• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:33
CEST 16:33
KST 23:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202550RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams5Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 1v1 Fastest Support! ASL20 Preliminary Maps
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 962 users

[T] New Ideas: Units, UI, Gameplay - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 27 Next All
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
July 18 2008 14:59 GMT
#381
On July 18 2008 20:21 Klockan3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2008 13:35 Caller wrote:
Terrans have a need for units that can directly counter melee attacks. It used to be the firebat, but without the firebat and the addition of the marauder, and the loss of mines, an anti-melee unit (besides the jackal, which is questionable) is needed.

Marauders are a direct counter to melee attack, since the weakness of melee is that they can't attack if they are not in range and marauders keeps them at range.


marauders are expensive, and are you telling me that it is now required that terrans build marauders for all matchups to deal with melee units?

Besides, 100/25 maruader = 4 zerglings. It can only shoot one zergling at a time. Hmmmmmmmm....

Now what about charging zealots? hmmm.......
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-18 15:12:55
July 18 2008 15:12 GMT
#382
On July 18 2008 23:59 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2008 20:21 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 18 2008 13:35 Caller wrote:
Terrans have a need for units that can directly counter melee attacks. It used to be the firebat, but without the firebat and the addition of the marauder, and the loss of mines, an anti-melee unit (besides the jackal, which is questionable) is needed.

Marauders are a direct counter to melee attack, since the weakness of melee is that they can't attack if they are not in range and marauders keeps them at range.


marauders are expensive, and are you telling me that it is now required that terrans build marauders for all matchups to deal with melee units?

Besides, 100/25 maruader = 4 zerglings. It can only shoot one zergling at a time. Hmmmmmmmm....

Now what about charging zealots? hmmm.......

The slow is aoe and they cost 150/50. Atleast in the wwi build´, and this makes them perfect to counter melee units. Charging zealots gets slowed to normal zealot speed btw.
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
July 18 2008 15:34 GMT
#383
On July 19 2008 00:12 Klockan3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2008 23:59 Caller wrote:
On July 18 2008 20:21 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 18 2008 13:35 Caller wrote:
Terrans have a need for units that can directly counter melee attacks. It used to be the firebat, but without the firebat and the addition of the marauder, and the loss of mines, an anti-melee unit (besides the jackal, which is questionable) is needed.

Marauders are a direct counter to melee attack, since the weakness of melee is that they can't attack if they are not in range and marauders keeps them at range.


marauders are expensive, and are you telling me that it is now required that terrans build marauders for all matchups to deal with melee units?

Besides, 100/25 maruader = 4 zerglings. It can only shoot one zergling at a time. Hmmmmmmmm....

Now what about charging zealots? hmmm.......

The slow is aoe and they cost 150/50. Atleast in the wwi build´, and this makes them perfect to counter melee units. Charging zealots gets slowed to normal zealot speed btw.


You still haven't addressed my concern that we will essentially be required to build marauders for every single matchup. That's really, really boring. If it was a choice, like vultures or firebats or even tanks (SK terran?) then it would be ok. But why do we have to build marauders with any unit in order to do anything against melee units, it seems?

and in any case did you actually look at the idea, it seems far more terranesque than a marine with bash.
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-18 16:01:30
July 18 2008 16:00 GMT
#384
On July 19 2008 00:34 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2008 00:12 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 18 2008 23:59 Caller wrote:
On July 18 2008 20:21 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 18 2008 13:35 Caller wrote:
Terrans have a need for units that can directly counter melee attacks. It used to be the firebat, but without the firebat and the addition of the marauder, and the loss of mines, an anti-melee unit (besides the jackal, which is questionable) is needed.

Marauders are a direct counter to melee attack, since the weakness of melee is that they can't attack if they are not in range and marauders keeps them at range.


marauders are expensive, and are you telling me that it is now required that terrans build marauders for all matchups to deal with melee units?

Besides, 100/25 maruader = 4 zerglings. It can only shoot one zergling at a time. Hmmmmmmmm....

Now what about charging zealots? hmmm.......

The slow is aoe and they cost 150/50. Atleast in the wwi build´, and this makes them perfect to counter melee units. Charging zealots gets slowed to normal zealot speed btw.


You still haven't addressed my concern that we will essentially be required to build marauders for every single matchup. That's really, really boring. If it was a choice, like vultures or firebats or even tanks (SK terran?) then it would be ok. But why do we have to build marauders with any unit in order to do anything against melee units, it seems?

and in any case did you actually look at the idea, it seems far more terranesque than a marine with bash.

Um, you can counter melee units with air units, with a large enough concentration of marines, with thors since thors now already are walking walls, with siegetanks to blast them before they get close, snipe them with ghosts, blow them up with mines, scorch them with jackals.., with anything really. Why do you need another moving wall? Thors are already perfect walking walls with a lot more character than your version.

Terran have no problems with melee units in sc1, and they hardly ever uses firebats already since marine packs does everything firebats do but also hits air and do good damage to other stuff than small melee units.
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
July 18 2008 16:48 GMT
#385
On July 19 2008 01:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2008 00:34 Caller wrote:
On July 19 2008 00:12 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 18 2008 23:59 Caller wrote:
On July 18 2008 20:21 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 18 2008 13:35 Caller wrote:
Terrans have a need for units that can directly counter melee attacks. It used to be the firebat, but without the firebat and the addition of the marauder, and the loss of mines, an anti-melee unit (besides the jackal, which is questionable) is needed.

Marauders are a direct counter to melee attack, since the weakness of melee is that they can't attack if they are not in range and marauders keeps them at range.


marauders are expensive, and are you telling me that it is now required that terrans build marauders for all matchups to deal with melee units?

Besides, 100/25 maruader = 4 zerglings. It can only shoot one zergling at a time. Hmmmmmmmm....

Now what about charging zealots? hmmm.......

The slow is aoe and they cost 150/50. Atleast in the wwi build´, and this makes them perfect to counter melee units. Charging zealots gets slowed to normal zealot speed btw.


You still haven't addressed my concern that we will essentially be required to build marauders for every single matchup. That's really, really boring. If it was a choice, like vultures or firebats or even tanks (SK terran?) then it would be ok. But why do we have to build marauders with any unit in order to do anything against melee units, it seems?

and in any case did you actually look at the idea, it seems far more terranesque than a marine with bash.

Um, you can counter melee units with air units, with a large enough concentration of marines, with thors since thors now already are walking walls, with siegetanks to blast them before they get close, snipe them with ghosts, blow them up with mines, scorch them with jackals.., with anything really. Why do you need another moving wall? Thors are already perfect walking walls with a lot more character than your version.

Terran have no problems with melee units in sc1, and they hardly ever uses firebats already since marine packs does everything firebats do but also hits air and do good damage to other stuff than small melee units.


What counters Zerglings... Firebats, not stimmed marines.
What counters Zealots... Vultures
What counters Ultralisks... Science Vessels
What counters Dark Templar... Vultures.

That's funny, why are all of the left units and none of the right units in the game?

The problem with the Thor is that it's not meant to be a walking wall but an artillery platform. It's redundant and nearly everybody agrees that the current build is lackluster. And sure you can have all those units, but then you could also say that tanks can always defeat zerglings b/c tanks can splash and kill many lings.
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-18 18:02:43
July 18 2008 18:00 GMT
#386
On July 19 2008 01:48 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2008 01:00 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 19 2008 00:34 Caller wrote:
On July 19 2008 00:12 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 18 2008 23:59 Caller wrote:
On July 18 2008 20:21 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 18 2008 13:35 Caller wrote:
Terrans have a need for units that can directly counter melee attacks. It used to be the firebat, but without the firebat and the addition of the marauder, and the loss of mines, an anti-melee unit (besides the jackal, which is questionable) is needed.

Marauders are a direct counter to melee attack, since the weakness of melee is that they can't attack if they are not in range and marauders keeps them at range.


marauders are expensive, and are you telling me that it is now required that terrans build marauders for all matchups to deal with melee units?

Besides, 100/25 maruader = 4 zerglings. It can only shoot one zergling at a time. Hmmmmmmmm....

Now what about charging zealots? hmmm.......

The slow is aoe and they cost 150/50. Atleast in the wwi build´, and this makes them perfect to counter melee units. Charging zealots gets slowed to normal zealot speed btw.


You still haven't addressed my concern that we will essentially be required to build marauders for every single matchup. That's really, really boring. If it was a choice, like vultures or firebats or even tanks (SK terran?) then it would be ok. But why do we have to build marauders with any unit in order to do anything against melee units, it seems?

and in any case did you actually look at the idea, it seems far more terranesque than a marine with bash.

Um, you can counter melee units with air units, with a large enough concentration of marines, with thors since thors now already are walking walls, with siegetanks to blast them before they get close, snipe them with ghosts, blow them up with mines, scorch them with jackals.., with anything really. Why do you need another moving wall? Thors are already perfect walking walls with a lot more character than your version.

Terran have no problems with melee units in sc1, and they hardly ever uses firebats already since marine packs does everything firebats do but also hits air and do good damage to other stuff than small melee units.


What counters Zerglings... Firebats, not stimmed marines.
What counters Zealots... Vultures
What counters Ultralisks... Science Vessels
What counters Dark Templar... Vultures.

That's funny, why are all of the left units and none of the right units in the game?

The problem with the Thor is that it's not meant to be a walking wall but an artillery platform. It's redundant and nearly everybody agrees that the current build is lackluster. And sure you can have all those units, but then you could also say that tanks can always defeat zerglings b/c tanks can splash and kill many lings.

No matter what you say the thor is a walking wall with its 300+300hh, 3 base armor and self repair, adding another walking wall wont make the concept any more interesting.

And actually stimmed marines do counter zerglings hard while firebats only counters zerglings eventhough they do it better but since they only counter lings they are useless compared to marines.

Also marines + marauders will counter all of those mentioned units, add in a ghost or two to counter zealots. And if you want the ultimate counter for all of the above mentioned melee units, build a damn banshee, they do extremely high damage for their cost as an ATG and thus will slaughter the melee units that can't fight back.

Trust me, a unit whose only role is to be a walking wall is the worst concept ever, and the current terran have no problems with melee units...
If you read what people have said marauders + marines pwn melee units.
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
July 18 2008 19:28 GMT
#387
On July 19 2008 03:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2008 01:48 Caller wrote:
On July 19 2008 01:00 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 19 2008 00:34 Caller wrote:
On July 19 2008 00:12 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 18 2008 23:59 Caller wrote:
On July 18 2008 20:21 Klockan3 wrote:
On July 18 2008 13:35 Caller wrote:
Terrans have a need for units that can directly counter melee attacks. It used to be the firebat, but without the firebat and the addition of the marauder, and the loss of mines, an anti-melee unit (besides the jackal, which is questionable) is needed.

Marauders are a direct counter to melee attack, since the weakness of melee is that they can't attack if they are not in range and marauders keeps them at range.


marauders are expensive, and are you telling me that it is now required that terrans build marauders for all matchups to deal with melee units?

Besides, 100/25 maruader = 4 zerglings. It can only shoot one zergling at a time. Hmmmmmmmm....

Now what about charging zealots? hmmm.......

The slow is aoe and they cost 150/50. Atleast in the wwi build´, and this makes them perfect to counter melee units. Charging zealots gets slowed to normal zealot speed btw.


You still haven't addressed my concern that we will essentially be required to build marauders for every single matchup. That's really, really boring. If it was a choice, like vultures or firebats or even tanks (SK terran?) then it would be ok. But why do we have to build marauders with any unit in order to do anything against melee units, it seems?

and in any case did you actually look at the idea, it seems far more terranesque than a marine with bash.

Um, you can counter melee units with air units, with a large enough concentration of marines, with thors since thors now already are walking walls, with siegetanks to blast them before they get close, snipe them with ghosts, blow them up with mines, scorch them with jackals.., with anything really. Why do you need another moving wall? Thors are already perfect walking walls with a lot more character than your version.

Terran have no problems with melee units in sc1, and they hardly ever uses firebats already since marine packs does everything firebats do but also hits air and do good damage to other stuff than small melee units.


What counters Zerglings... Firebats, not stimmed marines.
What counters Zealots... Vultures
What counters Ultralisks... Science Vessels
What counters Dark Templar... Vultures.

That's funny, why are all of the left units and none of the right units in the game?

The problem with the Thor is that it's not meant to be a walking wall but an artillery platform. It's redundant and nearly everybody agrees that the current build is lackluster. And sure you can have all those units, but then you could also say that tanks can always defeat zerglings b/c tanks can splash and kill many lings.

No matter what you say the thor is a walking wall with its 300+300hh, 3 base armor and self repair, adding another walking wall wont make the concept any more interesting.

And actually stimmed marines do counter zerglings hard while firebats only counters zerglings eventhough they do it better but since they only counter lings they are useless compared to marines.

Also marines + marauders will counter all of those mentioned units, add in a ghost or two to counter zealots. And if you want the ultimate counter for all of the above mentioned melee units, build a damn banshee, they do extremely high damage for their cost as an ATG and thus will slaughter the melee units that can't fight back.

Trust me, a unit whose only role is to be a walking wall is the worst concept ever, and the current terran have no problems with melee units...
If you read what people have said marauders + marines pwn melee units.


Thors are too unwieldy to use as walls because they are too slow and expensive. Walls are supposed to be cheap and expendable, not more expensive than the units they are protecting. Not to mention that Thors are at the top of the tech chain, and well... that doesn't make much sense for a wall.

The Cossack is not quite just a walking wall. It's a cavalry unit that can deploy into a wall, like the opposite of a siege tank. If you read the unit specifications there would be two things that stick out:

A) It is a fast "walker" unit that has a relatively fast but low damage attack. As such, it can be used to harass enemy units like for instance a group of zerglings that is moving about trying to flank or immortals that are being warped in in a small protoss encamptment. They somewhat function as mobile turrets, giving you a counter against light air that isn't infantry based as well. Worker harass will be far more difficult as only two can fit in a dropship at a time, the damage is too low to wipe out probes quickly, and they are expensive for worker harass.

B)Another use, though, is in conjunction with jackals in order to flank an enemy force, or to deflect a flank. A group of dug-in Cossacks can create small chokepoints that the Jackals can abuse with their linear splash while the Cossacks absorb Hydralisk/Stalker fire. But if a Terran ball is being attacked on two sides, whereas Thors will have a difficult time trudging into proper positions, Cossacks, with their quick speed, can quickly shift positions and save at least part of the ball from being ripped to shreds.

Addressing your points:

Again, you say to fight those units we need Marine Marauder. Well, I don't want to have to build Marine Marauder in every single game, and have to tech two different ways (infantry and mech) as a result, especially with the new gas system..

And the banshee is, again, much later tech than zealots+ zerglings, and its expensive, and its next to useless against hydras/stalkers which are assuredly going to be in most armies. That's like saying build Wraiths, Ultralisks can't kill them.
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-24 18:29:20
July 24 2008 18:28 GMT
#388
Idea to make the game macro harder to master without using artificial blocks. Focusing o natural gameplay enhancement like Mutate Larvae and Reactor:

- Protoss:
Probes can build a super pylon in addition to normal pylons. These super pylons are temporary. Provides the same aura normal pylons does. Plus their aura increases the production speed of production buildings (or cooldown of warp gates) by 25%ish per super pylon. Up to 100% (x2 faster production or 1/2 build time).

- Terran:
Reactors increase production speed by 50% instead of 100%. But they cost 50% their old price and you can use up to 4 reactors per production building (total 200% speed increase, 3x faster or 1/3 build time).

- Zerg
Mutate Larvae can also be used on drones. Mutating it back to a larvae which can then be used to produce another unit. (basically sacrificing workers to produce combat units faster without needing to build more hatcheries)
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
jeb
Profile Joined July 2008
Sweden4 Posts
July 24 2008 22:12 GMT
#389
Ok, this has been a nagging me for a long time. I don't know what to do... it's such a simple fix... how can I make Blizzard listen? Oh, the frustration! *cries* Please, somebody with authority, make them listen... they MUST listen! *cries some more*

Move the health bars from the units' heads to the units' feet!

It looked great in Starcraft. I don't understand why they didn't do that in WC3, because it looks like shit (like in all RTS games with flying health bars). They're so simple to move, and have such a great visual impact. The guy or gal who knew that must've moved out from Blizzard when they began making WoW (where head health bars make more sense).
prOxi.swAMi
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Australia3091 Posts
July 25 2008 01:23 GMT
#390
On July 25 2008 07:12 jeb wrote:
Ok, this has been a nagging me for a long time. I don't know what to do... it's such a simple fix... how can I make Blizzard listen? Oh, the frustration! *cries* Please, somebody with authority, make them listen... they MUST listen! *cries some more*

Move the health bars from the units' heads to the units' feet!

It looked great in Starcraft. I don't understand why they didn't do that in WC3, because it looks like shit (like in all RTS games with flying health bars). They're so simple to move, and have such a great visual impact. The guy or gal who knew that must've moved out from Blizzard when they began making WoW (where head health bars make more sense).

I share your preference but I dont think it's a huge issue. What I'm more annoyed about is how the whole scheme of what is shown is war3 verbatim. Keep the health bar on your selected units visible without holding alt please.

Another thing, with the subgroups, please allow me to explicitly select a unit from the selected units display with a single click...
Oh no
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42649 Posts
July 27 2008 07:10 GMT
#391
I don't know if this has been suggested before because I normally avoid the sc2 forum and MBS topics in particular. However this thought just came to me and I thought it was worth suggesting.

Firstly, scrap tab mbs. It's just another forced handicap on the UI.
Replace it with a penalty on attempting to build units you can't afford. Basically just make the gateway busy for the build time of whatever it is you asked it to build but couldn't afford. If you have the money for 5 gates but only have 3 or so then you won't notice this at all, you'll go 1z and 3 zealots will appear but you'll still be macroing badly. Conversely if you make 8 gateways and go 1z it'll make the 5 zealots you can afford but all 8 gateways will be busy for the time taken to make the zealots.
It should encourage a player to interact more with the game, be aware of how macro concepts work and how to play efficiently. A player who can macro well in bw will never run into this problem, a bad player who likes being able to macro with just 2 keystrokes can macro with 2 keystrokes and to hell with production efficiency.

If it's been suggested before, sorry. If not, any thoughts or criticisms?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Spenguin
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia3316 Posts
July 27 2008 15:54 GMT
#392
On July 27 2008 16:10 Kwark wrote:
I don't know if this has been suggested before because I normally avoid the sc2 forum and MBS topics in particular. However this thought just came to me and I thought it was worth suggesting.

Firstly, scrap tab mbs. It's just another forced handicap on the UI.
Replace it with a penalty on attempting to build units you can't afford. Basically just make the gateway busy for the build time of whatever it is you asked it to build but couldn't afford. If you have the money for 5 gates but only have 3 or so then you won't notice this at all, you'll go 1z and 3 zealots will appear but you'll still be macroing badly. Conversely if you make 8 gateways and go 1z it'll make the 5 zealots you can afford but all 8 gateways will be busy for the time taken to make the zealots.
It should encourage a player to interact more with the game, be aware of how macro concepts work and how to play efficiently. A player who can macro well in bw will never run into this problem, a bad player who likes being able to macro with just 2 keystrokes can macro with 2 keystrokes and to hell with production efficiency.

If it's been suggested before, sorry. If not, any thoughts or criticisms?


So that's only for hot keyed gates or if you drag-box and select multiple gates? I thought the latest version played at Paris was where you had to go 1zzzzz?
< TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #46 > I came for the Brood War, I stayed for the people.
GeneralStan
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States4789 Posts
July 27 2008 16:25 GMT
#393
On July 27 2008 16:10 Kwark wrote:
I don't know if this has been suggested before because I normally avoid the sc2 forum and MBS topics in particular. However this thought just came to me and I thought it was worth suggesting.

Firstly, scrap tab mbs. It's just another forced handicap on the UI.
Replace it with a penalty on attempting to build units you can't afford. Basically just make the gateway busy for the build time of whatever it is you asked it to build but couldn't afford. If you have the money for 5 gates but only have 3 or so then you won't notice this at all, you'll go 1z and 3 zealots will appear but you'll still be macroing badly. Conversely if you make 8 gateways and go 1z it'll make the 5 zealots you can afford but all 8 gateways will be busy for the time taken to make the zealots.
It should encourage a player to interact more with the game, be aware of how macro concepts work and how to play efficiently. A player who can macro well in bw will never run into this problem, a bad player who likes being able to macro with just 2 keystrokes can macro with 2 keystrokes and to hell with production efficiency.

If it's been suggested before, sorry. If not, any thoughts or criticisms?


Criticism: Effecient macro will still allow a skillful player to have near perfect macro without returning to base, leading to the stagnation and overconcentration on micro, death of multi-tasking, etc etc
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Kad3Ch
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Lithuania26 Posts
July 29 2008 06:59 GMT
#394
OK, here's the idea.

What if we give tier 2 zerg queen ability to spawn 2 scourge which last X seconds.

-This will give zerg good counter against medivac, phase prism, overlord+worm drops and banshees, phoenix, collosus.
-Emphasize queens role as a defensive unit.
-Shouldn't affect mid-late game air battles.
-May give cheap and fast scouting for zerg.
-May complicate scouting/detection for protoss.
-ZvZ may become an overlord slaughter.
404.Nintu
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada1723 Posts
July 29 2008 12:22 GMT
#395
On July 29 2008 15:59 Kad3Ch wrote:
OK, here's the idea.

What if we give tier 2 zerg queen ability to spawn 2 scourge which last X seconds.

-This will give zerg good counter against medivac, phase prism, overlord+worm drops and banshees, phoenix, collosus.
-Emphasize queens role as a defensive unit.
-Shouldn't affect mid-late game air battles.
-May give cheap and fast scouting for zerg.
-May complicate scouting/detection for protoss.
-ZvZ may become an overlord slaughter.


This is actually pretty cool, and makes a lot of sense.
"So, then did the American yum-yum clown monkey also represent the FCC?"
dcttr66
Profile Joined October 2003
United States555 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-29 13:50:37
July 29 2008 13:47 GMT
#396
On July 25 2008 03:28 VIB wrote:
Idea to make the game macro harder to master without using artificial blocks. Focusing o natural gameplay enhancement like Mutate Larvae and Reactor:

- Protoss:
Probes can build a super pylon in addition to normal pylons. These super pylons are temporary. Provides the same aura normal pylons does. Plus their aura increases the production speed of production buildings (or cooldown of warp gates) by 25%ish per super pylon. Up to 100% (x2 faster production or 1/2 build time).

- Terran:
Reactors increase production speed by 50% instead of 100%. But they cost 50% their old price and you can use up to 4 reactors per production building (total 200% speed increase, 3x faster or 1/3 build time).

- Zerg
Mutate Larvae can also be used on drones. Mutating it back to a larvae which can then be used to produce another unit. (basically sacrificing workers to produce combat units faster without needing to build more hatcheries)

your zerg idea is bad but the others are even worse.

Previously Posted:
"And the banshee is, again, much later tech than zealots+ zerglings, and its expensive, and its next to useless against hydras/stalkers which are assuredly going to be in most armies. That's like saying build Wraiths, Ultralisks can't kill them."

I'm sure he meant something more like, build guardians, ultralisks can't kill them.
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
July 29 2008 18:16 GMT
#397
On July 29 2008 22:47 dcttr66 wrote:
Previously Posted:
"And the banshee is, again, much later tech than zealots+ zerglings, and its expensive, and its next to useless against hydras/stalkers which are assuredly going to be in most armies. That's like saying build Wraiths, Ultralisks can't kill them."

I'm sure he meant something more like, build guardians, ultralisks can't kill them.


no im saying how its like "banshees are air, zealots cant attack air, use banshees against zealots." is like wraiths vs. ultras.
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
dcttr66
Profile Joined October 2003
United States555 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-30 01:04:58
July 30 2008 00:58 GMT
#398
actually he said this "they do extremely high damage for their cost as an ATG"
and wraiths do not do this so like i said, it's more like guardians.

i mean, really, the ultralisks are stronger than the zealots and the wraiths are weaker than the banshees so why are you exaggerating like this?

it's like you're saying that killing a fruit fly is the same as killing a fish. neither of them can fight back.

it sounds like you want zealots to attack air.
Drakill Tannan
Profile Joined July 2008
Mexico13 Posts
July 30 2008 20:43 GMT
#399
After lurking for some time though teamliquid i decided to post my own idea
Right now the Nydus worm must be built on creep, making it almost exacltly like a nydus canal, it nerfs the wrom so the zerg can't just make 7 worms in terran/protoss without warning, but it doesn't fix the problem when attacking another zerg, and remains inbalanced anytime a zerg fights another zerg... right?

So, my sugestion is basicaly to restrict how fast nydus worms can be built in a certian time using either cooldown or energy from the nydus warren (or is it called nydus network? can't remember)

-You can only build 1 Nydus warren(/Network?), but once it is destroyed it may be rebuilt, but you'll lose all units within it. The nydus warren has 250 energy (maybe +50 with some reserch?) and each worm costs around 150 energy. (or just give it a cooldown, i like the energy idea best tho)

-Nydus worms can spawn anywere with vision, but their build time is incresed (6-7 secs?) also a Nydus worm can be moved, this will cost the Nydus warren some energy but the worm will be able to move anywere were there is vision.

-You can also build Nydus canals that will work much like thouse in SC1, but instead of having to build an exit they will conect to the nydus network.

Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
July 30 2008 23:27 GMT
#400
On July 30 2008 09:58 dcttr66 wrote:
actually he said this "they do extremely high damage for their cost as an ATG"
and wraiths do not do this so like i said, it's more like guardians.

i mean, really, the ultralisks are stronger than the zealots and the wraiths are weaker than the banshees so why are you exaggerating like this?

it's like you're saying that killing a fruit fly is the same as killing a fish. neither of them can fight back.

it sounds like you want zealots to attack air.


no, i'm saying that just because a unit can't attack air doesn't mean that air units are a good counter for it. Please read the actual thing.

Sure, banshees do more damage to ground, but why are you wasting banshees to kill zealots anyways when they could be raping probes? or buildings? or... w/e?
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 27 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025 - Day 3
Maru vs CureLIVE!
herO vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
EWC_Arena11777
ComeBackTV 2670
TaKeTV 603
JimRising 432
Hui .414
Rex279
3DClanTV 279
EnkiAlexander 190
Berry_CruncH186
mcanning152
CranKy Ducklings136
SpeCial94
Reynor93
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena11777
JimRising 432
Hui .414
Rex 279
mcanning 152
SpeCial 94
Reynor 93
UpATreeSC 83
ProTech57
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 3628
Sea 2752
Flash 2493
TY 1260
BeSt 985
EffOrt 924
Jaedong 763
Mini 634
ggaemo 428
ZerO 329
[ Show more ]
Stork 308
Soulkey 268
Soma 254
Hyuk 254
Zeus 218
Mind 169
Larva 166
Snow 157
Pusan 145
ToSsGirL 97
Hyun 93
Light 83
sorry 79
JulyZerg 62
Sharp 53
JYJ50
sas.Sziky 40
Movie 32
yabsab 22
zelot 20
Dewaltoss 19
soO 17
Sacsri 16
scan(afreeca) 12
Terrorterran 10
IntoTheRainbow 9
Dota 2
420jenkins388
syndereN331
XcaliburYe287
League of Legends
febbydoto13
Counter-Strike
fl0m3129
ScreaM582
sgares458
zeus95
markeloff92
edward14
Other Games
singsing2436
B2W.Neo1374
hiko891
Beastyqt705
crisheroes408
Happy242
QueenE64
ArmadaUGS62
KnowMe31
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4828
• WagamamaTV606
League of Legends
• Nemesis3707
• Jankos1237
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
20h 27m
OSC
23h 27m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 19h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 23h
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.