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4 Posts
Official post
AfreecaTV has announced that it will hold two seasons of GSL Code S in 2024.
- Season 1: February 29 - April 11 (weekly broadcasts at 09:30 GMT (+00:00) every Thursday)
- Season 2: June to July, specific dates TBD
The format of each individual season will be identical to GSL 2023.
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2024/2024format.png) The top four players from Season 1 will be seeded into Season 2.
However, there has been a significant reduction in base prize pool, going from ₩34,000,000 Korean Won per season to ₩20,000,000 Korean Won. To offset this, the max crowdfund/Patreon contribution per season will be increased from $30,000 to $40,000. The total prize money per season would remain roughly the same as 2023 if crowdfunding goals are reached.
AfreecaTV said it would consider plans for 2024 and 2025 after the conclusion of the Esports World Cup (previously Gamers8).
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Greece30 Posts
Sad story, but let's hope we the people, keep supporting everything SC2.
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Oof the downsizing is real
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Guess I have to renew my patreon subscription
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So I assume both will count into the World Cup (atleast if the World Cup is at the same time as Gamers8 was)? This really is a mess how uncertain everything is...
Probs to Afreeca that they are honest about the next years. Pretty sure at this point they need there to be another Circuit-Season, otherwise being a SC2 progamer in Korea isn't remotely feasable even for the topdogs
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United States33505 Posts
On January 31 2024 16:09 Balnazza wrote:
So I assume both will count into the World Cup (atleast if the World Cup is at the same time as Gamers8 was)? This really is a mess how uncertain everything is...
Probs to Afreeca that they are honest about the next years. Pretty sure at this point they need there to be another Circuit-Season, otherwise being a SC2 progamer in Korea isn't remotely feasable even for the topdogs
Yes, leaks suggest it will be a July start again (Riot telling teams to clear calendars). Assuming it's 8 weeks again, seems like SC2 is again laid out for August. I'm assuming all the relevant SC2 players already know the rough timing.
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If Rogue, Trap, Zest can play again after the military service, the downsizing is just small matter.
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AfreecaTV said it would consider plans for 2024 and 2025 after the conclusion of the Esports World Cup (previously Gamers8). Does this mean there could be one more GSL in the second half/at the end of the year?
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If we get 2 GSLs for half the year and after that we get more, not bad at all. That being said, no supertournaments and less prize money means the barrier of entry of new people is getting even more impossible than before.
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United States33505 Posts
On January 31 2024 16:52 Donek98 wrote:Show nested quote +AfreecaTV said it would consider plans for 2024 and 2025 after the conclusion of the Esports World Cup (previously Gamers8). Does this mean there could be one more GSL in the second half/at the end of the year?
Given how close to the edge IEM Katowice was when it was announced, I'm gonna say that no SC2 organizer is operating with any kind of mid or long-term certainty.
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Fighting for peanuts over there. You probably make more from ESL weeklies than GSL over the course of the year.
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On January 31 2024 16:52 Donek98 wrote:Show nested quote +AfreecaTV said it would consider plans for 2024 and 2025 after the conclusion of the Esports World Cup (previously Gamers8). Does this mean there could be one more GSL in the second half/at the end of the year?
I guess Gamers8 is still in the 2023/2024 season, it's kind of weird because the league ends directly in the middle of the year
so yea I guess it's possible we get another GSL at the end of 2024, along with 2 more GSL season in 2025 before Gamers8 so it's still 3 GSLs for each World Championship
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2 GSLs and 3 ASLs per year would be great
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On January 31 2024 22:09 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
2 GSLs and 3 ASLs per year would be great
Eh, id like more than 2 gsls. Especially with a continued shrinking prize pool. But I guess that's the state of SC2 these days.
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At this point I'm just glad that there is GSL.
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On January 31 2024 22:58 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2024 22:09 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
2 GSLs and 3 ASLs per year would be great Eh, id like more than 2 gsls. Especially with a continued shrinking prize pool. But I guess that's the state of SC2 these days.
Are there going to be 3 ASLs this year?
I was just thinking ASL and GSL both having two tournaments makes sense. Although I miss 3 GSLs + 1-2 Supertournament days 😢
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I'm not surprised that they're going to be leaning more heavily on crowdfunding. I'm just glad we get more top-level Koreran SC2.
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At this point GSL is just trying to match the plan from ESL for the EPT season. I am actually surprised they have 2 season instead of 1, because ESL only have one more season after IEM?
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Glad there is still GSL. Since the EPT regional events are online anyway, maybe they should consider opening them up to other regions?
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Canada8989 Posts
14 years and counting! We just passed BW's OSL run, who's the dead game in Korea now!?
(It's us, I know)
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Great news!
On February 01 2024 00:42 Nakajin wrote:
14 years and counting! We just passed BW's OSL run, who's the dead game in Korea now!?
(It's us, I know)
The game is not dead.
For a game built upon false financial pretenses... SC2 has done pretty well. RTS fans/players got a great deal.
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On February 01 2024 00:42 Nakajin wrote:
14 years and counting! We just passed BW's OSL run, who's the dead game in Korea now!?
(It's us, I know)
Not really a viable comparison, tbh.
But the more starcraft the better, anyways.
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On February 01 2024 00:42 Nakajin wrote:
14 years and counting! We just passed BW's OSL run, who's the dead game in Korea now!?
(It's us, I know)
Both of them, tbh.
I'll admit although I hadn't given it much thought, in retrospect I'd have expected no GSL this year, so good news I suppose, however downsized it may be.
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GSL donation link by the way: https://www.patreon.com/GSL
I am a bit confused about the distribution of donations though. Isn't the goal very comfortably met?
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On January 31 2024 16:25 swarminfestor wrote:
If Rogue, Trap, Zest can play again after the military service, the downsizing is just small matter.
Trap at least confirmed he wouldn’t be coming back post-military  Of course folks can always change their minds
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
Ah, downsizing is disappointing, have to put my money where my mouth is with Patreon I suppose!
One thing I don’t get is why don’t Afreeca at least gauge the Patreon appetite before announcing the format? At least they’re using it to bump the pools, but I can’t help but wonder if at a stretch Patrons could have maybe contributed enough if they put ‘we need x to run 3 seasons’
Aside from bumping prize money for Korea which is lowering to a trickle, the other number one thing I’d personally contribute to is an extra tournament and opportunity for Korean players. You don’t qualify for one Code S, and the smaller field it has now, that’s half the Korean season you’re locked out of.
Outside of a hype tournament and some more money for the top players, Gamers 8 really is having very little benefit to the wider SC2 scene is it? I know I’m like a broken record on this so may as well continue being so :p
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Why have a limit for Patreon? I will double my donation if you have no limit! I would support AfreecaTV to take 10% of Patreon donations to cover their production costs as well!
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Spain881 Posts
Good news! - despite the downsizing.
Time to renew my Patreon subscription.
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Damn it's gonna be so stressful trying to get into GSL now, missing 1 means you miss half the year (or in terms of days, it might mean if you qualify for 1 you're only competing 2 months out of 12...)
At least there's more online tournies and community tournies to help them fill in the gaps
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Still more prestigious than Katowice or WCS. One GSL Code S trumps 2 WCS/Katowice/Blizzcon.
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On February 01 2024 12:07 yezzir88 wrote:
Still more prestigious than Katowice or WCS. One GSL Code S trumps 2 WCS/Katowice/Blizzcon.
Scarlett, Spirit, Heromarine, trigger: Atleast three of them will make more money with one day of Katowice than the winner of the next GSL season (crowdfunding not included ofc). You *might* want to re-evaluate your copium buddy...
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On February 01 2024 01:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Great news! Show nested quote +On February 01 2024 00:42 Nakajin wrote:
14 years and counting! We just passed BW's OSL run, who's the dead game in Korea now!?
(It's us, I know) The game is not dead. For a game built upon false financial pretenses... SC2 has done pretty well. RTS fans/players got a great deal.
I do think people forget how well SC2 did as an esport. It's been around for almost 1.5 decades with substantial monetary rewards. It's a 1v1 game meaning all prize pools go to the one person instead of a team of 5+. Very few esports have the longevity and money that BW/SC2 have had. Melee has been around for as long as BW but has no money. It feels greedy to ask for more at this point.
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On February 01 2024 12:48 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2024 12:07 yezzir88 wrote:
Still more prestigious than Katowice or WCS. One GSL Code S trumps 2 WCS/Katowice/Blizzcon. Scarlett, Spirit, Heromarine, trigger: Atleast three of them will make more money with one day of Katowice than the winner of the next GSL season (crowdfunding not included ofc). You *might* want to re-evaluate your copium buddy...
I mean their initial comment was hyperbolic in the extreme, but equally money can buy many things but prestigious tournament status is not one of em, so I’d disagree with that element of your response.
For me a Starleague is borderline equivalent with a Katowice/Blizzcon, at least historically. On the one hand you have fewer shots at a WC (historically anyway) and you gotta bring your A game and peak at the right time, on the other you have the elite players of the game and their teammates/friends prepping to specifically snipe you and have to plan accordingly.
It’s really a crying shame that the Korean scene is being left to wither on the vine, and rather short-sighted.
I’m pretty vocal in (generally, some specifics I’m not a fan of) praising the efforts to give foreigners a better platform and structure to develop and challenge the Korean top dogs, but once that was sorted it feels there’s been an organisational fuck you to Korea.
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On February 01 2024 13:49 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2024 12:48 Balnazza wrote:On February 01 2024 12:07 yezzir88 wrote:
Still more prestigious than Katowice or WCS. One GSL Code S trumps 2 WCS/Katowice/Blizzcon. Scarlett, Spirit, Heromarine, trigger: Atleast three of them will make more money with one day of Katowice than the winner of the next GSL season (crowdfunding not included ofc). You *might* want to re-evaluate your copium buddy... I mean their initial comment was hyperbolic in the extreme, but equally money can buy many things but prestigious tournament status is not one of em, so I’d disagree with that element of your response. For me a Starleague is borderline equivalent with a Katowice/Blizzcon, at least historically. On the one hand you have fewer shots at a WC (historically anyway) and you gotta bring your A game and peak at the right time, on the other you have the elite players of the game and their teammates/friends prepping to specifically snipe you and have to plan accordingly. It’s really a crying shame that the Korean scene is being left to wither on the vine, and rather short-sighted. I’m pretty vocal in (generally, some specifics I’m not a fan of) praising the efforts to give foreigners a better platform and structure to develop and challenge the Korean top dogs, but once that was sorted it feels there’s been an organisational fuck you to Korea.
Prestige and money are not the same, that is right. But at some point the discrepancy becomes so large that you have to atleast adjust expectations.
I'm really not trying to diss GSL and I'm glad it is still around, but if anyone actually thinks winning this is "as prestigious as winning two WCS/Katowice"...that's just delusional, sorry. In reality, GSL is just the fourth regional, with the ironic discrepancy of being probably still the strongest region while at the same time giving out the least amount of money, though that is of course assuming that ESL won't downsize (or outright shutdown) after Gamers8 aswell.
I would personally say that in terms of prestige the ESL Masters trumps GSL. Katowice and the World Championships are miles ahead of it. Korea might still be the strongest region, but the ESL Masters clearly present a stronger field of participants.
Anyway, I'm honestly sorry for even falling for that bait, lets move on
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On February 01 2024 01:56 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2024 00:42 Nakajin wrote:
14 years and counting! We just passed BW's OSL run, who's the dead game in Korea now!?
(It's us, I know) Both of them, tbh. I'll admit although I hadn't given it much thought, in retrospect I'd have expected no GSL this year, so good news I suppose, however downsized it may be.
big true. artosis, and i love him, loves to say how SC is doing great in korea but its only continued to shrink. Anyone who's followed the pc bank rankings somewhat regularly knows it only gotten lower and lower of a percentage of players. It is somewhat stable, but definitely not growing, and in fact slowly shrinking. only about 2% of all players in a pc bang are playing starcraft. where as over 40% are playing league of legends. heck, even maple story is more popular in korea than starcraft. https://www.gametrics.com/rank/Rank02.aspx basically, starcraft has a big problem where its not getting any new players.
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France12906 Posts
On February 01 2024 16:16 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2024 01:56 Durnuu wrote:On February 01 2024 00:42 Nakajin wrote:
14 years and counting! We just passed BW's OSL run, who's the dead game in Korea now!?
(It's us, I know) Both of them, tbh. I'll admit although I hadn't given it much thought, in retrospect I'd have expected no GSL this year, so good news I suppose, however downsized it may be. big true. artosis, and i love him, loves to say how SC is doing great in korea but its only continued to shrink. Anyone who's followed the pc bank rankings somewhat regularly knows it only gotten lower and lower of a percentage of players. It is somewhat stable, but definitely not growing, and in fact slowly shrinking. only about 2% of all players in a pc bang are playing starcraft. where as over 40% are playing league of legends. heck, even maple story is more popular in korea than starcraft. https://www.gametrics.com/rank/Rank02.aspx basically, starcraft has a big problem where its not getting any new players.
It’s got to be expected though, StarCraft is one of the old games, where you build a game, maybe apply a patch or two, then leave it like that forever. The fact that some people still play it two decades later is a testimony to how great it is.
League of legends is one of the new games, which is meant to stay forever with new champions / skins / patchs each and every year, so it’s easier to retain players
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I'm in Korea until May so i'm excited I'll get another chance to visit before I leave.
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gsl isnt what it ones was.
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On February 01 2024 07:40 CMS_Flash wrote:
Why have a limit for Patreon? I will double my donation if you have no limit! I would support AfreecaTV to take 10% of Patreon donations to cover their production costs as well!
I reckon the patreon funds are already being tapped to fund production or to provide necessary upside to secure funding.
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On February 05 2024 08:15 Riner1212 wrote:
gsl isnt what it ones was.
The entire SC2 scene isn't what it once was, you mean?
If you look at the current 24 IEM Katowice 2024 players, their average age is 26.6 years (just did some quick number crunching - simplified to just their age rounded down, e.g., 26.8 y.o. = 26 y.o., as we conventionally do socially). With the youngest being Trigger, 21 years and 7 months old - 10 days younger than Reynor.
Back in the early days, say in 2013, most of them would be considered "Dinosaurs" lol.
But hey, we are still here, right? After playing and watching for 13+ years.
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On February 10 2024 12:12 johnnyh123 wrote:The entire SC2 scene isn't what it once was, you mean? If you look at the current 24 IEM Katowice 2024 players, their average age is 26.6 years (just did some quick number crunching - simplified to just their age rounded down, e.g., 26.8 y.o. = 26 y.o., as we conventionally do socially). With the youngest being Trigger, 21 years and 7 months old - 10 days younger than Reynor. Back in the early days, say in 2013, most of them would be considered "Dinosaurs" lol. But hey, we are still here, right? After playing and watching for 13+ years.
Yeah and the current ASL 17 lineup for Brood War has an average age of 31.6 years, exactly 5 years older, and it's still going strong and competitive with Afreeca's backing. So if Afreeca can mature their monetization model for GSL and the ESL/WTL system can continue to help support teams, we can still see competitive GSL in 5 years.
Edit: actually in 2013 GSL season 1, the average age of the top 16 was 20.4 years old (which was the same average age as top 16 of 2014 GSL S1), so I wouldn't say being 21 was a dinosaur back then. In last the GSL 2023 season 3, the average age was 28.7. So GSL aged 10 years while its average top players aged 8. In 5 years, the average age of GSL players will probably be ~32.
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On February 10 2024 22:29 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2024 12:12 johnnyh123 wrote:On February 05 2024 08:15 Riner1212 wrote:
gsl isnt what it ones was. The entire SC2 scene isn't what it once was, you mean? If you look at the current 24 IEM Katowice 2024 players, their average age is 26.6 years (just did some quick number crunching - simplified to just their age rounded down, e.g., 26.8 y.o. = 26 y.o., as we conventionally do socially). With the youngest being Trigger, 21 years and 7 months old - 10 days younger than Reynor. Back in the early days, say in 2013, most of them would be considered "Dinosaurs" lol. But hey, we are still here, right? After playing and watching for 13+ years. Yeah and the current ASL 17 lineup for Brood War has an average age of 31.6 years, exactly 5 years older, and it's still going strong and competitive with Afreeca's backing. So if Afreeca can mature their monetization model for GSL and the ESL/WTL system can continue to help support teams, we can still see competitive GSL in 5 years. Edit: actually in 2013 GSL season 1, the average age of the top 16 was 20.4 years old (which was the same average age as top 16 of 2014 GSL S1), so I wouldn't say being 21 was a dinosaur back then. In last the GSL 2023 season 3, the average age was 28.7. So GSL aged 10 years while its average top players aged 8. In 5 years, the average age of GSL players will probably be ~32.
The bigger concern is that there's no new blood in the Korean scene. Like almost all the players in GSL have been playing since WotL early 2013 by the latest with the sole exception of Nightmare who probably started in HotS around 2013/2014 and is incidentally the youngest at age 24 (Nightmare GOAT in 5 years?).
This problem also extends to the foreign scene, where almost all the foreign players started playing SC2 since 2012/2013 with exceptions of Oliveira who started in 2014 and trigger who shockingly started in LotV ~2019/2020 and is also the youngest player at 21 (trigger foreigner GOAT inc).
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On February 10 2024 22:29 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2024 12:12 johnnyh123 wrote:On February 05 2024 08:15 Riner1212 wrote:
gsl isnt what it ones was. The entire SC2 scene isn't what it once was, you mean? If you look at the current 24 IEM Katowice 2024 players, their average age is 26.6 years (just did some quick number crunching - simplified to just their age rounded down, e.g., 26.8 y.o. = 26 y.o., as we conventionally do socially). With the youngest being Trigger, 21 years and 7 months old - 10 days younger than Reynor. Back in the early days, say in 2013, most of them would be considered "Dinosaurs" lol. But hey, we are still here, right? After playing and watching for 13+ years. Yeah and the current ASL 17 lineup for Brood War has an average age of 31.6 years, exactly 5 years older, and it's still going strong and competitive with Afreeca's backing. So if Afreeca can mature their monetization model for GSL and the ESL/WTL system can continue to help support teams, we can still see competitive GSL in 5 years. Edit: actually in 2013 GSL season 1, the average age of the top 16 was 20.4 years old (which was the same average age as top 16 of 2014 GSL S1), so I wouldn't say being 21 was a dinosaur back then. In last the GSL 2023 season 3, the average age was 28.7. So GSL aged 10 years while its average top players aged 8. In 5 years, the average age of GSL players will probably be ~32.
Nah its different with ASL, BW. You can get up to 200k+ viewers to watch BW and the guy who sponsors these loves BW and is a COO of Afreeca. No one really knows that GSL is even played. It probably will face certain death after 2 years.
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On February 10 2024 22:29 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2024 12:12 johnnyh123 wrote:On February 05 2024 08:15 Riner1212 wrote:
gsl isnt what it ones was. The entire SC2 scene isn't what it once was, you mean? If you look at the current 24 IEM Katowice 2024 players, their average age is 26.6 years (just did some quick number crunching - simplified to just their age rounded down, e.g., 26.8 y.o. = 26 y.o., as we conventionally do socially). With the youngest being Trigger, 21 years and 7 months old - 10 days younger than Reynor. Back in the early days, say in 2013, most of them would be considered "Dinosaurs" lol. But hey, we are still here, right? After playing and watching for 13+ years. Yeah and the current ASL 17 lineup for Brood War has an average age of 31.6 years, exactly 5 years older, and it's still going strong and competitive with Afreeca's backing. So if Afreeca can mature their monetization model for GSL and the ESL/WTL system can continue to help support teams, we can still see competitive GSL in 5 years. Edit: actually in 2013 GSL season 1, the average age of the top 16 was 20.4 years old (which was the same average age as top 16 of 2014 GSL S1), so I wouldn't say being 21 was a dinosaur back then. In last the GSL 2023 season 3, the average age was 28.7. So GSL aged 10 years while its average top players aged 8. In 5 years, the average age of GSL players will probably be ~32.
Yeah, fingers crossed for GSL to make it a lot further.
Right, the way I phrased the "dinosaurs" sentence is a bit unclear. I agree 21 y.o. is not considered old, like Trigger/Reynor/Clem. What I meant to say was that since the average age at IEM Katowice is 26.6, "most" or the majority of the players now (mostly >26) would be considered "dinosaurs" back in 2013/14.
Interesting stuff on the GSL 20.4 avg age in 2013 vs 28.7 in 2023.
Though, the best-case scenario is somehow bringing new blood to the scene - super curious if there are any younger players <18, and if so, what got them into SC2. But with the attention span of today's youth of like 6~8 seconds, it might be difficult...
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On February 11 2024 12:16 johnnyh123 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2024 22:29 argonautdice wrote:On February 10 2024 12:12 johnnyh123 wrote:On February 05 2024 08:15 Riner1212 wrote:
gsl isnt what it ones was. The entire SC2 scene isn't what it once was, you mean? If you look at the current 24 IEM Katowice 2024 players, their average age is 26.6 years (just did some quick number crunching - simplified to just their age rounded down, e.g., 26.8 y.o. = 26 y.o., as we conventionally do socially). With the youngest being Trigger, 21 years and 7 months old - 10 days younger than Reynor. Back in the early days, say in 2013, most of them would be considered "Dinosaurs" lol. But hey, we are still here, right? After playing and watching for 13+ years. Yeah and the current ASL 17 lineup for Brood War has an average age of 31.6 years, exactly 5 years older, and it's still going strong and competitive with Afreeca's backing. So if Afreeca can mature their monetization model for GSL and the ESL/WTL system can continue to help support teams, we can still see competitive GSL in 5 years. Edit: actually in 2013 GSL season 1, the average age of the top 16 was 20.4 years old (which was the same average age as top 16 of 2014 GSL S1), so I wouldn't say being 21 was a dinosaur back then. In last the GSL 2023 season 3, the average age was 28.7. So GSL aged 10 years while its average top players aged 8. In 5 years, the average age of GSL players will probably be ~32. Yeah, fingers crossed for GSL to make it a lot further. Right, the way I phrased the "dinosaurs" sentence is a bit unclear. I agree 21 y.o. is not considered old, like Trigger/Reynor/Clem. What I meant to say was that since the average age at IEM Katowice is 26.6, "most" or the majority of the players now (mostly >26) would be considered "dinosaurs" back in 2013/14. Interesting stuff on the GSL 20.4 avg age in 2013 vs 28.7 in 2023. Though, the best-case scenario is somehow bringing new blood to the scene - super curious if there are any younger players <18, and if so, what got them into SC2. But with the attention span of today's youth of like 6~8 seconds, it might be difficult...
I think that’s as much a mistake people made assuming that eSports players would peak and wash out in their early 20s, without a huge amount of evidence.
But yeah it’s hard to see where the next generation is coming from
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On February 11 2024 17:45 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 12:16 johnnyh123 wrote:On February 10 2024 22:29 argonautdice wrote:On February 10 2024 12:12 johnnyh123 wrote:On February 05 2024 08:15 Riner1212 wrote:
gsl isnt what it ones was. The entire SC2 scene isn't what it once was, you mean? If you look at the current 24 IEM Katowice 2024 players, their average age is 26.6 years (just did some quick number crunching - simplified to just their age rounded down, e.g., 26.8 y.o. = 26 y.o., as we conventionally do socially). With the youngest being Trigger, 21 years and 7 months old - 10 days younger than Reynor. Back in the early days, say in 2013, most of them would be considered "Dinosaurs" lol. But hey, we are still here, right? After playing and watching for 13+ years. Yeah and the current ASL 17 lineup for Brood War has an average age of 31.6 years, exactly 5 years older, and it's still going strong and competitive with Afreeca's backing. So if Afreeca can mature their monetization model for GSL and the ESL/WTL system can continue to help support teams, we can still see competitive GSL in 5 years. Edit: actually in 2013 GSL season 1, the average age of the top 16 was 20.4 years old (which was the same average age as top 16 of 2014 GSL S1), so I wouldn't say being 21 was a dinosaur back then. In last the GSL 2023 season 3, the average age was 28.7. So GSL aged 10 years while its average top players aged 8. In 5 years, the average age of GSL players will probably be ~32. Yeah, fingers crossed for GSL to make it a lot further. Right, the way I phrased the "dinosaurs" sentence is a bit unclear. I agree 21 y.o. is not considered old, like Trigger/Reynor/Clem. What I meant to say was that since the average age at IEM Katowice is 26.6, "most" or the majority of the players now (mostly >26) would be considered "dinosaurs" back in 2013/14. Interesting stuff on the GSL 20.4 avg age in 2013 vs 28.7 in 2023. Though, the best-case scenario is somehow bringing new blood to the scene - super curious if there are any younger players <18, and if so, what got them into SC2. But with the attention span of today's youth of like 6~8 seconds, it might be difficult... I think that’s as much a mistake people made assuming that eSports players would peak and wash out in their early 20s, without a huge amount of evidence. But yeah it’s hard to see where the next generation is coming from
I don't think that was a mistake, there are just no players to replace the current generation so they can just keep winning forever.
ByuN and Dark confirmed they feel way slower than they used to
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On February 11 2024 17:48 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2024 17:45 WombaT wrote:On February 11 2024 12:16 johnnyh123 wrote:On February 10 2024 22:29 argonautdice wrote:On February 10 2024 12:12 johnnyh123 wrote:On February 05 2024 08:15 Riner1212 wrote:
gsl isnt what it ones was. The entire SC2 scene isn't what it once was, you mean? If you look at the current 24 IEM Katowice 2024 players, their average age is 26.6 years (just did some quick number crunching - simplified to just their age rounded down, e.g., 26.8 y.o. = 26 y.o., as we conventionally do socially). With the youngest being Trigger, 21 years and 7 months old - 10 days younger than Reynor. Back in the early days, say in 2013, most of them would be considered "Dinosaurs" lol. But hey, we are still here, right? After playing and watching for 13+ years. Yeah and the current ASL 17 lineup for Brood War has an average age of 31.6 years, exactly 5 years older, and it's still going strong and competitive with Afreeca's backing. So if Afreeca can mature their monetization model for GSL and the ESL/WTL system can continue to help support teams, we can still see competitive GSL in 5 years. Edit: actually in 2013 GSL season 1, the average age of the top 16 was 20.4 years old (which was the same average age as top 16 of 2014 GSL S1), so I wouldn't say being 21 was a dinosaur back then. In last the GSL 2023 season 3, the average age was 28.7. So GSL aged 10 years while its average top players aged 8. In 5 years, the average age of GSL players will probably be ~32. Yeah, fingers crossed for GSL to make it a lot further. Right, the way I phrased the "dinosaurs" sentence is a bit unclear. I agree 21 y.o. is not considered old, like Trigger/Reynor/Clem. What I meant to say was that since the average age at IEM Katowice is 26.6, "most" or the majority of the players now (mostly >26) would be considered "dinosaurs" back in 2013/14. Interesting stuff on the GSL 20.4 avg age in 2013 vs 28.7 in 2023. Though, the best-case scenario is somehow bringing new blood to the scene - super curious if there are any younger players <18, and if so, what got them into SC2. But with the attention span of today's youth of like 6~8 seconds, it might be difficult... I think that’s as much a mistake people made assuming that eSports players would peak and wash out in their early 20s, without a huge amount of evidence. But yeah it’s hard to see where the next generation is coming from I don't think that was a mistake, there are just no players to replace the current generation so they can just keep winning forever. ByuN and Dark confirmed they feel way slower than they used to
They don’t exactly look it! But yeah they’re on record and they of course know themselves.
And as someone said if the game was a speed-off Reynor and Clem would be duking it out for every tourney.
The ‘mistake’ I allude to was a quite widespread opinion that progamers would be ‘too old’ at an absurdly low cutoff at times. I think the last 5/6 years showcase that that was incorrect, in a couple of different games.
What has churned people out quite young, historically is probably more injuries and burnout rather than pure age. Dark and Byun have probably lasted as long as they have because they haven’t had to go at 100% the whole time to stay relevant. But as you say, competition is a huge part of that. Dark, Byun/whoever don’t have to push themselves mechanically to that same degree because there’s nobody emerging to push them aside from being relevant.
Perceived wisdom among many back in the day was that even mid-20s was ‘too old’ which was the mistake I was referring to, I agree that the competition contracting is huge. But I mean Serral is 25 now and he’s as mechanically clean a player to observe him as anyone’s been in this game.
If the game was back to peak competition I could see players sticking around 25+ but it would take a huge effort, avoiding injuries and motivational burnout to stay at the top of the tree. Latter day Innovation was still showing plenty of flashes, but it was common knowledge he was no longer hungry for it, but it wasn’t his age holding him back.
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On February 10 2024 12:12 johnnyh123 wrote:The entire SC2 scene isn't what it once was, you mean? If you look at the current 24 IEM Katowice 2024 players, their average age is 26.6 years (just did some quick number crunching - simplified to just their age rounded down, e.g., 26.8 y.o. = 26 y.o., as we conventionally do socially). With the youngest being Trigger, 21 years and 7 months old - 10 days younger than Reynor. Back in the early days, say in 2013, most of them would be considered "Dinosaurs" lol. But hey, we are still here, right? After playing and watching for 13+ years.
The average age of a NBA player is 26.03 years.
This "25 yr old e-sports player is basically a dinosaur!" was always total bs. At least physical ability wise, of course.
The biggest problem of both Starcraft titles is that both 1v1 games and RTS games in particular are just not very popular these days. While 5v5 games are more popular than ever.
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why trim 1 season if crowdfund is a thing
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On February 12 2024 03:10 duckTemplar wrote:
why trim 1 season if crowdfund is a thing
I wondered this, can you not launch the Patreon appeal, see how much appetite there is and see if there’s enough to stretch to 3 seasons? If not, so be it.
Instead of limiting the possibility from the start.
If there’s probably one thing people would crowdfund it’s keeping the GSL and Korean scene, especially when it doesn’t get much love from other sources like it used to when Blizzard at least chipped in.
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EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2024/2024prize.png)
