EPT
HomeStory Cup 23 announced (June 30-July 2)
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Waxangel
United States33475 Posts
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tigera6
3433 Posts
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Husyelt
United States837 Posts
On May 06 2023 11:20 tigera6 wrote: Great news and all, but why are we having this 2 weeks after DH Summer, just move it 1 week earlier so that non-EU players dont have to travel home and back again. Complain away naysayer. I welcome any new tournament because I am better than you | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Kashim
Poland1210 Posts
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tigera6
3433 Posts
On May 06 2023 12:20 Husyelt wrote: Complain away naysayer. I welcome any new tournament because I am better than you Nah, tournament are always a plus, I am just trying to see why cant we have the full experience better. Remember how HSC last year was smacked right in the middle of GSL and non of the top KR was able to play? Its a shame if the scheduling become the reason why the fans and viewer cant have the full roster of top players in the world competing. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4225 Posts
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Wardi
England897 Posts
On May 06 2023 15:36 tigera6 wrote: Nah, tournament are always a plus, I am just trying to see why cant we have the full experience better. Remember how HSC last year was smacked right in the middle of GSL and non of the top KR was able to play? Its a shame if the scheduling become the reason why the fans and viewer cant have the full roster of top players in the world competing. Because it just doesn’t work like that. I also think HSC would love it if they could guarantee more players, but there is a lot that goes into deciding dates and so on. And last year they had approval from ESL/Blizzard for their schedule (I cant remember which) but they forgot HSC was scheduled and allowed GSL to schedule over it. A lot of people would say having the tournament the weekend after DH is also worse because its too much having the back to back weekends of big events | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1817 Posts
On May 06 2023 15:56 Wardi wrote: Because it just doesn’t work like that. I also think HSC would love it if they could guarantee more players, but there is a lot that goes into deciding dates and so on. And last year they had approval from ESL/Blizzard for their schedule (I cant remember which) but they forgot HSC was scheduled and allowed GSL to schedule over it. A lot of people would say having the tournament the weekend after DH is also worse because its too much having the back to back weekends of big events Except it can work like that. You can't just say it doesn't work like that without providing proof. You clearly don't know the situation directly so don't pretend you do. Taketv is allowed to disprove this, not you. | ||
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tigera6
3433 Posts
On May 06 2023 15:56 Wardi wrote: Because it just doesn’t work like that. I also think HSC would love it if they could guarantee more players, but there is a lot that goes into deciding dates and so on. And last year they had approval from ESL/Blizzard for their schedule (I cant remember which) but they forgot HSC was scheduled and allowed GSL to schedule over it. A lot of people would say having the tournament the weekend after DH is also worse because its too much having the back to back weekends of big events I have zero experience with hosting SC2 event, and I know that TakeTV has lost money on doing HSC so I do feel bad for them. This is not me trying to shade the organizer for trying their best at keeping the scene alive, I will always support SC2 tournament for the sake of the esport and players. However, I do feel a trend going where tournaments are scheduled with conflict / inconvenience when it doesnt have to be. Now, maybe there are lots of things going into this like you said, so I have no idea what I am saying at all. But I do know that asking somebody to do do inter-continental flight 4 times in 2 weeks, plus the jet lag in between while asking them to perform at top condition is humanly improbable. Maybe this has happened a lots before in SC2 scene and that players are totally ready for it, so I guess I could be wrong again. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1229 Posts
On May 06 2023 18:48 tigera6 wrote: I have zero experience with hosting SC2 event, and I know that TakeTV has lost money on doing HSC so I do feel bad for them. This is not me trying to shade the organizer for trying their best at keeping the scene alive, I will always support SC2 tournament for the sake of the esport and players. However, I do feel a trend going where tournaments are scheduled with conflict / inconvenience when it doesnt have to be. Now, maybe there are lots of things going into this like you said, so I have no idea what I am saying at all. But I do know that asking somebody to do do inter-continental flight 4 times in 2 weeks, plus the jet lag in between while asking them to perform at top condition is humanly improbable. Maybe this has happened a lots before in SC2 scene and that players are totally ready for it, so I guess I could be wrong again. Problems I can imagine: - Players still would need to pay for the travel from Jönköping to Krefeld. - Players would need to pay for the stay in-between tournaments, so a full week payment for a hotel that for sure no one will cover - Where do said players train in the meantime? The TakeTV-house is probably in full preparation for HSC, so players would need to find gaming cafes or whatnot to train during the week - If players boost their income with streams, they might lose a full week on that income because they can't properly stream on travel - With only one week in between, especially for the players doing a deep run in Sweden, there is little time to prepare for HSC. Fatigue also might kick in at some point, considering how much games especially players from the open bracket might have already played in Jönköping...and then you have instant travel, hotel stay and no place to properly grind | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
"HOME. STORY. CUP." | ||
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BelethielQT
90 Posts
On May 06 2023 18:42 CicadaSC wrote: Except it can work like that. You can't just say it doesn't work like that without providing proof. You clearly don't know the situation directly so don't pretend you do. Taketv is allowed to disprove this, not you. Wardi knows for sure more than you | ||
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isabellamark
1 Post
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Philippe
354 Posts
Voltz defends the NA interests, which is fair game but isn't enough on itself. I'll sum up one thing : only leaving a single week between two Premier events is likely to result in a poorer experience for everybody because of some of the reasons already said above. Teams and players won't spend less money nor less jet lagging. The only way this would work is if HSC is hosted literally in the same country as DreamHack (in this case Sweden), but it is hosted in Germany. | ||
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Tommy131313
Germany156 Posts
On May 06 2023 18:42 CicadaSC wrote: Except it can work like that. You can't just say it doesn't work like that without providing proof. You clearly don't know the situation directly so don't pretend you do. Taketv is allowed to disprove this, not you. Sorry man, that's BS. Wardi knows the background on this quite well. He's usually in close contact with TaKe and NarutO. Imho he is totally allowed to put things right in this matter. Besides that - HSC! HSC! HSC! I'm so thrilled about HSC XXIII really taking off this summer. And if I can squeeze in a day or two in my schedule, I will definitely go to Krefeld to experience the fantastic live atmosphere again   | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
On May 06 2023 18:42 CicadaSC wrote: Except it can work like that. You can't just say it doesn't work like that without providing proof. You clearly don't know the situation directly so don't pretend you do. Taketv is allowed to disprove this, not you. Its fair critique from tiger6. Unfortunately the schedule wasn't fully ready and we need to decide on dates for our events beforehand as well. So taking "a free guaranteed date" we can run it takes priority over "profiting form players being in Europe". But its fair critique. If we knew we would have gladly worked something out there. | ||
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tigera6
3433 Posts
On May 06 2023 21:09 Balnazza wrote: Problems I can imagine: - Players still would need to pay for the travel from Jönköping to Krefeld. - Players would need to pay for the stay in-between tournaments, so a full week payment for a hotel that for sure no one will cover - Where do said players train in the meantime? The TakeTV-house is probably in full preparation for HSC, so players would need to find gaming cafes or whatnot to train during the week - If players boost their income with streams, they might lose a full week on that income because they can't properly stream on travel - With only one week in between, especially for the players doing a deep run in Sweden, there is little time to prepare for HSC. Fatigue also might kick in at some point, considering how much games especially players from the open bracket might have already played in Jönköping...and then you have instant travel, hotel stay and no place to properly grind Cost-wise, I would assume its cheaper to fly the player from Sweden to Germany and then back to KR/NA instead of having another round trip flight for HSC? HSC still pay the full trip for players who qualified right? As for the hotel cost, I am also assuming player would leave on the Monday after DH, and normally they arrive at HSC on Thursday, so technically its a 3-4 days of living expense, would that be enough to off-set the cheaper flight cost? As for player income from streaming, I dont see non-EU players are really making money from streaming, if at all. And I dont mean this as a disrespect, but I think players already have enough preparation for DH Global, so that another 10 days of preparation wouldnt make a huge difference imo, its more about the conditioning of those players. And you are right, players might prefer to travel back home for 7-8 days and then travel again, although to me thats the option cause more fatigue. There just might not be a real perfect solution then. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
On May 07 2023 00:01 tigera6 wrote: Cost-wise, I would assume its cheaper to fly the player from Sweden to Germany and then back to KR/NA instead of having another round trip flight for HSC? HSC still pay the full trip for players who qualified right? As for the hotel cost, I am also assuming player would leave on the Monday after DH, and normally they arrive at HSC on Thursday, so technically its a 3-4 days of living expense, would that be enough to off-set the cheaper flight cost? As for player income from streaming, I dont see non-EU players are really making money from streaming, if at all. And I dont mean this as a disrespect, but I think players already have enough preparation for DH Global, so that another 10 days of preparation wouldnt make a huge difference imo, its more about the conditioning of those players. And you are right, players might prefer to travel back home for 7-8 days and then travel again, although to me thats the option cause more fatigue. There just might not be a real perfect solution then. See post above | ||
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aringadingding
478 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden788 Posts
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Telephone
United States143 Posts
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zatic
Zurich15355 Posts
 Won't be able to make it this time. Sure will watch though! | ||
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BradTheBaneling
37 Posts
On May 06 2023 18:48 tigera6 wrote: I have zero experience with hosting SC2 event, and I know that TakeTV has lost money on doing HSC so I do feel bad for them. This is not me trying to shade the organizer for trying their best at keeping the scene alive, I will always support SC2 tournament for the sake of the esport and players. However, I do feel a trend going where tournaments are scheduled with conflict / inconvenience when it doesnt have to be. Now, maybe there are lots of things going into this like you said, so I have no idea what I am saying at all. But I do know that asking somebody to do do inter-continental flight 4 times in 2 weeks, plus the jet lag in between while asking them to perform at top condition is humanly improbable. Maybe this has happened a lots before in SC2 scene and that players are totally ready for it, so I guess I could be wrong again. You’re saying that you have no experience in scheduling tournaments and don’t have knowledge of the complexities that arise from hosting a live tournament with tens of thousands of dollars in prize money/ operational costs. Have you considered that of the two possible situations you mention, which of the two seems more likely to have occurred? There are dozens of hypothetical reasons why it “had” to be this weekend. We don’t know if any of them are true but I think we can both assume that in organizing a tournament there are going to be factors that will affect scheduling of the tournament. The alternative that you’re suggesting is that the tournament had no scheduling factors and that a decision was made to intentionally have it two weeks after DH. I don’t think you’re suggesting that Take wants worse games at his tournament or is trying to harm the players of a game that he’s ran over 20 tournaments for; what hypothetical reason could account for both the lack of scheduling factors and the intentional two week gap from DH to HSC? | ||
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FuDDx
United States5008 Posts
.would love to come make balloons and hang out once more!! | ||
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tlnetuser108
83 Posts
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v1p3r52
New Zealand182 Posts
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nostrasbeefs
29 Posts
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Lambertus
South Africa977 Posts
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tommey.liang
United States363 Posts
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JJH777
United States4414 Posts
On May 07 2023 10:02 tlnetuser108 wrote: Hoping for a 6 figure prize pool That would be awesome but has any HSC ever had a 6 figure prize pool? The scheduling is unfortunate not just from a jetlag timeframe but also from a we went almost 4 months with no offline events and now have 2 a couple weeks apart. That's not ideal for viewership or keeping players in top form. More events are always amazing news though. | ||
hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On May 07 2023 10:02 tlnetuser108 wrote: Hoping for a 6 figure prize pool sadly completely unrealistic | ||
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UnLarva
458 Posts
The Global RTS Cult of future yesteryears. | ||
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Azhrak
Finland1196 Posts
Any good tips for accommodation? | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1817 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1817 Posts
On May 07 2023 10:02 tlnetuser108 wrote: Hoping for a 6 figure prize pool lol. youd be lucky to get 5 figures | ||
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On May 17 2023 05:38 CicadaSC wrote: serral confirmed on his stream he will be going i know a few more names already  | ||
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
i can assure you it is 5 figures | ||
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Azhrak
Finland1196 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33475 Posts
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
On June 26 2023 19:15 Waxangel wrote: Not to "defend" HSC per se, but they've typically announced prize money EXTREMELY late (and often just announce the total and not reveal the exact split until during/after the tournament) I think we simply don't feel thats incredibly important. I acutally don't think an announcement of it was planned. Its $10000 total. I have to change the split since I originally planned with a double elim bracket but I swapped the format to 4x6 player Round Robin groups > 8 player single elim playoffs. I will have Liquipedia reflect that change and go live with the format. Any other questions let me know, - Silvano / Bovo | ||
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Gescom
Canada3482 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6992 Posts
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Azhrak
Finland1196 Posts
On June 26 2023 19:42 TaKeTV wrote: I think we simply don't feel thats incredibly important. I acutally don't think an announcement of it was planned. Its $10000 total. I have to change the split since I originally planned with a double elim bracket but I swapped the format to 4x6 player Round Robin groups > 8 player single elim playoffs. I will have Liquipedia reflect that change and go live with the format. Any other questions let me know, - Silvano / Bovo Thanks for the info! I write news about SC2 to the Finnish audience and all tidbits help. The format is sweet as I am in favor of single elim over double elim personally. I think the prize money is pretty important in categorizing the event, and it is also included in the Liquipedia tournament Tier calculation. In addition, the prize money split is very important to the players I'm sure. Edit: Was about to ask about start times for groups but I managed to find the info in the Liquipedia edits: Group A - Friday June 30, 11:00 GMT (+00:00) Group B - Friday June 30, 16:30 GMT (+00:00) Group C - Saturday July 1, 11:00 GMT (+00:00) Group D - Saturday July 1, 16:30 GMT (+00:00) Playoffs start - Sunday July 2, 12:00 GMT (+00:00) | ||
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Kreuger
Sweden788 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1817 Posts
On June 26 2023 19:42 TaKeTV wrote: I think we simply don't feel thats incredibly important. I acutally don't think an announcement of it was planned. Its $10000 total. I have to change the split since I originally planned with a double elim bracket but I swapped the format to 4x6 player Round Robin groups > 8 player single elim playoffs. I will have Liquipedia reflect that change and go live with the format. Any other questions let me know, - Silvano / Bovo Thanks for the info, curious why u decided this instead of double elim? | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
On June 28 2023 20:13 CicadaSC wrote: Thanks for the info, curious why u decided this instead of double elim? There is no incredibly specific reason for SE over DE. I usually put up the format and I thought after a round robin based on 6 players SE looked better than DE , especially with 8 players (for me). If I wanted to play DE I would have preferred to advance 12 players and credit the quarters to #1 ideally. So yea - combination of time-requirements (starting at 2PM instead of 1PM) and not wanting to finish very late. In addition I have a soft spot for being able to show EVERY GAME. We will have each and every game covered at HSC23 via Main + CatZ + Steadfast. Probably not 100% the reasoning you wanted but the best answer I can give you. Greets Silvano/Bovo | ||
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Azzur
Australia6260 Posts
I don't know how my suggestion affects scheduling - my suggestion is to have each group played over 2 days, rather than doing 1 group at a time. This keeps a player "interested" over 2 days rather than being knocked out in the first day. Don't know if the players prefer this or not. | ||
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HeroSandro
531 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1229 Posts
On June 29 2023 15:27 Azzur wrote: I personally like round robins because it guarantee a minimum number of games per player. I don't know how my suggestion affects scheduling - my suggestion is to have each group played over 2 days, rather than doing 1 group at a time. This keeps a player "interested" over 2 days rather than being knocked out in the first day. Don't know if the players prefer this or not. Since the goal was to show every match, it creates certain logicistcal problems I assume. It is much easier to manage six players at a time instead of 24. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
rundown and where to find each match | ||
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