|
We all had a formative period when we were not sure how to resolve a starcraft problem, that period usually last until your last game. ;-) Some of us go find their answers by asking other players, be it a friend, a professional coach or simply the strategy section of this forum. Other are more autodidact and read/watch guids or simply plow through until they find their answer.
Personally I prefer to rant about the balance and OP units and the bad ping and carpal tunnels and Mars in opposition. . .
Usualy someone not familiar with Starcraft or RTS will not be a good source if you are looking for some hints. Anyone remembers the Starcraft novels, where they build Goliaths to defend agaisnt Zerglings? Well do not base your strategy on those ignoramus!
What about AI then? And I do not mean copy the in-game AI builds! AI are very good at solving problems, just give 'em all the data and let modern neural networks do their magic. Even older AI weren't to take lightly, anyone remembers why the extractor trick became a thing?
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/160231-zerg-build-order-optimizer
http://lbrandy.com/blog/2010/11/using-genetic-algorithms-to-find-starcraft-2-build-orders/
There is a lot of AI developments around Starcraft, both to play it (since Blizzard released the framework for BW there is AI tournament), but also to predict or analyse it and the games.
But what about an AI that "knows" Starcraft but is not optimised for it or to give players good advices? Modern conversational AI are impressive, but notoriously inaccurate.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-platforms-like-chatgpt-are-easy-to-use-but-also-potentially-dangerous/
Which is why I had some fun with it when I realised that chatGPT does have (kinda) Starcraft in its database, and I started to probe its knowledge. Here is a gem I got from it, please feel free to share other AI tips that are hilarious, either from chatGPT or other, you can also share human crazy suggestions that were given to you seriously (a la : the trick is to max out on battlecruisers as fast as possible).
https://chat.openai.com/chat
Question :
Should I build phoenix or corsair against medevac?
Answer :
In the context of the strategy game Starcraft, the decision to build Phoenix or Corsair units against Medevac units will depend on the specific circumstances of the game and your overall strategy. Both units can be effective against Medevacs, but they excel in different ways.
Here are some factors to consider when deciding between Phoenix and Corsair units against Medevacs:
Cost: Phoenix units are more expensive to produce than Corsair units, so you may want to build Corsairs if you are trying to save resources.
Anti-air capabilities: Phoenix units are stronger against air units in general, and are particularly effective against Medevacs thanks to their Graviton Beam ability, which can lift the Medevac into the air and make it vulnerable to attack. Corsair units are weaker against air units and do not have a specific ability that targets Medevacs.
Detect: Corsair units have the Detect ability, which allows them to reveal cloaked or burrowed units. This can be useful for detecting and eliminating enemy Medevacs that are attempting to sneak up on your army.
Ultimately, the best choice will depend on your overall unit composition, the resources you have available, and your strategy for dealing with enemy Medevacs. It may be useful to have a mix of both Phoenix and Corsair units in your army to cover different bases.
Bonus points:
Find every errors or Waldo.
If you want to try, I suggest you ask it "What is/How to counter Zergling?". I had many gems like : use AoE like Ghost EMP; use faster units that can attack before getting in range, such as Vultures or Zealots; Some units are specifically designed to counter Zerglings, such as the Terran Siege Tank or the Protoss Dark Templar.
So what do you think, will AI outpace humanity in strategy video game soon, or is Skynet only playing the fool?
|
What I've just read?
Corsair vs Medivac? Detect ability? Mix Phoenixes and Corsairs?
|
The chatbot(https://chat.openai.com/chat) is good if you are asking very broad question e.g. "how do i counteract Carriers". If you are getting more specific it shows it's lacking features.
e.g., if you ask very specific: which upgrades you should go for - in mutalisk vs mutalisk it recommends some hydra features, which obviously is not good.
|
Northern Ireland25088 Posts
All this time and I could have been building Corsairs? Why didn’t anybody tell me?!
|
|
|
France12793 Posts
On December 20 2022 15:29 varsovie wrote:We all had a formative period when we were not sure how to resolve a starcraft problem, that period usually last until your last game. ;-) Some of us go find their answers by asking other players, be it a friend, a professional coach or simply the strategy section of this forum. Other are more autodidact and read/watch guids or simply plow through until they find their answer. Personally I prefer to rant about the balance and OP units and the bad ping and carpal tunnels and Mars in opposition. . . Usualy someone not familiar with Starcraft or RTS will not be a good source if you are looking for some hints. Anyone remembers the Starcraft novels, where they build Goliaths to defend agaisnt Zerglings? Well do not base your strategy on those ignoramus! What about AI then? And I do not mean copy the in-game AI builds! AI are very good at solving problems, just give 'em all the data and let modern neural networks do their magic. Even older AI weren't to take lightly, anyone remembers why the extractor trick became a thing? https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/160231-zerg-build-order-optimizerhttp://lbrandy.com/blog/2010/11/using-genetic-algorithms-to-find-starcraft-2-build-orders/There is a lot of AI developments around Starcraft, both to play it (since Blizzard released the framework for BW there is AI tournament), but also to predict or analyse it and the games. But what about an AI that "knows" Starcraft but is not optimised for it or to give players good advices? Modern conversational AI are impressive, but notoriously inaccurate. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-platforms-like-chatgpt-are-easy-to-use-but-also-potentially-dangerous/Which is why I had some fun with it when I realised that chatGPT does have (kinda) Starcraft in its database, and I started to probe its knowledge. Here is a gem I got from it, please feel free to share other AI tips that are hilarious, either from chatGPT or other, you can also share human crazy suggestions that were given to you seriously (a la : the trick is to max out on battlecruisers as fast as possible). https://chat.openai.com/chatShow nested quote +
Question :
Should I build phoenix or corsair against medevac?
Answer :
In the context of the strategy game Starcraft, the decision to build Phoenix or Corsair units against Medevac units will depend on the specific circumstances of the game and your overall strategy. Both units can be effective against Medevacs, but they excel in different ways.
Here are some factors to consider when deciding between Phoenix and Corsair units against Medevacs:
Cost: Phoenix units are more expensive to produce than Corsair units, so you may want to build Corsairs if you are trying to save resources.
Anti-air capabilities: Phoenix units are stronger against air units in general, and are particularly effective against Medevacs thanks to their Graviton Beam ability, which can lift the Medevac into the air and make it vulnerable to attack. Corsair units are weaker against air units and do not have a specific ability that targets Medevacs.
Detect: Corsair units have the Detect ability, which allows them to reveal cloaked or burrowed units. This can be useful for detecting and eliminating enemy Medevacs that are attempting to sneak up on your army.
Ultimately, the best choice will depend on your overall unit composition, the resources you have available, and your strategy for dealing with enemy Medevacs. It may be useful to have a mix of both Phoenix and Corsair units in your army to cover different bases.
Bonus points:
Find every errors or Waldo.
If you want to try, I suggest you ask it "What is/How to counter Zergling?". I had many gems like : use AoE like Ghost EMP; use faster units that can attack before getting in range, such as Vultures or Zealots; Some units are specifically designed to counter Zerglings, such as the Terran Siege Tank or the Protoss Dark Templar. So what do you think, will AI outpace humanity in strategy video game soon, or is Skynet only playing the fool?
AI with neural networks is bound to fail by design, but that’s mainly my opinion. Any of those AI is dumb in essence and trying to combine boxes after boxes trying to mimic the brain is just a pointless waste of time.
|
On December 21 2022 01:16 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2022 15:29 varsovie wrote:We all had a formative period when we were not sure how to resolve a starcraft problem, that period usually last until your last game. ;-) Some of us go find their answers by asking other players, be it a friend, a professional coach or simply the strategy section of this forum. Other are more autodidact and read/watch guids or simply plow through until they find their answer. Personally I prefer to rant about the balance and OP units and the bad ping and carpal tunnels and Mars in opposition. . . Usualy someone not familiar with Starcraft or RTS will not be a good source if you are looking for some hints. Anyone remembers the Starcraft novels, where they build Goliaths to defend agaisnt Zerglings? Well do not base your strategy on those ignoramus! What about AI then? And I do not mean copy the in-game AI builds! AI are very good at solving problems, just give 'em all the data and let modern neural networks do their magic. Even older AI weren't to take lightly, anyone remembers why the extractor trick became a thing? https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/160231-zerg-build-order-optimizerhttp://lbrandy.com/blog/2010/11/using-genetic-algorithms-to-find-starcraft-2-build-orders/There is a lot of AI developments around Starcraft, both to play it (since Blizzard released the framework for BW there is AI tournament), but also to predict or analyse it and the games. But what about an AI that "knows" Starcraft but is not optimised for it or to give players good advices? Modern conversational AI are impressive, but notoriously inaccurate. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-platforms-like-chatgpt-are-easy-to-use-but-also-potentially-dangerous/Which is why I had some fun with it when I realised that chatGPT does have (kinda) Starcraft in its database, and I started to probe its knowledge. Here is a gem I got from it, please feel free to share other AI tips that are hilarious, either from chatGPT or other, you can also share human crazy suggestions that were given to you seriously (a la : the trick is to max out on battlecruisers as fast as possible). https://chat.openai.com/chat
Question :
Should I build phoenix or corsair against medevac?
Answer :
In the context of the strategy game Starcraft, the decision to build Phoenix or Corsair units against Medevac units will depend on the specific circumstances of the game and your overall strategy. Both units can be effective against Medevacs, but they excel in different ways.
Here are some factors to consider when deciding between Phoenix and Corsair units against Medevacs:
Cost: Phoenix units are more expensive to produce than Corsair units, so you may want to build Corsairs if you are trying to save resources.
Anti-air capabilities: Phoenix units are stronger against air units in general, and are particularly effective against Medevacs thanks to their Graviton Beam ability, which can lift the Medevac into the air and make it vulnerable to attack. Corsair units are weaker against air units and do not have a specific ability that targets Medevacs.
Detect: Corsair units have the Detect ability, which allows them to reveal cloaked or burrowed units. This can be useful for detecting and eliminating enemy Medevacs that are attempting to sneak up on your army.
Ultimately, the best choice will depend on your overall unit composition, the resources you have available, and your strategy for dealing with enemy Medevacs. It may be useful to have a mix of both Phoenix and Corsair units in your army to cover different bases.
Bonus points:
Find every errors or Waldo.
If you want to try, I suggest you ask it "What is/How to counter Zergling?". I had many gems like : use AoE like Ghost EMP; use faster units that can attack before getting in range, such as Vultures or Zealots; Some units are specifically designed to counter Zerglings, such as the Terran Siege Tank or the Protoss Dark Templar. So what do you think, will AI outpace humanity in strategy video game soon, or is Skynet only playing the fool? AI with neural networks is bound to fail by design, but that’s mainly my opinion. Any of those AI is dumb in essence and trying to combine boxes after boxes trying to mimic the brain is just a pointless waste of time.
I'm not saying you are wrong necessarily, but I do think this is a mischaracterization of what neural networks are. The word neuron is just about inspiration from the brain -- in reality the structure has no relationship to human brains or actual neurons.
Neural networks are just a type of mathematical function that take an input and iteratively apply a matrix multiplication (sending it into the next layer) followed by a non-linear transformation (called the activation). The reason they are able to do a lot of tasks is that they have billions of parameters that can be tuned to optimize for the desired task (given enough data).
|
France12793 Posts
On December 21 2022 09:01 angry_maia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2022 01:16 Poopi wrote:On December 20 2022 15:29 varsovie wrote:We all had a formative period when we were not sure how to resolve a starcraft problem, that period usually last until your last game. ;-) Some of us go find their answers by asking other players, be it a friend, a professional coach or simply the strategy section of this forum. Other are more autodidact and read/watch guids or simply plow through until they find their answer. Personally I prefer to rant about the balance and OP units and the bad ping and carpal tunnels and Mars in opposition. . . Usualy someone not familiar with Starcraft or RTS will not be a good source if you are looking for some hints. Anyone remembers the Starcraft novels, where they build Goliaths to defend agaisnt Zerglings? Well do not base your strategy on those ignoramus! What about AI then? And I do not mean copy the in-game AI builds! AI are very good at solving problems, just give 'em all the data and let modern neural networks do their magic. Even older AI weren't to take lightly, anyone remembers why the extractor trick became a thing? https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/160231-zerg-build-order-optimizerhttp://lbrandy.com/blog/2010/11/using-genetic-algorithms-to-find-starcraft-2-build-orders/There is a lot of AI developments around Starcraft, both to play it (since Blizzard released the framework for BW there is AI tournament), but also to predict or analyse it and the games. But what about an AI that "knows" Starcraft but is not optimised for it or to give players good advices? Modern conversational AI are impressive, but notoriously inaccurate. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ai-platforms-like-chatgpt-are-easy-to-use-but-also-potentially-dangerous/Which is why I had some fun with it when I realised that chatGPT does have (kinda) Starcraft in its database, and I started to probe its knowledge. Here is a gem I got from it, please feel free to share other AI tips that are hilarious, either from chatGPT or other, you can also share human crazy suggestions that were given to you seriously (a la : the trick is to max out on battlecruisers as fast as possible). https://chat.openai.com/chat
Question :
Should I build phoenix or corsair against medevac?
Answer :
In the context of the strategy game Starcraft, the decision to build Phoenix or Corsair units against Medevac units will depend on the specific circumstances of the game and your overall strategy. Both units can be effective against Medevacs, but they excel in different ways.
Here are some factors to consider when deciding between Phoenix and Corsair units against Medevacs:
Cost: Phoenix units are more expensive to produce than Corsair units, so you may want to build Corsairs if you are trying to save resources.
Anti-air capabilities: Phoenix units are stronger against air units in general, and are particularly effective against Medevacs thanks to their Graviton Beam ability, which can lift the Medevac into the air and make it vulnerable to attack. Corsair units are weaker against air units and do not have a specific ability that targets Medevacs.
Detect: Corsair units have the Detect ability, which allows them to reveal cloaked or burrowed units. This can be useful for detecting and eliminating enemy Medevacs that are attempting to sneak up on your army.
Ultimately, the best choice will depend on your overall unit composition, the resources you have available, and your strategy for dealing with enemy Medevacs. It may be useful to have a mix of both Phoenix and Corsair units in your army to cover different bases.
Bonus points:
Find every errors or Waldo.
If you want to try, I suggest you ask it "What is/How to counter Zergling?". I had many gems like : use AoE like Ghost EMP; use faster units that can attack before getting in range, such as Vultures or Zealots; Some units are specifically designed to counter Zerglings, such as the Terran Siege Tank or the Protoss Dark Templar. So what do you think, will AI outpace humanity in strategy video game soon, or is Skynet only playing the fool? AI with neural networks is bound to fail by design, but that’s mainly my opinion. Any of those AI is dumb in essence and trying to combine boxes after boxes trying to mimic the brain is just a pointless waste of time. I'm not saying you are wrong necessarily, but I do think this is a mischaracterization of what neural networks are. The word neuron is just about inspiration from the brain -- in reality the structure has no relationship to human brains or actual neurons. Neural networks are just a type of mathematical function that take an input and iteratively apply a matrix multiplication (sending it into the next layer) followed by a non-linear transformation (called the activation). The reason they are able to do a lot of tasks is that they have billions of parameters that can be tuned to optimize for the desired task (given enough data).
Was mainly answering to « So what do you think, will AI outpace humanity in strategy video game soon, or is Skynet only playing the fool?« -> AI can’t outpace human in any field if it’s NN AI.
AlphaStar was more of a marketing prowess than a real advance in the field, imho
|
Also, one does not need to accurately mimic the brain to achieve very useful performance on a wide variety of tasks. While neural nets get applied to a very wide variety of problems and get criticised (often fairly) as non-interpretable black boxes, there are also plenty of "grunt-work" tasks that they perform exceptionally, and we hardly care about interpreting how they achieve their results. Handwriting recognition being the classic example.
Getting back on topic, I was reading along doing my usual "damn, chatGPT is pretty scary even if it's clearly winging it here" thing, until I got to the bit about lifting up medevacs with graviton beam. Cackled out loud.
|
On December 21 2022 09:17 Turbovolver wrote:
Getting back on topic, I was reading along doing my usual "damn, chatGPT is pretty scary even if it's clearly winging it here" thing, until I got to the bit about lifting up medevacs with graviton beam. Cackled out loud.
To be honest it is pretty entertaining to use when one asks the bot to be creative. I've asked it for example to rewrite the Starcraft plot in the style of Sir Bacon with a romantic twist and characters from Dickens novels, one book per race. I also asked for a Haiku (it doesn't follow Haiku rules very well) on each race that were actually decent reads, well if you don't mind "the Zerg Zeratul". (It rhymes!)
In fairness to the devs of this Bot, their objective is not to trick people into believing it is a human or accurate, the Bot itself repeats it and would not for example give any medical advice.
One big limitation of neurals networks in my opinion, and why the term "neural" is missleading, is that the node path is always linear, it sends data from one set of nodes to the next, and no matter how wide or deep you make that process or what activation value or post-processing feedback you use, a real brain works with multiple specialised clumps of neurons [ganglions) to treat data, and schematically it would look more like a spider web (with more interconnections) with neurons able to activate or inhibate other neurons (or node) and to feed back data in a retraction loop dynamically.
What it does kinda well as a system is the "ability to learn" via different methods, which is why with enough trial errors and computing time it can become quite adept at things like recognising patterns, we found some previously unknown predictors for illness, it can also for example recognise cancerous cells in a sample, with a very god accuracy, and while it doesn't replace doctors to diagnose the sample, it is used to preprocess them (so abnormal samples get checked in priority) or double check, so if the human and the (trained) AI disagree we can automatically send the sample to get a second human opinion. In the end even if very complicated and dynamic, if you ask a neural network to sort data it only applies a f(x).
But those real world and functioning applications of AI and current development for example in big data are the few finished produces and have very specific tasks, your deep fake AI won't be able to improve a traffic grid for example. And I am not even going into moral issues like "racist criminal behavior predictor AI", I mean of course if you have a black population that has historically higher crime rate than the white (because of poverty for example) AND you tell the AI the skin color of you data sample the AI WILL use that correlation. Worse, it is one example where traditional actuarial/statistical tools with few criteria (employability status or reoffending for example) got about the SAME predictability...
As for Starcraft, I do not think we will see an AI consistently beat a progammer soon, on top of partial information and dynamic strategies, it would need to process them very fast, no 15 minutes between Chess moves. But I do think it could do a better job that current AI, for example a neural network could analyse a batch of game and borrow successful builds that follows the META and patches instead of having (bad) prebuilt ones, the actual macro (build build build) can be very near perfect without being to harsh on computing ressources (or plug it with the cheat that tells you when to build workers :-P) and some units could be used more effectivly (perfect splits). Seriously it is a shame that the current hardest AI would barely qualify in silver league.
Maybe Starcraft AI could get advices from chatGPT...
What would Tychus think of beer?
It is difficult to say exactly what Tychus, a fictional character in the Starcraft universe, would think of beer specifically. However, based on his personality as depicted in the games and other media, it is possible that Tychus would enjoy beer and other forms of alcohol. Tychus is portrayed as a tough and rugged individual with a no-nonsense attitude, and it is not uncommon for characters with these types of personalities to enjoy a drink or two. However, it is important to note that this is purely speculative and there is no concrete information about Tychus's thoughts or feelings on the subject of beer.
|
It's quite interesting, most of starcraft isn't being recorded in writings since the early days. We have lots of battle report written in the 2000 era not after that when people had access to things like youtube. So knowing that maybe this is a good proof of where it limits. Next frontier maybe the chatbot scrapes the video content and index them, that could be very interesting.
|
On December 21 2022 15:32 varsovie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2022 09:17 Turbovolver wrote:
Getting back on topic, I was reading along doing my usual "damn, chatGPT is pretty scary even if it's clearly winging it here" thing, until I got to the bit about lifting up medevacs with graviton beam. Cackled out loud. To be honest it is pretty entertaining to use when one asks the bot to be creative. I've asked it for example to rewrite the Starcraft plot in the style of Sir Bacon with a romantic twist and characters from Dickens novels, one book per race. I also asked for a Haiku (it doesn't follow Haiku rules very well) on each race that were actually decent reads, well if you don't mind "the Zerg Zeratul". (It rhymes!) In fairness to the devs of this Bot, their objective is not to trick people into believing it is a human or accurate, the Bot itself repeats it and would not for example give any medical advice. One big limitation of neurals networks in my opinion, and why the term "neural" is missleading, is that the node path is always linear, it sends data from one set of nodes to the next, and no matter how wide or deep you make that process or what activation value or post-processing feedback you use, a real brain works with multiple specialised clumps of neurons [ganglions) to treat data, and schematically it would look more like a spider web (with more interconnections) with neurons able to activate or inhibate other neurons (or node) and to feed back data in a retraction loop dynamically. What it does kinda well as a system is the "ability to learn" via different methods, which is why with enough trial errors and computing time it can become quite adept at things like recognising patterns, we found some previously unknown predictors for illness, it can also for example recognise cancerous cells in a sample, with a very god accuracy, and while it doesn't replace doctors to diagnose the sample, it is used to preprocess them (so abnormal samples get checked in priority) or double check, so if the human and the (trained) AI disagree we can automatically send the sample to get a second human opinion. In the end even if very complicated and dynamic, if you ask a neural network to sort data it only applies a f(x). But those real world and functioning applications of AI and current development for example in big data are the few finished produces and have very specific tasks, your deep fake AI won't be able to improve a traffic grid for example. And I am not even going into moral issues like "racist criminal behavior predictor AI", I mean of course if you have a black population that has historically higher crime rate than the white (because of poverty for example) AND you tell the AI the skin color of you data sample the AI WILL use that correlation. Worse, it is one example where traditional actuarial/statistical tools with few criteria (employability status or reoffending for example) got about the SAME predictability... As for Starcraft, I do not think we will see an AI consistently beat a progammer soon, on top of partial information and dynamic strategies, it would need to process them very fast, no 15 minutes between Chess moves. But I do think it could do a better job that current AI, for example a neural network could analyse a batch of game and borrow successful builds that follows the META and patches instead of having (bad) prebuilt ones, the actual macro (build build build) can be very near perfect without being to harsh on computing ressources (or plug it with the cheat that tells you when to build workers :-P) and some units could be used more effectivly (perfect splits). Seriously it is a shame that the current hardest AI would barely qualify in silver league. Maybe Starcraft AI could get advices from chatGPT... Show nested quote +
What would Tychus think of beer?
It is difficult to say exactly what Tychus, a fictional character in the Starcraft universe, would think of beer specifically. However, based on his personality as depicted in the games and other media, it is possible that Tychus would enjoy beer and other forms of alcohol. Tychus is portrayed as a tough and rugged individual with a no-nonsense attitude, and it is not uncommon for characters with these types of personalities to enjoy a drink or two. However, it is important to note that this is purely speculative and there is no concrete information about Tychus's thoughts or feelings on the subject of beer.
It's actually interesting how you tried to use the bot. I, for one, tend to use it for learning. And its paraphrasing abilities are quite useful for a college student.
|
I always like to remind people that if you want to experience GPT without the limitations of GPTChat you can instead use GPT Playground which is completely unrestricted in what it is capable of saying. GPT Playground let's you give the AI whatever personality you want.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Nc5ZP.png)
