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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On September 05 2022 23:58 Spirral wrote: Maybe he is the second best sc2 player after all? Cannot say for Serral either before 2018. Maru is freaking dominant. One or two year lackluster results didn't determine the whole career achievements. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On September 06 2022 00:28 swarminfestor wrote: Cannot say for Serral either before 2018. Maru is freaking dominant. One or two year lackluster results didn't determine the whole career achievements. Using that argument. Maru has an average career if you take out his 2018 results. There are 10+ Korean players that has a better achievement than him The Goat argument is between Rogue and Serral (wouldn’t disagree too much with either choices. Maru is a distance 3rd unless he can win one world championship to close the gap I would even put Dark comfortably over Maru if he manage to win another GSL or world championship | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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JJH777
United States4415 Posts
On September 06 2022 00:40 TossHeroes wrote: Using that argument. Maru has an average career if you take out his 2018 results. There are 10+ Korean players that has a better achievement than him The Goat argument is between Rogue and Serral (wouldn’t disagree too much with either choices. Maru is a distance 3rd unless he can win one world championship to close the gap I would even put Dark comfortably over Maru if he manage to win another GSL or world championship Maru without 2018 still has 3 starleagues a bunch of small stuff like season finals/last chance/super tournament/kob/asus and is the best proleague player of all time. There are no where near 10 Koreans that beat that resume. | ||
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pajen007
7 Posts
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pajen007
7 Posts
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pajen007
7 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
He is even ranked 29 in AOE4 for team games, even though he just play AOE4 on the side for fun. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4958 Posts
On September 06 2022 01:56 MockHamill wrote: Serral is the greatest RTS player of all time. I do not think anyone has dominated the Aligulac rating for this long and he has won the most prize money of any SC2 player. He is even ranked 29 in AOE4 for team games, even though he just play AOE4 on the side for fun. Scratch that, I have also seen him DESTROY people at 5v5 DOTA2, he is the personification of the ultimate gaming gamer! | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16021 Posts
On September 06 2022 00:40 TossHeroes wrote: Using that argument. Maru has an average career if you take out his 2018 results. There are 10+ Korean players that has a better achievement than him The Goat argument is between Rogue and Serral (wouldn’t disagree too much with either choices. Maru is a distance 3rd unless he can win one world championship to close the gap I would even put Dark comfortably over Maru if he manage to win another GSL or world championship Nah the Goat argument is between Rogue and Maru. Serral still doesn't have enough high-tier tournament wins.... ... I can also play this game. Just accept this is down to subjective opinion and there is no 'objective Goat' atm. On September 06 2022 01:56 MockHamill wrote: Serral is the greatest RTS player of all time. I do not think anyone has dominated the Aligulac rating for this long and he has won the most prize money of any SC2 player. He is even ranked 29 in AOE4 for team games, even though he just play AOE4 on the side for fun. Except for this. This is not down to subjective opinion because the RTS Goat is Flash and it isn't remotely close | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
On September 06 2022 02:28 Charoisaur wrote: Nah the Goat argument is between Rogue and Maru. Serral still doesn't have enough high-tier tournament wins.... ... I can also play this game. Just accept this is down to subjective opinion and there is no 'objective Goat' atm. Except for this. This is not down to subjective opinion because the RTS Goat is Flash and it isn't remotely close Nah, Flash played SC2 for 4 years and only won a single non-GSL/World Championship premier tournament. Never even made it to the playoffs in GSL. | ||
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angry_maia
327 Posts
On September 06 2022 02:46 argonautdice wrote: Nah, Flash played SC2 for 4 years and only won a single non-GSL/World Championship premier tournament. Never even made it to the playoffs in GSL. Flash's dominance in SC1 instantly wins him GOAT title for RTS. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of pro starcraft players (1 or 2) would agree. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
He was the best in BW but in SC2 he was mid-tier, not even near the best players. So he had to go back to BW in order to compete. | ||
Poopi
France12906 Posts
On September 06 2022 03:31 MockHamill wrote: Flash is not the greatest RTS player. He was the best in BW but in SC2 he was mid-tier, not even near the best players. So he had to go back to BW in order to compete. BW was still the most competitive RTS of all time and being the undisputed GOAT there qualifies you as RTS GOAT. I did not witness / doesn’t watch much BW so for me Maru has been the most impressive RTS player of all time but I only watched sc2 and a bit of Warcraft 3. One has to wonder though, if younger promising players that went into sc2 and stayed in it like INno / Zest would have kept playing BW (well all of kespa), would they have surpassed Flash? Because prime INno during HotS was a scary monster | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On September 06 2022 01:11 JJH777 wrote: Maru without 2018 still has 3 starleagues a bunch of small stuff like season finals/last chance/super tournament/kob/asus and is the best proleague player of all time. There are no where near 10 Koreans that beat that resume. Mvp, inno. Mc, nestea, taeja, life , stats, classic, dear, rain, dark , rogue etc. Maru is easily outside of Top 10 without his 2018 accomplishment Most of them are all GSL winners during the golden era or the “hardest” trophy to win (like all the Korean elitist like to say) Maru was basically a gatekeeper during that time Not the water down GSLs Maru won Dear and classic GSL > Maru ssl. (Am I doing it right guys? Or is that rule only for Mary’s GSL?) | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
On September 06 2022 05:05 TossHeroes wrote: Mvp, inno. Mc, nestea, taeja, life , stats, classic, dear, rain, dark , rogue etc. Maru is easily outside of Top 10 without his 2018 accomplishment Most of them are all GSL winners during the golden era or the “hardest” trophy to win (like all the Korean elitist like to say) Maru was basically a gatekeeper during that time Not the water down GSLs Maru won Dear and classic GSL > Maru ssl. (Am I doing it right guys? Or is that rule only for Mary’s GSL?) Maru still had a bunch of Ro4s and Ro8s during that era, and more than any other player except perhaps INnoVation. Yes, the GSLs were harder back then, which is why the bunch of Ro4s and Ro8s makes up for the lack of a GSL win. And SSL is worth just as much as a GSL, it's the exact same pool of player except it started at Ro16. And his OSL win which replaced GSL that season. And putting Taeja on that list... Jesus  Why am I answering seriously to a troll, how low have I fallen. I'm not even a Maru fan | ||
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JJH777
United States4415 Posts
On September 06 2022 05:05 TossHeroes wrote: Mvp, inno. Mc, nestea, taeja, life , stats, classic, dear, rain, dark , rogue etc. Maru is easily outside of Top 10 without his 2018 accomplishment Most of them are all GSL winners during the golden era or the “hardest” trophy to win (like all the Korean elitist like to say) Maru was basically a gatekeeper during that time Not the water down GSLs Maru won Dear and classic GSL > Maru ssl. (Am I doing it right guys? Or is that rule only for Mary’s GSL?) Maru won OSL in 2013 and SSL in 2015 both during the hardest era. That's also when he was the best proleague player and regularly the last Terran standing in GSL during some seasons that were rather atrocious for Terran. He then won a GSL in 2019 got 3 more 2nd places and won a bunch of smaller stuff I already mentioned in the last couple years. MC/Nestea/Taeja/CLassic/Dear/Rain are all no where near Maru in overall accomplishment even completely disregarding everything he did in 2018. That leaves Life/Dark/Rogue/Mvp/Inno. There is no meaningful distinction in terms of difficulty to win between OSL/SSL and GSL. They had similar prize pools (bit less for SSL but only because it didn't pay 17-32nd which doesn't make a tournament harder to win) and near identical formats and player pools. The OSL he won was a straight up GSL replacement for that season anyways. It's especially funny that you are arguing this while simultaneously arguing Serral is the goat. You're basically arguing all the stuff Maru won the last year or two is worthless if you really think those players have more accomplishments than him. If you think Last Chance/Season Finals/KOB are worthless then more than half of Serral's trophies are worthless including this TSL. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On September 06 2022 04:29 Poopi wrote: BW was still the most competitive RTS of all time and being the undisputed GOAT there qualifies you as RTS GOAT. I did not witness / doesn’t watch much BW so for me Maru has been the most impressive RTS player of all time but I only watched sc2 and a bit of Warcraft 3. One has to wonder though, if younger promising players that went into sc2 and stayed in it like INno / Zest would have kept playing BW (well all of kespa), would they have surpassed Flash? Because prime INno during HotS was a scary monster Flash is the goat BW hands down and it’s not even close Goat RTS of all time? Nah not even close There is a big difference between competitive and difficult BW is not the most difficult RTS ( most popular? Sure) | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On September 06 2022 05:27 JJH777 wrote: Maru won OSL in 2013 and SSL in 2015 both during the hardest era. That's also when he was the best proleague player and regularly the last Terran standing in GSL during some seasons that were rather atrocious for Terran. He then won a GSL in 2019 got 3 more 2nd places and won a bunch of smaller stuff I already mentioned in the last couple years. MC/Nestea/Taeja/CLassic/Dear/Rain are all no where near Maru in overall accomplishment even completely disregarding everything he did in 2018. That leaves Life/Dark/Rogue/Mvp/Inno. There is no meaningful distinction in terms of difficulty to win between OSL/SSL and GSL. They had similar prize pools (bit less for SSL but only because it didn't pay 17-32nd which doesn't make a tournament harder to win) and near identical formats and player pools. The OSL he won was a straight up GSL replacement for that season anyways. It's especially funny that you are arguing this while simultaneously arguing Serral is the goat. You're basically arguing all the stuff Maru won the last year or two is worthless if you really think those players have more accomplishments than him. If you think Last Chance/Season Finals/KOB are worthless then more than half of Serral's trophies are worthless including this TSL. Serral has two world championships the hardest and most prestige. A dream and ultimate goal for all sc2 players Serral went, conquer, and left with 2 GSL’s. Both path to victory were harder than any of Maru’s GSL Whichever Serral IS the big dog. Whichever tournament he attends instantly becomes S tier At the end of day Goat is subjective. Someone can have Naniwa as Goat (but who really cares at the end of the day) | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
On September 06 2022 05:35 TossHeroes wrote: Serral has two world championships the hardest and most prestige. A dream and ultimate goal for all sc2 players Serral went, conquer, and left with 2 GSL’s. Both path to victory were harder than any of Maru’s GSL Whichever Serral IS the big dog. Whichever tournament he attends instantly becomes S tier So why isn't Rogue the GOAT according to your criteria? | ||
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