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How do you feel about rotating old maps back into the comp…

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TL.net Bot
Profile Joined June 2004
TL.net131 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-15 03:59:15
April 15 2022 03:58 GMT
#1
Discussion thread for front page poll: "How do you feel about rotating old maps back into the competitive map pool?"
Chris_Havoc
Profile Joined August 2016
United States600 Posts
April 15 2022 04:38 GMT
#2
I'm fine with it. In fact I'd like rotating back in 1 old map each from both Legacy of the Void & Heart of the Swarm each season, and add 3 all-new maps every season.
Owner of the SC2 Esports Anthology channel on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SC2EsportsAnthology
shadow4723
Profile Joined October 2018
87 Posts
April 15 2022 05:09 GMT
#3
Negative for 2 reasons:
1. depending on which old maps are meant (eg most Wings maps), it would not be competitively viable
2. there's so many great maps from the map contest that don't make it into the map pool. let's give those creators some spotlight!
StasisField
Profile Joined August 2013
United States1086 Posts
April 15 2022 05:22 GMT
#4
Honestly, old maps get pretty stale and we have so many exciting, new maps to try that never see pro play, unfortunately. There's no need to rotate in old maps when we have such a talented, passionate map-making community that churns out top quality maps regularly.
What do you mean Immortals can't shoot up?
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
April 15 2022 06:56 GMT
#5
If it keeps maps like Pride of Altaris out of the rotation then I consider it a net positive.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
depressed1
Profile Blog Joined May 2021
51 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-15 07:23:32
April 15 2022 07:21 GMT
#6
This Is gonna suck.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
depressed_marauder (yt: DepressingStarcraft) done and gone.
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2577 Posts
April 15 2022 08:30 GMT
#7
What I would very much prefer is if the map pool were expanded a bit, rotated more frequentl, and more of the great stuff coming out of the community was included. I'd especially like to see more maps that don't look just like existing ones. I realize the current map designs have stabilized around a set of common features that are understood to result in relatively balanced matchups, and that's lovely, but it's gotten to the point where I can barely remember which map is which because they are all so similar.
The frumious Bandersnatch
buzz_bender
Profile Joined August 2019
445 Posts
April 15 2022 08:33 GMT
#8
Depends on the map. If say, rotate back the best maps in the previous seasons, absolutely. Like Golden Wall, Eternal Empire etc.

But only maps from LotV, the game has changed too much for HotS maps to come back.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3374 Posts
April 15 2022 13:49 GMT
#9
just wanna see more movement in map pool, if that means we need old maps, then so be it.
Increasing the map pool would also help keeping the game fresh. This imo is more important than shaking up with balance changes, just for the sake of shaking things up.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Drahkn
Profile Joined June 2021
191 Posts
April 15 2022 13:51 GMT
#10
but what will zergs do without the free maphack over protoss and terran wall inns, and terrans without handicap ramps catered for their single reaper on every map? can protoss get a free shade into your base map? thx
Buster Nut
Profile Joined January 2021
United Kingdom4 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-15 17:30:19
April 15 2022 17:28 GMT
#11
Personally, I think Blizzard, before it drops the game completely should let the fans vote to pick out all the favorite maps of yesteryear. Have the best map makers tinker, and touch them up to fit LOTV. Then have them on rotation so you never know which map you're going to play, and it would be pretty hard to learn them all. In addition, add all the top map makers' maps in there too.

Even if there are 50 maps in the pool.

I would love it.
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-15 18:16:50
April 15 2022 18:16 GMT
#12
There is no lack of new maps, there's clearly a lack of efforts rotating the new maps in, and not just for 1v1. Look at these examples from the map pool for team games:

Emerald City - since 2018
Canyon of Tribulation - since 2018
Shipwrecked - since 2019

For whatever reason some old maps were actually rotated back in for team games, like Rooftop Terrace and Buried Caverns.

Let's give all the map makers out there a chance to get more maps in, not discourage them by rotating in old maps!
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
Judgement
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands152 Posts
April 15 2022 19:24 GMT
#13
Some older maps have provided amazing games during their rotation, so i think 1 or 2 maps per mappool in a season that are older can be fun.
However never ever again the Dreampool, where there were only old maps that just dont fit the current meta//evolution of the game
"What good fortune for goverments that the people do not think."
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
April 15 2022 23:20 GMT
#14
On April 16 2022 02:28 Buster Nut wrote:
Personally, I think Blizzard, before it drops the game completely should let the fans vote to pick out all the favorite maps of yesteryear. Have the best map makers tinker, and touch them up to fit LOTV. Then have them on rotation so you never know which map you're going to play, and it would be pretty hard to learn them all. In addition, add all the top map makers' maps in there too.

Even if there are 50 maps in the pool.

I would love it.

I'd be down for something like this, I'd really hate to see the game abandoned without warning and everyone's stuck forever with whatever 7 maps happen to be in the pool at the time.
vibeo gane,
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8304 Posts
April 15 2022 23:26 GMT
#15
People are making some great points here... Maps that didn't make the cut from past map contests is indeed a pretty good idea. Overall I think you probably could do a bit of both... But with that said it would make sense to prioritize new maps.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
v1p3r52
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand182 Posts
April 16 2022 00:25 GMT
#16
It would be funny to see GSL finals on scrap station
Buster Nut
Profile Joined January 2021
United Kingdom4 Posts
April 16 2022 01:05 GMT
#17
On April 16 2022 04:24 Judgement wrote:
Some older maps have provided amazing games during their rotation, so i think 1 or 2 maps per mappool in a season that are older can be fun.
However never ever again the Dreampool, where there were only old maps that just dont fit the current meta//evolution of the game


I've always found the seasons too long. Especially with the few maps available, and when only a few are rotated out.

I play random so don't veto, so I can't imagine how boring it would get if I used all my map vetoes.

Increase the map count or shorten the seasons is my choice.

As my comment above says, I'd be happy with 50+ maps on rotation, consisting of updated classic maps, and the top map makers maps.
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8003 Posts
April 16 2022 02:35 GMT
#18
if it's Shakuras Plateau, yes
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
Beelzebub1
Profile Joined May 2015
1004 Posts
April 16 2022 11:06 GMT
#19
Not good, most of the old but gold maps from yesteryear were already in their respective map pools for WAY too long as it is.

We need quicker map season rotations and a greater variety of maps. I really really like the TL map contests but it always feels like the most standard maps that just look the coolest win vs. which are the more balanced maps that produce better games.

This could be fixed by simply allowing more maps into the map pool and getting rid of certain ones quicker.
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
April 16 2022 19:48 GMT
#20
I would give anything to get maps that don't give zergs free complete scouts on your entrance at all times. Would make early game zvp much better.
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
April 17 2022 06:30 GMT
#21
King Sejong Station all over again! We need dream pool once again just like we did on 2017.
sunbeams are never made like me...
Legan
Profile Joined June 2017
Finland402 Posts
April 17 2022 08:21 GMT
#22
Did not we have TLMC#16 a couple of months ago? There should be plenty of maps available to use. Only way I could see this as positive if it was 7+2 old maps or something. Just going back to old maps would tell in my opinion that they have lost the work pipeline for handling new maps.
Creator of Gresvan, Tropical Sacrifice, Taitalika, and Golden Forge
washikie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States752 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-17 10:26:00
April 17 2022 10:24 GMT
#23
Look, there have been a lot of good maps but we already played on them and figured them out. I think it’s a lot better for the game to keep changing maps. It keeps things fresh and interesting.

With that said I do think we need smaller maps. The current pool features almost all large maps. It’s important imo that you get a different experience depending on the map. There are a few interesting large maps like hardwire but alot of the big maps play very similarly.

Also a lot of old maps are miserable to play on nowadays. Depends how far. Back you go but dream pool was awful for instance. I never want dream pool again.
"when life gives Hero lemons he makes carriers" -Artosis
ThunderJunk
Profile Joined December 2015
United States677 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-18 20:24:31
April 18 2022 20:22 GMT
#24
Bring back Jungle Basin!


Okay maybe not that but we need at least 1 really screwy map every season so deviants like me can make frustrating builds that only work on that specific map so I can beat players that are better than me.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25152 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-19 12:23:47
April 19 2022 12:23 GMT
#25
With a surplus of good maps from TLMCs never really used I’d much prefer to see those, although I wouldn’t be averse to seeing some classics
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TheCheapSkate
Profile Joined August 2011
Slovenia316 Posts
April 19 2022 13:52 GMT
#26
It's great having golden wall back in the map pool in GSL. One of the best maps ever made IMO.
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
2843 Posts
April 19 2022 14:20 GMT
#27
Don't like it. In fact, sc2 is sorely in need of some more interesting map design.
aka wilted_kale
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
April 19 2022 14:49 GMT
#28
Outside of some really great maps (to be fair, Golden Wall qualifies) - BAD.

I want to see new things, and rather have more maps to experiment with. We won't find more golden walls by just burning through old maps.
Sprog
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand83 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-19 21:30:42
April 19 2022 21:29 GMT
#29
On April 19 2022 23:20 RogerChillingworth wrote:
Don't like it. In fact, sc2 is sorely in need of some more interesting map design.


I really like the idea of having unbuildable/but passable terrain to encourage more standard play, I think this would change ladder play a lot.

Would be nice to have a larger map pool as some others have suggested, bigger map pool, more vetos. Not sure how possible it is in the current build of the game.

Completely fine with old maps coming back
Djentleman2414
Profile Joined August 2017
16 Posts
April 21 2022 09:32 GMT
#30
I chose somewhat positive, but that assumes a few things:
- Don't bring back unbalanced or "unfun" maps. What's "unfun" is obviously up for debate, but in general i mean any map that forces/heavily encourages the same play-pattern over and over again.
- Do it sparsely: 1 map per rotation is plenty if not to much
- Don't let them stay to long, we already got to see it enough

Under these conditions i think it could be very fun to bring back some fan-favourites into the map pool to celebrate outstanding maps from the past.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15929 Posts
April 21 2022 11:15 GMT
#31
I think certain maps are too good for them to never be on ladder again (e.g. KSS, Abyssal Reef, Golden Wall)
So definitely a 'YES' from me
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
DevilDriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany77 Posts
April 22 2022 08:25 GMT
#32
Similar to what others said, I think IF we bring in old maps again, then for a shorter period, otherwise it will become boring.
I think the map pools in BW are really cool, but I guess it's different in SC2.
ssg
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1770 Posts
April 22 2022 15:11 GMT
#33
I want to see another Ye Olde Map Tournament
necrosexy
Profile Joined March 2011
451 Posts
April 22 2022 20:07 GMT
#34
Daybreak!
Arghmyliver
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States1077 Posts
April 23 2022 13:34 GMT
#35
Maybe a couple old classics for one off events but to me this reads suspiciously like "we can't be bothered to vet new maps so how would you feel if instead we just recycled the same ones over and over."

As others have mentioned, the TLMC is already a thing, arguably even more of a thing after the recent appeal from map makers for better feedback. There's been maybe a couple contests since then, so we are still pending results for the most part on how effective this will be in terms of improving overall submission quality (potentially even MORE good maps).

Additionally, many have suggested in recent sob story . .
. errr . . . "discussion" threads (and I tend to agree, although perhaps not with plaintiff's methods) that map design can be a good way to tweak balance. It would probably be difficult to do this with old maps.

We don't need Blizzard to make new maps, we have a thriving community of map makers. Maps are basically a renewable resource at this point in a game that is kinda starved for resources in many areas. Why on Earth it would be better to recycle old maps regularly instead of tapping into that resource (which also, btw, encourages more engagement from the community) I have no idea.
Now witness their attempts to fly from tree to tree. Notice they do not so much fly as plummet.
Drfilip
Profile Joined March 2013
Sweden590 Posts
April 23 2022 16:33 GMT
#36
I am against using old maps out of convenience.
New maps are part of a cycle with progressive learning. Some players are better at adapting to new maps than others. That skill is something I like to see. As the maps are more figured out there are other skills displayed.
New maps are also good for making the game feel fresh, which is a very important aspect.

I voted slightly in favour since there are some old maps that can have a place in modern SC2. These are supposed to be an exception via deliberate consideration.
New maps are better to use.
Random Platinum EU
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
April 23 2022 20:03 GMT
#37
A must have. People whine about new maps when there's a switch with fantastic maps that also have a bunch of nostalgia with them.
Innovation vs Life on Daybreak was iconic, Maru vs any top Zerg would be too.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
BlackLilium
Profile Joined April 2011
Poland426 Posts
April 25 2022 06:30 GMT
#38
New map every week!
I would definitely play more often...
[MOD]Economy - Hot Mineral Harvesting
Aeceus
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom1278 Posts
April 25 2022 18:49 GMT
#39
Better than stagnation of the same maps for a year.
WeddingEpisode
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States356 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-25 23:17:00
April 25 2022 23:06 GMT
#40
Remember Blizzard tried this in 2014, it was a flop. I was immediately sorry that they did, and I felt ridiculous for repeatedly having brought it up lol. The maps just weren't as fun anymore.
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/467160-dreampool-old-ladder-maps-return-for-season-4
Still diamond
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15929 Posts
April 26 2022 14:29 GMT
#41
On April 26 2022 08:06 WeddingEpisode wrote:
Remember Blizzard tried this in 2014, it was a flop. I was immediately sorry that they did, and I felt ridiculous for repeatedly having brought it up lol. The maps just weren't as fun anymore.
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/467160-dreampool-old-ladder-maps-return-for-season-4

Well, I enjoyed playing on Daybreak again.

Nobody wants an old mappool again, but like 1 popular old map in the pool would be cool
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
MarlieChurphy
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States2063 Posts
June 07 2022 16:36 GMT
#42
Only if its ladder seasons 1 WoL maps, Steppes of War etc.
RIP SPOR 11/24/11 NEVAR FORGET
112StaminaX
Profile Joined June 2020
37 Posts
June 08 2022 15:42 GMT
#43
i think they tried it, its never as fun as you remember it. Game devs are right when they say, you think you want it but you actually dont.
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