swarms of Nomad nullifying cloaking.
Of course, Nomad is just one unit and within the terran arsonal there are other units that'd fit the role. In this case we call for the reaper which was considered lackluster previously.
1. Upgrade at armory of command detonated charges for the reaper. It will have linked cooldown with existing D-8 charges. It is cloaked and burrowed, has 10hp, does 20+20 damage upon command to detonate. It will take 15 seconds to arm. It does not track and will only hit units directly above it in a medium splash radius, and it has 1 sight range.
This means the reaper will have the additional role of maintaining map control and setting traps left and right like the old vulture. This is a spell that would likely be constantly used (it is free after all) and act as an aggressive APM sink. Bad players that lacks the APM will waste some mines while the cooldown finish.
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III.Protoss
Protoss lacks non-combat castors as it stands how, and its focused and well defined army means there is no obvious use to put the abilities onto. However the protoss psi matrix does offer lore justification for all sorts of abilities within a protoss base. Here is my tenative suggestion:
1. Nexus gains energy, capped at 40.
It gains the following spells:
"WarpTime": Accelerate the time of the single target, which includes everything from movement, attack, energy regen rates or build times (for buildings) by 30% by 60 seconds for 40 energy
"Channel": Can be used to transfer energy to other Nexus or mothership. Unlimited range.
"Cloaking field": Target a pylon within range. The pylon will than project a cloaking field for 1 energy per second after a initial cost of 20 energy.
2. Pylon gains ability "Drain" which converts its own shield to the energy of the Nexus (closest Nexus while under pylon field range) at the rate of 50 shield to 1 energy. It drains at the rate of 25 shield per second.
The abilities are researched at Templar Archives (WarpTime), Dark Obliesk (Cloaking Field).
Since warptime is so powerful, managing the energy is critical and good usage allows the protoss player to "hurry" buildings and bluff "hero units" and will constantly force the protoss player to get back to base to use this spell on whatever the strategic gap of the time.
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1. ability to choose colors. i hate being purple. and teel, which is the opposite of leet.
2. show ping (like in counterstrike)
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Vatican City State491 Posts
my idea would be a lack of replays for the first 6 months. this way people would not copy the strats THAT much and creative play would be anticipated. of course POVs and VODs would be made, but still they would not be that spread
look at starcraft "2fact" is now called cheese...
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b.net features:
1) FRIEND FOLLOW!
2) await game. (instead of spamming join to see when new slots will open into a game, you "target" a game and it will join if a slot is available) it will help the players by joining as fast as possible. whats so great about that? you try to get friends into a game, but as soon as you boot a guy, another random guy joins. or you really want to download a ums map and end up missing out. or you keep spamming join, and hten get the blank screen for 10 seconds. it will also help b.net because it will reduce load on the servers from people spamming in this fashion. and if there are lots of people awaiting the same game, then a waitlist would be created. and if the game starts or host leaves before you can join, then it would notify the player that the game is gone or started. this can be done with a light, instead of a notification message. just need a way to notify the status in live time.
3) team melee "tweaked" mode. Theres a ums map called macro micro, which lets one player control the buildings and scv's while the other player gets control of the units. so it's like team melee, but not every player can control everything. (probably a good idea to allow scv's and shuttles to be controllabled by both players). also, it will probably end up being a 2v2 mode, since it is divided by units and buildings... but then u can always have multiple people in each roles i guess. if anyone has tried it, it's quite fun, and has its own flavor, disctinct from team melee. you feel more like a team, and there is less frustration, and bickering. a flavor i think is fun enough to merit it's own new game mode. capture hte flag, greed and a lot of other modes you see like 5 games on the game list. probably won't end up being competetive, but it's fun. and with more people being into competetive and intense side of starcraft, i think this mode has potential to be quite popular.
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EPT
