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Russian Federation195 Posts
On September 15 2023 03:33 luxon wrote:
ideally everyone just does what harstem does, he has a cheese account and cheese at his actual mmr, and does this for all 3 races.
But this is way harder, right? You have to put work into getting good enough with different strategies of different races at nearly your real MMR. Intead, you don't have to put a fuck into going 2k MMR below and make spectacular videos easily.
While viewers are ready to watch this shit quality content that doesn't require to put any efforts to be made, the majority of the streamers will go this easier way of smurfing 1k+ MMR (hiding it with switching the scene if required).
If you don't accept it — do not watch it.
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Northern Ireland24913 Posts
On September 15 2023 03:29 Fleetfeet wrote:
Grubby does this kind of stuff all the time in WC3. It's entertaining if done right.
Been a while since I watched the Grubster but didn’t he used to play pretty straight up doing whacky stuff relatively close to his actual MMRs?
I think WC3 is a little more forgiving/unforgiving in this regard like a player of Grubby’s calibre can still beat a good ladder player with all his races/even doing silly things.
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On September 15 2023 07:01 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 03:29 Fleetfeet wrote:
Grubby does this kind of stuff all the time in WC3. It's entertaining if done right. Been a while since I watched the Grubster but didn’t he used to play pretty straight up doing whacky stuff relatively close to his actual MMRs? I think WC3 is a little more forgiving/unforgiving in this regard like a player of Grubby’s calibre can still beat a good ladder player with all his races/even doing silly things.
Lately, Grubby just does some really whacky stuff, though he does it on BNet.
Last one for example was a "counter yourself"-challenge, so he always build something that was bad against the stuff his opponent had. Or he tried to do a Wyrm-Chimera rush
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SoCal8910 Posts
On September 14 2023 23:59 BisuDagger wrote:
How do we know the OP isn't a smurf account? Next thread should be "Uthermal is smurfing on TL to troll high post TL accounts"
can't wait to see the thumbnail for this video
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United States33326 Posts
It's settled business in StarCraft II since Blizzard have taken their hands off the issue, but it's worth noting that other prominent games are 'officially' anti-smurfing. Dota2 took a very hard stance recently, League of Legends is at least nominally looking for solutions, and Blizzard attempted a phone number verification system in Overwatch at least partially due to smurfing (toxicity + cheating also played factor).
To come to these conclusions, they must clearly think the benefit of their game being streamed/youtubed is outweighed by negative experiences of the actual players.
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On September 15 2023 07:01 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 03:29 Fleetfeet wrote:
Grubby does this kind of stuff all the time in WC3. It's entertaining if done right. Been a while since I watched the Grubster but didn’t he used to play pretty straight up doing whacky stuff relatively close to his actual MMRs? I think WC3 is a little more forgiving/unforgiving in this regard like a player of Grubby’s calibre can still beat a good ladder player with all his races/even doing silly things.
Like post above mentioned, it's more super silly stuff as the equalizer between MMR. He's not playing fresh accounts as far as I can tell, but garbage like "paladin only no units" etc combined with him talking through his movements/decisions in unusual circumstances makes it entertaining and 'close'. At the end of the day he's stomping people he's much better than, but not doing so in a maliciously stompy way.
I also agree that WC3 is a better landscape for this kind of thing than sc2 for a number of reasons!
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I do think there's a moderate difference between smurfing with the intent of continuously farming noobs for fun (ie, throwing games to drop your MMR back down after crushing people), and doing self-imposed challenges. At least in a self-imposed challenge, they should move up as much as their skill with whatever challenge permits. If they are only good enough to reach diamond only using zerglings before they start losing 50%, then I see no real problem. Opponents would still be winning half of their games, and losing half of their games.
But one thing that Chess.com (and I think also Lichess?) has done is make it so smurfing / challenge accounts provide no negative rating to opponents who lose. So Hikaru can do his silly queen sacrifice 0 to GM speedchess runs, but none of his opponents will suffer any rating loss if they lose, they can only gain from it. It's still not a perfect solution, but I think this removes the bitter taste of GMs ruining the ladder. Sure, the game wasn't "authentic", but I think it's a reasonable compromise.
You could argue that any time a pro player decides to try an off-race, that's the equivalent of smurfing, since they're probably GM with any off-race, but would not be immediately placed in GM MMR with a new race. I'm sure there's other somewhat comparable scenarios that are similar.
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sorry folks, smurfing or bronze 2 GM videos as a form of substantive content are a plague on the starcraft scene
if you want to do the same premise, invite your twitch/discord subscribers to 1v1 match as Uthermal or Harstem or whoever proceeds to dunk on them and its all fun and games. you do this on ladder, and im afraid im going to have to become a Marxist against you capitalist pigs
like really, starcraft 2 is one of the most durable games of all time, stop poisoning the well
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On September 15 2023 09:28 Waxangel wrote:It's settled business in StarCraft II since Blizzard have taken their hands off the issue, but it's worth noting that other prominent games are 'officially' anti-smurfing. Dota2 took a very hard stance recently, League of Legends is at least nominally looking for solutions, and Blizzard attempted a phone number verification system in Overwatch at least partially due to smurfing. To come to these conclusions, they must clearly think the benefit of their game being streamed/youtubed is outweighed by negative experiences of the actual players.
I mean, why would I queue for 1v1 ladder when I know there is a high chance of a smurf not only stomping me but also making fun of me with his viewers? Like "look at this guy, only 100 apm and supply blocked again. what a loser" . No thank you!
So yeah, smurfing is actually killing the player base and to be real, there is a shitton of smurfs active these days, probably more than people playing at their actual MMR.
What I really want to see is a Reynor smurf destroying a Uthermal smurf. Now that I would watch
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United States33326 Posts
On September 15 2023 15:55 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 09:28 Waxangel wrote:It's settled business in StarCraft II since Blizzard have taken their hands off the issue, but it's worth noting that other prominent games are 'officially' anti-smurfing. Dota2 took a very hard stance recently, League of Legends is at least nominally looking for solutions, and Blizzard attempted a phone number verification system in Overwatch at least partially due to smurfing. To come to these conclusions, they must clearly think the benefit of their game being streamed/youtubed is outweighed by negative experiences of the actual players. I mean, why would I queue for 1v1 ladder when I know there is a high chance of a smurf not only stomping me but also making fun of me with his viewers? Like "look at this guy, only 100 apm and supply blocked again. what a loser" . No thank you! So yeah, smurfing is actually killing the player base and to be real, there is a shitton of smurfs active these days, probably more than people playing at their actual MMR. What I really want to see is a Reynor smurf destroying a Uthermal smurf. Now that I would watch
I think saying "killing" is going to a hard extreme. But, I have to say, the PERCEPTION of smurfs being rampant could be bad for your game, regardless of the reality.
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France12771 Posts
I don't see the problem though:
I would much rather be cannon rushed, or only ghosts TvT or whatever silly strat by a competent player like uThermal, and even have the opportunity to have my replay on youtube, than by random strangers. Usually, he gains MMR fast enough not to "farm" the same people over and over again.
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
On September 15 2023 00:26 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2023 22:37 Charoisaur wrote:On September 14 2023 22:17 WombaT wrote:
Is it really smurfing if you’re just playing silly things?
Not so much SC but the proliferation of skill-based-matchmaking into absolutely every game means you play somewhat serious or you lose, dicking around or playing with silly weapons and chars against players as good has you isn’t destined to work out as too good a time. Yeah but cannon rush isn't really a "silly thing". it's a widely used strat, that people usually find obnoxious to play against. I usually enjoy watching his challenges but this one leaves a bad taste I mean I hate it myself I just assumed there was some kind of flavour or additional gimmick, like anything else in this vein I’ve seen him do.
It's kinda transitioned over time from stuff like ghosts to grandmaster (which was more legit and a good addition to the game IMO) to games without relevant limitations which are just stomping newbies for fun. Doesn't feel like it belongs in the same category when instead of killing somebody with 30 ghosts he is doing fast expand > 3gate adept prism drops against the same guy who has a projected <=10% winrate.
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On September 15 2023 16:19 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 15:55 Harris1st wrote:On September 15 2023 09:28 Waxangel wrote:It's settled business in StarCraft II since Blizzard have taken their hands off the issue, but it's worth noting that other prominent games are 'officially' anti-smurfing. Dota2 took a very hard stance recently, League of Legends is at least nominally looking for solutions, and Blizzard attempted a phone number verification system in Overwatch at least partially due to smurfing. To come to these conclusions, they must clearly think the benefit of their game being streamed/youtubed is outweighed by negative experiences of the actual players. I mean, why would I queue for 1v1 ladder when I know there is a high chance of a smurf not only stomping me but also making fun of me with his viewers? Like "look at this guy, only 100 apm and supply blocked again. what a loser" . No thank you! So yeah, smurfing is actually killing the player base and to be real, there is a shitton of smurfs active these days, probably more than people playing at their actual MMR. What I really want to see is a Reynor smurf destroying a Uthermal smurf. Now that I would watch I think saying "killing" is going to a hard extreme. But, I have to say, the PERCEPTION of smurfs being rampant could be bad for your game, regardless of the reality.
Fair enough.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Smurfing is honestly something only assholes can do or justify.
"I'll have fun at the expense of these other people" "they tried their best to het to this mmr?, well to bad, I spend 10 hours a day playing, I will cheat the system so we are matched together when we shouldn't, and I will make fun of them by publicly trolling and cheesing them in front of my viewers".
Whenever I play, I want a challenge. If I lose due to bs I hate it. If I win due to bs I'll take it, but I won't like it. To the point I sometimes apologize for winning due to luck.
If I play vs a person who completely outplays me and also trolls me by using shitty builds, I'll hate it. I can only play very few games per week now, and I don't want to spend them in a doomed game being made fun of.
And then the viewers see that and start smurfing themselves.
It's completely selfish,
"I don't care" "People watch it" "get good and this won't happen" I don't care, it's objectively an asshole thing to do, and ruins the experience of the actual players.
And like Valve Realized and Waxangel hints at, having the perception of rampant smurfs (or actually having them), could very well be bad for the game, in a game that already doesn't have that big of a playerbase.
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It's pretty obvious that these people complaining about smurfing don't actually play ladder. The number of smurfs you actually encounter is unbelievably tiny in 1v1. And if you occasionally encounter one... so what? You don't even get your feelings hurt for losing, as they were bound to win, maybe you played someone famous on stream which is cool, and you have a nice replay of how to play much better than you do. I really don't get the objection to pros making this type of content.
If you're looking for someone to blame for why you have ladder anxiety, look in the mirror, and work on yourself.
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On September 15 2023 16:47 Haighstrom wrote:
It's pretty obvious that these people complaining about smurfing don't actually play ladder. The number of smurfs you actually encounter is unbelievably tiny in 1v1. And if you occasionally encounter one... so what? You don't even get your feelings hurt for losing, as they were bound to win, maybe you played someone famous on stream which is cool, and you have a nice replay of how to play much better than you do. I really don't get the objection to pros making this type of content.
If you're looking for someone to blame for why you have ladder anxiety, look in the mirror, and work on yourself.
Yeah I agree that this is way overblown by people with a toxic mindset who want to blame something other than themselves.
Uthermal is usually pretty quickly facing high master/low-mid gm players who he could face even on his normal accounts, and who definitely can beat him on his challenge accounts.
If you are salty about losing to a uthermal smurf it's on you
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France12771 Posts
On September 15 2023 16:47 Haighstrom wrote:
It's pretty obvious that these people complaining about smurfing don't actually play ladder. The number of smurfs you actually encounter is unbelievably tiny in 1v1. And if you occasionally encounter one... so what? You don't even get your feelings hurt for losing, as they were bound to win, maybe you played someone famous on stream which is cool, and you have a nice replay of how to play much better than you do. I really don't get the objection to pros making this type of content.
If you're looking for someone to blame for why you have ladder anxiety, look in the mirror, and work on yourself.
Basically this.
People dropping games to lower their MMR and actually smurf is an issue (albeit I don't think there are that many of them), but pros ranking up new accounts for challenges is not a particularly big deal, as long as they only try to rank up and don't drop games on purpose to lower their MMR
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I don t think "smurf" is an action. it looks like a mentality.
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Russian Federation389 Posts
I completely agree with the OP, I had the same thoughts recently. Marc has been degrading steadily to become a huge troll..
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EPT
