EPT[TSL 9] - Serral wins TSL9 - Page 3
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outscar
2832 Posts
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On September 06 2022 05:39 Durnuu wrote: So why isn't Rogue the GOAT according to your criteria? I already mentioned Rogue and Serral are the clear top 2 for me. I wouldn’t disagree with either choices | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15919 Posts
On September 06 2022 03:31 MockHamill wrote: Flash is not the greatest RTS player. He was the best in BW but in SC2 he was mid-tier, not even near the best players. So he had to go back to BW in order to compete. So? So if Serral switched to AoE at one point and became a very good player but not a dominant one that would also invalidate his sc2 achievements by your logic? That's complete bullshit, Flash won premier tournaments in 2 different RTS games, that's a plus and not a minus compared to players who only won in one game. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15919 Posts
On September 06 2022 05:29 TossHeroes wrote: Flash is the goat BW hands down and it’s not even close Goat RTS of all time? Nah not even close There is a big difference between competitive and difficult BW is not the most difficult RTS ( most popular? Sure) Difficulty doesn't really mean anything when playing against other human players because the game will always be as difficult as the player you're playing against. In terms of competitiveness though... wooow, the BW scene in 2008-2012 was so much more competitive than the sc2 scene today it's not even funny | ||
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tommey.liang
United States362 Posts
Sad that Clem made another early exit for the tournament. Solar was dominant and showed flashes of brilliance; good job to ShowTime for making it that far as well. Could have been a different outcome if Reynor didn't play Protoss in that first game vs. Serral, but ah well. Also Twitch chat was going bonkers over the "balloon trophy" and Serral taking a while to cut the cake. Wasn't a fan of the joke balloon trophy- with all of the sponsors such as Shopify, Secretlab, etc. you would think there would have been a nicer-looking and permanent trophy lolol. Also wonder how hard the cake truly was. Excited tor TSL 10 maybe in 2023. Would like for Clem to make a deeper run. Also MaxPax needs to make an in-person appearance at some point. Edit: That game four of Serral-ShowTime is definitely one of the best games of 2022; but definitely one of the best series-ending games for sure. That 0-4 mark truly doesn't explain the whole story of how close some of those games were. | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
On September 05 2022 20:45 goldensail wrote: a-moving endless waves of ling bane until Terran is overwhelmed...is this how this game is supposed to be interesting? and zergs will continue to keep a straight face and say the game is balanced. I absolutely feel you. I have always felt like saying that PvZ is not being an easy matchup is not just a bit of an understatement - both in bw and sc2. Due to all my friends playing protoss in our team games in sc2, I switched to terran and TvZ always felt "a bit hard" as well. However, I simply cannot deny that Serral often seems like he is on a whole other level of play in his games. There is a reason why Serral is at the top of sc2 earnings. There is a reason why he is often referred to as the sc2 goat. And there is a reason why he is able to dominate Maru after Maru easily beat decent zergs such as Solar, Ragnarok and Lambo, and advanced over the perpetual title contenteder that is Reynor. When Serral keeps on winning top level tournaments; when there are only a handful of other zerg top level contenders, and when Serral manages to distinguish himself from them, his domination cannot be simply attributed to some possibly existing inbalance. Serral feels like and automaton that is simply in a league of his own. | ||
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luxon
United States111 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4906 Posts
On September 06 2022 12:08 luxon wrote: wtf why were spoilers posted immediately after the event ended, they usually wait a week... As a rule of thumb, do not come to a starcraft esport news site if you don't want to be spoiled about the results of a tournament. Everyone does that, why couldn't you? | ||
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youaremysin
119 Posts
Best argument for goat is that no Serral fan is ever stressed about him losing whereas Maru's fan are always but clenched. I'm a bit sad cause for some time I thought Clem could take over the torch and become the future of terran but we've yet to see another T excel in all categories | ||
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t2azor
32 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On September 06 2022 12:08 luxon wrote: wtf why were spoilers posted immediately after the event ended, they usually wait a week... ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/20k1nqJ.png) (and then press F5) | ||
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jack_less
77 Posts
On September 05 2022 23:08 sirokop wrote: A race with superior economy should not have units as versatile and cost-effective as the current state of queens (transfuse), banelings, vipers (abduct, parasitic bomb), and swarmhosts (infinite spawning units), it is an obvious major balance design flaw. i would agree. but there against speaks the Zerg has no real great superior ecco. therefore zerg needs cost-efficient units. Toss is mostly on par with Zerg ecco. Terran possibly ecco diff, but 1. Terran has the most efficient units 2. Mule therefore equal on in ecco ... | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3420 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
The 1 map and map veto advantage for the upper bracket winner is also a bit of a hype killer. People want bo7 finals. If the UB player goes up 2-1 in games they've probably already won which doesn't seem great. Having a 1 map advantage is insane but having the veto and taking away the best map for your opponent is ridiculous. You may as well not have double elimination in that case. | ||
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Tommy131313
Germany153 Posts
On September 06 2022 21:35 Fango wrote: Maru didn't play as well as normal in this series. It's a shame that one not efficient hold essentially spells death in the current ZvT meta while zerg gets several attempts at breaking terran, but oh well. The 1 map and map veto advantage for the upper bracket winner is also a bit of a hype killer. People want bo7 finals. If the UB player goes up 2-1 in games they've probably already won which doesn't seem great. Having a 1 map advantage is insane but having the veto and taking away the best map for your opponent is ridiculous. You may as well not have double elimination in that case. Afaik there is no vetoing as you propose. Both players choose maps - and the least liked for both won't be played because of UB +1 map advantage. Sounds quite fair to me. | ||
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Tommy131313
Germany153 Posts
On September 06 2022 20:01 True_Spike wrote: All it takes to balance the game is make creep tumors have 0 vision. Ok, then the queen should get a "vision" spell, that would be the equivalent to terran scouting option. But then, why should we have a balancing between different races/abilities at all? Wouldn't it be most fair, if it was mirror matchups all day long? Alas, maybe not too interesting matches then... | ||
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Tommy131313
Germany153 Posts
"opponent's race is broken" "tournament wasn't important enough for Koreans" "opponents win doesn't count, if he has never won a GSL" "in previous times competition/quality of game was so much higher (...the good old times...)" Did I forget something?  | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15919 Posts
On September 06 2022 22:06 Tommy131313 wrote: Always entertaining to read the comments when a korean player has lost the final to a European (that is normally Serral or Reynor...). "opponent's race is broken" "tournament wasn't important enough for Koreans" "opponents win doesn't count, if he has never won a GSL" "in previous times competition/quality of game was so much higher (...the good old times...)" Did I forget something? First point is true but that's always the case when a Zerg wins a tournament. 2nd and 3rd point you're just making up as I haven't seen it anywhere and 4th point I haven't read here after the finals but is objectively true | ||
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dysenterymd
1199 Posts
On September 06 2022 21:35 Fango wrote: Maru didn't play as well as normal in this series. It's a shame that one not efficient hold essentially spells death in the current ZvT meta while zerg gets several attempts at breaking terran, but oh well. The 1 map and map veto advantage for the upper bracket winner is also a bit of a hype killer. People want bo7 finals. If the UB player goes up 2-1 in games they've probably already won which doesn't seem great. Having a 1 map advantage is insane but having the veto and taking away the best map for your opponent is ridiculous. You may as well not have double elimination in that case. Agreed, the bo5 into bo3 if the UB player loses format is a lot better. It makes more sense (every player is allowed to lose one series) and feels like much less of a mountain to climb. Even if the result wouldn't have been any different this time, coming back from 1-2 and then winning a fresh bo3 feels a lot more doable than coming back from 1-3. | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3420 Posts
On September 06 2022 21:57 Tommy131313 wrote: Ok, then the queen should get a "vision" spell, that would be the equivalent to terran scouting option. But then, why should we have a balancing between different races/abilities at all? Wouldn't it be most fair, if it was mirror matchups all day long? Alas, maybe not too interesting matches then... And that's exactly why zerg has overlords  Zerg vision on creep (coupled with creep's speed bonus) is what makes it much easier to always be prepared / in the right position for any attack mid to late game without risking an actual unit (or any other real trade-off, really) for that piece of intel. It also makes it easier to spread creep itself (since, again, you don't need a unit there to give vision). But I digress... Serral is obviously the best player right now anyways. I just don't find it coincidental, however, that most other top contenders happen to be zerg, too. | ||
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